♪ ♪ ♪ >> Kimberly Robinson, president of the Wake-Robin Women's Golf Club, the oldest African-American women's golf club in America.

And attorney Lisa Colon next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by... Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Over the next 10 years, Comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income Americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything.

♪ ♪ >> Long before famed golfer Tiger Woods dominated the sport, African-Americans flocked to play the game in segregated America.

The Wake-Robin Golf Club, or WRGC, is the first and oldest African-American women's golf club in the United States.

It was founded April 1937 in Washington, D.C., by Helen Webb Harris, a schoolteacher.

Like Harris, many of the WRGC members were the wives of the all-Black, all-male Royal Golf Club in Washington.

In the 1930s, Black men and women were legally barred from playing golf at private and public golf courses across America.

Golf was a sport predominantly played by white men.

However, there were a few exceptions.

John Matthew Shippen Jr. was the first professional African-American golfer.

Shippen competed in the U.S. Open in 1896 and 1902.

Over 40 years later, Ted Rhodes competed in the U.S. Open in 1948.

In 1938, the WRGC and the Royal Golf Club petition to have public golf courses desegregated in Washington.

After extensive pressure in 1939, Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes approved building a nine-hole green called the Langston Golf Course.

It was built on an old trash dump site.

Nevertheless, the WRGC and Royal Golf Club considered it a victory.

It emboldened both golf organizations to continue their fight to desegregate other public facilities, and in 1941, Secretary Ickes opened public golf courses in Washington, D.C., to everyone, regardless of race or gender.

>> Kimberly Robinson, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you, Dr. Chavis.

I appreciate it, and I feel honored to be here today.

>> Now, you are a native of Washington, D.C. >> I am.

I am.

>> So tell us how golf became of interest to you.

You went to school in my home state of North Carolina.

You're an accountant, successful business person.

So what led you to have an interest in golf?

>> Actually, it took marriage to bring me to golf.

I got married.

My husband was an avid golfer.

Still is and and so that I wouldn't be a golf widow, I said I need to take up the sport.

>> Now explain what is a golf widow?

Your husband is still alive.

>> Yes.

>> So what is a golf widow?

>> A golf widow is when the husband goes off to play golf and the woman is left at home.

And so I didn't want to be that wife to be left at home.

I wanted to be able to participate and join in.

And so I sought out Wake-Robin, became a member, met up with ladies who were playing golf, had the same interests as I did, and went out and started learning to play.

And here I am.

>> Well, let's talk about this historic African-American Women's golf club.

1937?

>> 1937.

>> That's a long time.

>> It's a long time.

>> Next year will be 85 years.

>> Correct, correct.

>> I went back and did some research on your golf club and I saw you had members at one time in the 90s, and now you have members in their late or early 20s.

So it's intergenerational.

>> It is.

It is.

And that's what's kept us flourishing is that we have been able to stay on the ground, stay in the fight and recruit women of color into the organization.

We do a lot of work with the First Tee programs here in the Washington metropolitan area.

That's how we recruit members as well as recruit individuals to receive our annual scholarship.

>> So you do have an annual scholarship program?

>> Yes.

>> Is the scholarship specifically for young women in golf?

>> Yes, it is.

It's specific to those who have participated in golf while they're in high school, if their high schools had golf programs or they have come through the First Tee programs and they're going to go off to college and actually do some-- either play on a golf team or major in some golf-related field.

>> I really want our listeners to understand that there was a point in our history in our nation where golf was racially segregated.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So how did the Wake-Robin Golf Club back in 1937 even come into being?

>> The club came into being through advocacy.

And at the time, as you said, the courses were segregated.

There was not a course here in the Washington, D.C., area for African-American men nor women to play... >> In the nation's capital.

>> ...in the nation's capital.

I do believe there was one course that opened up that men were able to go to, but women were not able to go to.

And it was through the advocacy work of our founding members that us, along with our brother club, the Royals, petitioned the Department of Interior to give us a place to play.

And at that time it was what is now Langston.

It was a dump.

It was literally a dump where broken glass, rubble was there.

>> On a golf course?

>> Well, it wasn't a golf course at the time.

It was a dump.

>> So you transformed a dump into a golf course.

>> We transformed that dump into a golf course, which is now Langston Golf Course there off of Benning Road in Northeast.

>> People not only learn golf there but go on to excel.

I know that some players started playing at Langston over the years have really done well for themselves, both men and women.

>> Yes, and they have a very robust First Tee program that operates out of the Langston location.

>> For our viewers, explain what is the First Tee program.

>> First Tee is a program that introduces minority and disadvantaged youth to the sport of golf.

It gets them interested, and it also provides them with life lessons.

So it's learning how to play golf and then also helping with some life lessons.

>> What are some of the benefits of being a member of the Wake-Robin Women's Golf Club?

>> The benefits are our giveback, our continued advocacy to make sure that we are represented in golf, introducing golf to young women, being able to keep the sport going because a lot of your public schools do not have golf teams.

They're more in your private schools where you'll see a golf team.

So the moneys and resources that can be put towards First Tee programs is needed.

And we as Wake-Robin, are very supportive of the First Tee programs.

>> There seems to be a growing diversity.

What's your perspective?

Are you seeing more and more African-Americans and other people of color participate in golf?

>> I see a lot having an interest in golf and participating in golf.

But what our challenges are as African-Americans participating in golf is the cost behind it.

That's where we then start to lack off as far as we're not getting any further than that and not getting on tour.

>> Tell me, how do you help other women who may not have the financial wherewithal but certainly have the inclination and the interest?

Is there some way to help young people, particularly sisters, who want to get involved in golf to get across that initial financial hurdle?

>> We do have within our scholarship program an avenue to help those who are wanting to get on course, get into Q-School and make it into the LPGA.

We are constantly doing fundraising, so our scholarship fund isn't that large right now, but we try to help as much as we can.

>> As the current president of Wake-Robin Golf Club, what is your greatest challenge right now?

>> Making sure that we do not lose sight on why we started as a club.

>> Right.

>> Because we did start due to advocacy, so to make sure that we continue that advocacy and we move the club forward.

>> Thank you, Kimberly Robinson, president of the Wake-Robin Golf Club, for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you, Dr. Chavis, and it's an honor and a pleasure to be here.

♪ ♪ >> Lisa Colon, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure to be here.

>> How does a sister like you get involved in construction law?

>> Oh, boy, you know, I wish it was -- I wish it was a story that was sexier than it is.

But actually, I got out of law school and I was looking for work.

I got out of law school at the turn of the century, and at that time in South Florida, the real-estate market was booming.

Everybody was a developer.

I don't know if you remember back in the early 2000s, I mean, we couldn't build buildings fast enough.

We couldn't build homes fast enough.

Everybody bought an apartment building and flipped it to a condominium.

And that's what was really going on at the time I got out of law school, so there was an opportunity there for me to get into that business.

I started to work at a firm that did real estate and litigation work, and so I've cut my teeth in all sorts of litigation, but really dealing with real estate.

And then the opportunity came up where the partners I worked for did their first project.

I mean, they actually developed the project themselves.

It was not a legal -- You know, they went out and were developers, and I was the associate that worked in the law firm that said, "Hey, I'll go learn the construction side of this" because nobody knew what we were doing.

And I kind of just -- I learned it and I -- you know, you just keep learning and you keep doing and you keep getting experience.

And then it was one point in my career where I had to really figure out, "Am I going to do this for real?

Like, can I get business?

Can I survive in this very white-male-dominated industry?"

And when I say white-male-dominated, obviously the legal field is still white-dominated.

But the legal industry has made some headways with diversity.

But the construction industry, in terms of ownership of businesses and the people who are decision makers and the folks who are running construction companies is still very white-male-dominated even till today.

And so I had to make a decision whether I wanted to stay in this business, whether I could thrive here.

And I decided, you know, here's an opportunity to just do something different because there's not many people that look like me when I enter the room.

I talk about being the only one in the room and being comfortable with that.

And, you know, you really have to -- That's kind of how it defines my -- That defined my career, being comfortable being the only one in the room.

>> Exactly.

Well, you certainly were at the right place at the right time with the right education and the right commitment.

And now you're a partner in a major law firm in South Florida.

Tell us how it is to be a partner.

Most people know lawyers that work for law firms, but very few persons of color make partner.

>> You know, and it's so true and it's so sad that we -- I read an article recently that said 27% of law associates -- so associates in major law firms are people of color.

So 27% are African-Americans and Latinos.

And so we're doing well, getting us in the door.

But of that, that same article said less than 10% of partnerships right now are people of color.

Some of the big law firms that are -- There was an article that Law360 recently published.

It said that -- that recognized the most diverse legal partnerships in the country.

And even if you looked at those numbers, some of the big law firms, they're coming in at 13%, 10% to 13% of equity partnerships of people of color, which is still not even representative of the profession right now.

It's not even, you know, where we are in law school.

So I think that, you know, it's very hard.

It takes a certain level of commitment.

It takes a certain level of individual -- what I call individual gumption.

You have to have a very thick skin and you have to be comfortable with not having anybody to teach you or to mentor you.

And that's why I kind of -- you know, I faced that a lot, and that's one of my commitments in paying it forward, that I mentor younger lawyers, not necessarily even at my firm, but any Black woman that I can get my hands on that's in the legal field, I want to pull her up because I know what it is to be a very young attorney and just nobody's inviting you to lunch and, you know, you don't identify with anyone.

We spend a lot of time in the office and, you know, if you don't have anyone there that looks like you and if you don't have anyone there that you can rely upon and just go talk to, it's very, very isolating and a lonely place to be.

So I think that that's why a lot of young African-Americans and a lot of young Latinos do not survive in these big, big law firms because they just don't have anyone there to rely on, to look to look up to.

>> Absolutely, and at our time, Lisa, as you know, there's a national discussion about diversity, equity and inclusion.

Talk about that issue in the construction industry today.

>> Well, you know, the construction industry is one of the industries that still lag behind diversity.

And it's something that, you know, unfortunately -- and I'm putting aside the legal aspect of it, right?

But we're talking just the business aspect of it.

Unfortunately, there's still a lot of multinational and big construction companies, they talk diversity, but when you take a look at their numbers, they still lag behind in other industries with their diversity efforts.

And it's one of the industries when you look at it from afar, you wonder, do they -- I often ask myself, "Do they care?"

Do they really care about diversifying their ranks?

Now, you look at who does the labor, right?

And that's certainly mostly people of color.

I mean, the folks who are on the projects doing the actual work, a lot of -- Latinos make up the largest percentage of construction workers in this country.

But when you go in house and, you know, you look at the folks who are managing the project, the folks who are the supervisors of the project and the owners of these companies are still majority white males.

And it's an industry that is far, far behind in diversity efforts.

And, you know, I can only -- And that has also, for me, affected the way I have to think about marketing myself, legal services, to construction companies.

Like everything else, we did it in the legal industry, raising awareness, raising awareness, raising awareness.

Any time I get an opportunity to talk in the construction industry about diversity, I try to.

So it's just, you know, again, chipping away at that large iceberg.

[ Chuckles ] That's where we are in the construction industry.

>> Can you talk to us about the opportunities today, particularly for people of color in the construction industry in America?

>> There is a lot of opportunity there.

The DBE program is a program that is set up by the federal government run through the Department of Transportation through each state.

So if you are a contractor and you can do any type of highway work, concrete, asphalt, paving, striping, anything in that arena, I would suggest you get out there and you look for certification in the DBE and see if you can put yourself in line to start thinking about positioning your business to get some of this work.

Right now, some of the states are meeting goals for DBE participation anywhere from 10% to 13%.

So I mean, even if we don't do better than 10% right now, 10% of a trillion dollars, do the math.

That's a lot of business, a lot of money that can flow back into our community.

>> Can you break down for our listeners the acronym DBE?

>> Sure.

DBE is Disadvantaged Business Enterprise, and it's a federal program that's administered by the Department of Transportation.

And basically the DBE program is a certification program for mi-- for all sorts of businesses.

So if you can sell anything, any kind, any state department of transportation, if you can be involved in any way -- And sometimes we only think about construction because that's where the most DBE dollars go.

Think about the federal government buys everything, right?

I mean, they procure technology, they procure not only construction, they procure any type of material, any type of widget.

Right?

So if you identify as a person of a historically disadvantaged community and the law classifies Hispanics, African-Americans, Native Americans -- there's a list of racial and ethnicities that are identified as historically disadvantaged through the law.

If you are, if you own your company 51% or more, you can qualify for the DBE program.

>> And you go to the Department of Transportation for that advice and counsel on DBE?

>> Yes.

I would start at your state level department of transportation.

So usually each state, it's -- like, for example, Florida, it's FDOT.

Minnesota is MDOT.

So look -- just Google your state's department of transportation, put in the word "DBE" and the certification program, and all of the information should be on your state's D.O.T.

website.

>> Do they teach construction law as a course of study?

How does one get expertise in construction law?

>> Some law schools do offer construction law.

I can't remember if the University of Miami did when I was there, but it probably didn't.

But I know now they do.

They do teach construction law.

A lot of other universities have it on their program, but probably not enough.

Right?

And so I mean, a lot of -- Those who are in STEM, those who are, you know -- a lot of law students have degrees -- To get into law school, you don't need a major in anything particular in undergrad to get into law school.

You need good grades, you need to do well on the ELSA and you can get into law school.

But I will encourage folks who are an undergrad in STEM majors -- engineering, architecture, even biology and chemistry -- that are looking that probably want to do -- "What's next with my career?

Perhaps I don't want to -- you know, I have a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering or I have a bachelor's degree in some other STEM field and I don't know what I want to do" or perhaps considering law school, go to law school and really take a look at construction law, environmental law and those areas.

I find that my colleagues that have a technical background -- I did not.

I studied history and political science.

They seem to master this field just because they speak the language.

They speak the language coming out of law school.

They have experience working in the industry, interning in the industry, so they know their way around.

They know their way around a construction project.

They know how to read plans right off the bat.

So I would consider if you are interested in this field, you know, and you have a technical background, it's definitely an opportunity there, and we can sure use some more people of color in construction law.

Lisa doesn't want to be the only person in the room anymore.

I want to see young folks coming into this area of law and exploring different areas of law, not just construction law.

You know, there's a lot of -- Sometimes we get pigeonholed when we're in law school because we're a person of color or because we are Latino.

Now we're supposed to do immigration or go be a public defender or prosecutor or do family law if you're a woman, and nothing's wrong with those areas of law.

I mean, I have lots of friends that do very well in those areas of law.

But there's -- Law is like medicine now where it's so highly specialized.

There are opportunities to trailblaze and to knock down doors and to bust glass ceilings in different areas of law outside of the traditional sense of where we normally end up.

>> Lisa Colon, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you so much.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by... Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Over the next 10 years, Comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income Americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything.

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