♪ ♪ ♪ >> Dr. E. Faye Williams, CEO and President of the National Congress of Black Women... and Rayshon Payton, attorney at the United States Department of Justice and golf enthusiast, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by... Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Over the next 10 years, Comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income Americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything.

♪ ♪ >> Dr. E. Faye Williams, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Well, thank you so much.

It's an honor to have been invited.

>> Well, listen, you have been a longtime freedom fighter for the cause of civil rights, human rights, women's rights.

You're a distinguished attorney.

You're a leader of one of our national organizations.

Tell us first, Dr. E. Faye Williams, where you're originally from.

>> I'm from Louisiana.

I grew up in a little town in Natchitoches Parish called Melrose.

My mom later moved to Alexandria, Louisiana, which is where she lived until she made her transition about four months ago.

>> Oh, okay.

Well, our condolences.

>> Thank you.

>> Listen, great things come out of Louisiana.

>> [ Laughs ] >> Great people come out of Louisiana.

I've known you for decades.

>> Yes.

>> And ever since I've known you, you've always been a freedom fighter, out there fighting for the rights of our people.

What made you want to become a lawyer?

>> Well, I went to Michigan to work after I had done a tour overseas as the director of the overseas education association under the NEA.

I was in the Pacific, in Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Okinawa, the Midway islands, et cetera.

>> Military?

>> No, I wasn't military.

I was the person who was in charge of teachers on American military bases.

I had to negotiate for them.

I had to help them with many problems that they had while they were overseas.

And when I came back, Maynard Jackson had just been elected mayor of Atlanta.

>> Famous Maynard Jackson.

>> Yes.

And I had lived in Atlanta, and I had helped him to become elected.

And he promised me that he would let me come to work for him when I came back.

Well, unfortunately, that was one of the jobs that had to go before city council, and you know Black women.

I mean, we got to be working all the time, especially if we're single.

So, I was offered the job in Michigan first.

I went to Michigan.

And it snowed so much in Michigan for so many months, I decided I would do anything -- as much as I love the people of Michigan, I would do anything to get out of Michigan.

So, Congressman Mervyn Dymally heard me say one day, "Gee, I wish I had gone to law school."

>> Mervyn's from California.

>> Absolutely right, but he was a good friend because I had lived in California previously and I knew him from then.

All I had to do was mention it, and he was calling Herb Reid and he was calling people at Georgetown and Howard and everybody that he knew, the deans, because it was late.

It was already summer.

I had not even take the LSAT.

So I had to rush to take that because he said, "Oh, you're going," you know?

So, that was my escape from the snow, to go to law school.

And I'm really glad that I did that.

I had an opportunity to meet some wonderful, wonderful people in Washington.

>> Every time I see you, you seem to be so vibrant, so full of spirit.

'Cause I know sometimes it's not easy... >> I know.

>> ...working for the rights of people, working for the rights of others.

What drives Dr. E. Faye Williams?

>> Well, you know, I've spent my jail time.

I've spent my time out on the ship, out on the Arabian Sea.

I've been to Haiti.

I've been to other places, war zones.

I've been into Iraq.

But, you know, it comes from my mom.

My mom taught us as little girls -- There was seven of us before we had a brother.

She taught us to never be afraid to work to change the things that you don't like.

And that's what we've got to get all our people to do.

And then of course I went on to Grambling University when Eddie Robinson was there.

>> HBCU.

>> That's right.

And Coach Eddie Robinson taught the young women, as well as the young men, "You can be anything and do anything you want to do, so long as you're willing to pay the price."

Oh, I've paid some prices, too.

And, you know, he was always teaching us things that we needed to know.

And then it came down to my best friend being Dick Gregory, and Dick Gregory always taught us that God and fear do not occupy the same space.

So, you just kind of see something that needs to be done and you go out there and you do it.

>> And you just touched one of our mutual friends, one of our mutual freedom fighters who has passed on.

>> Yes.

>> Talk to our audience about the impact of Dick Gregory from your perspective.

>> Well, you know, many people knew him as a comic, and as I talk with people like Trevor Noah and, you know, all of the wonderful comedians who are out there today, almost every one of them will give him credit for starting them to be more than just a comic, although it's important for us to laugh, but they've all done many things that move our people forward.

But what people don't know is about the dangerous work that he did in the Civil Rights Movement.

He was the one who walked out there, you know, who faced the dogs, who faced the whole -- who faced everything.

He was not afraid, and that's why I said awhile ago he taught me never to be afraid to do something that you needed to do.

And just recently a film was made about him which will tell people more than I can even tell you in the time we have.

It's called "Dick Gregory The One and Only."

>> When they say this show features living color, you better believe it.

[ Laughter ] In about six more months, they're gonna be forced to hire Negro bus drivers in Mississippi.

So we're growing steering wheels so they can drive from the back of the bus.

[ Laughter ] >> His stage presence was so... >> Excuse me.

>> ...smooth.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, Dick Gregory!

>> That's one of the few documentaries or films you'll see where the person being talked about is the person talking.

Most of the film came from him, so we know it isn't something we're making up.

It's something he said, something we saw him doing in the Civil Rights Movement.

He was so very involved.

He loved Malcolm X.

He loved Dr. Martin Luther King.

He worked with them, and he gave up so much.

>> He was in Mississippi when Medgar Evers was killed.

>> Absolutely.

Medgar was one of his best friends, and he always told me about that.

And he said that but for the fact that his young son died that night, he would have been right there with Medgar.

He was able to live and able to continue in the movement.

But what I wanted to say -- most of us are not able to give up millions of dollars for the causes of our people.

Dick Gregory did that.

It didn't matter how much it cost him.

He stopped his comic work, but he entertained the people who were out there who maybe had a bit of fear for being out there in the Civil Rights Movement, but they could at least have a laugh when Dick Gregory was around.

And he continued that.

No matter whose conference or convention or whatever it was, even if they didn't have the money, he was there to speak for them.

He knew that he could give the people a few laughs, but he could also give them lessons in what we ought to be doing as a people.

And he did that until the day he died.

I remember the Saturday when he left us, he was talking about what was happening down in Virginia, you know, with the events they had there.

And we were watching it, with Boston.

Boston was having a similar thing that same day.

And while he had been lying in that bed, could hardly sit up, when that film came on about what was happening, he raised up in his bed and he said, "Wake up and stay woke."

And that was his last message to us as a people.

That was the last words I heard him speak.

That's why I named my radio program for him, "Wake Up Stay Woke."

I named my book "Dick Gregory Wake Up and Stay Woke" because that's so significant.

That's what he always taught us.

Like Eddie Robinson, you know, taught us, "You don't leave the game until it's over."

And as Black people, we know the game is not over.

We've got to continue working for our rights because even some of the ones we thought we had, we're losing them and we're going back working to gain those rights all over again.

>> Tell us about the mission of the National Congress of Black Women.

>> Well, we started out as a service organization, but for political reasons, when Dr. Tucker and others went to the Democratic Convention in San Francisco, they found that Geraldine Ferraro was just selected, just out of the clear blue, and we had people like Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm, Congresswoman Barbara Jordan, and so many wonderfully qualified Black women.

They were just passed over.

They weren't even considered.

And so they came back home -- The Black women who were there came back home and decided that, "Oh, we have to do something about this.

We have to get more Black women involved in politics."

And of course you know the rest is history because we were very involved then.

But along the way, when Dr. Tucker became chairperson after Shirley Chisholm, she decided that we needed to be a service organization and do political things, but we were a nonprofit organization at that point because she felt that there would be more funds available to us if we were a nonprofit.

And we could still encourage women and teach them how to run and, you know, what to run for, teach them the issues, et cetera.

So, we became a nonprofit when Dr. Tucker became the chairperson.

>> For the National Congress of Black Women, what is your top priority today?

>> Well, our top priority of course is helping get people vaccinated so that they can stay healthy, that they can be around with us.

And then we of course work to get people educated.

We think there's nothing like educated -- I know my mom use to say, "Baby, get all the education you can, and that's one thing they can't take away from you."

So I have gone back to school and I have done many degrees.

And the more I get, the more I understand that I don't know, so I continue to study.

I just finished a course in diplomacy last Saturday because that's some, you know, topic that I had not studied.

So, I am just happy seeing that more of us are involved and staying the course, not going and getting angry with one another or giving up.

We've got to stay the course because there's so much to do and it requires so many of us to be out there.

>> It's interesting that the intersection between political empowerment and service to the community.

>> Yes.

>> You know, sometimes there's a debate between social service versus social change.

>> Right.

>> But it seems to me in the National Congress of Black Women, you do both.

>> We do both, absolutely, because we know that there's so many of our people who cannot help themselves, cannot go to their member of Congress, or they don't know how to go to their member of Congress.

We can do all of that wherever we are, but we can still -- For instance, through COVID-19, we've never stopped working.

We have safely gone to deliver food to senior citizens.

We have taken them to their doctor.

We've taken them to their pharmacy or wherever they needed to go.

Those were services that we performed.

And of course we try to introduce young children through a program that Dr. Tucker started called College for Kids.

And we take the little ones, and we teach them about all the wonderful things they can be in life because, you know, many of them only know about dancing, singing, or football playing.

When they leave our classes in College for Kids, they then may still want to be a dancer or a singer or what have you, but they also want to be, you know, a doctor.

And we teach them the different kinds of doctors they can be.

And we don't give them lectures.

We bring in people from all kinds of job areas and have the little kids ask them questions like, "What did you have to study before you became what you are?

What did you have to do in school?

And what do you do on your job?"

So they get to know these other professions that they can be in once they leave our course.

And we allow them to do their own graduation, and they leave with their little certificates.

They're graduates of College for Kids.

>> What are you seeing among young people today?

Do you see an affinity to be involved in the movements for social change?

>> I do, you know, and some people talk about young people and what they're not doing, but young people are doing a lot.

They've stepped out there.

And you know what?

They all knew Dick Gregory.

Every time I asked, "Did you know Dick Gregory?"

they generally know him, and they talk about his civil rights work, not just about his comedy.

And they have gained, you know, something from what he has always preached, what he's always said.

And I remember one of the things he used to say to young people was, "You know, we were young at one time.

When we were doing all those things, we were young, too."

And we're still doing them.

That's why we have the "stay woke" part of it, is that we have to continue doing it and we have to honor those who came before us.

He would talk to them about that.

And I see many of them doing that, and some of these young people are so smart.

They have some things that we didn't have, you know, technology and what have you.

So, those who are serious about it are really appreciated, and I see young people just doing great things.

But I enjoy working with young people, and I'm always there ready to talk about my experiences when they want to know about them, and ready to help them, and not necessarily be the leader, but to allow them to be the leader.

>> Well, that's a lot of wisdom, a lot of sharing very positive advice.

The Reverend Dr. E. Faye Williams, the executive director of the National Congress of Black Women, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for treating me like a soldier, like a warrior, because that's what I take pride in being.

>> Well, you're still a soldier and you're still a warrior and we salute you and God bless.

>> Thank you.

God bless you.

♪ ♪ >> We're very pleased to welcome Rayshon Payton to "The Chavis Chronicles."

You are a distinguished lawyer for the United States Department of Justice.

You are now an avid golfer.

I want to talk to you about both of these things.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you so much for having me.

>> So, Rayshon, you come from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

>> Yes, from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

My parents, Raymond and Mildred Payton -- My mom is from Ada, Oklahoma, and my dad is from a small town in Louisiana called Bogalusa, Louisiana.

And, yeah, we lived in Oklahoma City, and it was a great time.

I really enjoyed it.

My parents worked very, very hard and sacrificed so my brother and I could live the lives that we have today.

And it was wonderful.

And I remember starting golf at a very young age.

I started playing maybe about 11 years old.

There was a program in Oklahoma City, and that's where it all got started.

>> Was this the First Tee program?

>> This was a different program, but I transitioned to the First Tee program about a year later.

And I didn't get serious about golf, I would say, until I was about 13, and then the rest was history.

>> I was speaking with Jay Monahan, the commissioner of the PGA Tour, and he was telling me about this fascinating program called First Tee.

Talk to us about -- You said you first were introduced in Oklahoma City.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But how did you become an avid golfer?

>> So, I started playing seriously about 13, 14, when I joined the First Tee program.

And they announced a chapter in Oklahoma City.

And, you know, I loved the game, and I thought it was a great opportunity to join.

And what makes the First Tee program so unique is they have something called the Nine Core Values, things such as integrity, respect, confidence, courtesy, things that not only help you on the golf course, but also help you off the golf course.

And so imagine youth, imagine, you know, 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, 14-year-old youth with a curriculum that directly teaches them these values.

And it was absolutely great.

>> So, you learned the importance of having core values while you were a teenager.

>> Absolutely.

And I will never forget confidence, and it was -- >> That was one of the values -- confidence.

>> Yes, sir, it was one of the values.

And I'll never forget -- it was a warm summer day in Oklahoma.

As you know, Oklahoma can get very, very hot.

And we were all lined up on the putting green, and the task for confidence was to go and introduce yourself to someone who you didn't know.

And it's just -- you know, that's just one of the many examples that they have of directly teaching these core values to youth.

And that is one of the skills that I take with me today.

And so I think back on some of the opportunities that I received throughout the First Tee, and, you know, as a teenager, you would write essays.

You know, of course golf matters, but, again, the First Tee -- they want a holistic student.

And so you have to write essays.

You have to have letters of recommendation from leaders within your community.

And so we would go to Life Skills academies, where we would play golf and also learn, you know, things such as goal setting.

And that's one of the other great things that I learned at a very young age, the importance of short-term goals, the importance of long-terms goals, and most importantly how to reevaluate a goal once you learn about more about an issue.

>> How do you see golf being a place where people can not only learn a skill and a sport, but contribute to their self-development?

>> Absolutely.

I love golf because it's a unique sport in which you call penalties on yourself.

So, you're learning integrity.

You're learning respect when you go to the golf course.

And you learn so many skills from golf itself, but also I would tell people to persevere and that the pathway to success is not linear.

You know, it's tough when you have a goal, you set that goal, and you don't achieve it right away, as we live in an instant-gratification society.

But if it was easy, everyone would do it.

And so learn that, you know, the pathway to success is not linear and also to keep trying and also to get out there and play some golf.

Golf is a game that lasts a lifetime, and so many doors and opportunities have been awarded to myself throughout the game of golf.

So, definitely continue that.

>> Since you were raised up in the First Tee and now you're an avid golfer yourself, is the trend moving in the right direction?

Are you seeing more diversity, equity, and inclusion in golf?

>> One of the things that I think would benefit the game of golf greatly is to diversify the ecosystem of the game.

Of course we want more Black PGA Tour professionals -- Tiger Woods, Joe Bramlett, Harold Varner.

Of course we want that pipeline to remain strong.

I also want to see more diverse and women tournament directors.

I also want to see more diverse country club presidents.

I also want to see more diverse golf course superintendents who oversee the multimillion-dollar operation of these golf courses so when the First Tee goes to a golf course, they see the person who's calling the shots looks just like them.

And that's something that I think Jay and the PGA Tour is definitely committed to.

>> Where'd you go to undergraduate school?

>> Oklahoma City University.

>> And then onto law school?

>> University of Oklahoma College of Law.

>> So Oklahoma's done you very well.

>> [ Laughs ] Yes, they have.

>> Now you're in Washington, D.C. >> Absolutely.

>> Tell us what you do at the United States Department of Justice.

>> So, I work in the Office of Legislative Affairs.

I'm an attorney adviser there.

So, any interaction that the Justice Department has with Congress, that's our job.

So, think about the Attorney General.

Think about the Deputy Attorney Generals.

Think about the assistants, the wide array of assistants that run different components within the Department.

Our job is to liaise with Congress on those issues.

Our job is to also make sure that they get confirmed and navigate the confirmation process successfully, and also just, you know, make sure that the relationship remains well with Congress.

You know, if you would have told me years ago when I was walking through the halls at the University of Oklahoma, with my backpack over one shoulder, that one day I would be walking the halls of the Justice Department, I wouldn't have believed you.

And so it has been an absolute honor of my life.

The Attorney General, I think, is a wonderful man with -- with such a high moral compass.

And you also mentioned Assistant Attorney General Kristen Clarke, who is the perfect individual for the job to work to restore voting rights and work to create the more perfect union that we speak of.

>> What gives you confidence that our society will be able to rise to the occasion to ensure greater equality, greater fairness, and greater simple justice without any discriminatory factor as of race or sexual orientation or any other discriminating factor?

>> I would say one thing that gives me high levels of hope and confidence are the conversations that took place after George Floyd.

There were individuals who, one, were never confronted with this issue before in a such forceful manner.

And to see their reaction, to see their openness to change, to see their willingness to have the conversations, to see their willingness to say, "We apologize for these injustices.

What can we do to move forward?"

-- I think that gives me great hope, was to see the change that coalesced around that issue.

And I think with that we'll move forward in a positive way.

>> Well, what do you see as the future?

Do you think people are gonna celebrate more, embrace more the importance of diversity rather than to fear it?

>> I think people will work to embrace diversity more.

I look at programs such as the First Tee that truly work to bring a more diverse space to the game of golf.

And let's be honest -- like, golf is buttoned-up.

Golf is traditional.

Golf can be stuffy at times.

But I think the program does a great job of breaking down those barriers.

I mean, you get your golf rulebook, and that's a thick rulebook.

And, you know, the rules can be complicated at times, but you have programs that truly break down the sport and show that the sport is accessible to everyone and, you know, work to break down things such as cost.

Golf is very expensive.

The First Tee works to subsidize the game of golf for people within the community.

And so I think, with those changes, I think it's also going to change the face of golf.

>> I understand that Commissioner Monahan has also announced a program to encourage students at historically black colleges and universities to become involved in golf and even offering golf scholarships to HBCUs.

Tell us about that program.

>> I think that program is absolutely amazing, and I think it's very necessary.

My dad went to Grambling University, so I have -- [ Laughs ] >> That's one of the leading HBCUs in Louisiana.

>> Absolutely.

So I am very well aware of the extremely positive impact that HBCUs have.

And so I think it's great, and I applaud the efforts of bringing such an impactful sport to HBCUs, to the programs that deserve them, and I look forward to seeing these programs flourish.

>> Rayshon Payton, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by... Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Over the next 10 years, Comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income Americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything.

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