I want to read an excerpt from David's piece yesterday, um, something that really striking, he says.

It took the imperious implacable personality of Donald Trump to ram a peace deal home.

The lustering go it alone president did it in an unlikely way by listening to others and organizing a coalition that by the end included all major Arab and European nations, as well as Israel and Hamas, you know, taking that into consideration, Mark, we talked so much during the Biden years about leverage, this concept of leverage, whether it was weapons and other assistance to Israel that might get it to either let um aid into Gaza or let have them scale back on their bombardment of Gaza, um.

President Biden did not withhold weapons, neither did President Trump.

Was there some other leverage or was it, as David says, this personality, this, you know, his personality and just his, his ability to influence Bibi Netanyahu that made this possible.

I think there's a few things.

First off, Netanyahu has built his entire political career on being the person who knows American politics, right?

He sells it as I know America, I know political shifts, and the politics have changed also.

That's one thing to say about politics toward Israel.

The Republican Party's support for Israel is no longer a given, especially among younger Republicans and President Trump has voices in his head in the uh Maga wing of the, of the Republican P ar ty who think Israel just gets the United States into trouble.

That's part of it.

That's part of where Netanyahu knows that he needs Trump.

He needs the United States more than anything.

Europe can all go in another direction, but he fundamentally needs American support.

So when Trump pressures him, it certainly matters.

But there's another thing, and that's a more recent event, and that was the September 9th strike that the Israelis took in Doha, where they tried to kill the Hamas, negotiating team, and it really was a, a game changer.

I was actually in Israel when it happened, and there was a shock about that they actually, you know, even after the last year where Israel had struck in Iran and Lebanon, in Yemen and Syria, doing this changed things and it changed things for Trump and the White House.

Why?

Well, because first of all they didn't know about it and you know there were outraged they were outraged.

They were trying to end this war, and the day before Jared Kushner is meeting with Ron Dermer, who's BB's senior advisor in Florida to hash out, you know, a kind of peace deal, and then the next day, you know, Dermer doesn't tell them that they're about to bomb into Doha, and they're furious, so that does change the dynamic, and that's also to your point, gets um the Arab governments to sort of see an opportunity here to pressure Israel and also to pressure Hamas to end the conflict.

So that's that's another big element.

And David, on the flip side of that, oh please, yes, John, I'm just think about that moment of that strike in Doha.

There was a sense that this was the peace talks were over.

I mean, how can you have peace talks when at an assemblage assemblage of peace talks, the the Hamas side is bombed.

There was a sense that it was, uh, that, that any hopes of ending this conflict were were dashed and the hostages could all be, yeah, and there was, what the fate for the hostages, but what happened instead is, it was such a crisis, that first of all, you had the effort that that uh that Jared Kushner was making, which was the long term plan for a post-war Gaza.

This began around August, about a month before that, and the effort that and the other effort you had with Steve Witkoff to get a hostage deal.

Will those come together and Witkoff and, and Kushner are working together.

The our Gulf allies are outraged by the Israelis.

So is the White House, and there's much more urgency to the task.

That urgency is what brought us to this moment, you know, and since we're on this top ic David, I'll come to you in a second because I want to talk a little about Hamas, but you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu was here in the oval with President Trump over a week ago and an apology to Qatar was a critical element to get this moving forward, not just that.

President Trump also very quietly signed a security guarantees for Qatar.

What more do we know about that, you know, in terms of the phone call, but also President Trump's decision to just grant security guarantees for Qatar, which infuriated many in Israel.

So I cut her after this strike, uh, on the Hamas negotiators who were who were in Doha.

Um demanded a public apology from Israel, and a security guarantee from the United States that it would not be attacked again.

It had asked for such a guarantee after Iran attacked, the US didn't give it, but this time, uh it uh it was, it was, it was granted and, you know, the, the crazy thing about that strike was, Netanyahu, in effect, was destroying the one channel he had to end the war.

Uh, and, you know, there, there is a sense of exhaustion in the Israeli military.

Netanyahu may have wanted to continue, but it, it was a moment when Trump got angry Gutter said, you know, either you do what we want or, or, you know, it's over.

And and I think there was a rallying that Trump decided he was, he was gonna move, he was going to pressure Israel, uh, and, and the whole dynamic changed in that in that moment.

It's unlikely that that strike would have produced peace, but you know, it began the process.

And David, very quickly while I have you to talk about the Hamas position and all of this.

I mean, Hamas has called President Trump, and I'm quoting here, a racist.

a quote recipe for chaos and a man with an absurd vision for Gaza.

So what would motivate them at this stage?

Uh, exhaustion, pressure from the Palestinian population in Gaza, uh, certainly pressure from every Arab country.

Um, you know, this 20 point peace plan is essentially a surrender document for Hamas.

Hamas gives up its weapons, it gives up future political control and in Gaza.

I mean, you know, it's, it's an unlikely series of things for them to agree to.

And my biggest fear is that what's going to happen as we move past this wonderful first phase, and the guns go silent is we'll have a low level insurgency of a kind that's very familiar to the United States and to and to Israel, which could continue indefinitely because there will be Hamas fighters who want to fight to the death, who are not prepared to turn over their guns, who don't want amnesty.

They want to fight.

And I, I, you know, how the US is going to deal with that, how Israel will deal with that, you know, over the next hill, as it were and and who's going to run Gaza, I mean, there's this idea of this technocratic government and you know, the regional powers who is going to keep the security in, so one of the wonderful things that has begun with phase one is the delivery of aid.

How is it going to be distributed safely inside a Gaza that's going to be chaotic, where there's nobody to keep order and and and peace, you know, that that's in the next few days.

I shudder to think what the kind of violence you might see as people scramble, desperate people, scramble for the aid that's now arrived, and that's why this summit that's taking shape in Egypt in a few days that President Trump is slated to attend is so important because there are these momentous questions who's going to run Gaza?

Who's going to rebuild Gaza?

President Trump just said today he's counting on these wealthy Gulf nations, these wealthy allies throughout the region to put up some serious money to help rebuild what was destroyed and you know, if everyone sort of like wipes their hands and says, OK, the deal is done.

It's going to create the conditions for the very kind of low level insurgency that you're talking about, and I think we're all agreeing on that this is taking time and attention for a long time, and, and, and commitment from the United States and commitment from the President and is he going to stick with it because if he doesn't, right, then to David's point about violence, anything could trigger um a start again of the war, I think there's a lot of elements of the Israeli government.

Certainly the Prime Minister who would see a pretext for war in a Hamas attack that if Trump isn't leaning on them and all parties that this could become violent again.

and that's that's my big concern.

And Nancy, you just actually mentioned President Trump's trip to the region.

You're going to be joining him on that trip.

What else do we know about his itinerary?

Well, he's going to be going to Israel.

He's going to be speaking to the Knesset for the he's the first president, US president, to speak to the Knesset since George W. Bush, and then he'll head to Sharm el-Sheikh in Egypt to meet with leaders from the region.

There will probably be some European leaders there as well to talk about what happens next.

I mean, even the president himself, his vision for Gaza has evolved over time, you know, it wasn't that long ago that he was saying people would need to be moved out so that there could be this really glitzy redevelopment in Gaza.

He's kind of backed away from that.

Yesterday he said nobody has to be displaced from Gaza while the rebuilding takes place, but there are still so many unanswered questions about what happens there and who's in charge and who's footing the bill, that conversation is going to begin in earnest in Egypt and so much so many unknowns there, John, you know, we keep hearing about the two players on the American side who have largely orchestrated these talks.

Steve Witkoff, the envoy for the Middle East, and the president's son-in-law who is not in government, but he's back.

Jared Kushner, what can you tell us about their role in all of this?

Look, Jared Kushner is, is, I mean, Witkoff's been frenetically traveling the region, meaning, and by the way, he's also, you know, the envoy for Ukraine.

He seems to be everywhere.

Marco Rubio, the actual Secretary of State, is, uh, you know, is also the national security adviser.

This is really something that came together with an incredibly small team.

Witkoff, uh, travels with the team, uh, his entire support staff is 4 people, I believe, but, but Kushner was the one that was really crafting this 20 point plan.

You know, he is the one, he had already been working on, on the plan for for post-Gaza.

This is really the return of Jared Kushner, who I think was was the critical player in pushing this thing through.

And by the way, part of the plan, I mean it's it's somewhat utopian, you know, it talks about in the vision for for post-war Gaza.

One of the one of the points is a reduction in tariffs.

Um, it would be like favorable tariffs.

I mean, as if like, you know, Gaza's ready to start producing mass exports.

I mean, there are huge questions about where it goes now, but that's kind of characteristic of Jared Kushner, which is and Witkoff too, this very optimistic we're deal guys.

We can get this stuff done, you know, the politicians don't understand it.

The diplomats, you know, go through, uh, you know, too many contortions.

We just the point is let's make the deal, let's get it done.

And US officials who briefed us on Thursday talked about potential phase two, what comes next.

And David, you were alluding to that earlier.

One of the things that was very striking is an international stabilization force that might include at least 200 American troops, which is quite striking for a president who said he was going to curb US presence abroad and US wars abroad.

And so what do we know about the involvement of those 200 troops or what don't we know it?

So from what was initially announced, they will be a kind of command and control force based in Israel.

Um, you know, whether this is going to be an open-ended commitment that could expand.

We don't know.

That will reassure the other countries that are going to be on the ground in Gaz a in the International stabilization of force, the countries like, it said Italy, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, uh there are a range of countries that have agreed privately to to contribute troops, but um just getting enough stability for that force to be able to enter safely, um, you know, you got a long distance to go and it's still not clear to me who's going to do it.

And the White House is adamant that those US troops are not going into Gaza.

They are not keeping the peace in Gaza.

They are there to have this coordination function in Israel, and they're also troops that are already in the region.

I mean, the White House is trying to minimize exactly what this means, but there's some some US skin in the game, even, even though they won't be exposed to fire.

That's one of the things actually that I think is is good about this deal.

The US is there to help and stabilize.

Yes, they're there to monitor the ceasefire.

They are troops that are specialized in logistics and transportation to help with all the log istic s with bringing aid back into Gaza, so they're they're not, at least at this point, supposed to be crossing that border, but they'll be there to make sure that the ceasefire is being carried out to the letter of the agreement.

Mark, very briefly, the White House started to whisper the words Abraham Accords again, the normalization deals with Israel, of course, the coveted normalization with Saudi Arabia still sort of out there.

How realistic is that at this stage, with everything that's happening.

So before October 7th, uh, I think it actually was happening under the Biden administration.

And why is that?

Because the Palestinians were basically left to the side, right?

Israel and Saudi Arabia were going to normalize relations.

No one was thinking about the Palestinians, even the Saudis, right, after October 7th, after the war, uh, it was clear the Palestinians could no longer be ignored.

I think, you know, with the ending of the war, if all these phases continue down the road there will be this possibility, but there's still the question of is there a Palestinian state?

Will there ever be a Palestinian state that is in the current construct of the Israeli government that is a total deal breaker.

They would never go along with it, right?

And and the question is, would the Saudis demand it, right?

Or are there other things that would mollify the Saudis to get normalization with Israel, that the US could give them, and once again the question is who's going to be speaking for the Palestinians.

Nancy, we have just about a minute left and I wanna just turn to the shutdown, um, the director of the Office of Management and Budget Ress vote vote wrote today on X, the riffs have begun referring to reduction and forest plans that the White House has been contemplating.

You were just at the White House.

What did the president have to say about this?

Well, I tried to get him to provide any kind of details about the size of these layoffs, the number of people who got letters today which agencies they come from?

He all he would say is it's a lot and it's all Democratic priorities, but he wouldn't go into more specifics.

We do know that there are some workers from the EPA who have gotten letters informing them that they are going to be laid off 60 days from now DHS, HHS, some workers there as well, but we're still exactly education, but we're still trying to get our arms around, you know, how widespread this is, whether it's more of a scare tactic as Democrats say, or whether these are true significant cuts to the federal and in 30 seconds, are we any closer, John, to to seeing an end to the shutdown.

I don't think so.

I mean, look, Congress is not even going to be in session until, you know, midweek, uh, next week.

I don't see any light at the end of this tunnel, and, uh, you know, uh, Russo, the OMB director does, I think I see a shutdown as a great opportunity to do what he really wants to do, which is to reduce the size of the federal workforce.

A lot to cover there and we'll have, but we have to leave it there.

Um, thank you so much to our guests for joining me and thank you at home for watching.