>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO END THE WAR IN THE BEST WAY TO END IT SPEEDILY.

>> BENJAMIN NETANYAHU DISCUSSES WAYS TO END GAZA.

WHY THIS COULD BE A ROAD TO PERPETUAL WAR.

THEN.

>> THE PATH TO PEACE FOR UKRAINE MUST BE DETERMINED TOGETHER AND ONLY TOGETHER WITH UKRAINE.

>> TRUMP AND PUTIN TO MEET TOGETHER IN ALASKA BUT IT UKRAINE IT SEEMS IS EXCLUDED.

IS THERE A POSSIBILITY.

>> AS TRUMP 'S IMMIGRATION CONTINUES, I SPEAK TO ONE MAN ABOUT HIS MISSION TO HELP THEM.

THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CUT OFF .

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AND WHAT WE DO NEXT.

I RAN INTO THAT OVER AND OVER.

>> AND AN APPLE BOMB AND LINDSAY WROTE DARIO ON THE HORRORS THEY WITNESSED AND A NATION PLUNGED INTO ANARCHY.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WHERE, SYLVIA A AND THE PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS.

AND THE AUGUSTINE OH THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

PATRICIA U.N.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND JEFFREY KATZ.

CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I AM SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS CRACKING DOWN ON GAZA CITY WITH OFFICIALS WARNING THE MOVE THAT IT WOULD LEAD TO ANOTHER CALAMITY WITHIN THE ENCLAVE.

ISRAEL CONTROLS 75% OF GAZA BUT THIS WOULD RING IT TO NEARLY FULL CONTROL OF THE ENCLAVE IN 25 YEARS.

HEAVY ENVIRONMENT --BOMBARDMENT AND THE IDEA THAT HE RAN A HAMAS TERRORIST CELL.

A CLAIM THAT WAS DENIED.

IT WAS CALLED A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO INVOICES IN GAZA ANOTHERS SEE IT AS A MOVE BY PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU.

JOINT IS ME NOW FROM ISRAEL , IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU .

FIRST, CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH EXACTLY WHAT PLAN WAS APPROVED BY THE SECURITY CABINET?

IS IT TAKING OVER MILITARILY THE ENTIRE ENCLAVE OR JUST GAZA CITY ?

>> NO, THIS IS NOT ABOUT TAKING OVER THE ENTIRE ENCLAVE.

ISRAEL IS ALREADY IN CONTROL OF ABOUT 75% OF THIS SMALL REGION.

THE GAZA POPULATION WAS ACTUALLY PUSHED INTO THREE DIFFERENT SMALL ENCLAVES IN GAZA CITY, THE REFUGEE CAMPS THE MIDDLE OF THE STRIP AND THE AREA ALONG THE COAST OF THE MEDITERRANEAN AT THE SOUTH.

WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS GAZA CITY.

IT IS ASSUMED THAT THOUSANDS OF HAMAS MILITANTS ARE HIDING THERE AS WELL.

IN THE ISRAELI CABINET, LAST THURSDAY NIGHT , THE DEBATE WAS ABOUT THIS OPERATION.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU IS PUSHING FORWARD THIS PLAN.

THE I.D.

--IDEA ABOUT THE CHIEF OF STAFF WITH THE MORE LIMITED LAND ABOUT THE SIEGE OF THOSE ENCLAVES WITHOUT TAKING CONTROL OF ALL OF GAZA CITY .

>> AND THE IDEA OF THE CHIEF OF STAFF THAT WAS INSTALLED AND HAND-PICKED BY PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SIX MONTHS AGO.

SAYING IT RISKS ISRAELI LIVES AND HOSTAGES AS WELL.

AND I SAW SOMETHING TODAY THAT THEY COULD IN FACT TAKE ON GAZA CITY AND IN FACT TAKE OVER MILITARY CONTROL FROM GAZA CITY.

IS HE WALKING BACK PREVIOUS CONCERNS OR ARE THESE SEPARATE ISSUES?

>> NOT REALLY, THESE ARE NOT SEPARATE ISSUES.

HE IS A SOLDIER IN THE END AND PROBABLY DELAYING ORDERS UNLESS HE FEELS THIS IS TOO DANGEROUS FOR THE COUNTRY AND FOR THE SOLDIERS' LIVES.

I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAS MADE UP HIS MIND YET.

THIS IS A ISRAELI DEVELOPMENT .

THE PRIME MINISTER HAS MADE THE PLAN BUT IT IS UNCLEAR WHETHER THIS WILL BE FULLY IMPLEMENTED BECAUSE NETANYAHU HAS LEFT THE DOOR OPEN TO NEGOTIATIONS.

IN FACT NEGOTIATIONS ARE RESUMING BETWEEN CAIRO AND THERE IS STILL A POSSIBILITY THIS IS BEING USED TO PUSH HAMAS BACK INTO THE NEGOTIATIONS HOPING TO RE- --REACH AT LEAST AN INTERIM DEAL WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE RELEASE OF 10 ISRAELI HOSTAGES OUT OF 20 LIVE HOSTAGES AND UP PERHAPS THE BODIES OF 15 OUT OF 30 THAT ARE STILL WITH HAMAS.

>> TO HEAR FROM CONTEXT THAT THEY VIEW THIS AS MORE THE LATTER WITH THE PRIME MINISTER TRYING TO SQUEEZE HAMAS FURTHER BY THREATENING TO TAKE OVER GAZA CITY AND THE ENTIRETY OF THE ENCLAVE IF NEED BE .

I KNOW THIS OPERATION, IF IT DOES GO FORWARD, WOULD REQUIRE A FEW WEEKS, AT LEAST , TO PUT INTO FULL EFFECT.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

IS THIS SOMETHING THE PRIME MINISTER IS SET ON DOING ?

WE'VE HEARD SO MANY PROMISES IN 22 MONTHS.

SO MANY STATEMENTS BEING MADE ABOUT FULL AND TOTAL VICTORY WHICH WAS AROUND THE CORNER.

YOU MAY RECALL IN MAY THERE WAS AN ISSUE OR DEBATE IN '24 AND ISRAEL PUSHED FORWARD AND MANAGED TO EVACUATE CLOSE TO 1 MILLION PEOPLE FROM RAFAH AND THAT WAS CONSIDERED A VICTORY BUT WAS NEVER ABLE TO FOLLOW UP AND REACH A FULL VICTORY OVER HAMAS.

SO, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

TO ME, YOU MENTIONED THE PRESS CONFERENCE YESTERDAY.

ONE HELD IN ENGLISH AND ONE IN HEBREW AND I SAW THE LEADER WHO WAS LOSING THE PLOT .

FOR A LONG TIME, NETANYAHU HAS BEEN MAKING PROMISES.

HE IS TRYING TO REACH A DEAL BUT ONLY UNDER HIS TERMS AND IS FACING PROBLEMS DOMESTICALLY.

IT IS DEEPLY UNPOPULAR AND A LOT OF THE MAJORITY OF THIS RAYLEIGH PUBLIC SUPPORTS THE DEAL.

PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS GOING TO BE COSTLY AND THAT PERHAPS RELEASING A LOT OF PRISONERS OF HAMAS MURDERERS IN ISRAELI JAILS.

IN THE END, I THINK MOST ISRAELIS, THE NUMBER ONE GOAL IS TO HAVE THE HOSTAGES FREED, ALIVE, IF POSSIBLE OF THE 20 REMAINING POT HOSTAGES.

THIS IS WHY NETANYAHU IS HAVING SUCH A HARD TIME.

AS YOU MENTIONED, HE IS HAVING A HARD TIME WITH THE WEST AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY BUT ALSO BACK HOME WITH THE GENERALS, THE PUBLIC AND ALSO HIS ARE RIGHT PARTNERS IN THE COALITION .

THE PRIME MINISTER ANNOUNCING HE HAS LOST FAITH IN THE COALITION AND HE IS SAYING THIS IS NOT GOING TO BRING ISRAEL TO THE FINAL VICTORY.

AGAIN, FOR PEOPLE ON THE FAR RIGHT, THIS IS NOT ENOUGH AND >> AND YOU KNOW FROM THE PRIME MINISTRY AND SOMEONE WHO COVERS THE GOVERNMENT CLOSELY , HE SAID HE COULD TOPPLE THE GOVERNOR IF HE WISHES.

WHEN THE GOVERNMENT IS FED UP, IT IS FORCING THE IDEA TO WITHDRAW FROM ENEMY TERRITORY.

IS IT YOUR VIEW THE PUBLIC IS CLOSER TO BEING FULLY FED UP AND THEY HAVE IN THE TWO YEARS OF THIS WAR?

>> THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS, I'M AFRAID .

THE SENTIMENT IS QUITE CLEAR AGAINST CONTINUING THE WAR AND HOPING TO REACH A DEAL SOON.

BUT, IT IS VERY HARD TO REACH THAT GOAL .

ONE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, IS HAMAS WHICH IS BEHIND THE WAR TO BEGIN WITH FOR HOLDING THE HOSTAGES SO LONG.

AND IT HAS THE OAK AND UPPER HAND WITH THE OUTREACH AND THE FAMINE IN THE GAZA STRIP.

IT IS HARD TO CONVINCE HAMAS TO GO BACK TO THE NEGOTIATION TABLE AND SHOWS SOME TAXABILITY .

ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE, THE ISRAELI PUBLIC IS EXHAUSTED .

WITH SO MANY DEMONSTRATIONS AND A YEAR OF DOMESTIC UPHEAVAL WITH THE OVERHAUL IN THE BEGINNING OF '23 .

IF YOU RECALL IN THE FIRST 10 MONTHS BEFORE THE WAR BEGAN AND THEN DEMONSTRATIONS AGAINST THE WAR AND A HEAVY BURDEN ON THE ISRAELI ECONOMY AND ISRAELI RESERVISTS SERVING HUNDREDS OF DAYS IN COMBAT DUTY IN THE GAZA STRIP AND OTHER PLACES.

THE PUBLIC IS EXHAUSTED .

IT WILL TAKE A LOT TO CONVINCE MANY ISRAELIS TO GO BACK TO THE STREETS AND DEMAND AND INTO THE WAR.

WE SEE DEMONSTRATIONS ALL THE TIME AND HOSTAGE FAMILIES DESPERATE TO END THIS.

THE PUBLIC RESPONSE IS NOT TRANSLATED INTO DEMONSTRATIONS TO MOVE THE GOVERNMENT IN THE OTHER DIRECTION .

>> YOU MENTION THE PRESS CONFERENCE THE PRIME MINISTER HELD OVER THE WEEKEND.

ONE IN ENGLISH AND ONE IN HEBREW.

LET'S PLAY SOME OF HIS ENGLISH PRESS CONFERENCE WHERE HE LISTED FRIED PRINCIPLES THAT HE BELIEVES WILL IN THE WAR.

>> FIVE PRINCIPLES IS ONE IS HAMAS DISARMS.

SECOND IS ALL HOSTAGES FREED .

THIRD IS GAZA DEMILITARIZED AND ISRAEL HAS CONTROL.

AND FIVE, A CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATION THAT DOES NOT EDUCATE ITS CHILDREN FOR TERROR AND DOES NOT PAY TERRORISTS AND DOES NOT LAUNCH TERRORISTS ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAEL, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO SEE IN GAZA .

>> FOR A LONG TIME, NOW, THERE'VE BEEN PLANS FOR A DAY AFTER PLAN FROM PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND HIS GOVERNMENT .

IT WAS DELIVERED IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE BUT YOU CALL HIM A LEADER THAT HAS LOST THE PLOT.

HOW REALISTIC IS THE POINTS ?

>> THEY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE HE WILL REACH THESE GOALS THIS TIME.

WE HAVE SEEN HIM TIME AND TIME AGAIN IMPROVISING REGARDING GAZA.

HE HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL ON OTHER FRONTS .

PERFORMING QUITE EFFECTIVELY IN LEBANON AND ON THE SYRIA BORDER WITH THE 12 DAY WAR THIS JUNE.

GAZA IS A DIFFERENT MATTER.

WITH THE HOSTAGES AND THE DESTRUCTION AND THE DEATH COUNT AMONG PALESTINIANS, IT IS MAKING IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR NETANYAHU.

PLUS THE POLITICAL PROBLEM.

HIS FAR RIGHT PARTNERS DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT SELF-RULE, PALESTINIAN SELF- RULE IN GAZA.

IN PEOPLE LIKE THE MINISTER ARE ACTUALLY HOPING TO HAVE SETTLEMENTS IN THE AREA.

IT IS ALL GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO MANEUVER.

I AM NOT SURE YET WHETHER ISRAEL WOULD IN FACT IMPLEMENT NETANYAHU'S PLAN IN THE NEXT MONTHS.

>> DESPITE MOUNTING PRESSURE FROM ALLIES, ISRAEL IS INCREASINGLY FINDING ITSELF ISOLATED, EVEN AMONG ITS CLOSEST ALLIES.

A NUMBER SAYING THEY WILL RECOGNIZE THE PALESTINIAN STATE IN THE NEXT MONTHS AND GERMANY CUTTING OFF WEAPONS FOR ISRAEL AND THEIR WAR IN GAZA.

YET, THAT HAS NOT STOPPED THE PRIME MINISTER.

THERE APPEARS TO BE ONE PERSON WHO CAN STOP HIM AND THAT APPEARS TO BE PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT HERE IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD TO SAY .

>> AS YOU KNOW, $60 MILLION WAS GIVEN BY THE UNITED STATES TO PROVIDE SUPPLY FOOD, A LOT OF FOOD, FRANKLY, FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA WHO ARE NOT DOING TOO WELL WITH THE FOOD.

AND I KNOW ISRAEL WILL HELP WITH DISTRIBUTION AND ALSO MONEY.

WE ALSO HAVE THE ARAB STATES THAT WILL HELP US IN TERMS OF THE MONEY AND POSSIBLY DISTRIBUTION .

THAT IS WHAT I AM FOCUSED ON.

AS FAR AS THE REST OF IT, I REALLY CAN'T SAY AND THAT IS PRETTY MUCH UP TO ISRAEL.

>> HAD YOU DETERMINE THAT LAST SENTENCE THAT AS FAR AS THE REST OF IT IS PRETTY MUCH UP TO ISRAEL.

>> THAT IS INTERESTING.

WHENEVER TRUMP MEETS WITH NETANYAHU, HE ENTERS THE ROOM WITH ONE POSITION AND LEAVES WITH NETANYAHU 'S POSITION .

I'M NOT SURE THIS WILL REMAIN THE SAME FOREVER .

TRUMP IS DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PICTURES OF HUNGRY CHILDREN IN GAZA.

HE HAS MADE STATEMENTS ABOUT THE DEATH OF CIVILIANS IN GAZA.

I AM NOT SURE THE COURT OF NETANYAHU'S REACTION WILL CONTINUE.

FOR THE MOAT CUP -- MOMENT THEY HAVE CARTE BLANCHE AS LONG AS THIS SINCE QUICKLY.

THE WAR ITSELF, OR THE OPERATION ITSELF, IF IN FACT IT'S GOING TO OCCUPY GAZA CITY, MAY TAKE MONTHS AND WE WILL SEE IF THE PRESIDENT HAS PATIENTS WITH NETANYAHU FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

>> AS WE APPROACH THE TWO-YEAR MARK OF THE WAR, I BELIEVE ISRAEL'S LONGEST IN HISTORY .

I KNOW YOU ARE WRITING A BOOK ABOUT THIS WAR RIGHT NOW AND I CAN'T WAIT TO READ THAT BOOK AND GET MORE INSIGHTS FROM IT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT .

>> THANK YOU.

>>> ALL EYES TURNED TO ALASKA WHICH IS THE VENUE FOR THE MEETING BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE UNITED STATES ON FRIDAY.

IT IS SYMBOLIC AS WELL SOLD ALASKA TO THE U.S. MORE THAN 150 YEARS AGO AND THE CHOICE SERVES AS A REMINDER FOR THE KREMLIN THAT NATIONAL BORDERS ARE NOT SET IN STONE .

FOR UKRAINE, IT COULD BE A WARNING SIGN AND THERE IS ZERO INDICATION THAT PUTIN HAS SHIFTED ON HIS MAXIMALIST DEMANDS.

WE HAVE YET TO SEE WHAT WILL BE DECIDED IN THEIR ABSENCE.

WE HAVE THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO NATO UNDER BARACK OBAMA AND NOW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN WITH GLOBAL AFFAIRS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ARE ABLE TO CATCH THE PRESENT OF'S PRESS CONFERENCE, ESPECIALLY WHEN SPEAKING ABOUT THE UPCOMING MEETING WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN, HE DID SAY A NUMBER OF NOTABLE THINGS.

ONE HE SAID HE WILL KNOW IN THE FIRST TWO MINUTES WHETHER OR NOT HE WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE A DEAL.

HE ALSO SAID HE WILL CALL PRESIDENT ZELINSKI, OUT OF COURTESY, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE MEETING AND THEN NOTIFY OTHER EU AND NATO ALLIES AFTERWARDS AS WELL.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON TOP PRIORITIES THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE GOING INTO THIS SUMMIT ON FRIDAY?

>> I THINK THE TOP PRIORITY IS TO TELL VLADIMIR PUTIN THE BALL IS IN HIS COURT.

HE IS THE ONE WHO NEEDS TO ACT .

TRUMP IS MEETING WITH HIM OUT OF COURTESY, BUT ULTIMATELY, THIS WAR CANNOT END UNLESS THE MAIN PROTAGONIST S IN THE WAR ARE BOTH SITTING AT THE TABLE AND NUMBER TWO THAT THE COUNTRY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS WAR STOPS FIGHTING.

FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHEN THE WAR STARTED IN 2014, IT HAS BEEN RUSSIAN ACTIONS THAT HAVE LED TO THE ABSORPTION OF PART OF THE UKRAINIAN TERRITORY IN THE BOMBING FOR ALMOST THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS OF UKRAINIAN CITIES AND IT MUST END.

DONE BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT PUTIN.

THE NEGOTIATION IS BETWEEN PRESIDENT ZELINSKI AND PRESIDENT PUTIN.

AND, THE PEOPLE THEY ASSIGNED TO DO THAT WORK.

SO, THE MESSAGE HAS TO BE ONE OF, THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT .

YOU NEED TO MOVE AND IF YOU DON'T, THERE ARE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.

THE KIND OF CONSEQUENCES THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP A FEW DAYS AGO WAS REITERATING HE WAS WILLING TO DO.

SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA AND SERIOUS ENFORCEMENT OF THOSE SANCTIONS AND OTHER MEASURES THAT WOULD HURT RUSSIA AS A CONDUCTS THIS WAR.

THAT IS WHAT THE MEETING NEEDS TO BE ABOUT A NOT A NEGOTIATION .

>> THE SANCTIONS AND SECONDARY SANCTIONS WERE SAID TO GO INTO EFFECT THE NEXT FRIDAY BUT THE MEETING CAME ABOUT INSTEAD.

IS THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO WIN BY SHOWING HIS CITIZENS AND THE WORLD, FRANKLY, THAT HE CAN STILL COMMAND THE U.S. PRESIDENT TO ATTEND A MEETING IN THE UNITED STATES, OF ALL PLACES.

INSTEAD OF THE PRESIDENT SAYING THE TIME IS UP AND YOU DID NOT IMPLEMENT A CEASE-FIRE AND NOW THE SANCTIONS WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.

>> THAT WOULD BE PREFERABLE AND IT WOULD BE PREFERABLE IF THE PRESIDENT SENDS STEVE WITH COUGH ON HIS SEVENTH VISIT TO RUSSIA.

HE MISINTERPRETED ON THE WALL ACCOUNTS WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN WANTED TO DO.

IT IS NOT WHAT PRESIDENT PUTIN OFFERED.

IF PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD DECIDED THERE IS ONE VICTIM IN UKRAINE AND ONE ATTACKER AND THAT IS RUSSIA.

HE HAS IT IN HIS MIND THAT ONLY HE CAN BRING PEACE AND THIS CONFLICT AND INDEED EVERY CONFLICT IN THE WORLD.

HIS POWER PERSUASION WITH SOMEONE LIKE VLADIMIR PUTIN IS ALL IT WILL TAKE.

HE SAID THIS WILL NOT END UNTIL VLADIMIR PUTIN AND I SIT DOWN.

TO GIVE VLADIMIR PUTIN WHO WAS INDICTED BY THE ICC FOR WAR CRIMES AND THE REMOVAL OF CHILDREN IN UKRAINE TO RUSSIA.

YOU SIT DOWN WITH THIS MAN AT A TIME WHEN HE IS STILL ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN A WAR THAT IS KILLING ON A DAILY BASIS, INNOCENT CIVILIANS, CHILDREN, AND OLDER PEOPLE IN CITIES HE IS BOMBARDING IS FRANKLY BEYOND THE PALE.

BUT THAT IS NOT TRUMP 'S WORRY AND THAT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS CONCERNED ABOUT.

HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT ENDING THE WAR WHICH HE THINKS IS THE PEACEFUL SOLUTION.

BECAUSE VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS BEEN PLAYING HIM FOR SO LONG NOW, HE MAIL WELCOME OUT OF THIS MEETING SAYING THAT HERE IS WHAT ZELINSKI NEEDS TO DO RATHER THAN THIS IS WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN NEEDS TO DO.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED WHY PRESIDENT ZELINSKI WOULD NOT BE TAKING PART IN THE MEETINGS ON FRIDAY AND HERE WAS HIS RESPONSE .

>> FIRST OF ALL, VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY IS NOT INVITED ON FRIDAY ?

>> I WOULD SAY HE COULD GO AND HE HAS BEEN THERE FOR 3 1/2 YEARS AND NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

DO YOU WANT SOMEBODY WHO IS BEEN DOING THIS 3 1/2 YEARS.

>> HE REPEATED THAT THREE TIMES.

THAT HE HAD BEEN IN POWER 3 1/2 YEARS AND SUGGESTING THAT IT'S TIME FOR HIM TO LEAVE OFFICE AND NEW ELECTIONS, POSSIBLY.

THE IRONY HERE IS THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS BEEN IN HOW DO YOU HAVE THAT JUSTIFICATION THAT HE IS NOT INVITED TO THE TALKS AS WELL.

>> IT'S DEEPLY CONCERNING .

ONCE AGAIN WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS USING AS A TALKING POINT IS WRITTEN BY THE KREMLIN AND VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THOSE AROUND HIM.

THE IDEA THAT SOMEHOW THAT AMIR ZELINSKI IS NOT LEGITIMATE AND BECAUSE HIS COUNTRY IS BOMBARDED EVERY SINGLE DAY , PARTICULARLY SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS COME BACK TO OFFICE.

THE NUMBER OF BOMBINGS THAT OCCURRED HAS DOUBLED IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS OVER ANY OTHER PERIOD DURING THIS WAR.

TO SOMEHOW SUGGEST THAT THIS WAR IS ZELINSKI'S FAULT OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH UKRAINE OR THAT UKRAINE IS.

--NOT DONE ENOUGH TO NEGOTIATE PEACE AND TO LEAVE ASIDE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN WHO IS BEEN IN POWER 25 YEARS AND CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION TWICE IN ORDER TO REMAIN IN POWER.

HE WILL DO WHATEVER HE HAS TO DO TO REMAIN IN POWER.

AND TO SOMEHOW SUGGEST HE IS LEGITIMATE AND THAT PRESIDENT ZELINSKI IS LITTLE AND HE WILL DO THE WORK FOR HIM IS FRANKLY OUTRAGEOUS AND IT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

IT, AGAIN, UNDERSCORES THE DEEP PROBLEM THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE AND THAT I SHARE WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA, UNCONDITIONALLY WITHOUT ANY SENSE OF WHAT IT IS VLADIMIR PUTIN WILL OFFER, IF ANYTHING.

AFTER EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS, SINCE 2014 .

IT IS FRANKLY DEEPLY, DEEPLY CONCERNING ABOUT WHAT OUTCOME WE ARE GOING TO GET.

THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS NEVER SEEN VLADIMIR PUTIN DO ANYTHING WRONG AND I AFTER THIS MEETING IN PRESSURE INPUT ALL THE PRESSURE ON UKRAINE AND NUMBER ON --NONE ON RUSSIA.

>> WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN, HE SAYS HE SAYS NICE THINGS ON THE PHONE AND THEN HE BOMBS AND KILLS IN KYIV.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID EARLIER WITH FRUSTRATION FROM THE UKRAINIANS WHEN HE SAID THERE COULD BE SWAPPING OF TERRITORIES WHICH LED TO THIS IS STATION OF TERRITORIES WHICH PRESIDENT ZELINSKI SAID WAS A NONSTARTER.

AND ASKING THE NATO AMBASSADOR, THE MAN WHO HOLDS THE JOB THAT YOU PREVIOUSLY DID, MATTHEW WHITAKER, ON THIS QUOTE FROM THE PRESIDENT .

AND HE SAID, I WILL QUOTE TO YOU, NO BIG CHUNKS OR SECTIONS WILL BE GIVEN THAT HAVEN'T BEEN FOUGHT BATTLEFIELD.

I FOUND THAT TO BE QUITE STUNNING FROM A U.S. OFFICIAL SAYING THAT NO CHUNKS OR NO LAND WOULD BE GIVEN THAT HAVE NOT BEEN EARNED.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE EARNED BY RUSSIA HERE?

>> I MEAN THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR HE IS WILLING TO SACK HER VICE UKRAINIAN BLOOD AND UKRAINIAN TERRITORY IN A WAY, AGAIN, DEFINE A WAY FOR THIS WAR TO END.

THE EASIEST WAY IS FOR UKRAINE TO JUST GIVE UP AND SAY, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE IT ALL .

THAT'S ONE WAY TO END THE WAR.

IT IS INDEED WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES PUT ON THE TABLE.

RECOGNIZING CRIMEA AS PART OF RUSSIA EVEN THOUGH, IT WAS, OF COURSE SEIZED BY RUSSIA FROM UKRAINE.

THAT WITH IT SEES THE FOUR PROVINCES THAT RUSSIA HAS WANTED TO BE PART OF RUSSIA.

THE FOUR PROVINCES WHICH WERE A LEGAL REFERENDA TO MAKE THEM PART OF RUSSIA.

THE UNITED STATES IS MORE THAN WILLING TO PROVIDE RUSSIA WITH THE LEGITIMACY OF EASING THOSE PROVINCES AND THEN ALSO TELLING UKRAINE THAT IT COULD NOT JOIN NATO AND WERE NOT HAVE SECURITY CLEARANCE BEYOND WHAT NATO IS ABLE TO PROVIDE .

THAT WAS A U.S. PROPOSAL PUT ON THE TABLE JUST THREE MONTHS AGO.

I FEAR WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING AND THE FACT THAT HE STEAMS TO BE INFORMED BY STEVE WITH COUGH ABOUT WHAT THIS IS ABOUT AND HAS NOT UNDER STOOD THAT THAT PRESIDENT SEES THE CONFLICT AND HOW PRESIDENT PUTIN SEES THE CONFLICT IS STILL CLOSED.

HE WANTS TO END THE FIGHTING, NOT BECAUSE HE CARES THE CONFLICT ENDS BUT HE WANTS THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE FOR HAVING ENDED THE WAR .

BUT, YOU CANNOT IN THE WAR UNLESS YOU RESOLVE THE CONFLICT THAT UNDERLIES IT.

THAT CONFLICT IS CAUSED SINGULARLY BY THE FACT THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN WANTS TO DENY UKRAINE ITS SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE AND ITS ABILITY TO CHOOSE ITS OWN ALLIANCES, THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT .

>> AND WE HAVE JUST A SECOND.

THIS HASTILY ANNOUNCED MEETING HAS IMPACTED PRESIDENT ZELINSKI AND I KNOW EU FOREIGN MINISTERS ARE MEETING AN EMERGENCY MEETING TODAY.

IT COULD ONLY BE TRUMP TESTING THE WATERS WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN BUT WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM EUROPEAN OFFICIALS IN TERMS OF THERE BEING LEFT OUT OF THESE TALKS?

>> THE SAME DEEP CONCERN THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR THE LAST FIVE PLUS MONTHS SINCE THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE AND THE CONFERENCE BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT VANCE AND PRESIDENT ZELINSKI AT THE OVAL OFFICE.

THIS IDEA THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS CHOSEN RUSSIA'S SIDE AND DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT UKRAINE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE AT THE TABLE.

IT IS SOMETHING THE BIG POWERS LIKE PUTIN AND TRUMP CAN RESOLVE AND UKRAINE WILL DO WHAT THEY TELL THEM TO DO.

THE EUROPEANS DON'T HAVE A ROLE EVEN THOSE WERE THE ONES THAT WILL HAVE TO PROVIDE THE SECURITY AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.

THIS IS HOW DONALD TRUMP SEES THE WORLD.

GREAT POWERS GET TO DO WHAT THEY WANT AND OTHERS ABIDE BY THE WISHES.

THAT WAS CLEAR AT THE ALASKA OF UKRAINE.

>> WE APPRECIATE YOU TAKING TIME TO JOIN THE SHOW, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> UP NEXT, PRESIDENT TRUMP 'S IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN CONTINUES.

KNOWING ABOUT THE RISKS ALL TOO WELL, IN RECENT YEARS MANY OF APPLIED FOR POLITICAL ASYLUM IN THE U.S. .

OUR NEXT GUEST SET UP A NONPROFIT TO ASSIST THOSE WHOSE LIVES ARE ON THE LINE.

HE JOINS ME NOW FROM WASHINGTON, D.C..

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU SAID THE U.S. IS CHANGING HOW IT IS TREATING RUSSIAN ASYLUM-SEEKERS.

EXPLAIN HOW FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IN SHORT, THE ISSUE WITH ASYLUM- SEEKERS STARRED IN JUNE OF 2024 .

WITH MOST ASYLUM-SEEKERS CROSSING THE BORDER WITH THE U.S. AND REQUESTING ASYLUM IN THE U.S.

STARTED BEING DETAINED IN HUGE NUMBERS.

MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN DETAINED SINCE THEN.

WITH THE REQUIREMENT TO DEFEND THEIR CASE IN COURT.

HOWEVER, IN DETENTION WITHOUT ACCESS TO INTERNET AND WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT INFRASTRUCTURE.

WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO TRANSLATE THE DOCUMENTS BECAUSE IMMIGRATION WILL NOT ACCEPT DOCUMENTS IN ANY LANGUAGE EXCEPT ENGLISH.

MOST DROP THEIR CASES WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES EFFECTIVELY.

WHEN TRUMP TOOK OVER IN JANUARY 2025 WITH HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER TO CLOSE THE SOUTHERN BORDER AND DRASTICALLY CHANGE THE POLICY.

MOST RUSSIANS WHO APPLIED FOR ASYLUM AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER ARE DEPORTED TO RUSSIA RIGHT AWAY REGARDLESS OF THE CASE OF POTENTIAL HARM THEY COULD FACE IN RUSSIA.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED SINCE MAY AND JUNE OF 2024 WHO ARE IN DETENTION, THEY STARTED FAILING THE CASES AND LOSING THEIR ASYLUM AND STARTED BEING DEPORTED BACK TO RUSSIA REGARDLESS OF THE THREAT BACK IN RUSSIA .

>> DO WE KNOW HOW MANY RUSSIAN ASYLUM-SEEKERS WERE IN THE U.S. AND A OPENED UP BOARDED BACK TO RUSSIA ?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THE IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES DO NOT RELEASE THOSE EXACT NUMBERS.

THE STATISTICS GIVE US THE OVERALL NUMBER POPULATION OF THINK AS OF NOW IT IS MORE THAN 50,000 PEOPLE WILL.

BASED ON OUR NUMBERS AND OUR ESTIMATES AND BASED ON OUR SERVICE THAT WE COLLECT FROM ASYLUM-SEEKERS IN DETENTION, WE COULD SAY MORE OR LESS RUSSIAN ASYLUM-SEEKERS ARE ESTIMATED TO BE ABOUT 1000 PEOPLE IN DETENTION, BUT AGAIN, IT IS VERY ROUGH.

>> WHAT DO THEY FEAR SPECIFICALLY?

AGAIN, ONE CAN GUESS BUT WHAT DO THEY FACE IF THEY GO BACK TO RUSSIA?

>> WE CAN USE THE EXAMPLE OF A RUSSIAN ASYLUM-SEEKERS ARE WHO SPENT NINE OR 10 MONTHS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES IN DETENTION.

HE LOST HIS CASE AND HE LOST HIS A PEEL AS WELL.

WITHOUT SUPPORT OR LEGAL REPRESENTATION , HE WAS DEPORTED BACK TO RUSSIA , CHARGED WITH TERRORISM AND IS NOW IN RUSSIAN PRISON FACING A LENGTHY PRISON TERM.

WE DEAL WITH PEOPLE, NOW, AND A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION .

WHO HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED BACK IN RUSSIA AND WHO HAVE CRIMINAL CASES AGAINST THEM IN RUSSIA .

FOR THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS AND NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE CRIMINALS .

IT IS BECAUSE OF THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS.

WE HAVE A WOMAN IN DETENTION, NOW, A LITTLE OVER 60 YEARS OLD WHO HELPED UKRAINIANS WHO HAD BEEN ADOPTED --ABDUCTED IN THE UKRAINIAN TERRITORIES .

SHE HELPED THEM GET BACK TO UKRAINE .

BECAUSE OF THAT, SHE WAS PROSECUTED AND SHE FLED THE COUNTRY SEEKING ASYLUM IN THE U.S.. SHE IS STILL IN DETENTION AND SHE LOST HER CASE BECAUSE OF LACK OF LEGAL REPRESENTATION AND THE LACK OF ABILITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

THERE ARE MANY CASES LIKE THAT .

>> I KNOW YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP SOME OF THESE ASYLUM- SEEKERS.

TELL OUR VIEWERS, EXACTLY, HOW ARE YOU ARE TRYING TO HELP THEM .

>> WE HAVE ASSEMBLED A TEAM OF ABOUT 40 VOLUNTEERS AND IT IS PURELY A VOLUNTEER INITIATIVE.

WE HELP WITH BASIC THINGS.

WE CANNOT PROVIDE LEGAL SUPPORT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ATTORNEYS BUT WE CAN SEEK LEGAL SUB PORT.

WE WORK WITH ATTORNEYS WHO PROVIDE PRO BONO SUPPORT AND WE SOMETIMES HAVE INDIVIDUAL CONSULTATIONS THAT HELP SIGNIFICANTLY FOR PEOPLE WITHOUT LEGAL CONSULTATION.

WE PROVIDE TRANSLATION AND WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS WE PROVIDE COMMUNICATION FOR PEOPLE IN ISOLATION AND ATTENTION.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE ANY COMMUNICATION WITH FAMILY MEMBERS IN DIFFERENT DETENTION BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY FAMILY SIP DINNING SEPARATION IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS.

ONE FAMILY MEMBER IS IN ONE DETENTION AND ANOTHER IN A DIFFERENT DETENTION.

THERE ARE IMMIGRATION CASES THAT CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER AND WE HELP WITH THAT TOO.

>> WE KNOW ASYLUM-SEEKERS HAVE LEFT FOR EUROPEAN COUNTRIES BUT WHEN EVERYBODY ASKS, HOW DO RUSSIANS FEEL ABOUT IT AND WHY ARE MORE SPEAKING OUT?

>> THIS IS A CASE OF RUSSIANS TRYING TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND SOUND THE ALARM.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT INITIATIVE YOU HAVE UNDERTAKEN AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT WE HAVE REACHED OUT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WHICH OVERSEES I.C.E.

AND WE HAVE NOT HAD A STATEMENT FROM THEM JUST YET.

IF WE DO GET ONE, WE WILL UPDATE OUR VIEWERS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> NOW TO SUDAN WHERE CIVILIANS BEAR THE BRUNT OF THE BRUTAL CONFLICT.

WARNING OF STARVATION IN CITIES .

IT IS ANOTHER CRISIS IN THE DEVASTATING CIVIL WAR THAT IS BEEN RAGING SINCE 2023 .

A POWER STRUGGLE BETWEEN THE PALESTINIAN ARMY AND THE GROUP, RS OF .

THE COURT FOUND THERE ARE REASONABLE GROUNDS THAT WAR CRIMES ARE COMMITTED IN THE COUNTRY.

JOE LEVEL BONN AND LINDSAY ADDARIO WITNESSED FIRSTHAND IT MAY JOIN TO DISCUSS WHAT THE U.N. IS CALLING THE WORLD'S LARGEST HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

>> THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

I CAN, I WANT TO START WITH YOU WITH A NEW REPORT FROM SUDAN.

THERE ARE SOME ALARMING STATISTICS WITH 14 MILLION PEOPLE DISPLACED BY THE YEARS OF FIGHTING WHICH IS MORE THAN UKRAINE AND GAZA COMBINED.

14,000 HAVE DIED IN THE CONFLICT AND THAT IS PROBABLY A SIGNIFICANT UNDERCOUNT.

25 MILLION ARE EXPECTED TO GO HUNGRY THIS YEAR.

THOSE ARE ABSTRACT NUMBERS FOR PEOPLE WHEN YOU SEE SUCH LARGE NUMBERS OF?

WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE ON THE GROUND WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE IN THIS LIFE ?

>> I THINK THE PLACE IN SUDAN WHERE THE NUMBERS CAME HOME THE MOST FOR ME, IT WAS --I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT A DISPLACED PERSONS CAMP, BUT IT WASN'T REALLY A CAMP.

IT WAS A GROUP OF PEOPLE LIVING IN A FORMER'S COOL AND IT WAS OUTSIDE OF THE SUBURBS OF KHARTOUM.

THEY HAD BEEN MOVED FROM WHEREVER IT WAS THEY HAD BEEN.

THEY BROUGHT LIKE IT'S WITH THEM ANY ORGANIZED FOOD DISTRIBUTION.

THERE WERE NO ORGANIZATIONS OR ANYBODY ELSE.

THEY WERE SIMPLY SLEEPING ON THE GROUND OR LYING ON THE GROUND.

IT WAS HOT AT 100 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT AND WAS ALSO RAMADAN AND PEOPLE WERE NOT EATING MUCH DURING THE DAY.

THE FEELING OF STASIS WAS THERE.

EVERYBODY WAS STUCK.

IT WASN'T CLEAR WHERE THEY WOULD GO AND HOW THEY WOULD GET OUT OF THIS PLACE AND GO TO ANOTHER PLACE.

THIS IS SET DINNING SENSATION THAT THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CUT OFF AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WILL DO NEXT.

I RAN TO THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

PEOPLE AT UNIVERSITY WHO SUDDENLY REALIZED THERE WAS NO MORE UNIVERSITY.

PEOPLE DOING JOBS AND CAREERS THAT DISAPPEARED OVERNIGHT .

SUDAN HAD A MIDDLE CLASSED WITH PEOPLE ENGAGED IN BUSINESS.

YOU KNOW, IT HAD UNIVERSITIES AND TOOLS AND ALL OF THAT CAME TO AN END OVERNIGHT.

ALL OF THAT, I THINK IS THE REAL HORROR OF IT .

THE SENSE OF HOPELESSNESS AND THE FEELING THAT NO ONE IS COMING AND NO ONE CARES.

>> SO MANY POWERFUL IMAGES .

A PIECE JUST CAME OUT IN MAY AS WELL AND I WONDER IF YOU COULD KIND OF DESCRIBE A LITTLE BIT FOR OUR AUDIENCE, THE CONTEXT OF THESE IMAGES.

ONE OR SEVERAL ARE OF LITERALLY CHILDREN SCRAMBLING FOR BOWLS OF FOOD ON THE GROUND.

YOU KNOW, IS THAT A DAILY OCCURRENCE OR IS IT OFTEN?

HOW WIDESPREAD IS IT ?

I THINK IT'S HARD FOR MOST AMERICANS TO IMAGINE THAT INSECURITY .

>> THOSE IMAGES ARE FROM CHAD AND IN THAT SITUATION, WE WORK COVERING ONE OF THE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ROOMS.

IT WAS A COMMUNITY KITCHEN .

THEY ARE GIVEN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY AND THEY MAKE AS MANY MEALS AS THEY CAN TO FEED THE SUDANESE REFUGEES THAT HAVE JUST COME ACROSS TO CHAD.

IT'S A PERFECT DEMONSTRATION THAT THE U.N. WF P DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH BUDGET TO FEED PEOPLE WITH A HOT MEAL WHEN THEY ARRIVED.

SO, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WERE COMING ACROSS THE BORDER INTO NORTHEAST CHAD .

THEY LITERALLY HAD NOTHING TO EAT IN THE HAD NO TENTS AND NO SHELTER AND THEY WOULD SIT FOR DAYS, UP TO 10 DAYS SWELTERING IN THE SUN WITH OVER 100 DEGREES AND NO FOOD.

SO, WHEN ONE OF THESE TRUCKS FULL OF GIANT POTS OF FOOD WOULD COME TO FEED THE PEOPLE, IT WAS A MAD SCRAMBLE AND PEOPLE WERE LITERALLY JUMPING OVER EACH OTHER.

AT THE END OF ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS, LITERALLY, THE CHILDREN COULD NOT HOLD THEIR PATIENTS ANYMORE AND STARTED GROUND FOR FOOD.

IT WAS COMPLETE CHAOS.

IT SPEAKS TO HOW HUNGRY AND HOW DESPERATE PEOPLE ARE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK INSIDE OF SUDAN AND ARE FOR, THERE HAS BEEN A FAMINE DECLARED.

ABC WAS ABLE TO SNEAK IN A FEW CAMERAS TO LOCALS.

NO JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN ALLOWED INSIDE TO DOCUMENT.

THERE ARE LITERALLY PEOPLE WITHERING AWAY TO THE BONE BECAUSE THERE IS NO FOOD AND IT'S UNDER SIEGE.

>> THIS IMAGES PROVIDING TWO NO FOOD OR AID INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHAT IS THE ROLE THE UNITED STATES USED TO PLAY COMPARED TO WHAT IT DOES NOW COMPARED TO WHAT IT HAS WITH THE AID ?

>> SO, THE UNITED STATES PREVIOUSLY SUPPLIED ABOUT 40% OF THE WORLD'S HUMANITARIAN AID.

THE U.S. ALSO SUPPLIED MOST OF THE LOGISTICS FOR THAT.

SO THE TRUCKS THAT MOVED GRAIN AROUND TO THE WEBSITES THAT COLLECTED STATISTICS AND ALLOWED PEOPLE TO PLAN .

BAKE ACCOUNT AND PAYMENT SYSTEMS USED TO PAY FOR AID.

ONE THAT HAPPENED WHEN USAID SHUT DOWN, IT WAS LITERALLY JUST SHOT AND PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO LEAVE THEIR OFFICES AND WERE NOT GIVEN ACCESS TO EMAIL OR THE PAYMENT SYSTEMS AND TOLD TO GO HOME AND YOU HAD CASCADES OF CHAOS.

EVEN ORGANIZATION THAT DIDN'T KNOW THEY HAD RELATIONSHIP WITH USAID , FOUND THEY WERE MISSING SOMETHING MORE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE WERE NOT WORKING OR THE FUNDING FOR .

YOU CAN TAKE THAT ALL THE WAY DOWN TO REALLY THE MICRO STREET- LEVEL.

WE WERE IN A SOUP KITCHEN, ONE OF THE SUIT KITCHENS RUN BY THE LOCAL SUDANESE.

THEY TOLD US, WE USED TO SERVE PEOPLE FIVE DAYS A WEEK AND WE HAD TO CUT TO THREE DAYS A WEEK BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ABLE TO GET THE SAME AMOUNT OF SUPPLIES.

THE SUPPLIES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OUR BEANS, OR LITTLE BIT OF GRAIN.

IT IS NOTHING COMPLICATED OR SOPHISTICATED , BUT EVEN THAT TINY AMOUNT OF FOOD AND IT'S PROBABLY PENNIES WORTH OF FOOD, IS BEING CUT BECAUSE OF THE CHAOS OF WHAT HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON FOR REASONS THAT ARE STILL PRETTY OBSCURE.

THE EFFECTS OF THAT ARE MANY AND MULTIPLE AND STILL FLOWING THROUGH THE SYSTEM .

AND, THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO WILL DIE AND START AND NOT HAVE ACCESS TO MEDICINE BECAUSE OF DECISIONS MADE IN WASHINGTON.

>> THERE IS A PHOTO OF A CHILD WEARING RED SHORTS.

THIS LITTLE GIRL HAS CLEARLY BEEN WOUNDED AND HAS NOT GOTTEN THE TREATMENT SHE NEEDS.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A CHILD LIKE THIS GETS INJURED?

WHERE DID THEIR PARENTS, IF THEY HAVE PARENTS, TAKE THEM?

>> THE ANSWER TO THAT DEPENDS ON WHERE THEY ARE WHEN THEY ARE INJURED AND SORT OF WHO IS CONTROLLING THE AREA.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAW IN DARFUR AND ALSO KHARTOUM WHERE THE CIVILIANS ARE ALWAYS PAYING THE PRICE OF BEING INJURED IN ATTACKS AND AIRSTRIKES.

IN THE SOUTH CONTROLLED AREAS, THEY WERE LUCKY BECAUSE THEY HAD A HOSPITAL THEY COULD GO TO, IF THEY COULD GET THEIR.

THERE WERE TRAINED TO DOCTORS.

THERE WAS MINIMAL MEDICINE, BUT ENOUGH TO TREAT THEM.

FOR EXAMPLE, AND DESCRIBES AT THE BEGINNING OF HER STORY HOW THERE WAS SHELLING GOING ON .

AFTER ONE OF THOSE ATTACKS, I RAN TO THE HOSPITAL OVERNIGHT.

THERE WERE 36 WOMEN AND CHILDREN SPLAYED OUT ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOSPITAL AND THERE WERE SO MANY WOUNDED THERE ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT ENOUGH MEDICAL CARE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM.

THEY WERE BEING TREATED BUT THEY HAD TO TRIAGE THEM TO FIGURE OUT WHO WAS MOST GRIEVOUSLY INJURED.

FOR THAT GIRL, SHE WAS ON THE OUTS GIRL --OUTSKIRTS OF KHARTOUM BUT SHE COULD NOT GO TO THAT HOSPITAL.

INSTEAD OF CROSSING FRONT LINES, THEY FLED ELSEWHERE IN DARFUR.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT CARE SHE GOT INITIALLY, BUT WHEN I MET HER, SHE HAD BEEN DISPLACED TWICE AND CLEARLY HAD NOT BEEN TREATED PROPERLY FOR HER WOUNDS BECAUSE SHE HAD TROUBLE WITH MOVEMENT HER MUSCLES WERE FROZEN UP.

IT WAS A FAMILY LITERALLY LIVING IN AN EMPTY AND FINISHED BUILDING WAITING FOR FOOD .

SO, THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES THAT ONCE.

YOU HAVE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES AND VICTIMS OF MORTAR STRIKES AND AIRSTRIKES ON BOTH SIDES.

THEN YOU HAVE A SHORTAGE OF ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE AND NO PROPER NUTRITION TO FEED PEOPLE SO THEY CAN PROPERLY GET BETTER.

>> I AM OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER AN ERA WHERE CELEBRITIES TRYING TO RAISE VISIBILITY AND SUDAN A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO , OR LESS.

THERE WERE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WHO MADE A POINT TO RAISE AWARENESS IN CHURCHES ON SUNDAYS.

I AM WONDERING, YOU SPOKE TO THE PRIME MINISTER WHO RAN A SHORT LIVED CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT AND YET AN INTERESTING LINE IN YOUR .

HE SAID, THE WORLD WE GOT TO KNOW IN THE PAX AMERICANA AND THE POST WORLD WAR CONSENSUS IS JUST TO KNOW MORE.

HOW DID WE GET FROM THAT ERA A FEW SHORT DECADES AGO WHERE AMERICA SEEMED INTERESTED AND ENGAGED IN WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THE PEOPLE IN SUDAN TO THIS SORT OF A STATEMENT ?

>> IT HAS BEEN A FAST SHIFT, ACTUALLY.

MAYBE WE DON'T NOTICE BECAUSE OF OTHER THINGS HAPPENING IN OUR SOCIETY.

BUT, ELSEWHERE IN THE WORLD , THE WITHDRAW OF AMERICA AND THE LOSS OF INTEREST FROM AMERICA IS FELT SHARPLY .

I DON'T WANT TO EXAGGERATE THE ROLE AMERICA PLAYED IN SUDAN.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN A PRIORITY IN AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY BUT IT WAS A SUBJECT PEOPLE WERE AWARE OF AND CARED ABOUT AND THERE IS AN EXHIBITION AT THE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM IN WASHINGTON ABOUT DARFUR AS WELL .

THE U.S.

PLAYED A ROLE IN ENDING ONE PHASE OF THE CIVIL WAR AND IT PLAYED A ROLE IN SOUTH SUDAN WHICH HAD BEEN PART OF THE REST WHEN SUDAN SECEDED AND CREATED ITS OWN COUNTRY.

THE U.S.

PLAYED A MEDIATING ROLE IN ALL OF THAT.

FOR THE SUDANESE, NOW , YOU OFTEN MEET PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY PRO-AMERICAN OR HUGE FANS OF THE UNITED STATES BUT YOU STILL MEET PEOPLE WHO SAY, WHERE IS THE UNITED STATES?

WE MISS HAVING SOMEONE WHO WOULD OCCASIONALLY COME FROM THE OUTSIDE WHO HAD THE DIPLOMATIC CLOUD TO ORGANIZE A CONFERENCE OR A CONVERSATION OR NEGOTIATION.

WHO GET THE WARRING PARTIES IN ONE ROOM TOGETHER AND MAKE THEM SIT DOWN AND TALK .

THERE IS A FEELING THAT THERE USED TO BE MORE OF FROM THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL WITH ENVOYS IT WOULD SEND TO VARIOUS PLACES WITH STATUS AND THEY WOULD PLAY A ROLE.

AS THE SECURITY COUNCIL IS GROWN WEAKER , AND I TALK ABOUT THAT TOO.

AND AS THE U.S. HAS BEGUN DISTRACTED AND FOCUSED ON ITS OWN PROBLEMS AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE THIS FEELING OF A VACUUM .

YOU KNOW, THIS FEELING THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT SUDAN AS A WHOLE .

THERE ARE ONLY, AS I SAY, THESE MIDDLE POWERS, THESE NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES THAT HAVE ECONOMIC INTEREST OR ALLIANCES WITH DIFFERENT GROUPS.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE LOST ANY SENSE OF WHAT USED TO BE CALLED LIBERAL WORLD ORDER.

A SET OF ORGANIZATIONS AND INSTITUTIONS AND A PATTERN OF PEOPLE WHO COULD, IN A CRISIS, HELP OUT .

THERE IS A WAY YOU CAN MEASURE THE DECLINE OF THE SYSTEM.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF REFUGEES IN THE WORLD AS A WHOLE, YOU CAN SEE THROUGHOUT THE '90s AND EARLY 2000'S, IT'S ABOUT 40,000 THAT GOES UP AND DOWN YOUR AFTER YEAR .

STARTING ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO, THERE APPEARS TO BE A RAPID CLIMB AND WE ARE NOW ABOUT 2.5 TIMES THAT.

WARS ARE NOT SOLVED AND CONFLICTS ARE NOT ENDED .

>> YOU HAVE INTERESTING PEOPLE ON THE GROUND TRYING TO DO THEIR BEST.

YOU SPOKE TO A DOCTOR WHO TREATS SEVERELY MALNOURISHED PEOPLE AND YOU MET AN ACTIVIST.

TELL US ABOUT THE PEOPLE WITH WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO AND WHAT ARE THEY TELL YOU?

>> I MET A LOT OF SUDANESE PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY COMMITTED TO STAYING INSIDE THEIR COUNTRY AND TO DOING WHAT THEY CAN AS LONG AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

ORGANIZED.

THERE IS A GROUP CALLED THE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ROOMS AND SOME ARE CALLED MUTUAL AGE GROUPS.

MANY PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THEM OR WHO VOLUNTEER THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE PART OF PREVIOUS DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENTS .

IN SUDAN, THERE WAS AN ERA WITH A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM STUDENTS, PROFESSIONALS, AND OTHERS TO OPEN UP SUDAN AND BRING BACK THE RULE OF LAW .

TO MAKE A BETTER LEGAL SYSTEM AND BRING BACK A MORE JUST STATE AND FOR RECONCILIATION AND TO CALM THINGS DOWN.

THIS IS BEFORE THE WAR BROKE OUT.

MANY PEOPLE ARE RUNNING FOOD KITCHENS , OR THEY ARE HELPING PEOPLE GET MEDICINE OR RAISING MONEY OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY TO BRING IN SOMETHING.

SO, YOU DO HAVE A SENSE THERE IS A KIND OF A PATRIOTISM AND A SENSE OF IMPORTANCE OF COMMUNITY THAT MUST BE VERY OLD THERE.

YOU DO START TO WORRY IF THE SITUATION WERE TO CONTINUE GET WORSE AND IF THERE WERE NO INTO THE FIGHTING, HOW MANY OF THEM WOULD BECOME DISCOURAGED?

WOULD THEY LEAVE?

YOU STILL HAVE THE POSSIBILITY, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT A DIFFERENT KIND OF SUDAN THAT CAN ARTICULATE IT AND IMAGINE IT AND THEY ARE STILL ON THE GROUND WORKING.

WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT AT SOME POINT THAT THOSE PEOPLE BEGAN TO HAVE A LARGER ROLE IN HOW THEIR COUNTRY IS RUN.

>> WHAT IS NEXT HERE?

IS THIS A WAR LIKELY TO SEE AND END ANYTIME SOON ?

>> IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT NOW THAT IT IS CLOSE TO ENDING.

THERE WILL COME UP POINT WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXISTED THEY BEING EXHAUSTED BY THE CONFLICT OR THE FRONT LINES ARE STABILIZED .

MAYBE A POINT IN THE FUTURE WHEN WE CAN MOVE TO A NEW PHASE.

AGAIN, THE CONFLICT NEEDS .

IT NEEDS AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN ATTENTION AS WELL AS OTHERS IN THE REGION.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES THAT COULD PLAY A GREATER ROLE.

TURKEY IS ONE AS WELL AS EGYPT .

IT IS IMAGINABLE, THE END, BUT IT DOESN'T FEEL NOW WE ARE THAT CLOSE.

>> I WOULD SAY WE CAN'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE I INTERVIEWED WHO HAD FLED FIGHTING.

ONE WOMAN WAS IN AN AIRSTRIKE AND LITERALLY HAD HER BABY KILLED OFF HER SHOULDERS AS SHE WAS FLEEING .

ANOTHER WOMAN WAS FLEEING WITH HER FAMILY AND HER SON WHO IS VERY DARK SKINNED WAS PULLED OUT BY THE RS FN IS ARABIC WAS TESTED TO SEE IF THEY COULD DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO EXECUTE HIM .

ULTIMATELY, THEY DECIDED TO SPARE HIM BECAUSE HIS ARABIC WAS GOOD AND HE WAS ON THEIR SIDE.

THEN HE WATCHED HIS FRIENDS EXECUTED IN FRONT OF HIM .

THE STORIES ARE HAPPENING AND WE CAN'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THE SEXUAL VIOLENCE IS OFF THE CHARTS.

THE AMOUNT OF WOMEN THAT WE INTERVIEWED THAT HAVE BEEN AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE THIS GENERATION OF PEOPLE ?

SOME OF SUFFERED THIS TWICE NOW IN THEIR LIFETIMES.

I THINK ANN IS RIGHT THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE TIME FOR SOMEONE TO STEP UP AND TRY TO MEDIATE THIS.

>> LINDSAY AND DAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

THANK YOU.

>> FINALLY TO THE CITY OF ETERNAL SPRING.

CELEBRATING A FLOWER FESTIVAL WITH THE BRILLIANT DISPLAY OF COLOR IN BLOOM.

CHEERING ON THE ARTISTIC CREATIONS AND RURAL PRIDE ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

THE FLOWER ERRORS PAY TRIBUTE TO COLUMBIA'S RICH HERITAGE WITH A BEAUTIFUL SHOW OF CULTURAL IDENTITY.

ONE HAPPY PARTICIPANT SAID, HE COULDN'T WAIT FOR THE DAY TO ARRIVE IN BOY DID THEY SHINE WITH THOSE ARRANGEMENTS.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM.

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