GEOFF BENNETT: In a major departure from past practice, the CDC is scaling back the number of recommended vaccines for children, reducing it from 17 to 11.

The new schedule recommends that flu and COVID vaccines only be given after consulting with a health care provider.

It also narrows recommendations for hepatitis A and B, RSV, and bacterial meningitis to what it considers higher-risk groups.

The decision aligns the U.S.

more closely with Denmark and Japan, something that HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

has long wanted.

And it follows a directive from President Trump just one month ago to move in that direction.

There are major concerns about what this could all mean.

And for more on that, we're joined now by Dr.

Sean O'Leary, a pediatric infectious disease specialist at the University of Colorado, and a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Thanks for being with us.

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY, American Academy of Pediatrics: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, before we get to the impact, I want to know more about how we got here.

What should we know about how this decision was made and who was involved in it?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Yes, this was really arbitrary.

And this -- let me be clear.

This was not from any CDC scientists.

This was really a political move.

As you may know, our HHS secretary has for decades really been a leader in spreading falsehoods and, frankly, lies about vaccines.

And now he's running our health care system.

And so this -- what we saw today is just one more step in his ongoing dismantling of the U.S.

vaccination program.

GEOFF BENNETT: So what's the potential impact of narrowing the vaccination schedule?

What has pediatricians so concerned?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Yes, I mean, to be honest, what diseases does he want to see children suffer from?

I mean, that's what we're talking about here.

The vaccines that he is scaling back are vaccines that save lives, that prevent thousands of hospitalizations.

So I would ask the secretary, what diseases do you want to see children suffer from?

I really don't understand this move.

It's really based not on any kind of science or evidence, but simply a political ideology.

GEOFF BENNETT: The CDC is recommending that decisions on vaccinations against the flu, COVID-19 and rotavirus be based on what it calls shared clinical decision-making.

And this is, of course, coming amid a sharp increase in flu cases across the country.

Some 45 states saw high flu activity over the Christmas holiday season.

And there have been at least nine pediatric deaths from flu this season.

What does shared clinical decision-making mean if a parent wants to get their kid a flu shot?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Sure.

Changing the recommendation to that may sound good at the -- on its surface, but, frankly, that's what pediatricians do all day every day is talking with families about vaccines and help the families make these decisions.

What this is doing is really just creating a lot of confusion, creating different tiers for vaccine recommendations that are going to be confusing not only for parents, but for clinicians, frankly.

And, really, as you mentioned, influenza is causing a lot of illness this year.

We had the most pediatric deaths in decades last year.

So this is a really tone-deaf change in the midst of a pretty severe flu season.

I should also add that the flu vaccine -- this year's flu vaccine seems to be very effective at preventing severe disease in children.

GEOFF BENNETT: So far as we know, could someone still walk into a pharmacy and get a flu shot or a COVID shot without a doctor's note?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Well, that's where a lot of the confusion comes in.

We have already seen what happened in the fall with some of the confusing recommendations that were coming out of HHS, with patients who wanted to get vaccinated being turned away.

This is only going to add to that confusion.

They're saying they're not taking away access, but the reality is, once these recommendations come down and filter through our health care system, there's going to be a lot of confusion and there are going to be a lot of people who can't get the vaccines that they want.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Trump administration cites Denmark as a model, as you know, a developed nation with few routine childhood vaccines.

Denmark's system, I would imagine, works well for Denmark, but is it actually comparable to the U.S.?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Yes, I mean, I have heard a lot of analogies.

My favorite is that you can't -- it's like comparing a kayak to a cruise ship.

Denmark is the size roughly of Wisconsin.

They have got a very different health care system.

From what I'm hearing from the leaders of Denmark's public health system is, they think what's going on here in the U.S.

is madness.

They historically have looked to us for guidance.

And in the press conference that HHS gave today, they described the U.S.

as an outlier.

Denmark themselves, I have heard them describe themselves as outliers.

We're actually more similar to a lot of countries in our vaccine recommendations, similar to Germany, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, several other countries.

So this idea that we are an outlier is simply false.

GEOFF BENNETT: You mentioned that HHS statement.

I want to read more from it.

It says: "The U.S.

is a global outlier among developed nations in both the number of diseases addressed in its routine childhood vaccination schedule and the total number of recommended doses, but does not have higher vaccination rates than such countries.

In fact, many peer nations that recommend fewer routine vaccines maintain high vaccination rates through public trust and education, rather than mandates."

What do you make of that argument?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Yes, it's a really disturbing irony that they are making these claims that they're doing this to restore trust, when these are exactly the same people who have been working for decades to sow fear and sow distrust in vaccines.

That they're making this move to improve trust, that's just completely false.

The HHS secretary himself has been sowing distrust for decades.

So I don't buy that argument at all.

And the idea that somehow this maneuver is going to raise vaccination coverage because of what they're doing, that makes no logical sense.

The fact is, the vast majority of U.S.

parents vaccinate their children according to the recommended schedule.

Prior to the pandemic, we had greater than 95 percent coverage for most routine childhood vaccines.

We - - that took a hit during the pandemic for a lot of reasons, including a lot of access-to-care issues, insurance issues.

And then, of course, a lot of the fallout from what we saw with the pandemic with attitudes about COVID and COVID vaccines becoming polarized, some of that has spilled over into routine childhood vaccinations.

But the fact is, most parents still vaccinate their children according to the recommended schedule.

So this idea that this maneuver is somehow restoring trust is simply false.

GEOFF BENNETT: And for parents who want to keep their children on the previous, more comprehensive vaccine schedule, what should they do?

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Yes, so HHS is really -- unfortunately, some of what they're doing has legal implications in terms of access and coverage and who stocks what vaccines.

But in terms of being able to trust them, we can no longer trust our federal government for vaccine recommendations.

And that's a real tragedy.

Fortunately, a lot of the professional societies are stepping forward, and we are making our own recommendations.

So, the American Academy of Pediatrics has been making vaccine recommendations since well before the federal government, since the 1930s.

We're going to continue to publish our schedule every year.

The American Academy of Family Physicians is similar to the American College of Physicians, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

We're all working together to continue to make evidence-based vaccine recommendations.

So, at this point in time, I would say trust your pediatrician, trust the professional societies.

Do not trust the federal government about vaccine recommendations.

GEOFF BENNETT: Dr.

Sean O'Leary, thanks for your time.

DR.

SEAN O'LEARY: Thank you.