TOOK IN THEWHITE HOUSE HAS DECLARED CASECLOSED ON THE SIGNAL CHATSCHEDULE.

THE STORY ISFAR FROM OVER.

POLITICO IS REPORTING AT LEAST20 GROUP CHATS HAVE BEEN SET UPON THE APP BY THENATIONALSECURITYADVISOR'S TEAM.

MIKE SPEAKS TO JEFFREYGOLDBERG, WHO EXPOSED THEBOMBSHELL STORY AFTER HE WASADDED TO THECHAT.

>> THANK YOU, WELCOME TO THESHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW YOUGOT INTOA SIGNAL CHAT WITH THEDEFENSE SECRETARY AND THENATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR ABOUTTHE BOMBING THENATIONALSECURITY ADVISOR SAYS THAT HEHAS NEVER MET YOU.

HE CALLED YOU, SCUM, AND SAIDHIS NUMBERGOT SUCKED INTO HISPHONE.

IS IT TRUE THAT HE NEVER METYOU?

>> IS NEVER --IT'S NOT TRUETHAT I AM SCUM.

OPINIONS DIFFER, RIGHT?

CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR.

IS NOT TRUE THAT WENEVER MET.

WE HAVE MET.

IT IS SILLY.

>> DOES HE KNOW THAT YOUHAVEMAC?

IS HE INTENTIONALLY SAYINGTHINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE?

>> BELIEVE IT OR NOT, HE MAYINTENTIONALLY BE SAYING THINGSTHAT ARE NOT TRUE.

ACCORDING TO THE REPORTING BYMAGGIE AND OTHERS, DONALDTRUMP, POST SCANDAL, IN THE MIDDLEOF CONTROVERSY, DONALD TRUMPWAS NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THESIGNAL BREACH.

THE CONTENT OF THE MESSAGES ORANYTHING THAT HE WAS UPSETBECAUSE HE THOUGHT MIKE WALTZMIGHT HAVE BEEN FRIENDSWITHME.

MIKE WENT OUT AND SAID THINGSARE NOT TRUE ABOUT ME AND OURRELATIONSHIP.

I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO IT,BECAUSE I DO NOT COMMENT ONEWAY OR THE OTHERABOUT PEOPLE,PUBLIC FIGURES, SOURCES, I DONOT,ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ABOUTANYTHING.

I JUST NEEDED TO CORRECT THERECORD AND SAY, YES, I KNOWHIM.

LET ME FRAME IT DIPLOMATICALLY--DEFLORATION --DESPERATIONTO KEEP YOUR JOB CAN LEAD SOMEPEOPLE TO SAY THINGS THAT AREUNTRUE, UNWISE, AND ALSOADHOMINEM.

THAT IS ALL I WILL SAY.

>> HE ALSO SAID IT WAS NOT THATCONFIDENTIALOR SECRET.

THAT THERE WAS NO DANGEROUSINFORMATION IN IT.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS TRUE?

>> THAT IS THE ORWELLIAN PARTOF THIS.

HERE IS ONE EXAMPLE OF WHAT WASIN THE CHAT.

PETE HEGSETH, HE SAID,OURTEAMS ARE LAUNCHING IN A HALFHOUR TOATTACK STRONGHOLDTARGETS IN YEMEN.

WE ALL KNOW THATTHEYHAVE ANTI-AIRCRAFT CAPABILITIES.

IT IS NOT A SECRET, NOT THEMOST SENSITIVE INFORMATION--PILOTS, HUMANIST AMERICANSERVICEMEN, FIGHTER PILOTS, AREGOING TOWARD YEMEN IN THENEARFUTURE.

WHAT IS SECRET?

WHAT COUNTS AS SECRET?

IT IS ABSURD.

I AMNOT DISMISSING THE HILLARYCLINTON SERVER IN THE BASEMENTSCANDAL.

I AM SIMPLY GOING TO POINT OUTTHAT HILLARY CLINTON WAS NEVERPUTTING OUT UNCOMMERCIALMESSAGING APPS, THE TIMINGANDTARGETING OF AMERICAN MILITARYOPERATIONS SHORTLY BEFORELAUNCHING.

>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT ITELOQUENTLY IN THE ATLANTIC.

WALKME THROUGH.

YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN ARE INVITEDTO THE GROUP CHECK, WHY DIDN'TYOU IMMEDIATELY SAY, NO THANKS,I AM A JOURNALIST.

>> ISAID, YES,THANKS.

I AM A JOURNALIST.

IT IS MY JOB TO FIND OUT WHATTHE GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

IT IS USUALLY HARDER THAN THIS.

YOU HAVE DONE THAT FOR YEARS ASA JOURNALIST.

EVERYBODY FROM ALYSSA'S ONDOWN, I AM DOWNTHAT CHAIN, YOUSPEND ALL YOUR DAYS TO FIGUREOUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENTISDOING.

THAT IS THE ROLE OF THE PRESSAND THE FREE SOCIETY APPEARSCONNECTED YOU ACTUALLY THINK ITWAS THE NATIONAL SECURITYADVISOR?

>> NO.

THAT IS THE POINT.

TALKING TO COLLEAGUES ABOUTTHIS, I THOUGHTIT WAS ADISINFORMATION OPERATION.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A CAMPAIGN.

I THOUGHT IT WASA HOAX.

A DECEPTION DESIGNED TO ENTRAPME TO DO SOMETHING STUPID OREMBARRASSING AS PEOPLE TARGETJOURNALISTS FOR THAT SORTOFTHING.

I DID SAY TOA COLLEAGUE, WHATARE THE CHANCES THIS IS REAL?

THE COLLIE SAID,NEAR ZERO.

THAT WAS MY CONCLUSION, ASWELL, ALL THE WAY UP TO THEDATE.

THE REASON WE THOUGHT NEARZERO, BECAUSE THIS ISTOOSTUPID TO BE BELIEVED.

>> WHEN DID YOU ALL OF A SUDDENHIT YOU?

>> SATURDAY, THE 15th.

11:44, I SAW A TEXTCOME FROMPETE HEGSETH.

IS SAID THAT IT WAS WHEN THEATTACK WAS GOING TO TAKE PLACE.

THE FIRST BOMBS WILL FALL AT13:30.

I THINK?

THISWAS AT11:44, I AM READINGIT.

I SAID, ALL RIGHT, I WILL SITHERE AND WAIT.

I COULD GO TO SOCIALMEDIAAROUND 2:00 P. M. 1400 EASTERN, TO FIND OUT IFBOMBS ARE FALLING.

THE YEMEN CAPITAL,THEHOOTIE--STRONGHOLD.

IT IS THE SAME TIME THAT THEYARE SAYING THE BOMBS WILL FALL,I WILL KNOW FOR NEAR CERTAINTYIT IS REAL.

>> WHY DID YOU NOT PUBLISH THEWHOLE TRANSCRIPT RIGHT AWAY?

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO PUBLISHA?

>> I DID IT RIGHT AWAY BECAUSEI THOUGHT THERE WAS INFORMATIONIN THE TRANSCRIPT THAT WAS NOTNECESSARY.

THAT IT WAS TOUGH CIGARETTE IDO NOT WANT TOTRAFFICINFORMATION WHEN IT IS ALIVESUBJECT.

THE CAMPAIGN WAS CONTINUING, IDO NOT WANT TO TRAFFICTECHNICAL DETAILS.

MY GOAL IS TO NOT GET AMERICANSHURT.

NUMBER ONE GOAL.

THATMONDAY MORNING, I PULLMYSELF FROM THE CHAPTER MONDAYMORNING I GET IN TOUCH WITHMIKE WALTZ.

AND, STEPHEN MILLER,MARCORUBIO, PETE HEGSETH.

I SEND THEMALL MESSAGES AND ILAID OUT WHAT WAS GOING ON,WHAT I WAS WRITING AND I ASKEDHIM TOCONFIRM THAT THIS ISEVEN TRUE?

THERE IS A REAL SIGNAL GROUPCALLED, HOOTHIE PHILEDACORRIDOR.

ASMALL GROUP.

MIKE WALTZ ORDINATION COMESBACK TWO HOURS LATER AND SAYS,YES, APPARENTLY IT IS A REALCHAIN.

I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED THEYCONFIRMED QUICKLY.

THEY HAD NO CHOICE BECAUSE ITIS REAL.

>> YOU DID NOTPUBLISH THEWHOLE TRANSCRIPT RISK IN NOTTHE WHOLE THING.

NOTHING THATI CONSIDEREDSENSITIVE.

COLLEAGUES CAN JUDGE BETTERTHAN I CAN, TECHNICALOROPERATIONAL, THE PETE HEGSETHTEXTI KEPT ALL BECAUSE THATWAS OPERATIONAL DETAIL.

THEN MIKE WALTZ GOESON TV ANDCALLED ME A SCUMBAGANDDECEITFUL.

PETE HEGSETH SAID THAT I WASSUBHUMAN.

THAT IT ISA HOAX.

DONALD TRUMP SAID THERE WASNOTHING SACRED.

I THOUGHT, OH MY GOD, THAT ISTERRIBLE.

ANYBODY READING THIS KNOWS ITIS SENSITIVE.

TOUGH SEEKER, WHATEVER YOU WANTTO CALL IT.

I CANNOT CLASSIFY IT BECAUSEI'M NOT PRIVY TO THECLASSIFICATION SYSTEM.

IT'S OBVIOUSLYDEEPLYSENSITIVE.

THE NEXT DAY I SAID THAT YOUKEEP SAYING IS NOT SENSITIVE.

SO WE WILL DO THIS EXERCISE, IWILL GO TO EACHRELEVANT AGENCYAND ASKED HIM, IS THEREANYTHING TRULY SENSITIVE THAT ISHOULD WITHHOLD FROMPUBLICATION?

IF YOU TELL ME, NO, I WILLPUBLISH IT.

WE DO THIS EXERCISE OVER THECOURSE OF TUESDAY.

ONLY THE CIA ASKED USTOWITHHOLD.

THE CIA DIRECTOR SAID THERE WASNOTHING SECRET OR SENSITIVE INTHE CHAIN.

HIS OWN PEOPLE ASKED US TOWITHHOLD INFORMATION IN THECHAIN.

WE DID.

NOBODY ELSE CAME.

THEY BUILT A CATCH-22.

THEY HAVE DRIVEN DOWN A CUL-DE-SAC OF THEIR OWN MAKINGBYSAYING IT IS NOT SENSITIVE.

THEY WERE FREE MID TOPUBLISHIT.

THEY WOULD BE OPENING UP TOPOSSIBLE CHARGES OR GROSSNEGLIGENCE.

BY DOWNPLAYING THE IMPORTANCEOFOPERATIONAL SECURITY, BYSAYING IT DIDN'T MATTER, THEYFREED US TO GO OUT TO SAY THATIT IS WHAT IT IS.

AMERICANS READ IT AND JUDGEFORYOURSELVES.

THAT'S WHAT WE DID WE PUT ITOUT, WE CALLED HER BLUFF.

THEY GOADED US IN A DUMBWAY TODO THIS.

I DID NOTWANT TO.

WHEN THEY CALLED THE ATLANTIC,LIARS, THEY CALLED ME A LIAR, ITHOUGHT THAT OUR ROLE AS THEPRESS IS TO LET THE AMERICANPEOPLE DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES IFIT IS SENSITIVEOR NOT?

THAT IS OUR ROLE IN SOCIETY.

WE PUT IT OUT AND PEOPLE MADEJUDGMENTS.

>> WOULD'VE HAPPENED IF IT HADGONE TO SOMEBODY OTHER THANYOU?

>> I'M AN AMERICAN JOURNALIST,NOT JUST A JOURNALIST.

I HAVE BEEN DOING THISNATIONALSECURITY KIND OF WORK FOR ALONG TIME.

YOU MAKE A DECISION EARLY ON,YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SHAREINFORMATION THAT COULD PUTAMERICANS IN HARM'S WAY.

AFTERTHE FACT, YOU CAN AUTOPSYA REPORT.

YOU CAN DO POSTMORTEM ONANYOPERATION.

I'M INTERESTED IN WHY AND HOWTHEY DO THINGS, THEIDEOLOGICALDISPUTES.

I DO NOT NEEDTO KNOWFROM MYPERSPECTIVE THAT THE PLANE ISTAKING OFF AT 12:15, NOT,12:30.

THERE IS THAT.

IF IT HAD FALLEN INTO OTHERHANDS, THAT IS ATHEORETICALQUESTION.

IT IS A NIGHTMARE QUESTION.

HERE IS A SCENARIO, IT COULDHAVE GONE TOA DIPLOMAT WHOSENAME WAS IN HIS PHONE.

HE MIGHT'VE BEEN FRIENDS WITHANOTHER DIPLOMAT AND HECOULD'VE BEEN FRIENDS WITH AIRANIAN DIPLOMAT.

HE COULD'VE BEEN A GAME OFTELEPHONE AND THAT WOULD'VEGIVEN TIME FOR THE HOOTHIE'S TOREARRANGE WHERE THEY WERE ATTHE TIME OR EVENMOREDANGEROUSLY, FOR AMERICANS INTHE AIR, THEY COULD'VE PREPAREDAN ANTIAIRCRAFT PROGRAM THATWOULD'VE BEEN MORE EFFECTIVETHAN IT OBVIOUSLYWAS.

FROM THE NATIONAL SECURITYADVISOR STANDPOINT, A COMPLETEDISASTER PUTTING OUT THATINFORMATION INTO A COMMERCIALAPP.

>> A COUPLE DAYS AFTERYOUPUBLISH, YOU CAME TO NEWORLEANS AND WALKED INANDSURPRISED MY CLASS.

YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR FAMILY'SREACTION.

WHAT YOU CALLED YOUR FAMILY'SGROUP CHAT.

TELLING HOW YOUR FAMILY REACTEDTO ALL OF THIS?

>> AT A CERTAIN POINT ITBECAMECOMICAL.

MIKE WALTZ GOING ON FOX SAYINGTHAT I SOMEHOW SUCK MY PHONENUMBER INTOHIS PHONE NUMBER ORA SIGNAL BREEDS, OR SOMETHING--THEY WERE MAKING UP CRAZYSTORIES.

ELON MUSK WAS GOING TO COMEINVESTIGATE HOW I MANIPULATEDTHE NUMBER INTO HIS PHONE.

ONE OF MY KIDS IN THE SMALLGROUP CHAT WROTE --I THOUGHTIT WAS FUNNY BECAUSE IT'S TRUE,THE MOST AMAZING PART OF THESTORY, DADDY FINALLY FIGUREDOUT HOW TO TAKE A SCREENSHOT.

I AM NOT GIFTED INTHISREALM.

I WILL LITERALLY ASK MY KIDS,SO, YOU PRESS THE BUTTONS ATTHESAME TIME?

THE IDEA THAT I'M IN A RELATEDSIGNAL IS LAUGHABLE.

IT COMES BACK TO THE KEY POINT,THERE ARE A LOT OFCONSPIRACYTHEORIES, I WAS IN HIS PHONEAND ADDEDTO THE GROUP.

WHO THEY MEANT TO ADD, THEYWON'T TELL US.

IT WAS NOT ME.

IN A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEENBULLIED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.

UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS, LAWFIRMS, THEY ALL SEEM TO CAVE.

CAN YOU BE BULLIED BYTHISADMINISTRATION?

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THEYMIGHT DO TO YOU?

>> NO.

I CANNOT BE BULLIED AND I'M NOTWORRIED.

THEY TRY TO DO THINGS TOPEOPLE, THEY TRY.

THAT IS THE PRICE YOU PAY.

THE WHOLE IDEAOF BULLYING,THERE ARE TWO PARTIES TO ABULLYING PROCESS.

THERE IS THE BULLY AND THEPERSON WHO LET THEMSELVES BEBULLIED.

THE LAW FIRMS WHO ARE GIVINGIN, TVNETWORKS, ABC,WASHINGTON POST, THEENDORSEMENT --PEOPLE WHO AREBULLIED THINK THAT IF THEY JUSTGIVE THE THING THAT THE BULLYSAYS HE WANTS, THE BULLYINGWILL STOP.

IT DOES NOT STOP UNTILYOURESIST.

IDON'T KNOW?

I AM NOT SCARED OFTHAT.

THEY WANT TO MESSWITH US OROTHER PEOPLE, I HOPE THEYDON'T, THAT WOULD BE SILLY --BUT, WE HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY INSOCIETY.

THE FREE PRESS HAS A ROLE TOPLAY IN A TRANSPARENTDEMOCRACY, WE WILL PLAY IT.

THAT IS IT.

END OF STORY.

>> WHAT IS THE TRUE LESSON FROMTHIS?

JUST THAT THEY WERE SLOPPYINVITING PEOPLE LIKE YOU INTOGROUP CHATS?

OR A DEEPER LESSON HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP YOUCAN GO?

THEY DID NOT TAKE OPERATIONALSECURITY SERIOUSLY.

THAT SUGGESTS THAT THEY ARE NOTSERIOUS PEOPLE.

PETE HEGSETH IS INTERESTING.

IT'SALMOST COSPLAY.

WE ARE BOMBINGAT MIDNIGHT.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAYSECRETARY OF DEFENSE, YOU ARESECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SHARE THATKIND OF INFORMATION.

MAYBE BECAUSE JUDY VANCE WAS ONTHE CHAT THEY WERE SHOWING OFF?

I DON'T KNOW?

SHOWING OFF FOR THE VICEPRESIDENT, I CAN'T EXPLAIN IT.

THE REAL LESSON HERE, THEKEYSTONE QUALITY OF THISMAKESAMERICA'S ALLIES, WHO AREALREADY WONDERING ABOUT OURALLY SHIP, IT MAKES THEALLIESWONDER IF THESE GUYS ARE NOTFUNDAMENTALLY SERIOUS?

WHAT IS THE BECOME A SERIOUSISSUE?

WHEN THEYARE HESITANT.

UK, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND,NATO, EVERYBODY ELSE--REMEMBER, THIS IS SUBSEQUENTREPORTING, NOT MY OWN, THEISRAELIS HAD A SPY ON THEGROUND OF SOME SORT WHO WASGIVING THEM REAL-TIMEINFORMATION.

THAT HASBEEN REPORTED.

YOUTHE ISRAELIS, YOU'RE LIKE,WE ARE GIVING YOU VERYSENSITIVE INFORMATION ANDYOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT ON ACOMMERCIAL MESSAGING APP?

IT UNDERMINES SECURITY BECAUSEIT MAKES US SEEM LESSTRUSTWORTHY.

>> YOU CAME ON THE SHOW INDECEMBER OF2023, LET ME READBACK SOMETHING YOU SAID THEN.

ANOTHER TRUMPPRESIDENCY POSESNEXT ESSENTIAL THREAT TOAMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

WE ARE 10 WEEKS INTO THISADMINISTRATION, GIVE ME YOURASSESSMENT NOW?

DOES THAT STILL HOLD?

>> YES.

I MEAN, THERE ARE 1 MILLIONTHINGSGOING ON.

WAVE AFTER WAVE AFTER WAVE.

THE LARGER POINT, THEY AREFIRING ASSISTANT U. S. ATTORNEYS, WHO OFFENDEDTHEIRALLIES.

THEIR REMOVING OFFICES WHEREYOU CAN GETGOVERNMENTINFORMATION.

YOU CAN SUE FOR PRIVATEINFORMATION.

THERE DISMANTLINGANYOPERATION, ANY OFFICE INGOVERNMENT THAT COULDINVESTIGATE THEM.

THE FIRST THING YOU DO IF YOUARE AUTHORITARIAN MINDED, YOUNEUTRALIZE ALL THE PEOPLE THATCAN INVESTIGATE YOU FOR THAT ISA PROGRESS OF THE TO GO OFF TODO WHAT YOU WANT.

WE'RE IN THE PHASE NOW.

SOME PEOPLE IN JUDICIARY AREFIGHTING BACK BUT WE AREHEADING TOWARD THE CRISISMOMENT WHERE THEY IGNORE THEJUDGES ORDER.

BUT LOYALISTS IN CHARGE OF THEFBI, YOU ARE TELLING THE WORLDWE WILL NEVER INVESTIGATE OUROWN FLAWS.

THAT PUTS YOU ON THE ROADTOAUTHORITARIANISM.

THAT MEANS THAT THEAMERICANEXPERIMENT AS WE UNDERSTANDTHAT COULD BE COMING TO AN ENDUNLESS ACCOUNTABILITY ISRETURNED TO THE SYSTEM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FORJOINING US.