>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP: >> ONE STRONG COUNTRY CAN START A WAR AND ANOTHER STRONG COUNTRY CAN HELP TO STOP THE WAR.

>> TRUMPS ENVOY AT THE KREMLIN WOULD HOPE THAT IT WOULD YIELD A BREAKTHROUGH, BUT AT WHAT COST?

I ASKED THE WALL STREET JOURNAL'S CHIEF CORRESPONDENT.

THEN --AS TALKS CONTINUE, MISSILES FALL ON UKRAINE.

I SPEAK TO WRITER ANDRE ABOUT THE LATEST VOLUME OF HIS DIARY OF DESTRUCTION: THREE YEARS ON FIRE.

ALSO AHEAD: >> WHEN THE TIME COMES, IF THAT ROOM IS NOT THERE, DOES SHE GO AWAY?

>> ALL THE EMPTY ROOMS, A NEW FILM DOCUMENTS THE VOID LEFT BEHIND IN THE WAKE OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

CBS CORRESPONDENT HARTMAN JOINS, ALONGSIDE BRIAN, THE FATHER OF ONE VICTIM.

PLUS: >> THE LAWS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO PASS ARE STILL [ INAUDIBLE ].

>> THE FIGHT FOR EQUALITY IN IRAN.

CHRISTIANE 'S CONVERSATION WITH A TRAILBLAZER, THE FIRST MINISTER FOR WOMEN IN 1970s TEHRAN.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENTS, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDICE KING WEIR, SYLVIA AND SIMON POITA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, THE PETER PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY AND FONDA, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, MONIQUE , PATRICIA EWAN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND FROM CONTRIBUTIONS TO OUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I AM BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER CRUCIAL CHANCE FOR AMERICA TO NEGOTIATE AND PUT AN END TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE.

STEVE WITKOFF IS MEETING WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN IN MOSCOW, PRESENTING A PROPOSAL THAT WAS REVAMPED AFTER TALKS INVOLVING THE WHITE HOUSE AND UKRAINE.

AHEAD OF THE MEETING, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IT MADE ONE FINAL PUSH FOR DIPLOMACY DURING A STATE VISIT TO IRELAND.

>> AMERICA IS TAKING SERIOUS STEPS TO END THIS WAR ONE WAY OR ANOTHER AND I'M SURE THAT THIS IS OUR COMMON TASK FOR EVERYONE IN EUROPE, IS TO REALLY END THEIR WAR, NOT JUST TO GET TO A PAUSE IN THE FIGHTING.

WE NEED TO [ INAUDIBLE ], AND FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, EVERYONE MUST BE ON THE SIDE OF PEACE, EVERYONE IN EUROPE AND ALL NATIONS THAT VALUE PIECE.

>> THE NOW, IT COMES AS THE KREMLIN CLAIMS TO HAVE CAPTURED THE EASTERN CITY AFTER AN 18 MONTH STRUGGLE THAT HAS SEEN ITS POPULATION DECIMATED AND MUCH OF ITS INFRASTRUCTURE DESTROYED BUT IF TRUE, IT WOULD BE THE BIGGEST GAIN FOR MOSCOW IN ALMOST TWO YEARS.

KYIV HAS DISMISSED THE CLAIM, BUT THE MESSAGE FROM THE KREMLIN IS CLEAR, TRY TO CONVINCE THE WORLD THAT RUSSIA IS WINNING.

> >> IN ADDITION TO THIS, AN INVESTIGATION BY THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ALLEGES THE WHITE HOUSE MAY BE PRIORITIZING BUSINESS INTEREST RUSSIA OVER A JUST PEACE FOR UKRAINE.

SO, LET'S DIG INTO THIS FURTHER WITH THE CHIEF OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

SO, JARED KUSHNER AND STEVE WITKOFF, THE PRESIDENT'S ENVOY OUR MEETING WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN IN MOSCOW RIGHT NOW.

AS WE NOTED, THIS IS A REVISED U. S. PEACE PROPOSAL THAT INITIALLY WAS HEAVILY FLAKE -- FAVORED TOWARDS RUSSIA.

RUSSIA IS STILL SAYING AND HOLDING ONTO ITS MAXIMALIST DEMANDS HERE AND SAYING THEY MUST BE MET.

THE KEY OF MEANTIME IS SAYING THAT IT'S SOVEREIGNTY, IT'S A SECURITY, AND ITS TERRITORY ARE NONNEGOTIABLE.

DO YOU SEE ANY REALISTIC WORLD IN WHICH THESE OPPOSING DEMANDS CAN SOMEHOW MEET IN THE MIDDLE?

>> IT'S VERY HARD TO IMAGINE THAT, BECAUSE THE DEMANDS THAT RUSSIA HAS ARE THE DEMANDS FOR A COUNTRY THAT WAS VANQUISHED IN WAR.

AND WHILE UKRAINE IS NOT WINNING THE WAR, IT HASN'T LOST THE WAR YET.

RUSSIA, AS YOU ALREADY SAID, TOOK THE CITY , BUT FOR MANY MONTHS OF FIGHTING, IT WAS AT A TREMENDOUS COST, AND THE SPEED OF RUSSIA ADVANCES IS VERY SLOW AND COMES AT A STEEP PRICE IN THE LIVES OF RUSSIAN SOLDIERS AND RUSSIAN EQUIPMENT.

I THINK AS FAR AS UKRAINE IS CONCERNED, THEIR BIGGEST WORRY IS THEY CANNOT SIGN A DEAL THAT WOULD JUST ALLOW RUSSIA TO REARM AND THAT WOULD PUT THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY IN A WORSE POSITION, AND WILL JUST LEAD TO THE THIRD ROUND OF THIS WAR, WHICH IF WE ALL REMEMBER, BEGAN IN 2014 AFTER THERE WAS ALSO A PEACE DEAL SIGNED.

AFTER THAT, A LOT OF FIGHTING, BUT THE RUSSIANS [ INAUDIBLE ], AND THE CONSENSUS IN UKRAINE IS THAT THE RUSSIANS STILL CONSIDER THAT THEIR ULTIMATE GOAL IN THIS WAR , WHICH IS THE ELIMINATION OF THE UKRAINIAN STATEHOOD, THE ELIMINATION OF UKRAINE AS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY, HAS NOT BEEN MET POINT >> WE ALSO KNOW THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS LAID OUT HIS DEMANDS BACK IN 2022, RIGHT BEFORE THIS INVASION, AND REALLY HASN'T BUDGED IN NEARLY FOUR YEARS.

THERE ARE STRESSES ON THE COUNTRY AS WELL, ECONOMICALLY, DEMOGRAPHICALLY, THEY HAVE ALSO LOST A LOT OF MEN FIGHTING IN THIS WAR AS WELL.

DO YOU SEE ANY CHANGE IN VLADIMIR PUTIN IN TERMS OF HIS POSTURE HERE THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE ARE AT LEAST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THIS WAR?

>> NOT REALLY, NO.

I MEAN, PRESIDENT PUTIN STILL BANKS ON A TOTAL VICTORY OF THIS WAR, AND NOW THAT THE U. S. HAS STOPPED FUNDING THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY AND THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT, THE U. S. IS REALLY PUTTING MORE AND MORE PRESSURE DIPLOMATICALLY ON KYIV TO ACQUIESCE TO RUSSIAN DEMANDS.

I THINK HE SEES THIS VICTORY IN SIGHT.

THE PROBLEM IS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS VERY LITTLE ROOM FOR MANEUVER HERE WHEN IT COMES TO HIS OWN PEOPLE, BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW MUCH PRESSURE HE RECEIVES INTERNATIONALLY, THE UKRAINIANS ARE JUST NOT READY TO SIGN AWAY THEIR COUNTRY TO [ INAUDIBLE ] BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED.

>> AND IT'S NOTABLE THAT SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS RETURNED TO OFFICE, WHAT THEY HAVE VIEWED AS A CARROT TO DANGLE IN FRONT OF VLADIMIR PUTIN WAS ALL ABOUT BUSINESS DEALS AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES, ESPECIALLY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA, ONCE THIS WAR COMES TO AN END.

AND VLADIMIR PUTIN'S APPROACH, WE KNOW, FOR THESE FOUR YEARS, HAS LARGELY BEEN IDEOLOGICAL.

SO, I'M WONDERING, IN TERMS OF THAT PIECE THAT I REFERENCED IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL THAT WAS WRITTEN OVER THE WEEKEND, ENTITLED "MAKE MONEY, NOT WAR ," GRACIE TRUMPS A REAL PLAN FOR UKRAINE, SHOWING HOW ECONOMIC [ INAUDIBLE ], ACCESS TO FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS, THEY HAVE ALL BECOME CENTER TO THIS AND CENTRAL TO THESE PEACE TALKS.

HOW IS THAT APPROACH BEING RECEIVED IN RUSSIA?

>> WELL YOU KNOW, THIS IS REALLY THE RUSSIAN APPROACH.

THE CARROT IS BEING DANGLED IN FRONT OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND BUSINESS PEOPLE CLOSE TO TRUMP AND THE TRUMP FAMILY.

IT'S THE MONEY THAT RUSSIA IS WILLING TO PAY , TO FUND, TO ALLOW TO BE USED TO BUY UKRAINE ESSENTIALLY.

AND TO BUY AMERICAN SUPPORT .

AND IN THIS VISION, UKRAINE IS AN OBSTACLE TO THIS WONDERFUL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY THAT SOME PEOPLE IN THE U. S. AND RUSSIA CAN LOOK FORWARD TO IN THE FUTURE.

AND I THINK THAT IS THE REASON WHY THE CHIEF NEGOTIATOR ON THE RUSSIANS DIED IN THIS WAS THE MAIN FINANCIER OF THE RUSSIAN STATE, IF YOU WILL.

HE IS A GOLDMAN SACHS ALUMNI.

[ INAUDIBLE ] THIS LANGUAGE OF BUSINESS AND HOW TO SPIN THESE OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE WHO ARE QUITE DRAWN TO THEM.

>> HE HAD BEEN SANCTIONED BY THE U. S. , THOSE SANCTIONS HAD TO BE SPECIALLY WAVERED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR HIM TO RETURN FOR THESE TALKS RECENTLY, AND WE SHOULD NOTE ABOUT THE POLISH PRIME MINISTER DONALD AFTER THIS PIECE WAS WRITTEN AND PUBLISHED, PUT IT BLUNTLY, SAYING THIS IS NOT ABOUT PEACE, THIS IS ABOUT BUSINESS.

I DO WONDER ABOUT THE STRESSES NOW BEING PUT ON U. S. RELATIONS WITH EUROPE AS A WHOLE AND THE EUROPEAN ALLIANCE.

IT'S SORT OF A SPLIT SCREEN THAT WE HAVE SEEN UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS IN FLORIDA MEETING WITH SECRETARY RUBIO WHERE YOU HAVE GOT YOUR OFFICIALS MEETING BOTH IN FRANCE WITH ZELENSKYY AND NOW IN IRELAND AS WELL.

HOW ARE EUROPEANS VIEWING WHAT APPEARS TO BE MORE AND MORE OF A SPLIT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE AND THEIR APPROACH TO BRINGING THIS WAR TO AN END?

>> THE EUROPEANS VIEW THIS WAR AS A WAR THAT IS EXISTENTIAL FOR EUROPE'S OWN SECURITY.

AND JUST TODAY, PUTIN SAID THAT HE IS READY TO WAGE WAR IN EUROPE IF NECESSARY, TODAY.

AND I THINK THE SAME CONCERN THE UKRAINIANS HAVE FOR RUSH AND JUST PIECE WILL ALLOW RUSSIA TO UNARMED QUICKLY AND HAVE ANOTHER GO WITH UKRAINE , WHILE THEY SHARE THE CONCERN BECAUSE THEY ALSO FEAR THAT IF RUSSIA SUCCEEDS WITH THIS AGO AT UKRAINE, THEN COUNTRIES LIKE POLAND MAYBE NEXT, AND THERE ARE GROWING AND GROWING DOUBTS IN EUROPE ABOUT WHETHER THE UNITED STATES WILL COME TO THEIR RESCUE AND WILL ACTUALLY HONOR ITS COMMITMENTS UNDER ARTICLE 5 OF THE NATO CHARTER.

>> AND ALL OF THIS COMES, AS YOU HAVE NOTED, MORE AND MORE PRESSURE INTERNALLY ON PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY, I WOULD SAY ON TWO FRONTS.

ONE, NOT TO BE FORCED TO ACCEPT THIS DEAL, WHICH LARGELY LOOKS LIKE IT FAVORS RUSSIA OVER UKRAINE, BUT ALSO POLITICALLY, HE HAS BEEN WEAKENED AND CHALLENGED OVER THE CORRUPTION SCANDAL THAT MOST RECENTLY SAW THE DEPARTURE AND RESIGNATION OF HIS CHIEF OF STAFF, HIS TOP ADVISER ON FRIDAY.

WHERE DO THINGS STAND RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF HIS SECURITY AND HIS SUPPORT IN THE COUNTRY, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY, I MEAN?

>> I THINK WE ARE ON TWO REALLY SEPARATE TRUCKS, AND I THINK THE MISTAKE THAT WAS MADE FOR SOME AMERICAN NEGOTIATORS WAS TO PRESUME THAT JUST BECAUSE ZELENSKYY IS WEAKENED BY THIS VERY REAL CORRUPTION SCANDAL AT HOME, HE WILL BE SOMEHOW MORE PLIABLE AND MAKE CONCESSIONS AND BE FORCED INTO AGREEMENTS THEN GO AGAINST UKRAINE'S NATIONAL INTEREST, AND I THINK QUITE THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

JUST BECAUSE HE IS SO WEAK, HE CANNOT GO AGAINST THE PUBLIC OPINION IN UKRAINE, AND THE PUBLIC OPINION IS VERY MUCH AGAINST SURRENDERING TO RUSSIA AT THIS STAGE, AND I THINK THERE IS A VERY SERIOUS RISK , SOME PEOPLE IN UKRAINE SAY, THAT IF HE WERE TO SIGN AWAY TERRITORIES AND AGREE TO A LITERAL WITHDRAWAL FROM KEY TERRITORIES IN UKRAINE, THE [ INAUDIBLE ] WOULD NOT FOLLOW ORDERS.

>> YAH, AND AS WE ARE HEARING FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TODAY IN IRELAND, ONCE AGAIN, REITERATED HIS SUPPORT AND HOPE FOR THE U. S. AID AND ASSISTANCE HERE, AND COMING TO A PEACE AGREEMENT THAT ALSO WILL UPHOLD UKRAINE'S SOVEREIGNTY , TERRITORY, AND SECURITY, HE SAID THAT HE IS AFRAID THAT THE U. S. MIGHT LOSE INTEREST IN THE PROCESS, SO A REAL HONEST MOMENT THERE FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AS VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS LONG EMBEDDED THAT HE COULD JUST OUT WEIGHT THIS WAR AT WHATEVER COST THAT MEANS FOR HIM DOMESTICALLY AS WELL.

YAROSLAV TROFIMOV, IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.

> >> AS THEIR FUTURE IS BEING DISCUSSED IN MOSCOW, THE PEOPLE IN UKRAINE CONTINUE TO FEEL THE FULL FORCE OF RUSSIAN ATTACKS.

FOUR PEOPLE WERE KILLED AND 40 WOUNDED INSECTS IN THE EASTERN CITY ON MONDAY.

ANOTHER DEVASTATING CHAPTER IN ALMOST FOUR YEARS OF WAR.

AND AS THE NATION BRACES FOR A TOUGH WINTER AHEAD, HOPE IS DIMINISHING EVERY DAY.

LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO TWO VICTIMS OF A RECENT ATTACK ON KYIV.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> THIS IS INTIMIDATION BY RUSSIA, THE ATTACKS ARE TARGETING THE CIVILIAN POPULATION IN ORDER FOR KYIV AND THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE A DECISION FASTER, TO SIGN THE AGREEMENT FASTER.

>> [ SPEAKING IN A NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE ] >> Translator: PIECE, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE WILL BE PEACE ANYTIME SOON BUT WITH SUCH NEIGHBORS, I DOUBT THERE WILL BE PEACE ANYTIME SOON.

IT IS GETTING WORSE AND WORSE.

IT IS GETTING WORSE EVERY DAY.

>> AND IT'S ONLY GETTING COLDER AS WELL.

ANDRE IS ONE OF UKRAINE'S MOST ACCLAIMED NOVELISTS.

BUT WHEN MOSCOW ATTACKED, HE SWITCHED GEARS TO CHRONICLE THE BLEAK REALITY FACING HIS PEOPLE, AND NOW HE IS RELEASING THE THIRD VOLUME OF HIS WAR DIARY, THREE YEARS ON FIRE : THE DESTRUCTION OF UKRAINE, AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW.

YOUR RECENT BOOK, THREE YEARS OF FIRE CHRONICLES THIS THIRD YEAR THAT HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED BY THE WAR.

I WOULD LIKE TO READ AN EXCERPT FROM YOUR BOOK ABOUT THE WAY THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE HAVE HAD TO ADJUST TO THIS NEW REALITY AND LIFESTYLE.

YOU'RE RIGHT, WE ADOPT OUR HABITS AND LIFESTYLE TO THE WARTIME SITUATION, WE KNOW WHERE THE NEAREST BOMB SHELTERS ARE, WE GO TO RESTAURANTS AND CAFES, WE ARE IN A HURRY TO GET EVEN A TINY DOSE OF PLEASURE AND HAPPINESS.

TOMORROW, THE RESTAURANT MAY NO LONGER EXIST.

FROM YOUR TRAVELS AND ENCOUNTERS, WHAT MOMENTS IN DOCUMENTING THE THIRD YEAR OF THE WAR STOOD OUT TO YOU MOST?

>> WELL, IT'S TYPICAL JUST TO SINGLE OUT ONE STORY, BECAUSE THE BEGINNING OF THE MOSCOW INVASION WAS PROBABLY THE MOST DRAMATIC FOR MY FAMILIES EXPERIENCE, AND I REMEMBER THE FIRST WEEKS IN EVERY DETAIL.

IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 2024, IT'S LIKE ROUTINE, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE DAILY AND NIGHTLY BOMBING , SHELLINGS, EXPLOSIONS, DRONES OVER OUR BLOCK OF FLATS.

NEWS FROM THE FRIENDS WHO LOST THEIR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES.

OUR FRIEND AND ACTUALLY ALMOST A NEIGHBOR, IRENA, WHO LOST HER WINDOWS AND DOORS AND PART OF HER ROOF, WHEN A MISSILE EXPLODED 100 METERS FROM HER HOUSE.

BUT ALSO, LOTS OF OTHER STORIES, STORIES OF REFUGEES, STORIES OF REFUGEES COMING ACTUALLY FROM [ INAUDIBLE ] REGION, WHO ARE NOW SETTLED IN DIFFERENT WESTERN REGIONS OF UKRAINE AND THEY ARE COMING TO KYIV TO MEET UP EVERY MONTH AND GO TO A CAFE, GO TO A THEATER TOGETHER, AND ACTUALLY VISITS TO THEATERS ARE VERY DIFFICULT NOW BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BUY TICKETS TWO OR THREE MONTHS IN ADVANCE, ALL THE TICKETS ARE SOLD OUT.

PEOPLE ARE ESCAPING FROM THE REALITY TO THE THEATER, KNOWING THAT ACTUALLY IF THE ALERT SOUNDS AND THE PERFORMANCES INTERRUPTED FOR MORE THAN 40 MINUTES, IT IS CANCELED AND THE TICKETS ARE VALID FOR THE NEXT DAY.

SO, I MEAN, THIS IS THE LIFE NOW.

>> THIS IS THE LIFE, AND I THINK BACK TO FEBRUARY 2022, RIGHT BEFORE THAT INVASION WHERE U. S. INTELLIGENCE FOR THE FIRST TIME WAS SHARING PUBLICLY, HOPING TO PREVENT RUSSIA'S FULL-SCALE INVASION FROM HAPPENING WITH THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY, AND NO ONE SEEMED TO BELIEVE IT, IT WAS JUST TOO SHOCKING TO IMAGINE.

AND I REMEMBER READING REPORTS FROM PEOPLE SITTING AT CAFES, AT MOVIE THEATERS, AT PLANS, PROBABLY SOME OF THE LOCATIONS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, WHO SAID NO ONE HERE IS SHOCKED, NO ONE HERE IS WORRIED, THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN IN 2022, AND GET HERE WE ARE, NEARLY FOUR YEARS LATER, AND WITH NEARLY 4 MILLION UKRAINIANS DISPLACED, HAVING LEFT THE COUNTRY TO OTHER PARTS OF EUROPE WITH THEIR FAMILIES AS WELL, THIS IS ALSO A CONCERN FOR THE FUTURE AND THE HEALTH ECONOMICALLY AND DEMOGRAPHICALLY FOR THE COUNTRY, BECAUSE THE HOPE IS THAT THESE PEOPLE WILL COME BACK, BUT THE LONGER THAT THERE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, THE CHANCES OF THEM COMING BACK START TO DIMINISH.

YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HERSELF AS ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES TO STILL LIVE IN YOUR HOME.

WAS THERE EVER A MOMENT WHERE YOU CONSIDERED LEAVING WITH YOUR FAMILY.

>> WE LEFT FOR FOUR MONTHS IN THE BEGINNING OF THE FULL-SCALE INVASION, WE WENT TO THE BORDER OF SLOVAKIA.

AND THEN WE SPENT TWO MONTHS IN FRANCE, AND THEN WE RETURNED, BUT WE NEVER CONSIDERED TO MOVE FOR A GOOD OR TO BECOME REFUGEES.

AND ACTUALLY, THE STORY IS NOW FROM EUROPE, STORIES OF UKRAINIAN REFUGEES, ARE VERY WORRYING, BECAUSE I MEAN LIKE YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY, UKRAINIAN REFUGEES FOUND A HOMELESS UKRAINIAN CHILD OF FOUR YEARS, HE DOESN'T KNOW WHERE IS HIS PARENTS.

AND ACTUALLY, SOMEBODY POSTED HIS PHOTO ON FACEBOOK , ASKING IF ANYBODY KNOWS THE RELATIVES OR THE PARENTS OF THIS BOY.

THERE ARE NEW UKRAINIAN REFUGEES HOMELESS IN THE STATES AND MANY COUNTRIES IN EUROPE ARE CLOSING DOWN THEIR PROGRAMS OF HELP FOR REFUGEES.

IN FRANCE, IT IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE DIFFICULT TO GET A SOCIAL APARTMENT, ESPECIALLY IN THE REGION OF BORDEAUX WHERE THEY ORIGINALLY WENT.

>> AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU DESCRIBE RUSSIA'S DESTRUCTION OF UKRAINIAN CULTURAL MONUMENTS AS AN AXE CHOPPING AWAY AT OUR ROOTS.

JUST TALK ABOUT EVEN FOR THOSE UKRAINIANS THAT HAVE STATED TO BE WITNESS TO THIS, TO WATCH RUSSIA ATTEMPTED TO RACE ITS OWN HERITAGE, ITS OWN HISTORY, ITS OWN CULTURE , AGAIN, IN 2025, IN THE MODERN ERA.

>> WELL, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE THAT WE ALL SEE IT AND THIS IS A REALITY.

ONE SUDDENLY PLUNGED INTO THE PAST AND THE MIDDLE AGES AND DECIDED TO DESTROY COUNTRY NEXT DOOR.

I MEAN, IF WE TALK ABOUT THE SECOND LEVEL OF THIS WAR, THIS IS DEFINITELY A WAR AGAINST UKRAINIAN NATIONAL IDENTITY, BECAUSE IDENTITY IS MADE OF LANGUAGE, CULTURE, AND HISTORY, AND THESE ARE THE HISTORIC MONUMENTS THAT ARE DESTROYED, THEATERS, LIBRARIES, UNIVERSITIES.

I THINK WE ARE TALKING NOW ABOUT ALMOST 800 LIBRARIES IN UKRAINE EITHER DESTROYED OR DAMAGED.

>> AND YOU --I HAVE TO SAY FOR MYSELF AS WELL GROWING UP, I MEAN, I MOVED TO THE U. S. AS A BABY WITH MY PARENTS FROM MOLDOVA WHICH WAS THEN PART OF THE SOVIET UNION IN 1980, I GREW UP SPEAKING RUSSIAN AT HOME, THAT WAS MY MOTHER TONGUE IN ADDITION TO ENGLISH.

RUSSIAN, I KNOW IS YOUR MOTHER TONGUE AS WELL, AND YOU HAVE CONTINUED TO WRITE FICTION IN RUSSIAN AND NONFICTION IN RUSSIAN, UKRAINIAN, AND ENGLISH.

I WONDER WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND AS YOU ARE ADVOCATING FOR UKRAINE, UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY, UKRAINE'S INDEPENDENCE OBVIOUSLY AS ITS OWN NATION.

DO YOU AT TIMES FEEL GUILTY FOR SPEAKING RUSSIAN?

>> I FELT GUILTY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FULL-SCALE INVASION, PROBABLY IS ANYBODY WHO SPOKE RUSSIAN ON THE STREET, SUDDENLY YOU FELT UNCOMFORTABLE.

YOU FELT LIKE YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLES.

BUT OF COURSE, I MEAN, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FULL-SCALE INVASION, LOTS OF RUSSIAN SPEAKERS BECAME BILINGUAL OR STARTED SPEAKING UKRAINIAN OR SORT OF FORCED THEMSELVES TO -- NOT TO SPEAK RUSSIAN , SO THEY WERE TRYING TO THINK IN UKRAINIAN.

IN THIS [ INAUDIBLE ] IS GOING ON ACTUALLY, AND I THINK RUSSIAN LANGUAGE COMMUNITY WILL BE VERY SMALL AFTER THE END OF THE WAR, BECAUSE HALF OF RUSSIAN SPEAKERS BECAME REFUGEES.

I MEAN, I MET LOTS OF PEOPLE FROM SOUTH OF UKRAINE, RUSSIAN SPEAKERS WHO ARE NOW LEARNING GERMAN, LEARNING POLISH, SPEAKING ITALIAN, AND NOT THINKING ABOUT GOING BACK.

>> RIGHT.

RUSSIAN WAS SPOKEN ALSO IN THE CITY OF [ INAUDIBLE ], NOT JUST ALL ON THE EASTERN BORDER THERE.

AND NOW YOU SEE AFTER FOUR YEARS OF WAR.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, ON THE BORDER WITH HUNGARY, WITH MOLDOVA, I MEAN, THERE ARE LOTS OF LANGUAGES SPOKEN, INCLUDING RUSSIAN, HUNGARIAN, AND POLISH, AND PROBABLY PEOPLE STILL SPEAK THAT, BECAUSE IN THAT REGION, PEOPLE SPEAK BULGARIAN , SPEAK [ INAUDIBLE ] IN RUSSIAN.

THIS IS WHAT REMAINS [ INAUDIBLE ].

MY COUNTRY, AND OF COURSE, MY COUNTRY, UKRAINE, IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY MOTHER TONGUE, AND I ACCEPTED THAT I DON'T WANT NOW TO HAVE MY BOOKS ESPECIALLY DURING THE WAR TO BE PUBLISHED IN RUSSIAN UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE.

NOT [ INAUDIBLE ], FOR PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT ABOUT THE LANGUAGE, BUT IT IS ABOUT EXISTENCE OF THE COUNTRY, WHERE [ INAUDIBLE ] THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE.

>> WELL, ANDREY, NO MATTER WHAT LANGUAGE YOU WRITE YOUR BOOKS IN, IT IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE A UKRAINIAN, THAT YOU ARE FIGHTING AND SUPPORTING YOUR COUNTRY, AND HOPEFULLY IN WHATEVER LANGUAGE OR COUNTRY THAT IS BEING READ IN AND AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE ARE LEARNING SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT FROM YOU ABOUT THE RESILIENCE OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

ANDREY KURKOV, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME, REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

> >> NOW, AT LEAST 70 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS HAVE HAPPENED ACROSS THE UNITED STATES THIS YEAR, UNBELIEVABLE.

IT IS THE STORY THAT MOST AMERICANS KNOW ALL TOO WELL, SADLY.

WITH EACH INCIDENT AS DISTURBING AND TRAUMATIC AS THE LAST, FEELING INCREASINGLY DESENSITIZED TO THESE HARROWING HEADLINES, STEVE HARTMAN CHANNELED HIS FRUSTRATION INTO THIS POWERFUL NEW DOCUMENTARY, "ALL THE EMPTY WOUNDS," EXPLORING THE GRIEF, LOSS, AND EXPERIENCE OF FAMILIES AND YOUNG VICTIMS THROUGH THE BEDROOMS THEY LEAVE BEHIND.

>> HER ROOM --THAT WAS HER SAFE PLACE.

>> BRIAN LOST HIS DAUGHTER GRACIE IN THE 2019 SAGA HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING AND HE JOINS STEVE HARTMAN AND HARI SREENIVASAN TO TALK ABOUT THIS PAINFUL YET MOVING PORTRAIT OF AMERICA.

>> BIANNA, THANKS, STEVE HARTMAN, BRIAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

STEVE, LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT ON THE SIDE OF YOUR DAY JOB, AND I GUESS YOU HAVE BEEN TO SO MANY OF THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, THE STORIES, THE WEEK AFTER, WHY THIS PROJECT?

>> THIS PROJECT WAS BORN OUT OF THE KIND OF FRUSTRATION THAT I FELT THE COUNTRY WAS GROWING NUMB TO THE SCHOOL SHOOTING EPIDEMIC, AND I WAS GROWING NUMB, YOU KNOW, IF I CAN BE REALLY HONEST, I GUESS I CAN SAY THAT I JUST DIDN'T CARE AS MUCH AS I ONCE DID.

THERE WOULD BE A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND IT WOULD MAKE NEWS FOR A LITTLE WHILE, AND EVERYBODY WAS MOVING ON, AND I DIDN'T LIKE SEEING THAT IN MYSELF, AND I DIDN'T LIKE SEEING IT IN THE COUNTRY, SO I STARTED THINKING, WHAT CAN I POSSIBLY DO TO SHAKE PEOPLE OUT OF THAT NUMBNESS?

AND THIS PROJECT WAS BORN FROM THAT FEELING.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF YOU FELT THIS AS A REPORTER, BUT I REMEMBER BEING IN THE LIVING ROOMS AFTER THE NEW TOWN TRAGEDY OF THE PARENTS, AND IT WAS SO DEVASTATING, AND I THOUGHT FOR SURE THAT WAS GOING TO BE AT, THAT'S THE END, THERE COULDN'T BE ANYTHING MORE TRAGIC THAN ALL THESE CHILDREN THAT WERE GUNNED DOWN.

OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE LEGISLATION, WE ARE GOING TO STOP THIS.

BUT AS THE STATISTICS IN YOUR FILM POINT OUT, IT HASN'T STOPPED.

>> KNOW.

I DON'T THINK I EVER REALLY THOUGHT THAT.

I KNOW THAT THAT WAS KIND OF THE MOOD IN THE COUNTRY FOR MAYBE A FEW MONTHS AFTERWARDS, BUT YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE DEBATE, THE GUN DEBATE AND ALL THE ARGUMENTS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T LED US ANYWHERE.

I THINK SANDY HOOK IS PROOF OF THAT AND THE STATISTICS ARE PROOF OF THAT, AND I AM HOPING THAT THIS FILM CAN SERVE AS KIND OF A NEW BEGINNING, A FRESH START, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE CAN'T BEGIN TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, I DON'T THINK, UNTIL WE FULLY FEEL THE WEIGHT OF IT.

AND THIS FILM DEFINITELY LETS PEOPLE FEEL THE WEIGHT OF IT, AND I HOPE PEOPLE WATCH IT WITH AN OPEN MIND, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BEING LECTURED ABOUT GUNS OR WHATEVER THE SOLUTION IS, IT'S JUST LET'S START BACK AT THE BEGINNING AND LET'S CARE AGAIN, LET'S START WITH EMPATHY.

>> THE BRIAN, YOUR DAUGHTER GRACIE WAS KILLED AT THE SAUGUS HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTINGS BACK IN NOVEMBER 2019, AND YOU WERE ONE OF THE PARENTS THAT SHARED THEIR STORIES AND ALLOWED STEVE TO JUST LITERALLY BE IN HER ROOM.

TELL US, I GUESS, OUR AUDIENCE, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GRACIE.

>> YEAH, GRACIE WAS OUR YOUNGEST DAUGHTER.

SO, WE HAD TWO BOYS AND THEN GRACIE.

SHE WAS A VIVACIOUS, FUNNY, JUST A LIFE OF THE PARTY TYPE OF LITTLE GIRL.

I MEAN, EVER SINCE SHE WAS LITTLE, SHE HAD A CAMERA PHONE IN HER HAND OR A CAMERA SOME SORT, WHO IS FILMING HERSELF AND ENTERTAINING.

AND AS SHE GOT OLDER, SHE CONTINUED DOING THAT, AND SHE JUST LIVED LIFE TO ITS FULLEST.

>> HI.

>> SHE WAS THE LIFE OF THE PARTY, SHE BROUGHT A LOT OF JOY TO US, I FEEL LIKE SHE WAS A GIFT FROM GOD, TELLING US WHAT TRUE JOY LOOK LIKE, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE REPRESENTED FOR US.

>> I GUESS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL WONDER IS WHY DID YOU KEEP HER ROOM THE SAME WAY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE FIRST PLACE WE WENT TO WHEN WE GOT HOME FROM THE HOSPITAL THAT MORNING, AND IT WAS A PLACE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS AFTER.

IT STARTED SYMBOLIZING, YOU KNOW, THE LIFE IT WAS , IN SO MANY WAYS, IT WAS A PLACE WHERE WE WENT TO FEEL GRACIE'S PRESENCE IN SO MANY WAYS.

IT HAD HER PERSONALITY, YOU KNOW, PEPPERED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PLACE.

YOU KNOW, AS THE YEARS WENT ON, WE CLEANED IT UP AND STRAIGHTENED IT UP AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT WAS QUITE A DISASTER THE DAY OF, LIKE ANY TEENAGER BROOM MIGHT BE.

CLOSE DRAWN EVERYWHERE, ALL THE 17 OUTFITS SHE MIGHT HAVE TRIED ON THAT WEEK, PLANNING FOR HER WEEKEND AND SO FORTH, BUT IT WAS A PLACE OF PEACE, A PLACE OF SOLACE WHERE WE COULD GO AND JUST FEEL HER PRESENCE AND BE WITH HER, YOU KNOW?

FOR SO MANY --UP UNTIL WE RECENTLY MOVED, MY WIFE EVERY MORNING WOULD OPEN HER DOOR, GRACIE'S DOOR, AND SAY GOOD MORNING, SWEETIE.

AND EVERY NIGHT, TELL HER GOOD NIGHT AND CLOSE THE DOOR.

AS IF SHE WAS STILL THERE IN SO MANY WAYS.

SO, IT WAS JUST A WELCOME OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE STEVE AND THEM EXPERIENCE SOME OF THAT WITH US.

>> STEVE, YOU HAVE NOW HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND IN THESE PLACES.

FOR SOMEONE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE EVER DONE THAT, GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT THAT IS LIKE, WHAT KIND OF EMOTIONS HIT YOU.

>> WELL, THE ROOMS MANY TIMES JUST THERE FROZEN IN TIME IN THEIR LITTLE DETAILS, THEIR LITTLE DETAILS THAT STAND OUT THAT SHOW JUST HOW QUICKLY THAT LIFE WAS EXTINGUISHED.

A LOT OF TASKS LEFT UNDONE.

LIKE THE TOOTHPASTE TUBE WITH THE CAP STILL OFF.

YOU KNOW, HOMEWORK STREWN ON THE FLOOR.

I WILL PICK THAT UP LATER, I WILL DO THAT LATER, AND LATER NEVER CAME.

SO, FOR ME, YOU KNOW, STANDING IN THE ROOMS JUST REMINDS ME OF HOW QUICKLY THE LIFE WAS TAKEN , AND ALSO ALLOWS --FOR SOME REASON, I SEE MY OWN KIDS AND ALL THESE ROOMS, BECAUSE THERE IS A SAMENESS TO THEM IN THE SOMETIMES THE SAME LITTLE TRINKETS THAT THEY COLLECT ARE IN MY KIDS' ROOMS.

AND I THINK WHAT SETS THE FILM APART IS THAT , YOU KNOW, YOU SHOW THE PICTURE OF A BEAUTIFUL CHILD THAT WAS KILLED IN A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND YOU CAN EASILY DISMISS, THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S CHILD, THAT IS NOT ME.

BUT YOU LOOK AROUND THE ROOM AND I FEEL LIKE IT BECOMES YOUR KID 'S ROOM, AND I THINK MAYBE THAT IS PART OF THE REASON THAT THE FILM IS RESONATING AS DEEPLY AS IT IS, IS BECAUSE WE FINALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO PUT OURSELVES IN THOSE SHOES.

>> BRIAN, YOU KNOW, BEING KIND OF IN THIS WEIRD PLACE WHERE THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON YOU FOR MAYBE IT IS A DAY OR A WEEK, AND THEN YOU HAVE STEPHEN HARTMAN KIND OF REACHING OUT IN THIS VERY LONG-TERM PROJECT AND ASKING YOU, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO SAY YES?

>> YOU KNOW, IT WAS --WE WERE A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE AT FIRST.

WE RECEIVED THIS LETTER IN APRIL OF '24 AND CINDY AND I TALKED ABOUT IT AT LENGTH.

WE HAD A DESIRE IN OUR HEARTS TO MOVE OUT OF CALIFORNIA.

WE HAD BEEN WANTING TO MOVE FOR A WHILE, SINCE THE SHOOTING.

AND WE COULDN'T COME TO PEACE AND COME TO GRIPS WITH THINGS.

AND WE OFTEN FOUGHT LIKE HOW WOULD WE GO ABOUT THIS ?

WHAT WE FILM THE ROOM OURSELVES, GET A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER?

RE-CREATE IT?

WHERE DO WE LAND NEXT?

THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND IT WAS KIND OF A BLESSING FROM GOD AS MY WIFE ALWAYS SAYS, STEVE, YOU'RE AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN AND COMING INTO OUR LIFE AND GIVING US THIS OPPORTUNITY TO FILM HER ROOM AND TO GET REALLY INTIMATE WITH IT, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE THAT SACRED SPACE, REALLY GAVE US A SENSE OF PEACE.

SO, WHEN THEY CAME IN IN JUNE AND STARTED FILMING, WE JUST FELT THIS COMPLETE PEACE COME OVER US THAT WE JUST FELT LIKE THIS WAS MEANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO SHARE GRACIE'S ROOM WITH THE WORLD AND GRACIE'S PERSONALITY.

>> AND IF NOTHING ELSE COMES FROM THIS, BRIAN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ALL INVESTED A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO THIS FILM, AND IF NOTHING ELSE COMES FROM IT, THEN YOU GUYS BEING ABLE TO MOVE AND SET THE ROOM ASIDE , GOOD BY ME.

GOOD.

>> YEAH, YEAH, DEFINITELY MADE US FEEL THAT --YOU KNOW, I THINK I ASKED THE QUESTION IN THE DOCUMENTARY, YOU KNOW, IF THE ROOM GOES AWAY, DOES SHE GO AWAY?

AND WE CAN HONESTLY SAY, THAT IS NOT THE CASE, SHE DOES NOT GO AWAY WHEN THAT ROOM GOES AWAY.

SHE IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL IN OUR HEARTS AND THE FILM, YOU GET TO SEE HER PERSONALITY.

AND WE STILL EXPERIENCE HER EVERY SINGLE DAY OF OUR LIVES.

>> BRIAN, STEVE COMES WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER, BLUE, AND THEY TAKE PHOTOS.

ALMOST INTIMATE PORTRAITS OF THINGS THAT ARE IN GRACIE'S ROOM.

TELL US, IF YOU CAN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE MAYBE REVEALED IN THESE PHOTOS, IF YOU HAVE BEEN WALKING BY, BUT NOTICED IN A DIFFERENT WAY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, FOR ONE THING, YOU KNOW, I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A RESPONSIBLE AND RESPECTFUL INDIVIDUAL AS I SAW IN LOU, YOU KNOW, WALKING INTO THESE ROOMS.

I DIDN'T CATCH IT UNTIL THE MOVIE CAME OUT AND WE SAW THE PREMIER OF IT, AND YOU KNOW, HE WOULD TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF BEFORE HE WENT IN THERE, JUST HONOR THE SECRET PLACE OF THE ROOMS.

AND YOU KNOW, HE GOT IN THERE AND WE SHOWED HIM AROUND A LITTLE BIT, BUT THEN WE LEFT HIM TO BE, AND HE JUST SAT THERE AND LOOKED AT THE ROOM IN DIFFERENT ANGLES AND VIEWS AND GOT ON HIS BELLY AND LOOKED UNDER THE BED AND UNDERTHINGS AND TOOK LIGHT OF THINGS YOU PROBABLY DON'T CAPTURE, YOU KNOW, AS MUCH, WHEN YOU'RE JUST WALKING BY IT DAY IN AND DAY OUT, BECAUSE OF THE WAY HE PHOTOGRAPHS THINGS.

HE IS JUST AMAZING.

I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GOT GRACIE'S SHOES BACK THAT SHE WAS WEARING THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING, AND THEY SIT ON THE STAND WHERE HER CLOTHES AND OUTFITS WERE STILL HUNG UP FOR THAT WEEK, SHE STILL HAD TWO OUTFITS PICKED OUT FOR FRIDAY THAT WEEK, AND THE SHOES ARE ON THERE, AND HE TAKES A PICTURE OF THE SHOES AT SUCH AN ANGLE THAT I CAN SEE MOMENTS OF THAT DAY IN A VERY SURREAL WAY, THAT I NEVER NOTICED BEFORE.

AND THAT IS BECAUSE HE IS SO UP AND CLOSE WITH THE PHOTO.

HE CAPTURED THE PERSONALITY OF GRACIE THROUGHOUT, DEFINITELY.

YOU KNOW, THE TRINKETS SHE HAD IN HER DRAWER, THE NOTES SHE HAD TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND THE PILLOWS ON THE BED AND HER BIG , STUFFED DOG THAT SHE HAD THERE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> AND CAPTURING THAT PERSONALITY FOR ME -- AND I THINK THE FAMILIES, TOO, WAS REALLY FUN.

I MEAN, IT SEEMS STRANGE TO SAY THAT YOU'RE GOING INTO THIS -- THIS PLACE THAT SEEMS SO BITTERLY SAD, BUT THERE WERE LOTS, YOU KNOW.

I THINK ANYBODY WHO WOULD LOSE A CHILD UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, THEY WANT THE WORLD TO REMEMBER THEIR CHILD, AND THERE ARE USUALLY A LOT OF LAUGHS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT, SO WE ACTUALLY HAD A GOOD TIME AND IT WAS FUN TO LEARN ABOUT THE KIDS AND SHARE THEIR STORIES AND JUST DOING OUR PART TO MAKE SURE THESE KIDS ARE NOT FORGOTTEN.

>> STEVE, WHEN YOU DID THIS PROJECT THIS WAS NOT BLESSED BY CBS NEWS, YOU SAY IN THE DOCUMENTARY THAT YOU REALLY KIND OF KEPT IT HIDDEN FROM YOUR BOSSES UNTIL IT WAS PRETTY MUCH DONE, WHY?

>> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M THE FEEL-GOOD NEWS GUY.

I DO THE STORIES THAT COME AT THE END OF THE NEWSCAST THAT ARE MEANT TO RESTORE YOUR FAITH IN HUMANITY, SO THIS PROJECT WAS WAY OFF BRAND FOR ME BUT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE BETTER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAN PERMISSION KIND OF THINGS BUT >> THE SEEMS TO BE ALSO, AS YOU POINT OUT, A TENSION IN HOW YOU APPROACH THE JOB, THE ASSIGNMENTS THAT YOU WERE GIVEN, TO TRY TO FIND THE SILVER LINING AFTER A HORRIBLE WEEK AT THE END OF THE MASS SHOOTING, AND YOU JUST SAYING I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE.

>> YEAH.

FOR A WHILE, ANYTIME THERE WAS ANY MASS SHOOTING --BECAUSE MY STORIES, AT THE END OF THE CBS EVENING NEWS, AND WE WANT TO LEAVE PEOPLE ON A POSITIVE NOTE, SO I WAS TOLD TO FIND SOME POSITIVE ANGLE TO THIS SCHOOL SHOOTING.

AS CRAZY AS THAT SOUNDS GREAT AND THERE ARE THINGS, THERE ARE THE HERO, TEACHER, OR THE COMMUNITY COMING TOGETHER.

BUT JUST WITH THIS SUBJECT, I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE.

YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANYMORE SORT OF FEEL-GOOD STORIES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE SCHOOL SHOOTING.

I COULDN'T --I JUST COULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE, I HAD TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

>> BRIAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SHARE WITH STEVE IS A BOX WHERE YOU DISCOVERED THAT SHE SENT -- WROTE NOTES TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND WHAT DO THOSE NOTES MEAN TO YOU NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, THEY WERE -- THEY WERE INTERESTING TO FIND, TO SAY THE LEAST, WHEN WE FIRST FOUND THEM ORIGINALLY.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE KIND OF SURREAL, BECAUSE SHE IS WRITING LETTERS TO HER FUTURE SELF, AND SHE WROTE ONE, YOU KNOW, GRADUATING EIGHTH GRADE, STARTING HIGH SCHOOL, DRIVING, AND GOING OFF TO COLLEGE.

SHE WAS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH TWO OF THEM.

SO, WHEN YOU READ THE ONES THAT SHE DIDN'T GET TO ACCOMPLISH, YOU ARE A BIT SAD THAT SHE DIDN'T GET TO ENJOY THOSE EXPERIENCES IN LIFE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU SAW THAT SHE HAD THE WHEREWITHAL TO EVEN THINK ABOUT WRITING TO HER FUTURE SELF.

IN A SENSE, SHE IS ALMOST WRITING TO US.

THERE IS AN INTERESTING COMPONENT TO THAT POINT SHE SAID TO HERSELF, SHE WROTE A POEM AND I'VE GOT IT TATTOOED ON MY ARM NOW, YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE TO LIVE, SO WHY NOT LET IT GREAT AND FILL IT WITH MEMORIES AND EXPERIENCES?

AND THAT ACCOMPANIED LETTERS SHE WROTE TO HER FUTURE SELF.

SHE IS TELLING US HOW WE NEED TO EMBRACE LIFE AND LIVE GOING FORWARD, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE TAKE AWAY WE GOT FROM THAT, FOR SURE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS FASCINATING IS THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF HOW THIS SADNESS NOT JUST DEALS WITH --FOR THE PARENTS, BUT ALSO THE SIBLINGS.

WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE TOLERATING, BEARING THIS GRIEF WHILE YOU STILL HAVE TO BE A DAD TO KIDS WHO ARE ALSO GRIEVING, BUT KIDS WHO ARE TRYING TO PROCESS THIS AND THEY NEED THEIR MOM AND DAD FULL- TIME AS WELL?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT WAS SOMETHING .

I AM WORKING ON WRITING A BOOK RIGHT NOW AND KIND OF REFLECTING ON THE DAY OF THE SHOOTING AND THE DAYS AFTER.

I WAS TALKING TO HEATHER, WHO WAS SITTING NEXT TO A FRIEND OF MY WIFE'S AND SHE WAS RECALLING, SHE SAYS YOU IMMEDIATELY WENT FROM DOWN ON YOUR HANDS AND KNEES, CRYING, THE FATHER MODE.

YOU KNOW?

YOU'VE GOT TO NOW CONTACT YOUR BOYS, YOU'VE GOT TO START CALLING THE FAMILY MEMBERS AND TAKE ACTION.

SO, I THINK WE ARE JUST INNATELY WIRED TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT KEEPS ME GOING, YOU KNOW?

I AM SURE THIS IS HARD ON MANY FAMILIES WHEN THEY GO THROUGH A TRAGEDY LIKE THIS AND LOSING A CHILD, BUT I IMMEDIATELY JUST THOUGHT TO MYSELF, I HAVE GOT THESE TWO OTHER BOYS I GOT TO TAKE CARE OF, I HAVE GOT A WIFE WHO I NEED TO BE THERE FOR.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE DO EVERY DAY.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALWAYS REACHING OUT TO OUR BOYS, WE ARE SPREAD OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY NOW, AND THEY ARE DOING WELL, BUT THEY'RE STILL DEALING WITH IT AS WELL, JUST LIKE WE ARE.

>> STEVE, YOU WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE A COUPLE OF THE SIBLINGS AS WELL, AND YOU CAN SEE ON CAMERA HOW DEEPLY AFFECTED THE SIBLINGS ARE BY THIS.

ANTIOCH, THE FILMMAKER, JOSH, HE INTERVIEWED THE BOYS OF ONE OF THE FAMILIES, AND YOU KNOW, I WAS IN THE OTHER ROOM WHEN HE WAS DOING THE INTERVIEW, AND IT'S HARD TO LISTEN TO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, YOU HEAR OFTEN FROM THE GRIEVING PARENTS, BUT IT'S NOT OFTEN THAT YOU HEAR WHAT THIS WHOLE EXPERIENCE IS LIKE FOR THE SIBLINGS.

AND AGAIN, I JUST --I AM JUST WIRED TO SORT OF PUT MYSELF IN THOSE SHOES AND THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MY OTHER KIDS AND HOW DEVASTATED THEY WOULD BE .

SO, YEAH, THE FULFILLMENT IS FULL OF --YOU KNOW, IT'S EMOTIONAL, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE MORE EMOTIONAL MOMENTS IN THE FILM.

BUT THE FILM ALSO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE LAUGHS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE GIGGLES AT THINGS, AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, THROUGH IT ALL, I FEEL GREAT HOPE AT THE END OF THIS FILM.

I FEEL LIKE THAT WE CAN -- WE CAN FIND A BETTER WAY, AND I JUST FEEL LIKE MAYBE THIS MIGHT JUST BE THE BEGINNING, AND I CERTAINLY HOPE IT IS.

>> BRIAN, STEVE AND LOU GAVE YOU A BOOK OF PHOTOS, WHAT DID THAT POKE ME IN?

>> IT WAS THAT INVITATION THAT IT IS OKAY TO MOVE, IS WHAT IT WAS.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE GOT THAT TAKE AWAY NOW OF HER ROOM.

WITH AMAZING PHOTOGRAPHY AS YOU HAVE SEEN IN A FILM , THAT WE CAN LOOK AT ANYTIME WE WANT AND COME BACK TO THAT ROOM, SO THAT GAVE US THE INVITATION TO MOVE AWAY.

AND I WANTED TO ADD ONE THING, WHEN THEY HAD REACHED OUT ABOUT DOING THIS FILM, STEVE AND I HAD A CONVERSATION.

I GET CONTACTED A LOT.

AND A LOT OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH THE POLARIZING AND POLITICAL SIDE OF GUN VIOLENCE OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND WE TALKED ABOUT TWO THINGS IN PARTICULAR.

ONE IS WE DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER, THIS IS A HUMAN ISSUE WE HAVE GOT, ESPECIALLY IN OUR COUNTRY.

AND THE SECOND SIDE WAS WE REALLY WANTED TO DRAW THAT EMPATHY UP IN THE VIEWER.

WE WANTED THEM TO STEP INTO THE ROOMS, AS STEVE SAYS, AND FEEL SOME OF THAT PAIN THAT WE EXPERIENCE EVERY SINGLE DAY OF OUR LIVES, WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS MAYBE INSPIRES SOME CHANGE IN SOME WAY.

>> THIS FILM IS CALLED ALL THE EMPTY ROOMS, IT IS AVAILABLE NOW ON NETFLIX.

BRIAN BAN, STEVE HARTMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

> >> WE GO NOW TO IRAN AND THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF A PIONEERING WOMAN.

SHE HAS SPENT DECADES FIGHTING FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND MADE HISTORY AS THE COUNTRY'S FIRST WOMEN'S AFFAIRS MINISTER DURING THE 1970s.

SHE RECENTLY PUT A RUN AT THE FOREFRONT OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS GLOBALLY BY CREATING INITIATIVES FOR MOTHERS AND CHILD CARE.

BUT IN 1979, THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION UNDID IT ALL AND SHE FOUND HERSELF LIVING IN EXILE.

SINCE THEN, SHE HAS CAMPAIGNED FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS FROM ABROAD AND WAS RECENTLY RECOGNIZED FOR THIS WORK BY GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY.

AS PART OF THAT CELEBRATION, CHRISTIANE SPOKE WITH HER ABOUT HER EXTRAORDINARY LIFE AND CAREER, HERE IS PART OF THE CONVERSATION POINT >> YOU ARE A SPECIES, INDEED, A RARE BIRD, AN IRANIAN FEMINIST FROM 50 YEARS AGO OR MORE.

THE OBVIOUS QUESTION MANY WOMEN IN THE AUDIENCE WILL IDENTIFY WITH, BEING THE ONLY WOMAN IN THE ROOM, BEING THE ONLY FEMALE CABINET MEMBER AMONGST THE MEN, WHAT WAS THE REACTION FROM THOSE MEN AND FROM SOCIETY AT LARGE?

>> WELL, IT WAS STRANGE BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF TWO WOMEN IN THE WORLD WHO HAD THAT POSITION.

AND SHE HAD COME TO IRAN JUST A FEW MONTHS BEFORE AND SHE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WAS THIS BUSINESS OF A MINISTER OF WOMEN.

BUT THAT WAS THE DIFFICULT PART.

BUT THE GOOD PART WAS THAT WE WERE OPEN, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO WAY TO FOLLOW, THERE WAS NO PARTICULAR AGENDA .

SO, WE COULD GO AHEAD AND SEE WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO DO, AND WHAT IS THE BEST THING TO DO TURNED OUT TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE GOT FROM THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES, BECAUSE IN ORDER TO FIND OUT WHAT IS TO BE DONE, WE HAD TO GO TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF IRAN AND TALK TO PEOPLE IN FACTORIES, IN SCHOOLS, IN ALL SORTS OF AREAS TO SEE WHAT IT IS THAT THEY WANT.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL AND BECAME THE ACTUAL MOST IMPORTANT , BASICALLY, THINKING OF OUR WORK, THROUGHOUT THE YEARS.

NOT GOING WITH A PARTICULAR IDEA OR SET OF RULES TO PEOPLE, BUT TO GO AND SEE, WHAT IS IT THEY WANT, YOU KNOW, AND TO WORK WITH THAT DID NOT GO FROM THEORY TO ACTION.

BUT TO GO FROM ACTION TO THEORY.

AND THAT HELPED A GREAT DEAL.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK THE WAY YOU PUT IT IS YOU WENT FROM GRASSROOTS TO NATIONAL RATHER THAN FROM TOP-DOWN WHEN YOU WERE LEADING THE WOMEN'S ORGANIZATION OF IRAN.

SO, WHAT WERE YOU HEELING IN THE VILLAGES AND THE TOWNS, IN MOSQUES AND SCHOOLS AND CONSERVATIVE WOMEN'S HOUSEHOLDS, AND THE MORE EDUCATED, THE MORE URBAN WOMEN OF TEHRAN.

AND WHAT YOU WERE HEARING, DID YOU THINK THERE WAS A GENERAL CONSENSUS OR WERE SOME WOMEN, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY WANTING SOMETHING MUCH MORE PROGRESSIVE, OTHER WOMEN JUST WANTING THE BASIC RIGHT TO LEAVE THEIR HOUSE, WHAT WERE YOU HEARING?

>> WELL, THERE WERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF NEEDS IN DIFFERENT GROUPS.

BUT WE STARTED WITH THE ORDINARY PEOPLE, WITH THE GRASSROOTS.

AND FOR INSTANCE, MY WHOLE IDEA AT THE BEGINNING WAS LAW, THAT THE LAWS HAVE TO CHANGE, WHICH IS TRUE, WE REALLY NEEDED TO CHANGE THE LAWS.

BUT WHENEVER WE WENT TO A FACTORY AND TALKED TO PEOPLE AND ASKED THEM, YOU KNOW, HOW ABOUT CHANGING THE [ INAUDIBLE ] LAW WERE OTHER IDEAS, THEY KEPT TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY NEED MONEY, THEY NEED SKILLS BUILDING.

AND MORE AND MORE, WE REALIZED THAT WHAT THEY WANT, AND IT'S REALLY TRUE ALMOST EVERYWHERE, THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY OR HELP SUPPORT YOUR FAMILY, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT, ANYTHING ELSE IS SORT OF A SIDE ISSUE.

AND OF COURSE, THAT'S WHAT WE CHANGED, OUR WHOLE APPROACH, THAT WE SHOULD FOCUS ON ORDINARY PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE WHO NEED IT MOST TO GET CHANGE.

AND ALSO, TO DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS --THAT IS HELPFUL TO THEIR SITUATION.

SO, NOT FROM THEORY TO ACTION, BUT FROM ACTION AND UNDERSTANDING OF NEEDS TO THEORY.

AND THAT IS HOW WE CHANGED EVERYTHING.

X OKAY, SO, THAT LED YOUR LOBBYING EFFORTS, YOUR WORK LED TO THE 1975 PASSAGE OF THE FAMILY PROTECTION LAW, INCREASED THE SAFEGUARDS OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS IN IRAN.

WHAT SPECIFICALLY CAN YOU TELL US?

I MEAN, THERE ARE CERTAIN LAWS THAT WOMEN JUST SIMPLY DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM IN DIVORCE, IN CUSTODY, IN INHERITANCE, WHAT DID YOU ACTUALLY CHANGE FOR WOMEN WITH THAT 1975 WALL?

>> THERE WERE A SERIES OF THINGS AND THEY WERE WORKED ON AT DIFFERENT SPEEDS AND AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND SO FORTH, AND I THINK THAT WHAT WAS INTERESTING WAS FOR US NOT TO DO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE DONE IN THE WEST, AND MANY OF US WERE TRAINED IN THE WEST.

AND THAT IS TO TRY TO TEACH MEN HOW TO THINK, BECAUSE IT'S NOT EASY.

IT'S EASIER TO CONNECT TO THEM AND SEE WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE, AND I AM TALKING ABOUT NOW THE CABINET FOR INSTANCE.

FOR INSTANCE, THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

WHEN WE BROUGHT A SUGGESTION THAT WE WOULD HAVE WOMEN , AND THEN OUR SUGGESTIONS WERE VERY MODERN, YOU KNOW?

WOMEN HAD STARTED WORKING, AT EVERY LEVEL, AND WE BROUGHT A SUGGESTION TO THE CABINET THAT WOMEN WHO HAD BABIES WHO WERE WORKERS, THEY WOULD GET SOMETHING LIKE HALF OF THEIR TIME WOULD BE PAID TO THEM.

THEY COULD WORK PART TIME, BUT THEN GET FULL SALARY WHILE THEIR CHILDREN WERE BEING TAKEN CARE OF , UNTIL THEY ARE ABOUT THREE YEARS OLD.

AND THIS OF COURSE WAS VERY ODD TO THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FOR INSTANCE, BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONE MOST INVOLVED FOR THIS PARTICULAR KIND OF LABOR AND WORK.

THE LAWS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO PASS ARE STILL UNIQUE IN THE WORLD.

EVEN A PLACE LIKE THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF WHAT WE HAD.

CHILDCARE ON THE PREMISES OF THE WORKPLACE.

PART-TIME WORK, AS I MENTIONED.

ALL SORTS OF SUPPORT FOR WOMEN WORKING.

AND ALSO, VERY, VERY MUCH FOCUSED ON THE IDEA OF MAKING WOMEN SKILLED IN WHATEVER IT WAS THEY WERE TRYING TO DO.

SKILLS, YES, TO TEACH THEM , YOU KNOW, TO EDUCATE THEM, SO TO SPEAK.

AND SO, ALL OF THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT, AND THE LAWS WERE EXTREMELY ADVANCED , YOU KNOW.

>> WELL, IT'S REALLY INTERESTING HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT THE LAWS, IS THAT'S REALLY WHAT MATTERS, THE FRAMEWORK OF LAW AND RULE OF LAW OR TO PROTECT ANY CITIZENS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN IN THESE SOCIETIES, AND FRANKLY, EVERY SOCIETY.

SO, I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE WE ARE NOW TALKING ABOUT YOUR TIME BEFORE THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION, AND HE HAS APPEARED TO BE AN EMANCIPATED KIND OF GUY, HE HAD A MINISTRY OF WOMEN, YET A VERY POWERFUL TWIN SISTER WHO I THINK WAS ON THE SIDE OF WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT, AND HIS WIFE, THE EMPRESS, AS WELL.

AS SOON AS THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC CAME INTO BEING, THE VERY FUNDAMENTALIST CONSERVATIVE, AND WE HAVE SEEN IT ELSEWHERE, WHETHER IT IS IRAN, AFGHANISTAN, WHETHER GOD FORBID IT IS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, CERTAIN POLITICAL AND SOCIAL CONVICTIONS GO STRAIGHT FOR THE WOMEN AND FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING THE REGIME DID WHEN THEY CAME TO POWER, HAVING PROMISED, I REMEMBER THIS, IN THEIR SLOGANS, IT IS GOING TO BE DEMOCRATIC, WOMEN WILL HAVE THEIR RIGHTS, ALL OF THAT NONSENSE, DID THE MINISTRY SURVIVE THE REVOLUTION?

>> NO, NOT AT ALL, I WAS IN THE UNITED STATES AND I WAS TRYING TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES WITH THE U. N. TO SET UP THIS MOST EXTRAORDINARY ENTITY THAT WAS FOR WOMEN ACROSS THE WORLD, AND IT WAS FOR EDUCATION AND FOR SKILLS BUILDING AND CHILDCARE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND BY THE TIME THAT I SIGNED AND WAS READY TO GO HOME, THEY TOLD ME YOU CAN'T GO COME HOME BECAUSE I WAS KNOWN DURING THE FIRST, YOU KNOW, STATEMENTS OF THE LAW THAT I WAS -- WE CALLED IT WARRIOR WITH GOD, YOU KNOW?

SO, I COULDN'T GO BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE BEEN DEFINITELY KILLED IMMEDIATELY.

SO, THIS WAS THE WAY THAT THEY ACT.

BUT THE FIRST THING THAT HE DID WHEN HE CAME TO THE COUNTRY WAS HE STOPPED THE LAWS, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE LAWS THAT WE HAD PASSED.

SO, THAT WAS ALL SET ASIDE.

AND THEN HE STARTED BRINGING OTHER THINGS THAT HE WAS INTERESTED IN.

HE WAS VERY SMART IN TERMS OF HOW HE PRESENTED HIMSELF AND THE PEOPLE HE CHOSE WHEN HE WAS IN FRANCE, AND OUR GOVERNMENT WAS PRETTY --NOT, YOU KNOW, EAST TO THIS TYPE OF THING, YOU KNOW, TO THIS KIND OF PRESENTATION THAT WAS TOTAL LIVES AND SO FORTH.

SO, THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

THERE WAS EVERY OPPORTUNITY BY PEOPLE, BOTH EUROPEANS AND THE MIDDLE EAST EARNERS TO STOP HIM AND NOT EVEN LET HIM RETURN TO IRAN, BUT THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT ACCEPT THAT AND THEY LET HIM COME, AND HE WENT AND DID WHATEVER HE MEANT TO GIVE.

BUT AGAIN, THE FIRST GROUP IN IRAN WHO STARTED THE DEMONSTRATIONS WERE WOMEN, AND IT WAS THE EIGHTH OF MARCH AND HE CAME IN IN FEBRUARY, YOU KNOW, SO THEY WERE THE FIRST ONES.

I TOOK THE MAN A LITTLE BIT LONGER BECAUSE THEY HAD LESS UNDER PRESSURE , AND THE LESS THAT THEY TALKED, THEY NEEDED TO THINK ABOUT, BUT SOME OF THEM DIDN'T GET IT.

BUT THE WOMEN IMMEDIATELY REALIZED THAT THIS IS NOT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE HE INSISTED THAT THEY GO UNDER THE HE JOB , THE WHOLE BODY RECOVERING IMMEDIATELY, SAYING THAT WAS NOT GOING TO BE AN EDICT, SO YOU TRICKED THE WOMEN OF IRAN.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

VERY BRIEFLY TO SOME UP IF YOU CAN, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR MAIN ACCOMPLISHMENT HAS BEEN AFTER A LONG LIFE OF ACTIVISM, AND REALLY MOVING FROM ONE CULTURE ALL THE WAY TO THE OTHER CULTURE, AND HAVING A REALLY GLOBAL VISION?

>> HONESTLY, I HARDLY THINK THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT I PERSONALLY HAD A UNIQUE ROLE IN, BUT WHAT I THINK THAT I LEARNED, WHICH WAS VERY HELPFUL, WAS WORKING WITH PEOPLE AND LISTENING TO PEOPLE, WHICH IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOW A PATRIARCHY IS SHAPED.

TOP TO BOTTOM.

AND NO SERIOUS CONVERSATION.

I THINK WHAT HELPED ME WAS THAT I LEARNED FROM THE VERY FIRST TIME THAT I STARTED WORKING WITH PEOPLE, THAT WE LEARN FROM EACH OTHER, AND WE SHOULD LISTEN TO EACH OTHER, AND IF WE MAKE DECISIONS, THE DECISIONS SHOULD BE ON THE BASIS OF WHAT WE LEARN FROM EACH OTHER AND PUT INTO ACTION, AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT I LEARNED, AND VERY EARLY IN MY CAREER.

AND IT'S ALWAYS HELPED ME, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A FANTASTIC SUPPORT AND STRENGTH AND FEELING THAT THERE IS SO MUCH HELP AROUND THE WORLD.

EVERYBODY WANTS THESE THINGS AND WILL HELP WITH IT, AND SO, THAT IS MY THINKING, I THINK THAT THAT IS MY LUCK, GOOD LUCK, IS TO LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND LEARN FROM THEM, AND THEY ARE GENEROUS AND WONDERFUL, AND I AM VERY HAPPY WITH THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT I HAVE HAD.

>> AND FINALLY, WE ALL KNOW THAT CHRISTMAS IS NEAR.

WHEN SANTA CLAUS COMES TO TOWN.

AND ALTHOUGH HE USUALLY TRAVELS BY SLEIGH, THESE SAND BECAUSE IN PERU ARE TAKING A DIFFERENT ROUTE.

TRADITIONAL REED BOATS, DONNING THE RED AND WHITE SUITS, THESE ARTISTS AND FISHERMEN KICKED OFF THE FESTIVE SEASON ON THE NORTHERN COAST, OFFERING FREE RIDES TO PASSENGERS ON THEIR ANCIENT WATERCRAFT.

A PERFECT BLEND OF HOLIDAY CHEER AND MARITIME CULTURE.

IMAGES YOU DON'T SEE EVERY DAY.

YOU DON'T SEE THEM EVERY CHRISTMAS EITHER, BUT WE BRING THEM TO YOU HERE.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AMANPOUR & COMPANY ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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