WILLIAM BRANGHAM: A federal judge# has temporarily blocked the Trump## administration from detaining or deporting# Imran Ahmed.

He's a British-born researcher## who focuses on countering online# hate and misinformation.

But the## Trump administration accuses him of trying to# censor viewpoints that he doesn't agree with.

Ahmed leads a group called the Center for# Countering Digital Hate.

And he is one## of five European nationals recently barred# entry to the U.S.

by the State Department.

Imran Ahmed is in the U.S., and he joins us now.

Thank you so much for being here.

As I mentioned, the U.S.

government,# specifically Secretary of State Marco Rubio,## accuses you of trying to censor social# media companies and to pressure them## into taking viewpoints that you find# objectionable off their sites.

Rubio## called you and these other individuals foreign# censors.

What do you make of that accusation?

IMRAN AHMED, CEO, Center for Countering# Digital Hate: Well, thank you.

I mean,## it's terribly confusing.

The work that the center does, looking into# things as diverse as.. hatred against Jews, antisemitism on social media# platforms, which we worked on with the first Trump## administration in 2020, and we have continued# to work on a bipartisan basis globally,## including in the United States with both the# federal and state governments, and the work that## we do protecting children online, looking at the# spread of eating disorder and self-harm content,## this is, first of all, important work that# needs to be done to protect the public.

But, second, we're a nonprofit, and we# can't therefore be censoring things,## which is, of course, something# that the government does.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, you seem to be# arguing that your free speech rights are## being violated, which is precisely what# the administration argues you are doing.

Do you have a sense as to why your organization# and why you in particular were targeted?

IMRAN AHMED: Yes, I mean, one of the issues that# we have had is that we take on, of course, some## of the biggest corporations in America, companies# like X, Elon Musk, Meta, and others, and ChatGPT,## so OpenAI, and these companies which typically# aren't able to be held accountable properly,## whether that is through the courts because# of the way that U.S.

law is structured,## that they are the only companies in America whose# products really aren't subject to any liability if## they cause harm to people, even when they persuade# kids to take their own lives, for example.

But we think that this is another example of these# companies which have tried to evade responsibility## using their big money to try and influence things# in politics.

And we have seen companies like X,## for example, suing us before because# they didn't like being held accountable.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean, in 2023, your# organization was sued by X after you## reported a rise in hate speech on# that platform after Musk bought X. Musk, again, he argued that you were trying# to destroy the First Amendment because you## didn't like particular viewpoints# that were being floated on X. Again,## that case was dismissed, I know, and there's# an appeal under way.

What do you make of that## argument that they are making that you are# simply trying to come in and censor them?

IMRAN AHMED: Look, people can say things as# they wish, and Mr.

Musk says a lot of things.

Now, what the courts actually found was that# his lawsuit, which basically said you're not## allowed to research our platform and# doing so is a breach of the contract## that you have with X when you sign up to it,# they found that he was trying to impinge on## our First Amendment rights to research and# communicate that research, which we did.

And that research went all around the world.# It led to advertisers leaving his platform.## It led to his trust and safety council# resigning.

He sued us for $10 million,## and it was dismissed with prejudice with# a SLAPP ruling, a costs awarded to CCDH.

So that's another example# of how these people simply## don't like being transparent or accountable.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The court, a federal# judge, has temporarily stopped this## deportation or expulsion on your part.

And# we should say, you are a legal resident.## You have a green card.

You are married to an# American.

You are the father of an American.

How comfortable are you that the U.S.# justice system will continue to protect you?

IMRAN AHMED: Look, I have lived in# America for over five years now.

I## love America.

I love the idea of America,# the idea that laws are made by people,## not by kings, that we have checks# and balances on every place of power.

And I have faith in the justice system.# I know that the justice system works,## because when the world's richest man took# on my small nonprofit and tried to sue us## out of existence, it actually protected us# and made sure that our costs were covered.

And I think, in this instance, what we're seeing# is America working just as it was intended to.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: But we have# seen the Trump administration,## particularly when it comes to# deporting foreign nationals,## move very quickly, sometimes seemingly# in contradiction to judicial orders.

Do you have a sense as to how close you were# to being deported before this judge stepped in?

IMRAN AHMED: Well, we haven't received any# notification of any actual action by the## U.S.

government.

The State Department# put out a press release, I believe,## that Mr.

Musk was celebrating# online, saying this is great.

But there's no actual correspondence with me,# as a legal permanent resident of the United## States.

So we don't know.

But that's why I# assembled an extraordinary bunch of lawyers,## everyone from the ACLU, to Roberta Kaplan, our# lead counsel, Chris Clarke (ph), and others,## to make sure that there wasn't any chance# of an arbitrary detention and being spirited## away hundreds or thousands of miles away from# my friends, family, and my support network.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, that is Imran# Ahmed, the Center for Countering Digital Hate.

Thank you so much for being here.

IMRAN AHMED: Thank you.