A DEEPLY PERSONAL STORY OF RACE, 100 YEARS AGO, TWO BLACK BROTHERS FROM NEW ORLEANS WERE SEPARATED BY THE HARSH REALITY OF THE JIM CROW LAWS, ONE WITH AS A BLACK MAN IN LOUISIANA.

THE OTHER WAS LIGHTER SKINNED, MOVED TO CHICAGO, PASSING AS WHITE.

TRACED HER OWN ANCESTRY, AND SHE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS HER LEGACY OF THIS LONG-BURIED FAMILY SECRET.

>> SUSAN SAULNY , THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

I UNDERSTAND YOU ARE JOINING US FROM A VERY MEANINGFUL AND BEAUTIFUL LOCATION.

WHERE ARE YOU?

>> I AM IN THE LOWER GARDEN DISTRICT OF NEW ORLEANS , INSIDE THE HOME, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, OF MY GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHER, COLONEL JOSEPH.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS THIS IS AMAZING, YOUR ARTICLE BEGINS WITH A FAMILY MYSTERY AND IT ENDS WITH A FAMILY REUNION.

SO, LET ME START WITH WHAT WAS THE MYSTERY.

>> MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS BROTHER SPENT TIME IN AN ORPHANAGE IN THE 1910s A PRETTY GRIM EXISTENCE .

THEY AGED OUT AT A TIME OF HARSH SEGREGATION, ONE OF THE BROTHERS, JUST A FEW SHADES LIGHTER THAN MY GRANDFATHER, GEORGE, DECIDED TO TAKE A CHANCE ON A BETTER LIFE IN CHICAGO AS A WHITE MAN .

HIS SKIN COLOR ALLOWED HIM TO DO THAT.

MY GRANDFATHER, BEING A SHADE OR TWO DARKER, DID NOT MAKE THAT CHOICE.

I DON'T KNOW IF HE WANTED TO, BUT THE REALITY IS, HE STAYED IN NEW ORLEANS AND LIVED AS A BLACK MAN.

WHAT WE HAD AT THAT POINT WAS PARALLEL LIVES , WITH ONE BROTHER LIVING IN NEW ORLEANS AND HAVING CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

AND ONE BROTHER LIVING AS WHITE IN CHICAGO AND HAVING CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

WE HAVE A VERY NEAT, 100 YEAR ARC TO LIVE WITH.

THAT WAS THE SECRET, THAT WAS THE SECRET I HAVE KNOWN SINCE I WAS A LITTLE GIRL AND WE WERE TAUGHT NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

>> I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS.

HOW DID THIS COME UP, WHEN YOU ARE A CHILD?

>> MY GRANDFATHER STILL LOVED HIS BROTHER AND I THINK HE WISHED HIM THE BEST.

EDWARD THOUGHT, THIS IS HIS OPPORTUNITY AND GEORGE WANTED HIM TO DO IT, GEORGE WAS A PROTECTIVE OLDER BROTHER AND WANTED US TO PROTECT EDWARD BY NOT TALKING ABOUT IT .

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A TIME WHEN A MAN, A BLACK MAN FOUND TO BE POSING AS WHITE COULD FACE MOB VIOLENCE, PERHAPS EVEN LYNCHING.

HE COULD LOSE HIS JOB, LOSE HIS HOME.

IN MY GRANDFATHER'S TIME, THIS SECRET WAS LIFE OR DEATH.

HE PASSED THE SECRET ON TO HIS CHILDREN, HIS UNCLE PASSED, AND THEY WERE NOT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

AND MY GENERATION PASSED ON, OF WHICH THERE WERE 30.

GEORGE CREATED A REALLY BIG FAMILY .

HE WAS NOT RICH IN POSSESSIONS, BUT HE WAS RICH IN LOVE.

BOTH BROTHERS WERE ABLE TO CREATE SOMETHING FROM SCRATCH.

IN EDWARD'S CASE, IT WAS A SMOOTH TRAJECTORY TO THE MIDDLE CLASS, HOMEOWNERSHIP, BUYING A CAR, THE CHILDREN WENT TO COLLEGE, SOME WENT TO LAW SCHOOL, EVERYONE HAD A COMFORTABLE LIFESTYLE, SUMMERS ON LAKE MICHIGAN.

IN GEORGE'S CASE, REMEMBER, THE SAME UPBRINGING FOR THESE BOYS.

JUST A FEW SHADES APART IN COLOR, GEORGE DID NOT HAVE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES IN NEW ORLEANS.

GEORGE COULD NOT FIND WORK EXCEPT AS A BRICKLAYER AND HE LAID BRICKS UNTIL HE RETIRED.

HE WAS LIVING IN POVERTY FOR QUITE A LOT OF TIME DURING THE DEPRESSION.

AND I HAVE HEARD STORIES ABOUT HOW HE BURNED HIS OWN FURNITURE FOR FIREWOOD WHEN IT WAS COLD.

OR HOW HE WOULD GO LOOK FOR FOOD THAT FELL OFF OF CARGO SHIPS UNLOADING AT THE MISSISSIPPI DOCKS.

THIS WAS A MAN WHO HAD A GOOD AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE AND AMBITION THAT YOU CAN SEE HOW RACE PLAYED OUT ACROSS TIME, ACROSS FAMILIES AND THAT IS WHAT I WAS HOPING THIS ARTICLE WITH JOE.

YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT PASSING IS A HISTORICAL FACT.

BILBO WAS THE EMOTIONAL POLE, THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TOLL, AND HOW DID THE PAIN MORPH AND MUTATE OVER GENERATIONS ?

THAT IS WHAT I WAS HOPING TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION, TO SEE THE LIVED EXPERIENCES OF AN ACTUAL FAMILY GOING THROUGH THIS, BLACK AND WHITE, NORTH AND SOUTH.

>> IT WAS POPE LEO, THE FIRST AMERICAN POPE, HIS FAMILY HAD TRAILS IN NEW ORLEANS.

HOW DID THAT MAKE YOU KIND OF THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT YOUR FAMILY, OR DID IT?

>> I REMEMBER WHEN THE AMERICAN POPE WAS ANNOUNCED , THE AMOUNT OF EXCITEMENT ACROSS THE MEDIA AND COUNTRY, LATER THAT NIGHT, TO BE CONFIRMED BY A LOCAL ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW ORLEANS, POPE LEO'S MATERNAL GRANDPARENTS LIVED IN THE SEVENTH WARD, THE HISTORIC CENTER OF AFRO CREOLE CULTURE, THEY IDENTIFIED AS BLACK AND MILANO, AND LIVED AS A WHITE FAMILY IN CHICAGO.

IT FELT LIKE THE QUIET PART OF SO MANY CREOLE HISTORIES WAS JUST SAID OUT LOUD AND I THOUGHT, I CAN HELP EXPLAIN, NOT THE POPE'S STORY IN PARTICULAR, BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT THE TIME THAT MIGHT LEAD SOMEONE TO MAKE A DECISION THAT WAY.

I COULD FOCUS ON MY OWN FAMILY AND PROVIDE SOME HISTORICAL THIS MOMENT.

THAT WAS ONE REASON THAT MY MOTHER HAS NEVER KNOWN, SHE IS 85 NOW .

WHAT HAPPENED TO HER UNCLE, SHE DID NOT KNOW WHAT HE DIED YOUNG, HOW MANY CHILDREN, IF YOU HAD CHILDREN AT ALL.

I WANTED IT TO BE PEACE OF MIND AS SHE ENTERS HER FINAL YEARS.

AND I HAD A FEELING, THE SECRET IS NOT A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, THIS GENERATION OF DESCENDENTS OF EDWARD WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE OPEN TO HAVING MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THEIR FAMILY AND IT TURNS OUT THAT ALL OF THAT WAS TRUE.

>> LET'S GO BACK TO WHERE YOU ARE.

HOW IS IT THAT YOUR GRANDFATHER'S WERE LIVING IN POVERTY ?

IF THEIR GRANDFATHER LIVED IN THAT HOUSE ?

WHAT IS THE STORY?

>> THAT IS REALLY GREAT QUESTION.

THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN THE MID- 800S, AND THE OWNER, MY GREAT -GREAT GRANDFATHER, USED SLAVE LABOR TO BUILD WEALTH AND WAS SOMEONE WHO FOUGHT FOR THE SOUTH IN THE CIVIL WAR AND HE HAD STRONG, CERTAIN IDEAS ABOUT THE SEPARATION OF THE RACES.

HIS SON THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY.

AND HIS SON, MY GREAT- GRANDFATHER NED , ENDED UP HAVING A VERY OPEN RELATIONSHIP WITH A BLACK WOMAN IN THE CITY WHO LIVED A FEW MILES AWAY, IN THE HISTORIC PART OF CREOLE CULTURE.

A LOT OF WHITE MEN AT THE TIME HAD SECRET FAMILIES BUT WHAT WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS RELATIONSHIP, MED LIVED OPENLY.

NED WAS DIFFERENT FOR HIS TIME TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHY.

MAYBE SOME OF HIS FORMATIVE YEARS WERE DOING --DURING RECONSTRUCTION AND HE HAD A MORE OPTIMISTIC VIEW OF HOW MUCH EASIER THAN IT TURNED OUT TO BE.

BUT NED AND HIS FATHER HAD A FALLING OUT, YOU CAN IMAGINE, A CONFEDERATE VETERAN'S SON , WHO IS OPENLY LIVING AND HAVING CHILDREN WITH A BLACK WOMAN, THE COLONEL WHO LIVED IN THIS HOUSE DID NOT APPROVE.

SO, WHEN THE CHILDREN'S MOTHER DIED YOUNG, AND NED FOUND HIMSELF ALONE WITH THOSE CHILDREN, MY GREAT GREAT GRANDFATHER WHO LIVED HEREIN 8000 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE, DID NOT TAKE THEM IN, AND THAT IS HOW THEY ENDED UP IN AN ORPHANAGE CALLED AN ASYLUM FOR COLORED BOYS.

>> SO HOW DID EDWARD WIND UP GETTING TO CHICAGO?

>> I THINK EDWARD, THROUGH HIS FATHER, HAD EXPOSURE TO THE WHITE WORLD AND PROBABLY PICKED UP ON HOW TO PRETEND TO BE PART OF IT.

WITH HIS LIGHT COMPLEXION, I TEENS OR EARLY 20s, HE DECIDED THERE IS NOTHING FOR ME IN NEW ORLEANS.

NO TIME, NO MONEY, NO JOB OPPORTUNITIES, NOT MUCH EDUCATION.

HE DIED IN THE 1970s.

I IMAGINE HE HAD TO MAKE A VERY HARD CHOICE BETWEEN FAMILY AND SURVIVAL AND HE CHOSE SURVIVAL.

AND I DO NOT KNOW , AS WELL, WHETHER MY GRANDFATHER WAS UPSET OR DISTRAUGHT OR SUPPORTIVE.

HOWEVER HE FELT, IN THE END, HE DECIDED TO KEEP THE SECRET AND WISH FOR THE BEST FOR HIS BROTHER.

>> SO, LET'S FAST-FORWARD.

YOU ALWAYS KNEW THAT YOU HAD THIS ANCESTOR, YOU WERE NOT REALLY SURE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, HOW THE WHITE BRANCH OF THE FAMILY WOULD REACT TO YOUR QUERIES .

WHAT WERE YOU ANXIOUS OR WORRIED ABOUT ?

>> I THINK MY GRANDFATHER'S VOICE WAS IN MY EAR SOMEWHERE, JUST LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE.

JUST LEAVE THINGS ALONE.

GRANDFATHER'S WISHES.

AS A GRANDDAUGHTER WHO IS SOMEWHAT OBEDIENT, I KNEW THAT I WAS DOING SOMETHING THAT GRANDPA GEORGE MAY NOT APPROVE OF.

RIGHT?

20 YEARS OR SO AGO I LIVED IN CHICAGO, AND I COULD HAVE REACHED OUT TO THEM, BUT THINK ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF RACIAL ANIMUS AND THE POLARIZATION AND THE HATE CRIMES, I REMEMBER THINKING, MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING I JUST DON'T WANT TO TOUCH.

I PRIORITIZED IT NOW , FOR A WHOLE HOST OF DIFFERENT REASONS THAT HAVE THE DO WITH BEING MORE MATURE MYSELF, AND DROPPING THE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW THE OTHER SIDE WOULD REACT, MY MOTHER'S AGE, AND THE POPE'S ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WE ARE IN A SOCIETY NOW THAT IS SO DEEPLY CONNECTED ONLINE, AND IN EVERY OTHER WAY, IT IS HARD TO KEEP A SECRET THESE DAYS.

I HAD A FEELING THAT I WOULD BE GIVING THEM INFORMATION THAT MAYBE THEY ALREADY KNEW, OR AT LEAST HAD AN INKLING OF.

SURE ENOUGH, THAT TURNED OUT TO BE THE CASE.

>> HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT FINDING THEM?

HOW DID THEY REACT WHEN YOU REACHED OUT?

>> I HAD A GOOD AMOUNT OF RESEARCH AND I THANK THE NEW YORK TIMES FOR THAT.

WE USED ALL SORTS OF ANCESTRY TOOLS AND I LOOKED FOR OBITUARIES, I LOOKED ON SOCIAL MEDIA, OLD NEWSPAPERS , THERE WAS A LOT WRITTEN IN ANCIENT FRENCH.

WE TRIED TO GATHER EVERY BIT OF INFORMATION WE COULD, ABOUT MY GRANDPARENTS, GREAT- GRANDPARENTS, AND THEIR DESCENDENTS.

IT CAME DOWN TO THE VERY GENTLE REACHING OUT AND JUST HOPING FOR THE BEST AND I REACHED OUT WITH SHORT MESSAGES, EITHER OVER SOCIAL MEDIA, I FOUND AN EMAIL ADDRESS.

IN A SEARCH, YOU COME UP WITH A PHONE NUMBER.

THE FIRST , WITH ONE COUSIN, HER NAME WAS CHRISTINE, I GOT SUCH A POSITIVE REACTION FROM HER, I WAS REALLY ENCOURAGED TO KEEP GOING.

AS SOON AS SHE SAW THE MESSAGE SHE WROTE BACK SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, YES, OF COURSE I WOULD LOVE TO, WHEN CAN WE TALK?

THROUGH CHRISTINE, I FOUND OUT SHE HAD LONG-STANDING QUESTIONS SHE WANTED ANSWERED .

SHE SAID COUSIN LAUREN FEELS THIS WAY, TOO.

SO, THROUGH ONE PERSON I LEARNED ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE, AND I SLOWLY MADE MY WAY THROUGH THE FAMILY TREE.

INTRODUCING MYSELF AS SOMEONE WHO SHARED A COMMON ANCESTOR AND ALSO PUTTING OUT PRETTY QUICKLY THAT I WAS A WRITER AND REPORTER AND THAT I WANTED TO SHARE OUR STORY.

>> WHEN YOU FIRST ENCOUNTERED SOME OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS, THERE WERE TEARS?

>> OH, YES.

>> THERE WERE TEARS.

SAY MORE ABOUT THAT.

>> WHEN EVERYONE LEFT KNEW WE -- LOUISIANA , NEW ORLEANS, HE LEFT HIS CULTURE, HE CARRIED A SECRET, ALONG WITH HIS WIFE, SHE WAS ALSO A VERY LIGHT- COMPLEXION CREOLE, PASSING IN CHICAGO AS A WHITE WOMAN.

THE TWO WERE BONDED BY THEIR COVER STORIES.

THEY MUST HAVE EXPERIENCED QUITE A BIT OF ISOLATION BECAUSE OF FEAR.

IF YOU GET TO --TOO CLOSE, TO SOMEONE, MAYBE THEY WILL FIGURE IT OUT.

CHRISTINE SAID I WAS ALWAYS WANTING TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHERE THEY CAME FROM, WHO THEIR GRANDPARENTS WERE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND THEY DO NOT HAVE THAT SENSE THAT I GREW UP WITH, IN NEW ORLEANS, OF AN ENORMOUS, SPRAWLING FAMILY .

I THINK THEY WANTED THAT.

WHEN YOU LONG FOR THAT ALL YOUR LIFE, ONE DAY, IT IS EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY YOU DID NOT HAVE IT AND THEN YOU HAVE IT, BECAUSE WE WERE ALL THERE WITH OPEN ARMS.

I THINK THE EMOTION OF IT WAS JUST OVERWHELMING TO THEM.

>> DOES ANYONE NOT FEEL THAT WAY?

>> IT IS AN UNDERSTANDABLE QUESTION.

ANGER IS AMONG THE RESPONSES THAT YOU CAN HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN THE PAST.

WHY HIM AND NOT US?

WAS IT A SELFISH AND ESCAPIST THING TO DO?

I THINK, WHEN I WAS A LITTLE GIRL THAT I HEARD THE FIRST STORY ABOUT THE MAN WHO LEFT THE FAMILY, I THOUGHT, WHAT?

WE WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HIM, I MAY HAVE HAD FEELINGS THAT WERE ANGER.

I DID NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THEN.

AS I GREW UP, I UNDERSTOOD MORE AND I COULD SEE HIM AS A FULLER PERSON WITH A LOT OF EMPATHY.

AND NOW I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT HE WAS STUCK IN A TERRIBLE SYSTEM THAT FORCED HARD CHOICES HAVE RATHER DONE OTHER THINGS WITH THEIR LIVES.

BUT THE SYSTEM , JUDGING PEOPLE ALONG COLOR LINES, IT , ALONG THOSE LINES, IS ILLOGICAL, ABSURD, AND COMPLETELY ARBITRARY.

AND THAT IS WHAT I WANT TO SHOW WITH THE FAMILY STORY.

AND WHAT I HOPED , YOU KNOW, THAT THE STORY GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO THINK DEEPLY ABOUT OUR OWN RACIAL HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY AND HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN FAMILIES, ACROSS TIME.

>> BEFORE A LADY GO, THE COUNTRY IS BEGINNING TO COMMEMORATE THE 250th ANNIVERSARY OF THE FOUNDING OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND YOUR STORY ENCOMPASSES ALMOST ALL OF IT.

SLAVERY, THE CIVIL WAR, JIM CROW, IT IS ALSO THE GREAT MIGRATION.

IS THIS SOMETHING YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT, AS THE COUNTRY ENTERS THIS PERIOD OF YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT HOW YOUR OWN FAMILY STORY FITS INTO THAT BIGGER STORY.

WHAT COMES TO MIND AND WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE US TO BE THINKING ABOUT ?

>> THAT WE ARE ALWAYS WORKING TOWARD SOMETHING BETTER.

MY STORY, OUR STORY, SO MANY PEOPLE 'S STORY IS ABOUT RACE, POVERTY, AND INJUSTICE AND A SHAMEFUL PART OF THE AMERICAN PAST BUT IT IS EQUALLY ABOUT LOVE, LOYALTY, AND RESILIENCE AND THE POSSIBILITY OF NEW BEGINNINGS.

OF JOY, OF HOPE.

AND THAT LATTER PART IS THE PART THAT I AM TRYING TO FOCUS ON.

AND I THINK THE MORE EMPATHY WE HAVE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT EXACTLY LIKE US , IN OUR CASE, IT IS ME BEING SOUTHERN AND BLACK AND OPENING MYSELF UP TO COUSINS IN CHICAGO WHO ARE MIDWESTERN AND WHITE.

THE MORE WE CAN SEE OTHER PEOPLE AS EXTENSIONS OF OURSELVES , THE MORE WE CAN MOVE OUR COUNTRY FORWARD OUT OF THE POLARIZATION AND GRIDLOCK THAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW AND ESPECIALLY OUT OF THE PITS OF RACIAL ANIMUS THAT SOME OF US , IN THE WAKE OF THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, MANY PROMINENT PEOPLE IN THIS NATION, FRAMING THINGS IN TERMS OF US VERSUS THEM.

I THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT OUR PAST AND GET A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT STILL NEEDS TO BE HEALED IN AMERICA.

>> SUSAN SAULNY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO US.

>> MY PLEASURE.