GEOFF BENNETT: For more now on the fallout from# President Trump's call to nationalize elections## and his immigration crackdown, we turn tonight# to the analysis of Atkins Stohr and Parker.

That's Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion# writer and columnist at The Boston Globe,## and Kathleen Parker, a columnist with# The Washington Post.

David Brooks and## Jonathan Capehart are away this evening.

Good evening.

It's great to see you both.

KATHLEEN PARKER, The Washington Post:# Good evening.

Nice t.. GEOFF BENNETT: So President Trump is# openly talking about nationalizing voting,## something that is plainly unconstitutional.

He's# doing this months before the midterm elections.

Kimberly, do you hear this as bluster# or a deliberate attempt to undermine the## elections and then seed doubt about the# legitimacy of future election results?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR, The Boston Globe:# I think it's definitely the latter, Geoff.

We have seen Donald Trump since before his first# term, even before he won the election in 2016,## casting doubts and disparaging with# no -- with absolutely no evidence,## the U.S.

voting systems and claiming fraud,# either as a hedge before the election he may## think may go badly for him or as a way to# disparage the results after they happen.

That has been part and parcel.

And it's really# dangerous.

I mean, this call is not just a call## to nationalize elections, which, as you point out,# the Constitution makes very clear that elections## are handled, by and large, by states, with# the federal government playing a minimal role.

But I'm concerned about call -- not denying# that ICE will show up at election stations,## that the call for this increasing redistricting,## mid-decade redistricting in states in order to# try to game the system.

Elections are supposed## to be sacred in any functioning democracy.

And# that the president of the United States is the## one making the call to disparage them and# try to rig the system is really alarming.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kathleen, to Kimberly's point,# we have seen this from President Trump before.## How much this time feels more organized# and, because of that, more dangerous?

KATHLEEN PARKER: I agree.

It is more organized.

And everything he does in terms of,# he's trying to undermine confidence## and faith in the electoral process all# along.

And with this whole -- now he's## still clinging again to the 2020 -- we know# it was a fully regular election he lost.

And## he can't let it go because I think he's# taken a page from "Mein Kampf," frankly,## the saying that if you say -- tell a big lie often# enough and repeat it, then people will believe it.

And the theory was further refined by# the propaganda head in Nazi Germany,## Mr.

Joseph Goebbels.

And the idea is,# apparently, it's true that -- they would know,## I guess -- that people will believe a big lie# quicker than they will believe a small lie.

So Trump goes big with everything he does,# big beautiful bills, big beautiful lie.

And## I think he's just going to keep going# and going and trying to make people## lose confidence.

Maybe they stay# away from the polls.

Maybe they## get together and his MAGA troops will come# together and challenge the election results.

I think you're right that ICE will show up and# I think the activists and the MAGA troops, so to## speak, will be present at many polling places.

So# it's very dangerous, because where does that lead,## ultimately?

It gives Trump an opportunity to# say -- maybe it gives him an opportunity to## challenge the next election, whether it's the# midterms or the presidential election in 2026,## assuming he allows it to come -- to take place.

GEOFF BENNETT: On the matter of ICE potentially## at polling places, our White House correspondent,## Liz Landers, asked that question at a# White House press briefing this past week,## because it was Steve Bannon who floated it, and# the White House didn't rule it out.

Here's that.

LIZ LANDERS: Thank you, Karoline.

Steve Bannon recently said -- quot.. come November."

Is that something# that the president is considering?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press# Secretary: That's not something I## have ever heard the president .. LIZ LANDERS: So, you can guarantee# to be American public that ICE wi.. not be around polling locations# or voting locations in November?

KAROLINE LEAVITT: I can't guarantee# that an ICE agent won't be around a## polling location in November.

I mean, that's,# frankly, a very silly hypothetical question.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you can argue it's# not a hypothetical question.

It's not## a rhetorical question, because, in many ways,# this is a multifront strategy, legal pressure,## DOJ demands, raids at the Fulton County# election office.

How do you see it?

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: That's exactly right.# And we can use another historic analogy,## which is during Jim Crow, the fact# that police were often sent around## polling stations in order to discourage# people of color from casting votes,## even though the Constitution was amended# to specifically protect that right.

The law won't protect you if you don't# have government that is backing it up## and actually flouting it.

So all of this is from# playbooks from the darkest times in our history,## and they can't be ignored.

I'm concerned about# it, because I don't want people -- once people## lose faith in their elections, that's a big# pillar of democracy that falls in itself.

GEOFF BENNETT: On the matter of the president's# immigration agenda, we have some fresh polling## data.

Six in 10 Americans disapprove of the job# ICE is doing, while about three in 10 approve.

And## opinions about the agency and its actions are# sharply divided along political lines, as you## might imagine; 91 percent of Democrats, 66 percent# of independents register their disapproval.

Republicans, though, remain supportive with# 73 percent approving of the agency's work.

Kathleen, why is that?

Has ICE become an# identity issue, rather than a policy issue,## the way that they are carrying# out the president's agenda?

KATHLEEN PARKER: Well, I don't really know# exactly how to answer that, but I think that I'm## first surprised that that number of representative# Republicans are approving of what we're watching.

And I think the image of that little boy was# so powerful.

And I think Americans generally## saw that and thought, well, no, we can't# have that in this country.

That's not what## we do here.

And the image is powerful.

And I# think, when we look at the elections coming up,## the midterms, you're going to see a lot# of people turn out on the ICE issue,## whether it's -- I don't know what you meant# exactly by whether it's an identity question.

But I do think it's definitely a pivotal# voting issue that will have legs through## the midterms and possibly thereafter, depending# on how they change their behavior, if they do.

GEOFF BENNETT: And this is a# live issue on Capitol Hill,## because Democrats and Republicans right# now are debating how ICE can carry forward## with the president's immigration# approach as part of its funding.

And yet it appears Democrats have folded# on their demand that ICE agents not wear## masks.

Chuck Schumer said, well, they can# wear masks if it's an unusual circumstance.## And they're also not including in their demands# this notion of what we were talking about before,## that ICE doesn't show up on# Election Day at the polls.

This comes back to this issue why# Democrats aren't as tactically## ruthless on the things that they say they# care about as compared to Republicans.

KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: I# think that's exactly right.

And at this moment, when we're talking about# a partial sh.. now has been funded.

They did a good job of# carving out this issue so that they could hold## firm.

I think if Democrats do anything other than# completely hold the line on what they have seen,## the snatching up of men, women and children,# deporting them without full due process,## American citizens being targeted -- two American# citizens dead on the streets of Minneapolis.

If this is not the issue where Democrats can say,# no, we hold the line and we are not giving an## inch on this, not because it's politically right,# but because it's morally right, I just don't know## what it is that they're doing.

They should maybe# consider giving their jobs to someone who will.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you see it?

KATHLEEN PARKER: Well, I do think Republicans te.. But I think if the Democrats force the hand# and the government has to shut down partially,## it's going to send -- well, it'll make# Donald Trump very happy because he## will have chaos again.

And he's the# captain of chaos.

But so many other## agencies within the Homeland Security# Department will be affected, FEMA, TSA.

I mean, people are going to be stranded at# airports and, again, we will have all sorts of## travel issues.

And there's even other things.# The Coast Guard, I think, would be docked.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

Well, you mentioned airports.

I#want to squeeze in this last topic,## President Trump offering to unfreeze roughly# $16 billion in federal infrastructure funds## already appropriated for the Gateway Hudson# River tunnel project.

But this is only if,## according to the reporting, the Senate minority# leader, Chuck Schumer agrees to rename both## Washington Dulles International Airport and# New York's Penn Station after Donald Trump.

Kimberly, you have been shaking# your head left or right, no.

(LAUGHTER) KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: You.. we're talking about, the president is still so# concerned about his own vanity and pettiness,## that he probably can't stand the fact that DCA# is named after Reagan and he wants one too.

I mean, really, this is what# he's spending his time on.

KATHLEEN PARKER: Well, he# may actually deserve Dulles## Airport.

As we were talking about earlier... (LAUGHTER) KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: It is a terrible airport.

KATHLEEN PARKER: ... it's# not the .. KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: No.

KATHLEEN PARKER: B.. in childhood?

Can we just give him a# daily participation trophy, perhaps?

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: Kathl.. KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR: Thank you.