♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Kornisha McGill Brown, the national president of Jack and Jill of America, Inc. Next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> We're very honored to have the national president of Jack and Jill of America, Inc., Kornisha McGill Brown.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you, Dr. Chavis.

It is my pleasure to be here and such an honor to join you today.

>> So tell us about Jack and Jill.

I know you're a national organization, one of the largest organizations of African-Americans.

Tell us about the beginning of Jack and Jill, its mission and purpose.

>> Yes.

Well, Jack and Jill was established in 1938, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, by two very good friends who understood the importance of having an organization for our children.

As you can imagine, during that time of segregation, we were very limited in the opportunities for our children.

So when the organization was established in Philadelphia, I am sure that our founders knew that, in the community, they wanted this to happen, but I'm sure they would be very, very proud of how much it has grown.

We've gone from that one chapter out of Philadelphia to 252 chapters nationwide.

>> Wow.

>> We have a total of 17,000 mother members and associates, and we represent 70,000 family members in total.

We're in seven regions, and we are growing.

As a matter of fact, we have new interest groups asking to come in all of the time.

But we're so proud of the work that we do.

We're a mothers' organization, and our mission is to nurture future African-American leaders, and we are on mission, on purpose to achieve this goal.

>> Well, thank you.

You know, a lot has happened to Black Americans since 1938, when Jack and Jill of America, Inc. was first founded.

In particular, I'm very interested -- and I know our audience will be interested to know -- that one of the young people who were the Jack and Jill team was from Birmingham, Alabama, 60 years ago.

Tell us about that.

>> Yes.

You know, we just recently commemorated the 60th anniversary of the 16th Street Church bombing.

It happened on September 15th, 1963.

It rocked our nation to its core.

Carole Robertson was one of our very own, and she was 14 years old at the time, and her mother was our first regional director of the southeastern region.

So, in the city of Birmingham, of course, it hit home in a different way.

We committed in 1964 to assuring that we would not let her legacy and the lives of the other girls who were killed in the bombing, that their legacy would live on.

So since 1964, our organization has held a tribute or commemoration for Carole Robertson every September.

So, for six decades, we have been doing this, and we want to make sure that our children know their stories, because if we don't tell their stories, no one else will.

So we know the impact.

And I also want to add that, when I was regional director of the southeastern region, you know, I asked the question, please show us where they're buried, because, you know, in in different phases you always see monuments, but you really don't see the plot or the grave sites of where they're buried.

And, so, we were able to locate their grave sites, and we made a commitment as an organization to beautify those grave sites and to support the families in any way that we can to ensure that we lay flowers or have our children just go out and to know where they are so that that their memory can live on.

And, so, we're happy to report that the grave sites have been beautified through the Ballard House Project out of Birmingham.

The city has really wrapped their arms around making sure that the grave sites are, you know, are well tended to.

And we're also very -- We're supported by the Home Depot there.

And they make sure that the graves are, you know, kept up and everything.

So it really has made a difference in knowing that Jack and Jill is playing a role in ensuring that their legacies live on.

>> There's a national discourse, some would say even a debate, about the importance of Black history, about the importance of knowing what the legacies are.

From a Jack and Jill perspective, can you just emphasize how important legacy and history, not only for African-Americans, but all Americans need to know this history?

>> Absolutely.

This is very, very important to us because, as you know, we are facing, you know, a huge, you know, fight is really what it is to ensure that our history and all history, as you stated, is not erased out of our classrooms.

It's causing us to have to work even harder to ensure that, year after year, day after day, that we reflect in all that we do and say, our history and everyone's history, how important it is to know the truth.

You know, you can't really improve or go forward unless you know from whence you've come.

And we know that our future leaders must understand their role.

How they've arrived here, how we've arrived as, you know, a Black community, and just how it also interacts and connects with others.

The importance of knowing who we are and why things happen the way that they are.

It's not about shaming anyone or making any other group look bad.

It's really about uplifting us to know that together we can accomplish more.

But we must know our history and where we came from.

>> The Bible says the truth will set us free.

>> Amen.

>> And you know, in Texas and Florida, just those two states, they're trying to ban books, change curriculum, very pointedly going after to try not only to erase our history, but pretend like the history never existed.

How are your chapters in Texas and Florida dealing with those states where the governors, in particular, of those two states seem to be leading the charge against African-American history and legacy?

>> You know, in some cases, of course, it has been, you know, challenging because you definitely know that, from the school boards and, you know, all of those votes that are taking place, that there's not always, you know, a seat at the table for us.

>> And you're an educator, you know how important education is.

>> I do, and everyone truly understands that.

And we're all mothers, you know, we all want our children to be educated, but factually, you know, as well.

For those two states, though, I do think that this is an added fuel to ensure that they understand the importance of our work as an organization.

So it actually has added more emphasis to our purpose and why we must continue to provide our children with the cultural experiences, the historical facts that they all need, that if they don't get it in the classroom, that they know that they can get it through Jack and Jill.

And Jack and Jill, although, you know, it is a mother's membership, you know, organization, it is by invitation, but, also, we do a lot of work in the community.

And I do want everyone to know that if there's a Jack and Jill chapter where they're located, there are awesome opportunities for the community to get involved in some of the events that we host.

And through these events, this is how we continue to ensure that not just our children, but all children are educated about the importance of Black history.

>> You mentioned earlier about the importance of service.

Tell us of some of the key service projects that Jack and Jill is engaged.

>> Absolutely.

Well, we definitely have a major focus on service.

You know, our children participate in community service projects throughout the program year, and we also have partners who support us.

So we have our partners with the American Red Cross.

We have partnership actually to support HBCUs.

You know, Morehouse and Spelman is a partnership.

And we also have through our work with St. Jude's.

So there are different ways.

It may look different in in all of the chapters, but they know that, within their own communities, we must focus on, how can we support those who are in need?

It may be where there are book drives for students who need, you know, books to, you know, be able to read.

Also through the homeless population.

We do a lot of work, especially during the holidays, to make sure that our homeless are fed, you know, and clothed.

We also have a philanthropic arm, which is our foundation.

And our teens, they actually raise money to support our foundations that provide grants throughout the country.

So we have actually raised over $2 million through the work of our teens, and what they do is fundraising to support these philanthropic efforts.

So our teams are very engaged and our children all across the board in service.

>> So are you training and nurturing young people to be philanthropists even while they're teenagers?

>> Absolutely, yes.

And we also have the loose change product -- our Loose Change program, which we say, "Change shouldn't be as loose as it used to be."

So we do ask for, you know, the paper bills to come in, but we definitely have them to raise money because the loose change also goes back to support our communities, as well.

>> When you move around the United States, do you find more people willing to get involved in service organizations?

What's the level of responsiveness?

>> You know, I am very, very proud of, you know, the attention that our African-American organizations are now receiving.

You know, I look back at 1938 and we know that it was needed as far as an organization of Jack and Jill at that time.

>> Particularly in 1930s, 1940s.

>> Absolutely.

But in 2023, the need is still here.

And it really does show that we, as a community, are... awake.

You know, we are alert.

We realize that it takes a unified community in order to really, really improve the challenges that we're facing.

And I think I feel -- I feel that more unity has definitely been accomplished over these last few years in all of our organizations.

You know, there used to be a time that it was like, okay, your organization does this, mine does that, but now we're all collaborating to ensure that we are meeting the needs of all of the members of our community, from the children to the adults.

Not about gender, not about what colors you wear, but this is all about who we are and who we want our future leaders to be.

>> I noticed in your bio, you're not only the leader of Jack and Jill, but you're in AKA, you're in The Links, you're in all these organizations.

But these organizations work together.

>> We do, we do.

We have a sisterhood roundtable is what we like to call it.

We definitely rely on each other.

And we know that, in these leadership roles, it takes the support of each other in order to make the right decisions, you know, for our organizations.

So it is a sense of pride that I always feel when I can connect with my other sister presidents, especially as being a member of these other organizations, knowing that we're all in this together for the betterment of our community.

>> Out of all of what you see and all of what you've been through in your own life and your family and now with Jack and Jill, what gives you your greatest hope for the future?

>> The children.

The work that we do in Jack and Jill, and the opportunity to interact with these children on a regular basis.

They are amazing.

They have exactly what it takes.

Sometimes I look at them and say, "You know a little bit more than the adults do."

So I know that our future is in great hands and that is what inspires me every day.

That is what motivates me every day.

You know, I must say, you know, my husband supports me in every way, as you know.

>> Your husband's a physician.

>> He's a physician, he's an emergency room physician.

And of course, when we went through the pandemic, it was extremely challenging for our household, but the future was what I could continue to see, and that the children will lead the way.

And we are so very proud of what we're doing in this organization, just to be an instrument, just to pour into them so that they can reach their full potential.

And I'm so excited about all the work ahead and the great things that they will do.

>> Kornisha McGill Brown, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having me.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> We're very pleased to welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles" one of our nation's leading physicians, particularly in women's health, Dr. Angela Marshall.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm honored to be here.

>> So you are from Michigan.

You were born in Michigan?

>> Yes.

Born in a little small town called Jackson, Michigan.

And when I was five, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia.

Spent my childhood down there.

>> Was there anyone else in your family, in the medical profession, or are you the first?

>> I'm the first.

And in fact, I grew up in a single parent household in abject poverty in the South, and I was the first person in my family to get a four-year degree and the first one to go to medical school.

>> So tell me, what attracted you to the medical profession?

>> Growing up without health insurance was a major factor.

And we'll talk a little bit about my book, "Dismissed," but the first time I was dismissed, I was eight years old, and I was suffering from headaches, and my mother saved all her money to take me to the doctor.

And long story short, the doctor said, "There's nothing wrong with her."

And that was the first time I was dismissed, was when I was eight years old.

And I found out later, when I went to medical school, that I actually suffer from migraine headaches and just -- >> But at eight years old, they didn't diagnose you.

>> They didn't diagnose me.

>> You were "dismissed," quote, unquote.

>> Dismissed, yes.

And my mother was like, "Oh, I spent all this money to take you to the doctor and there's nothing wrong with you?"

And, so, I think that definitely had an impact on me.

>> Why do you think the medical professions dismisses some and embraces others?

>> I think some of it has to do with when patients present without objective findings.

For example, migraine headaches is a diagnosis that we make clinically.

There aren't any tests that we do to prove that someone has migraine headaches.

And, so, when patients don't have objective findings, it behooves the doctor, they have to believe the patient.

And I think sometimes there's a problem with believing patients or there's a problem with hearing patients.

And I think there are differences in how patients experience that in the health care system.

>> Wow.

And, so, your book, which has the same title, "Dismissed," tell us why you wrote this book.

>> Well, I wrote it because I've been practicing for 24 years, and my perspective has been on both sides of the health care system, both as a doctor and as a patient.

And what I've seen is that different people have different experiences, they have different treatments, and they have different outcomes, and I'm convinced that those are related.

>> Tell us some of the disparities and inequities that you have run into, first as a physician.

>> When I wrote this book, I wanted to make sure that it wasn't an indictment against physicians, because I think that, by and large, most physicians care about their patients.

They want to do the right thing.

I think sometimes there is bias that's conscious and sometimes it's unconscious.

But what I found is that different patients get different treatment, and sometimes it has to do with factors related to who they are.

Things like race, things like gender, things like age, even obesity sometimes can affect how much doctors pay attention to your care, how much they hear you, and how much they care for you.

>> So what is the remedy?

You need better training in medical school or the medical journals?

How do we deal with this issue of disparities in terms of the notion -- and you have pointed out it's a false notion -- but it's still a notion that's out there?

>> Well, I think we need more cultural competencies because I find that, in the health care system, a lot of times, it's more difficult for physicians to treat patients that are different from them.

And, you know, a lot of physicians will say, "Hey, I'm not biased.

You know, I don't have bias."

But the reality is it's human to have bias.

And, so, I think the first thing we have to do is recognize that we all have bias.

And, you know, if we don't recognize and address our bias, then, you know, this thing stays the same.

And, so, I think it's important to know that everyone has bias.

And I think it's important to learn more about different cultures.

You know, there are different communication styles.

There are different myths that we have in certain communities.

There's some things that are based on misinformation.

You know, things like in the African-American community where, you know, people are afraid if you cut open cancer, it spreads, you know.

So there are all kinds of things that are more prevalent in certain cultures than others.

And, so, I think we just need -- We need better education.

We need to educate ourselves on the different cultures.

When I wrote this book, I originally wanted to write it from the African-American perspective, you know.

When things go wrong with me, one of the first things I think, "Is it because I'm Black?"

But I realize that it's not just for Black folks.

There are other folks who feel just as disenfranchised in the health care system as we do.

A lot of times, women feel not heard.

You know, folks that are older may feel unheard.

And, so, it's really important, as we're addressing this from a racial standpoint, we also look at other factors, as well.

>> Well, it seems to me that the complexity that you're describing does require not only education, but reeducation and continuing education.

So how do doctors get continuing education on some of these points?

>> Well, first of all, we have to unlearn some things and we have to relearn some things.

And, so, in medical school, they teach us textbook presentations of things, like for example, if you're having a heart attack, there are certain textbook symptoms that we look for.

But knowing that certain people experience heart attacks differently.

Not everyone has crushing chest pain in the center of their chest.

And, so, we have to be able to listen to our patients and be able to discern more and be able to open our minds and not just look for textbook presentations, because many patients have very complex presentations, and we have to be open to those.

>> I read recently that there's still a shortage of Black doctors, Black nurses, Black health care professionals at a time that the American population is getting older.

>> Yes.

>> So how are we going to bridge this gap of needing more health care professionals serving communities of color in America?

>> Well, we desperately need more Black doctors.

Studies have shown time and time again that Black patients do better when they're cared for by Black doctors.

So we need more black doctors.

We currently make up only 5% of our nation's doctors, whereas, in society, we're around 12% to 13%.

And, so, we need more Black doctors.

We need more patients to be able to access doctors who look like them.

>> What are some of the things that you would recommend to young people who may have some aspirations to be a doctor?

>> Well, I'd like to inspire all the young folks who are interested in medicine to consider becoming a doctor.

So often I hear from young people, "I can't do that."

Or sometimes I hear from parents, "Oh, my child can't -- I can't see them becoming a doctor."

And, so, we have to stop putting limits on our aspirations because we desperately need more Black doctors.

Also, I think we have to start earlier.

We have to start preparing our kids in STEM education, science, learning that studying science and math is fun, it can be fun.

And it's not nerdy to like science or like math.

And, so, I think we have to start early, before high school.

We have to start as early as elementary school and inspire these kids to consider the field of medicine.

>> Well, what are the pathways for people to learn more about STEM professions?

>> There are a couple of organizations that I highly recommend.

One is the National Medical Association.

There's the Student National Medical Association.

There's also a nonprofit that we founded, it's called Premedical Explorers, that we formed after we lost our beloved Dr. Susan Moore.

And that's something that we started in order to inspire high school students to pursue careers in medicine, as well.

>> In terms of health care for women, what gives you your greatest hope today?

>> I think what gives me my greatest hope is the fact that women are a very powerful sector of our society, and women have voices.

And I'm so encouraged that more and more women are using their voices, and they're using their voices at the ballot.

And, so, I hope that more women will vote for women's health so that we can make some much-needed changes in the health care system.

>> Dr. Angela Marshall, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you for having me.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our web site at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also follow us on Facebook, X -- formerly known as Twitter -- LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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