>>> NOW, AS TRUMP'S IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN CONTINUES IN MINNESOTA, EVEN CHILDREN ARE GETTING CAUGHT UP IN THE SURGING ICE TACTICS THERE.

THIS IS A FIVE-YEAR-OLD, LEON RAMOS, A PRESCHOOLER, WAS DETAINED WITH HIS FATHER IN THEIR DRIVEWAY ON TUESDAY, THIS DESPITE HAVING AN IMPENDING CASE.

WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED BY ICE IN MINNESOTA OVER THE PAST EIGHT WEEKS.

AS PROTESTERS FACE OFF AGAINST ICE, BISHOP HAS CALLED ON ALL THE CLERGY TO STAND UP FOR THE VULNERABLE, AND YOU SPOKE TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT THE POWER OF SPEAKING OUT AT THIS TIME.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE .

BISHOP, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> IS SO, YOU OVERSEE CONGREGATIONS ACROSS NEW HAMPSHIRE, AND I AM SURE YOU TRAVEL EVEN MORE WIDELY BEYOND THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT, POLARIZED, THAT IS ONE OF THE WORDS THAT COME TO MIND.

SOME PEOPLE ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS TAKEN, OTHER PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY SHAKEN BY IT, DEEPLY DISTURBED BY IT, AND FEEL MORALLY CHALLENGED BY IT.

SO, AS YOU TALK TO YOUR CONGREGANTS, WHAT ARE THEY TELLING YOU.

>> WHAT THEY ARE SAYING MAINLY IS SETTING ASIDE ANY POLICY , THEY ARE EXPRESSING DEEP AND PROFOUND GRIEF, FRUSTRATION, AND SADNESS AT THE POLARIZATION AMONG US AND WITHIN US, AND THIS SENSE OF SPLINTERING.

THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT NO LONGER BEING REALLY ABLE TO TALK WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS.

WHAT TIMOTHY SNYDER ONCE WROTE ABOUT IN THAT LITTLE BOOK ON TYRANNY, TAKING LESSONS FROM THE 20th CENTURY THAT ONE THING THAT HAPPENS IS NEIGHBORS BECOME SUSPICIOUS OF ONE ANOTHER.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY STAND AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE VILIFIED BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN LABELED LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE , REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT .

AND I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMING TO THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH BECAUSE GENERALLY, TO BE NEIGHBORS AGAIN.

AND IT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN A HALLMARK OF OUR CONGREGATIONS FOR GENERATIONS, MAYBE TO THE POINT OF -- MAYBE NOT APPEARING AT ALL RELEVANT OR HAVING ANY KIND OF TRACTION IN THIS SOCIETY.

THEY ARE NOT TYPICALLY ENGAGED , BUT ARE SHOWING UP WITH GREATER NUMBERS, I AM DEFINITELY HEARING THAT CAN >> YOU CAME TO NATIONAL ATTENTION AFTER REMARKS YOU MADE AT A VIGIL FOR RENEE GOOD, WHO IS THE AMERICAN WOMAN, YOU KNOW, WIFE, MOM OF THREE, WHO WAS FATALLY SHOT BY AN ICE AGENT EARLIER THIS MONTH.

SO, THE FIRST THING I WANTED TO ASK IS WHAT BROUGHT YOU TO THAT VIGIL?

>> I'M NOT AN ACTIVIST.

I FIND MYSELF --I TRIED TO BE A MAN OF YOUR AND STUDY THE BIBLE AND A PASTOR, AND I SPENT THE WEEK WITH OTHER BISHOPS IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN A SAINT BENEDICT CENTER, AND THERE WERE JUST A FEW BISHOPS.

ONE OF WHOM WAS THE BISHOP, THE CURRENT BISHOP OF MINNESOTA.

AND WE WERE IN YOUR AND STUDYING GOD'S PRESENCE AND SPENDING A LOT OF TIME IN SILENCE ON WEDNESDAY MORNING OF THAT WEEK.

BISHOP CRAIG LOYA WAS CALLED OUT OF THE MEETING, OF OUR SESSIONS, BECAUSE OF THIS SLAYING OF RENEE GOOD AND HE NEEDED TO RESPOND.

AND I WAS JUST OFF THE AIRPLANE FROM THAT RETREAT WHEN I WAS ASKED TO SPEAK AT THIS VIGIL ON FRIDAY NIGHT, IT WAS A COLD, RAINY, DARK NIGHT IN CONCORDE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE, WHEN A NUMBER OF THINGS WERE SAID, AND I SPOKE --I WAS SPEAKING PRIMARILY, I WAS ADDRESSING THE CHRISTIANS WHO WERE IN ATTENDANCE AT THAT VIGIL, BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT I TALK ABOUT OUR OWN TRADITION AND OUR OWN FAITH.

>> HERE IS WHAT YOU SAID, YOU SAID I HAVE TOLD THE CLERGY OF THE EPISCOPAL DIOCESE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE TO GET THEIR AFFAIRS IN ORDER, TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THEIR WILLS WRITTEN, BECAUSE IT MAY BE THAT NOW IS NO LONGER THE TIME FOR STATEMENTS, BUT FOR US WITH OUR BODIES TO STAND BETWEEN THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD AND THE MOST VULNERABLE.

SO, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, WHICH IS, HAD YOU GONE THEY'RE PREPARED TO MAKE THIS STATEMENT, HAD THIS BEEN IN YOUR MIND AND ON YOUR HEART AT THAT TIME, OR WHAT WAS IT THAT --THAT BROUGHT THAT FORWARD?

>> WELL, I HAVE MADE SOME STATEMENTS BEFORE, I REMEMBER MAKING STATEMENTS DURING THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, ESPECIALLY WHEN HE WENT ACROSS THE STREET TO TALK IN FRONT OF ST.

JOHN'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN LAFAYETTE SQUARE AND CLAIMED THE POWER OF GOD BEHIND HIM, HOLDING A BIBLE.

WHAT I SAID WAS NO DIFFERENT.

WHAT I HAVE TOLD THE CLERGY OR THE CONGREGATIONS I HAVE SERVED FOR 35 YEARS OF MINISTRY , THAT OUR BAPTISM TELLS US WHEN WE BLESS WATER OVER THE WATER OF BAPTISM, WE SAY IN THIS WATER, YOU ARE BURIED WITH CHRIST, YOU SHARE IN HIS DEATH, AND IN THIS WATER, YOU ARE ALSO RAISED BY HIM IN HIS RESURRECTION.

WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHARING OUR LIFE FOR OTHERS, AND JESUS TALKS ABOUT TAKING UP THE CROSS.

HE TALKS ABOUT IT TO ST.

PETER.

YOU KNOW?

THIS IS NOT JUST A MOMENT OF PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND RELAX.

I AM GOING TO JERUSALEM, JESUS SAYS, THIS IS AT THE CORE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH.

ROMAN CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX, IT'S WHAT I LIVE AND BREATHE.

SO, IT WASN'T ANYTHING NEW.

IN FACT, THE CLERGY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, THEY HEARD ME TALK ABOUT GETTING THEIR SPIRITUAL PLACE , YOU KNOW, DWELLING IN THAT PRESENCE, THAT LIFE-GIVING , DEATH-DEFYING PRESENCE OF GOD, AND HAVING THEIR WILLS PREPARED, GETTING THEIR AFFAIRS IN ORDER AS MUCH AS THEIR SPIRITUAL AFFAIRS IN ORDER.

I TOLD THAT TO THEM MOST RECENTLY IN SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER, IT WAS SHORTLY AFTER THE CHARLIE KIRK ASSASSINATION.

IT WAS WHEN WE HAD JUST HEARD OF A POLL DONE SAYING THAT AMERICANS NOW BELIEVE THAT THE WAY OUT OF THIS POLITICAL CRISIS THAT WE ARE IN IS THROUGH POLITICAL VIOLENCE, AND THAT EVEN DEMOCRATS ARE THE FASTEST GROWING SEGMENT OF THOSE POLLED BELIEVE THAT.

SO, IT IS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT WE ARE LIVING IN VERY VIOLENT, FRAUGHT, PERILOUS TIMES, JUST BY LIVING OUR LIVES, JUST BY, YOU KNOW, DROPPING OFF A CHILD AT SCHOOL.

THAT WHATEVER WE ARE DOING, UM, WE ARE NOT SEEKING TO STAND IN FRONT OF A LOADED GUN, BUT THAT IS PART OF OUR TRADITION.

I DIDN'T COME NECESSARILY PREPARED, I HAD NO PREPARED REMARKS AT THAT MOMENT, I SAID WHAT WAS IN MY HEART >> YOU ALSO USED THE PHRASE, A NEW ERA OF MARTYRDOM.

AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT MARTYRDOM, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO NAME?

>> TODAY, I AM IN A MONASTERY IN CAMBRIDGE RIGHT NOW, WE JUST CELEBRATED THE FEAST OF AGNES AND CECELIA, TWO YOUNG GIRLS WHO DIDN'T MARRY IN THE WAY THEIR PARENTS OR THEIR LOCAL CIVIC AUTHORITIES WANTED THEM TO BEHAVE.

AND THEY WERE BEHEADED , WERE SLAIN.

YOU KNOW, THEY WEREN'T LOOKING FOR THAT.

JONATHAN DANIELS WHITE, A MIDDLE-CLASS SEMINARIAN FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE, WAS WANTING TO COME ALONGSIDE BLACKS IN SELMA AND ALABAMA, GETS THROWN IN JAIL, AND TAKES THE BLAST , A WHO WAS AIMING AT A BLACK GIRL.

HOW MANY BLACK PEOPLE OR PEOPLE OF COLOR OVER , YOU KNOW, OTHER MINORITIES, WHO WERE SIMPLY DRIVING THEIR CAR ARE ACCOSTED AND DON'T SURVIVE THE DRIVE?

DO WE CALL THEM MARTYRS OR NOT?

I SEE RENEE GOOD POSSIBLY AS -- HISTORY WILL DECIDE WHETHER CHARLIE KIRK IS A MARTYR, BUT IF WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN FREEDOM AND LOVE WHO WE ARE CALLED TO LOVE, STAND WITH WHOM WE ARE CALLED TO STANDBY, WITHOUT FEAR OF THE AUTHORITIES OF THIS WORLD , AND IF THAT COSTS US OUR APPEARANCES, OUR STATUS, PERHAPS OUR LIVES, WE ARE TO BE READY.

>> WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU, BECAUSE AS YOU SHARED, YOU DON'T CONSIDER YOURSELF AN ACTIVIST, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU?

THINK, IS THAT I --I GO TO RALLIES, I SEE RALLIES OF THOSE WHO MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT OF MINE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE STATEHOUSE THERE ARE NO KINGS RALLIES, THERE ARE RALLIES TO COUNTER GUN VIOLENCE, THERE ARE PRO-LIFE RALLIES, ANTIABORTION RALLIES, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN AN OPEN CARRY STATE LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE, THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE WINGS, ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THOSE PROTESTS, WHO ARE CARRYING WEAPONS.

AND WE SEE PRETTY BELLIGERENT WORDS BEING SPOKEN, IF NOT BY THOSE, BUT BY THOSE WHO I MIGHT ASSUME CERTAINLY HAVE THEIR RIGHT TO HOLD THEM, IT DOESN'T BRING YOU NECESSARILY A SENSE OF SAFETY IN THAT MIX.

AND CERTAINLY AFTER THESE EVENTS.

AND IN THE MULTIPLE PUBLIC SLAYINGS OR ATTEMPTS AT SLAYING THAT WE HAVE SEEN, IT DOESN'T GIVE US A SENSE OF SAFETY.

SO, MY WORDS WERE TO SAY WE NEED TO BE IN A PLACE OF CONTEMPLATIVE ACTION BECAUSE WHEREVER WE ARE CALLED, HOWEVER WE ARE CHOSEN OR CALLED TO EXERCISE OUR LIVES OF FREEDOM, TO GO ABOUT OUR DAYS, NEW HAMPSHIRE, YOU KNOW, FIGHT OR DIE.

RENEE GOOD WAS LIVING FREE.

>> AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF STANDING WITH PEOPLE RATHER THAN SPEAKING FOR THEM.

SO, IN A MOMENT LIKE THIS, DOES THAT CALL YOU AND THOSE WHO SERVE WITH YOU TO ANY PARTICULAR MISSION?

>> I THINK IT'S LESS A VOCAL MISSION.

STATEMENTS ONLY GO SO FAR.

AT WHAT POINT DO OUR BODIES BECOME THE STATEMENT?

THE WORD MARTYR COMES FROM THE GREEK, BUT SIMPLY MEANS A WITNESS.

BEARING TO THE TRUTH.

JOURNALIST, YOU ARE A MARTYR.

I AM SURE YOU DON'T GET ALL SORTS OF FAVORABLE COMMENTS.

I CERTAINLY HAVEN'T RECENTLY, I HAVE GOTTEN A LOT, BUT I HAVE GOTTEN A FEW THAT HAVE BEEN QUITE DISTURBING, AND THEY CALL ME TO A PLACE OF SAYING, OKAY, WHATEVER HAPPENS, OH GOD, WHATEVER HAPPENS, I AM YOURS, YOU ARE MINE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT YOU LOVE ME, I KNOW YOU LOVE THE ONE WHO IS PURPORTED TO BE MY ENEMY.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE GOTTEN SOME REACTION.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE REACTIONS, IF YOU DON'T MIND SHARING?

>> I AM WATCHING YOU.

SOME THAT HAVE BEEN LABELED FROM ICE OR LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE LEGITIMATE.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME , YOU KNOW, STAY IN YOUR LANE THREATS.

THERE IS NO SAYING -- THERE IS WATCHING YOU, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A MARTYR, I AM HAPPY TO OBLIGE.

WE HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH OUR VERY FRIENDLY, CAPABLE, AND COMPETENT LAW ENFORCEMENT, BOTH NEAR OUR OFFICES AND WHERE I LIVE, AND YOU KNOW, I FEEL A LITTLE THIS I HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT FEAR.

>> IS SO, BISHOP, I KNOW YOU ARE AWARE THAT AMONG THE REACTIONS, THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY THAT YOUR WORDS INFLAMED TENSIONS OR HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF INFLAMING TENSIONS, RATHER THAN CALLING THEM.

I MEAN, TO THAT END, THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY, WHICH OVERSEES ICE, CALLED YOUR REMARKS ABSURD, AND SAID THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO TAKE A STAND FOR THE VULNERABLE, YOU SHOULD STANDBY ICE AGENTS WHO ARE INCREASINGLY UNDER ATTACK.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WILL SAY WHAT ST.

PAUL SAID, THE CROSS IS ALWAYS FOOLISHNESS, IT IS ALWAYS ABSURD, IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO UPSET THOSE WHO HAVE WEAPONS AT THEIR DISPOSAL.

IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO FRUSTRATE THE WAY OF THE POWERFUL.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE ABSURDITY OF IT, I WILL TAKE THAT.

YEAH, IT IS ABSURD, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE THAT THE WAY OF THOSE WHO ARE WITHOUT POWER, WHO ARE UNHARMED, I PRAY, AT THESE PROTESTS, I HOPE, ARE GOING TO FRUSTRATE ICE AND ALL THE MACHINERY THAT IS BEHIND THEM.

I MEANT IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM TO INFLAMED OR INSIGHT, BUT TO STAND ALONGSIDE THOSE WHO FIND THEMSELVES VULNERABLE TO THE POWERS OF THIS WORLD , WHO ARE SEEKING UNJUSTLY, AND UNFAIRLY , AND VIOLENTLY TO EXERCISE , UM, [ INAUDIBLE ].

>> THE WHITE HOUSE HAS DOUBLED DOWN.

THEY ISSUED A STATEMENT SAYING, NO ONE SHOULD FOLLOW ADVICE ENCOURAGING THEM TO COMMIT CRIMES.

ANYONE WHO INTERFERES WITH FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS IS COMMITTING A CRIME AND WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW, THAT COMES FROM ABIGAIL JOHNSON WHO IS A WHITE HOUSE SPOKESPERSON.

HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> I THINK THAT THOSE WHO ARE SHOWING UP IN MINNEAPOLIS AND WHO MAY SHOW UP IN OTHER PLACES, SIMPLY, WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, WE HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

THOSE ARE NOT CRIMES, THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS COUNTRY.

FREEDOM TO EXERCISE OUR RELIGION, I DON'T SEE IT A CRIME.

>> IT'S INTERESTING, THIS ADMINISTRATION TAKES A SORT OF VERY EXPENSIVE VIEW OF WHAT CONSTITUTES A CRIME, BUT THEIR ARGUMENT SEEMS TO BE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE , YOU KNOW, FOLLOWING ICE AGENTS, PHOTOGRAPHING ICE AGENTS, ET CETERA, OBJECTING TO THE WAY THEY ARE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES, ARE COMMITTING CRIMES, AND IN SOME CASES, THEY EVEN CALLED RENEE GOOD A TERRORIST, A DOMESTIC TERRORIST.

WE CAN NOW SEE, BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY CAMERAS, INCLUDING THE OFFICER'S BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE, SEVERAL, WE HAVE NOW SEEN THIS EVENT FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES.

SO, I'M JUST WONDERING, WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT THE SAME THING AND SEE SUCH DIFFERENT THINGS?

>> I AM NOT A SOCIAL SCIENTIST AND I -- AND I HADN'T REALLY STUDIED THE VIDEO.

BUT I MEAN, I HAVE SEEN IT ENOUGH TO KNOW, TO FEEL, TO BE CONVINCED THAT THE POWERFUL INFLICTED VENGEANCE AND RAGE ON THE POWERLESS.

THAT WE ARE ALL INFECTED BY HUMAN SIN.

WE ALL ACT AS A SENSE OF SELF PROTECTION.

RENEE GOOD WAS -- IF SHE WAS IN MINNESOTA AND NOT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, WHICH IS LIVE FREE OR DIE, SHE WAS LIVING FREE, AND SHE WAS BEARING WITNESS.

I UNDERSTAND SHE WAS A CHRISTIAN, BUT SHE WAS BEARING WITNESS TO AMERICAN FREEDOM.

AND THIS IS THE KIND OF OPPRESSION AND TYRANNY THAT THE BEST PART OF AMERICA RAILS AGAINST.

AND SHE WAS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD, AS WAS THE ICE AGENT, AND YOU KNOW, WE ARE CAUGHT UP IN A MAELSTROM OF BROKENNESS AND CATASTROPHE, AND THE ONLY WAY I CAN SEE THROUGH IT IS THROUGH PEACEFUL RESISTANCE , AND THAT MAY MEAN THAT MANY OF US -- SOME OF US WILL GIVE UP THEIR LIVES, OTHER OF US MAY JUST GIVE UP THEIR REPUTATION OR THEIR COMFORT LEVEL, BY GOING TO A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING OR A TOWN MEETING, WHERE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT EDUCATIONAL POLICY OR SEGREGATION OR VOTING RIGHTS.

THAT IS THE KIND OF MARTYRDOM ITSELF.

AND IT ALL EMANATES FROM BEING STEEPED IN THIS SOURCE OF GOD'S LOVE FOR US , THAT IS A KIND OF BEING GROUNDED IN THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS STRONGER THAN DEATH.

JESUS'S HOME ASHES --WHOLE MESSAGE WAS COME CLOSE, COME CLOSE TO THE LIFE OF GOD, AND IT MAY TAKE YOU TO PLACES YOU DON'T WANT TO GO, SO BE READY.

>> BISHOP, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU, I AM HONORED TO BE HERE, AND KEEP THE FAITH.