Let me pivot, uh, finally toward the Middle East, um, and, and ask you this, and, and You know, I've read your recent columns on the subject.

You're a severe critic of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, and the way he's conducted this war and of Hamas, which is no, no, no, I want to get there, but what I don't understand from reading you is this.

So Hamas and its allies seek the annihilation of Israel.

They state that it's not a secret, how does Israel End the war without totally defeating Hamas.

In other words, in other words, is it, I, I understand the criticisms, but how do they, how do they coexist in a with a neighbor who won't allow coexistence.

Um, they don't.

I'm all for Israel.

Completely defeating Hamas militarily.

Uh, what I am not for are the three alternative choices that Israel had after that defeat that Netanyahu refuses to make.

One choice is we defeat them and we, Israel, the Jewish state occupy Gaza forever.

That will be the moral and economic end of Israel.

Another choice is we just leave and we turn it into Mogadishu.

That will also be terrible for Israel.

The third choice, the one I favor, is you create an Arab international peacekeeping force.

In partnership with the Palestinian Authority and over time you build an alternative to Hamas.

I'm what my criticism of Netanyahu is not fighting Hamas, not even crushing Hamas.

It's not creating any alternative Palestinian structure and therefore leaving the Jewish people with the choice, Jeff, a permanently occupying Gaza or having Mogadishu there and permanently occupying Gaza, we know what that's going to do.

That's going to create a world where your grandchildren and mine are going to grow up in a world where they will learn what it is to be Jewish in a world where the Jewish state is a pariah, and that is a disaster and that's what I'm fighting, but there is a double standard, obviously in, in the world when it comes to judging Israel's behavior but I guess you're just saying that you have to live with that.

That's the world as it is.

That's the world as it is.

Um, you quoted a hood older, the former prime minister of Israel, a center-right prime minister saying that Israel is committing war crimes, and this is why he needs the war to start.

Do you agree that Israel is committing war crimes, you know, I have not entered into that whole linguistic fight because my position has been from the very beginning, I'm here to do one thing, figure out how to end this thing.

You know, I'm old, Jeff, 71.

I covered the Hama massacre, Sabra and Shatila, the American embassy bombing.

I've covered all of them, OK, and I said to myself, I'm not going to be the scorekeeper of this.

I'm focused on one thing, not who shot, who did the worst thing to the because they all do terrible things at different times.

I want to figure out how to ended, and that's where I put all my energy from the very, very beginning and, and my, if you've read my stuff on Hamas, it's the same thing.

What is Hamas's position today?

Very simple.

We want a ceasefire and we want Israel out of Gaza.

Oh really?

What did you have on October 6th before this war started, that's what you had.

So you fought this whole war.

You allowed 40 50,000 people to be killed to get you back to where you started.

Shame on you, but I can't, you know, control them.

I can't figure them out.

All I know, I am, I do believe.

that if we want to see a Jewish and democratic Israel, that's what I do care about.

Palestinians will have to figure that out.

You've got to find a way to get out of Gaza in a way that will create also in partnership with a different Palestinian Authority.

Let me ask you one last question because you're an expert on this for Many decades, several decades, many sounds too dire.

uh, what does Netanyahu not understand about American politics and about American Jewish politics.

Well, I think Netanyahu's shocked by what's going on here because Trump, Netanyahu always could go around any American president, and now he can't because he's looking for the Republican base.

He's pulling that lever and it comes off kind of looks like a little bit of a sucker thinking that Joe Biden was bad for Israel.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, it turns out there are other worse things, right?

And what about, um, what does he need to understand about American Jews.

You know, I, I think what he doesn't understand about American Jews is that you know they're ready to be with him.

They wanted Israel that's successful democratic, and um uh if you, they are really important to Israel standing in America and you abandoned them for evangelical Christians.

You'll regret that one day, right, right.

Well, um, it's enormously complicated, as is Russia, Ukraine, as is everything.

And thank you for coming on and not talking about Elon Musk only because I'm, I'm a little already, I'm a little tired.

Iran-Iraqi war, Iran-Iraq war and Ayatollah Khomeini we're going to have to leave it there, but I want to thank Tom for joining me and thank you at home for watching us