March 28, 2023

♪ Christiane: Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Amanpour & Company."

President Biden: Ripping the soul of the nation, the very soul of the nation.

Christiane: American tragedy, American failure.

I speak with Dr. Joseph, trauma surgeon and gun violence survivor.

Plus... >> This is our goal, to reach agreement among you and among ourselves.

Christiane: Benjamin Netanyahu buys more time after pausing his polarizing judicial overhaul.

Walter Isaacson speaks with the former U.S. ambassador to Israel.

>> If it doesn't humble you, I don't know what will.

Christiane: From grand slam champion to slammer, I speak with Boris Becker and director Alex Gibney about the new documentary about his dramatic rise and fall and redemption.

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At mutual of America we believe taking care of tomorrow can help you make the most of today.

Additional support provided by these funders and by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you.

Thank you.

Christiane: welcome to the program, I'm Christiane Amanpour , we begin with a photograph taken by a Nashville generalist that sadly says at all, a child weeping on a school bus as she is evacuated from the scene of the latest American horror.

It's one day after another mass shooting, this time at a private Christian elementary school in Nashville, Tennessee, raising this same vital, unanswered question, how long will this remain the norm?

How long before government steps in to actually save lives and anguish, like they have after such disasters and many other democratic nations.

President Biden sounds exasperated.

President Biden: I have gone the full extent of my executive authority.

Congress has tagged.

The majority of the American people thinks having assault weapons is bizarre.

Christiane: firearms are the leading cause of death among American children and adolescents between the age of one and 19.

In Nashville, three children were among the six slaughtered at their school.

Earlier today the mayor wrestled with the same questions that so many are asking.

>> When are we going to learn?

We are a grieving city.

Guns can be Second Amendment, for sure, but they can also be a little bit of a cold.

Let's keep them out of the hands of people who should not be having them.

Christiane: a bit of a cult indeed.

National police called the attack calculated and planned.

I guessed tonight is a survivor -- my guest tonight is a survivor of gun violence.

He survived a bullet to the throat and now he's a trauma surgeon in Baltimore, Maryland.

Welcome to the program.

As we said, and I'm sure you see it through your trauma rooms in the emergency rooms, firearms are the leading cause of death.

They are not all mass shootings but they are firearm deaths.

What are you seeing in your trauma rooms right now?

>> thank you so much for having me, I just want to say how tragic it is that we continue to wake up day after day in America, watching our children being slaughtered in schools.

You are absolutely right, for the first time in 40 years, firearm injury has eclipsed motor vehicle crashes in motor vehicle fatalities to become the leading cause of death in children and adolescents.

I want you to think about that for a second.

It's not cancer, it's not poisoning, it's not car crashes, it's gun related injury.

And we are seeing this not only as you appropriately articulated in mass shootings, but we see it every day in cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Chicago and it's disproportionately impacting communities of color.

It's absolutely tragic and it's preventable.

We have both the opportunity and responsibility to tackle this public health problem in a way that allows us to prevent these kids, these babies from being killed on our streets and in our schools.

Christiane: can I just ask you, because it's clear this is a major issue for you, and the fact you are a bit of an activist trying to get sensible laws around this.

I know you've been up all night, you've had overnight duty, so you are tired.

Remind our viewers how -- what was the circumstance of you getting a bullet wound to the throat and surviving?

>> I come to this conversation when I was a healthy high school senior and I was hanging out after a high school football game with friends, the way teenagers do, and a fight broke out that we had nothing to do with and a guy pulled out a gun and started firing it into the crowd.

I got hit in the throat with a 38 caliber bullet.

I was 17, I had no idea what I wanted to do in life.

That moment inspired me to go into medicine and inspired me to become a trauma surgeon and to be able to give other people the second chance I was given.

What I've realized going down this path is that, despite how good we may think we are as health care professionals, despite how excellent our trauma centers may be, the best medical treatment is prevention.

That's why we have been, as health care professionals, advocating and working at this intersection of public health and policy to approach this as the public health problem that it is.

Christiane: do you think of enough Americans who are sitting on the sidelines, not those who have lost their loved ones to these terrible wounds, but do you think people in Congress or elsewhere, local officials, people resisting what the majority of Americans want, do you think they know what these bullets due to the bodies of their families?

Do you think they know what it looks like to see a shot up victim of an assault rifle that has no business being anywhere except in a war zone?

>> I don't think they do.

In fact, I think this conversation around these shootings, we have become so desensitized.

It's not just shootings, these are massacres.

When you think about the people that actually really understand the carnage that's happening on our streets in America, it's those children that are witness to it, it's those parents that have to identify those bodies, it's the frontline providers, like law enforcement and health care professionals and medical examiners that get this unique glimpse into the devastating destruction that these weapons do.

In fact, we just finished working with an incredible team at the Washington Post to help illustrate an outline what assault rifles and handguns due to the human body.

Christiane: I don't want you to physically describe it because it's horrible.

I'm sure this re-traumatizes you and perhaps traumatizes the number of professionals, from the medical examiner, to the doctors and nurses, to the funeral directors, all those people who come across this all the time.

>> yes, it's tragic.

In the moment, we as health care professionals are making one methodical decision after another to try to save that person's life.

Before a long time we have pushed aside and swallowed the mental and emotional trauma that exists from having to take care of these often young people that are being injured and killed.

So there's an opportunity and a term we use, the second victim effect.

Which is, all these people that surround the person that's injured.

This happens to us in communities when you think about the families that are impacted, the communities that are decimated, and a country that continues to be re-traumatized time and time again.

I cannot accept this as a reality for America, and I don't think any of us should.

Christiane: you just mentioned the joint investigation you participated in with the Washington Post, and numerous studies have found that laws not just restricting the assault rifles, but restricting magazine sizes actually reduces casualties.

Do you agree with that?

>> yes, I think when you look at this problem, the most important thing to understand is that there is no one solution.

That's why it's a complex public health problem.

It requires us to really implement a multifaceted, multidisciplinary approach.

That also is as it relates to the policies, the data driven policies that we need to pass.

Part of it is regulating the assault weapons, but also, as you said, limiting the magazines.

There's no reason someone should have a 100 round drum.

You can imagine the type of casualty and destruction you can cause with it.

Christiane: we played a little bit of a soundbite from President Biden today where he sounded exasperated and specifically said, I have gone to the limit of what I can do using executive orders, now it's up to Congress.

Today, CNN talked to Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, I need to quote him, he said "I would say we've gone about as far as we can go, unless somebody identifies some area we didn't address.

The president just comes back to the same old tired talking point's, so he's not offering new solutions or ideas.

If he does, I think we should consider them, but so far, I haven't heard anything."

Is that correct that it's the same old tired talking points that get put across to Congress, or is he dodging this issue?

>> let me say first that I was glad to see that Senator Cornyn joined in helping pass the bipartisan safer communities act.

But the reality is there is more we can do.

That was the first step.

We could do you think sake expanding universal background checks and closing loopholes to make sure that people who should have firearms don't get their hands on it.

We can do things like ensuring that we regulate assault weapons and magazine sizes.

We can ensure we have extremist protection orders in every state.

I would respectfully disagree that there is nothing else we can do.

The reality is that no one person or one organization will solve this problem.

This is not a Republican issue or a Democratic issue, it's a uniquely American issue.

We have the responsibility to put our children first.

I'm willing to bet you that if you were to ask people how many more and if you asked if it was their family member, the answer would be zero.

I know it sounds hypothetical or people sit at home in their living rooms, but the reality is, if one of us is not safe, none of us is safe.

We have to move forward, come together and get off the sidelines of history.

Christiane: as you are speaking, it's very powerful and very sensible.

Yet, people who are elected to high office continue to fetishize what they believe the cult, as the mayor of Nashville says, about owning and using guidance.

So much so that we see this picture of Representative Andy ogles in a Christmas photo in 2021, he posted this picture that shows him posing with his family all carrying guns by the Christmas tree.

His district is the site of the shooting yesterday.

Before I ask you what goes through your mind when that kind of picture is sent out, I'd also like to play a little bit from him when he was button hold from CNN about this last issue.

>> Why not been AR-15's?

>> why not talk about the real issue facing this country in regards to the shooting, which would be mental health.

Christiane: a man who post himself with his family and children carrying guns now blames it on mental health.

Clearly there are mental health problems everywhere, is that the real problem, doctor?

>> Let me first say that I've seen that picture and it's honestly incredibly sad that instead of putting books in the hands of his children, they are putting those weapons.

What type of message are they trying to send to the country.

And when you talk about mental health, let's be clear about something, most people with mental illness are more likely to be Vic comes rather than perpetrators.

-- victims rather than perpetrators.

We have to move away from the concept of blaming this on, Y, and Z.

In America we have easy access to firearms.

When you think about that concept and take that and add that, plus Haight, plus impulsivity, plus fear of safety, all of those can end up in a tragic scenario.

I think we have to focus on ensuring that we are limiting the easy access of firearms that people who shouldn't have them are not able to get them.

Christiane: other countries, Britain, Australia and others are gun loving countries, they like to hunt, Australia is a meat producing country, they have had their tragedies -- New Zealand -- bipartisan and rapid control that stops this and it's not possible in your country for some reason.

>> That's exactly right, we have seen time and time again, whether you thick about the Port Arthur massacre or what happened in New Zealand, the differences, those legislators refused to simply stand by and have these type of events happening.

And I think the reality here is that, as Americans, we have a lot more of, and then we have that divides us.

This is about responsible gun ownership and we have the responsibility to put our children first.

So we need to do better.

Christiane: we hear you loud and clear.

Dr. Joseph, thank you for joining us tonight.

Now, in Israel, after posing his controversial plan to overhaul the independent judiciary, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu believes the country will overcome what he calls a great debate.

Protesters are still gathering with the bill set to return to parliament next month if no compromise is reached.

His plans are testing the U.S. rail relationship as well.

The former U.S. ambassador two Israel joins Walter Isaacson to discuss how it does impact their alliance.

Walter: thank you, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you.

Walter: You were in Israel, part of a delegation from the United States and you stayed an extra couple of days because you wanted to attend the demonstrations.

As somebody who has been an ambassador of the United States of Israel twice, that seemed unusual.

Why did you do it and what did you say NC see?

>> Unusual because I don't think I've been in a protester demonstration since I demonstrated for the sovereign jury 60 years ago when DASH was on trial.

But I am concerned about the way in which this effort by the Netanyahu government to promote a judicial restructuring and curb the and the parents -- the independence of the Israeli Supreme Court, concerned about the effect of Israel's democracy and the U.S. relationship, which is where it is, I really wanted to see it firsthand and also lend my voice to those protesting.

Walter: You talked about the effect it would have on the U.S.-Israeli relationship.

Why will it have an effect?

>> the U.S.-Israeli relationship is referred to as a special relationship.

What makes it special is it's not only based on common interests and strategic interests in the region, but it's based on common democratic values.

That is something the Israelis have been very proud of, touting that they are the only democracy in the Middle East.

But the bipartisan support for Israel, which has long been strong, deep, broad, really depends on the fact that Americans see Israel as a fellow democracy in a dangerous part of the world.

Walter: Let me read a tweet that you came out with, soon pausing the legislator will not be enough to restore normalcy.

The revolt is turning into a revolution.

What does that mean?

Now that he's paused, can he stop this, or is this something deeper than just a judicial change?

>> If Netanyahu concedes to his opposition, he risks his coalition in his coalition control.

If he doesn't, as I was saying, the opposition knows the way back to the square and will pursue civil disobedience, widespread demonstrations, shutting the country down as they did yesterday, and so given that, I think it will be extremely difficult to work out a compromise.

Walter: You've known Prime Minister Netanyahu for decades.

You've really dealt with him for a long time.

Tell me why he's doing this?

>> This is not the person I knew.

I worked with him in the 1990's during the Clinton administration.

I worked with him again whenever he became Barack Obama and -- when I became the special envoy for Barack Obama in 2018.

And I have known Netanyahu to be a particularly skillful politician, very good at playing the complicated game of maintaining his coalition, that's why he's the longest-serving prime minister in Israelis history, but this new prime minister has forged a coalition of far right and orthodox religious parties in this has seemed to upset his bouts in his normal skill, calculating how far it can go.

He seems to have been completely caught by the opposition that this judicial restructuring generated.

Walter: You say he's created this coalition of the far right, the extreme religious parties.

Is some of the onus on the centrists that you have known for so long and others who did not work with him trying to survey centrist government?

>> I don't think it's fair to blame them, you referenced Betty Gatz, who leads a centrist party.

He was prepared to join Netanyahu, joined his previous government on the basis that they would rotate the Prime Minister's ship.

Netanyahu went first and then did everything he could, successfully, to undermine the relationship and force the government to follow part.

So he was humiliated by Netanyahu, and I think it's not unreasonable that he doesn't want to be humiliated again.

The others, it's not just the centrist parties, there are parties and factions that also refuse to join with the Netanyahu, partly because he has undermined their trust in him, and partly because he's under indictment for charges.

He's been prosecuted on charges of bribery and breach of trust.

Walter: Are those charges part of his personal calculation of why he's doing this?

>> Indeed.

I think it's hard to explain it any other way because the one piece of legislation that he has insisted on, he agreed to defer the other package of laws designed to curve the judiciary.

But the one he insisted on an clot -- and because the blowup was the one that would enable him to stand court and try to ensure that court, Supreme Court would face an appeal and would not send him to jail.

Walter: While he was running, was as part of this platform?

Did the people vote for this?

>> It wasn't part of his platform.

Basically, deterring Iran from a nuclear threshold and making peace with Saudi Arabia, expanding the Abraham Accords.

Members of his party were surprised when this suddenly became the issue that he started to push.

Walter: Other than the defense minister, we haven't had pushback from within his own party, why not?

>> it has been happening for a long time to challenge him.

He has strong control over the rank-and-file.

He's popular amongst them.

-- Walter: Does that remind you of Trump?

>> increasingly so, a smarter version of Donald Trump, but Netanyahu's agenda of trying to attack the court has a certain resonance when it comes to Trump's activities.

Walter: When you were in Israel he met with one of your successors, the U.S. ambassador to Israel.

I saw that this morning, he was making a point of saying Netanyahu will visit Washington, this is going to happen, he's invited, why with the ambassador just say that?

>> the ambassadors doing a fantastic job and really difficult circumstances.

Up until now, the White House has avoided setting it 84 Prime Minister Netanyahu's visit to Washington.

Weiss is important, it's because it's to make his first visit to Washington within weeks of being sworn in and no date has been sentenced.

This is because the president wants to send a signal to Netanyahu that they took the clean things first before he comes.

>> What you -- Walter: What you are saying is that the interesting he said was not that of course he will come, was the fact that they did not set a date.

This is not something that we would call a southern invitation.

>> exactly.

At the appropriate time in the appropriate time hasn't come on Netanyahu cleans up his act.

The president has intervened twice to get him to back off.

I suspect -- I haven't spoken to him in the last couple of days, but I suspect that there may be some kind of understanding that now that Netanyahu has heated the president's call to back off the legislation, that they will look to set a date for him to come visit.

But I think that it will depend on how things go, the negotiations that will now take place under the leadership of the president will try to bring the opposition of the government together to work out a compromise before they convene in one month.

Walter: You are writing a piece that will be published tomorrow in which you are not up to mystic that negotiations can resolve this in a month.

Why not and what then?

>> the government coalition of far right religious parties and orthodox religious parties to curve -- want to curb the judiciary to stop the court from intervening in preventing the annexation of private Palestinian land in the West Bank.

And, in order to give the religious parties exemptions -- permanent exemptions from joining the Israeli army, from being restricted.

On the others, the opposition feels its power.

It is defending Israel's democracy and trying to reclaim the country for the future that it cares about.

Annan knows the way back to the streets.

The reservist to have them serve in the high-tech community knows how to threaten to take it to capital.

Walter: This was huge what happened in Israel.

Taking to the streets, shutting down the economy.

Do you think this is part of a global trend where people are pushing back against authoritarianism?

>> that's what impressed me most was that this was a huge manifestation of secular Israelis demanding that the democracy be protected.

I was surprised and heartened by the commitment to democracy that was strongly manifested.

So I hope there will be a demonstration to all of us in democracies that are threatened, to stand up for our rights.

Walter: You say the demonstrators you are with, these huge crowd, were secular Israelis, for the most part.

Why has there been and how bad is the divide in Israel between the secular political parties that want democracy and the religious right?

>> Would happen recently as secular Israeli's are becoming concerned by the growth in numbers -- the demographic numbers which suggest that Orthodox Israelis, who's birth rate is higher than secular Israelis, will eventually become dominant.

In what concerns secular Israelis is that the Orthodox Israelis are often poor, they depend on handouts for this -- from the states for their schools, and a vast majority of them don't serve in the Army, where there is supposed to be universal conscription.

Secular Israelis feel like they are threatened with becoming a minority, but bearing the burden of paying the taxes and serving in the Army.

So that sense of inequity has been fueling this on one side.

On the others, the growing numbers and zealotry has enabled them to form a government of the right and far right, so they have a majority and they feel that they have the legitimacy to advance their agenda, which includes, as we have been discussing, curbing the independence of the Supreme Court.

One side feels increasingly threatened.

The other side feels increasingly empowered and that has made a far more difficult to reconcile different trials.

Walter: Your trip to Israel was part of a group that tries to help economic development in the Palestinian territories and with Israel's blessing.

To what extent do you think this situation we face now makes it harder to have in Israeli-Palestinian peace?

>> It's important to understand that while all of this is going on inside Israel, tensions between Israelis and Palestinians have been growing fairly traumatically in the last three months.

Palestinians have been killed, 16 Israelis have been killed and increasing violence.

We are heading into Ramadan has already started, crossovers about to start.

That is a time of high tensions and high frictions between Israelis and Palestinians in the holy sites in East Jerusalem where they come into contact.

There's a real concern independent of what's happening inside Israel that Israeli-Palestinian conflict could erupt again.

The Palestinian Authority is crumbling, doesn't control any of the cities.

The Palestinian youth that though remember -- but what happened there have access to weapons and a target rich environment.

So, their activity is increasing the terrorism and Israeli army is responding to that.

It kind of feels like it's pointing fingers in the wrong direction.

They are preoccupied with the internal division.

All it's trying, Netanyahu doesn't want a block so he's trying to calm things down and make concessions to the Palestinians, he's being disavowed by the far right ministers who are inciting secular vigilantes to take action.

So the combination is very disturbing.

Walter: Ambassador, thank you for joining us.

Christiane: there are concerns about what might happen and might come to a boil as he said over Ramadan and throughout the season now.

We turn next to a dramatic story from the sports world, tennis legend Boris Beckham became the youngest man to win Wimbledon at the age of 17.

He went on the rack on 49 career titles, six grand slams and Olympic gold.

Before off court personal dramas and financial disasters resulted in bankruptcy in a prison sentence.

A new documentary tracks his rise, fall and path to redemption, here's a clip.

>> the wake-up call came really late.

>> Boris Becker is facing two and a half years in jail for hiding assets during bankruptcy.

>> I've hit my bottom.

That's not the end.

There's gotta be another chapter.

Christiane: Boris and the Oscar-winning director joined me to talk about his path from the podium to prison and beyond.

Boris Spector and Alex Gibney, welcome to the program.

Alex: Delighted to see you.

Christiane: good to see you out and about, Boris.

I want to ask you, what does it feel like now?

How does it feel being free, do you feel free?

Boris: It feels great.

You only appreciate freedom once you been incarcerated, let me tell you.

It's a different lifestyle, it's a different world.

I've been out now over three months, and I'm happy to be here, alive and speaking to you.

Christiane: as it was written, you were inmate number 82 93 EV.

And then at a different prison.

I think everybody would want to know what it was like.

Were you scared inside, was it violent?

Were you given special celebrity status?

Boris: It was a -- add an prison life is a very dangerous place.

I watched a couple of movies beforehand to prepare myself a little bit.

But I didn't expect it like that.

It's very scary, it's a real punishment.

Prison is supposed to be like that but it's a real punishment, taking away your freedom, your livelihood.

The only currency you have is your character and personality, literally.

And you better make friends with the strong boys because you need protection.

You need a group of people that look out for you.

Christiane: what was it about Boris, and you divide the two halves into triumph and disaster which reflects the poem that the players see as they exit the dressing room onto the Centre Court at Wimbledon.

What was it about Boris that made you want to commit four or so hours of TV to his story?

Alex: It didn't originally start as a four hour dog, it was going to be a featured dog, but I was intrigued by doing what about Boris because I was a huge tennis fan and Boris is one of the great players of all time.

So when John approached me and said, would you be interested in doing this, I told him, you had me at Boris.

The other thing interesting to me was that I've seen him play a cameo role on a film called love mean zero.

It's rare when you get an athlete of his stature who can talk as eloquently as Boris can about the sport and about the interior game, the psychological elements of tennis.

So it was his skill as a player, but also as a storyteller that intrigued me to do the story.

Christiane: was it a little bit of a redemption story if we believe we are at redemption point right now, because you've done several personal profiles of big-name people who've had their rise and fall and maybe their rise again.

Alex: The film ends, we begin to explore a little bit more deeply some of the circumstances that led Boris into prison.

We did a long interview with him before he was sentenced when he didn't know what was going to happen to him.

And it was at that moment that he was reckoning very honestly with his life in a way that is quite powerful in the film.

But at the end of the story, the glimpse at the end of the story is of Avery text -- a redemption story.

He made some mistakes, he's paid for them, and now there's an opportunity for Boris to write a new chapter.

Christiane: before we talk about your new chapter and everything that went into the prison chapter, I want to play a clip from the film and I'm sure everybody who's a tennis fan or anybody who's at tennis fan -- or a Boris fan will remember this.

This is one of your major victories against Andre Agassi.

We will just play this for a moment.

♪ Christiane: there you are, a bit of a comeback.

It's typical you, the facial expressions, the shots.

It was you at your Heights and I know you can hear it, I don't know if you could see it, but I watched you listening to that clip, what is the flashback you have when you remember the glory days?

Boris: First of all, it was never easy, there was always a struggle.

I usually would use the first set, sometimes the second set, but the most important point is the last point, not the first point in my plan is to win my last point.

That is the redline and all my professional life and private life is, yes, I go through trials and tribulations, sometimes for the right or wrong reasons, but I never give up.

When Alex talked about the next chapter, I am building my third chapter, probably the last one as we speak.

It's a challenge, I've had a hard life lessons.

I'm a curious boy, always wanted to know whether the plate in the kitchen is hot, and I wouldn't believe my father, I had to put my own hand on it, that is a statement that fits.

I should've done this and I should've done that, but in hindsight you are always smarter.

I've paid my dues and I'm ready for a comeback.

Christiane: so much to unpick and what you just said.

Do you feel humbled?

Boris: If a prison doesn't humble you, I don't know what will, when you literally lose everything and you go into a really small cell for 231 days, if that doesn't humble you, then you are lost anyway.

So, yes, there was enough time of reflection, there's enough time of feeling sorry for yourself, but you have to stop quickly because you have to get up the next day and survive.

You fight for survival.

You think about the things you shouldn't have done.

You do have good memories.

I did think about the Andre Agassi match maybe once or twice, but after a couple of months, you start to be a bit more positive anything about what's going to happen after, and at the time I did not know I would be released after eight months in six days, I thought it would be 15 months because of the new law they implemented for me to be deported back to Germany.

I took the chance, and I sign the documents, that's why they released me on December the 15th last year.

Ever since then, I've had time to not forget where I'm coming from, but it wasn't always bad.

I've got good things, I've got victories, I met good people along the way, especially the last couple of years when you struggle, when you are really lost and out and about, the amount of people that are with you are leaving by the minute, just a handful of people stayed, and because of them I never lost hope, and now they are part of my new group, my new team that is trying to have me come back.

Christiane: Alex, let's talk about teams because this is the theme throughout your investigation of Boris for this particular profile.

What's with all that Western music?

Alex: That was fun for me to do.

I was a big fan of spaghetti Westerns and I wanted to take the game of tennis out of the genteel world of the tennis club into the world of the gunfight.

So we play that spaghetti western music a number of times, we even have flashes of certain key players, just like they introduced Clint and stash Clint Eastwood in the good, the bad and the ugly.

I wanted to get into tennis matches as gunfights between classic rivals, and we leaned into that.

Christiane: in the gunfight, Boris talked about how it was a last point that mattered, not the first set or second set he would lose, you do talk about the Houdini effect that Boris had, almost getting himself into a hole in order to get himself out of that hole and win at the end, was that interesting to you psychologically, and how do you get played into the character you investigated who got himself into such financial trouble?

Alex: It is interesting, a lot of this film is about the psychology of tennis and in some ways, the psychology of life, and what you say, this Houdini aspect of his career is something that Boris himself said, which, we had access to these rushers of documentary that was made way back in 1991 and Boris talked about how sometimes he would allow himself , or not pay much attention for the first set or two until suddenly he was down and down deep.

That caused him to hyperfocus, and raise his level of energy.

On the tennis court, that could be breathtaking to watch.

I remember him getting down in the finals of the Australian open and then he came roaring back end just destroyed him.

But what can be an effective strategy for tennis is not always a great strategy for life.

It may be that Boris felt he could take risks and allow himself to get into holes thinking he could get out of them and it's harder to do in real life, when as an athlete, you haven't paid that much attention to financial matters in terms of taking care of your own business.

At one point Boris in the film says -- I asked them a lesson he learned and he says, take care of his own stuff -- he doesn't say stuff, but we are on CNN.

But I think that Houdini aspect is very impressive on the court, and tougher to manage in real life, I think.

That's my interpretation.

You have to ask if he agrees.

Christiane: I am going to ask because I want you to comment on what Alex just said and put it in context of the fact that you are famous beyond famous, you are the youngest ever and it still stands, man, boy at 17 to win Wimbledon, you became a total object of the public.

Everything you did, especially in Germany, was under the microscope.

Comment on what Alex said about the risk-taking, the Houdini aspect.

Maybe the Laura of invincibility that followed you not just throughout your tennis life but to calamity in your personal life.

Boris: Just the fact that winning Wimbledon at 17 was possible speaks for that Houdini effect.

You do the impossible and more impossible was to defend it at 18.

Naturally you feel invincible, I end up eating them at the end, not the other way around.

And that works in the tennis world because we like the great comebacks of some of the superstars in the world, golf, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan or messy winning the cup at 25.

This is a great comeback story and I lived it.

Many of been part of that life for 16, 17 years as a professional, that's your DNA and your mindset and you don't really hear the word no.

As a sports man you have to start something new, a second career where you don't know anything.

Of course when you are in a comfortable situation, and your comfort zone, you surround yourself with the wrong people.

You won't get somebody that criticizes you or somebody that says that's impossible.

Who are you talking to, I'm Boris Becker, nothing is impossible for me.

20 years later I learned a lesson but at the time it's a different philosophy.

And of course I'm a curious cow.

Of course I want to be in my second career as good as my first.

Of course I'm bound to take chances, but it's bound to lead to mistakes.

Christiane: I want to continue by playing another clip that we are able to play and this brings up the triumph and disaster element of this story of your life.

Let's just play.

>> Boris Becker, let's start with the basics, are you bankrupt?

>> how did someone who won all these championships work himself into the situation?

Boris: This is what I play for -- this is the famous poem.

This is where we wait before we go out on Centre Court.

We look out and we get a little nervous.

Christiane: we heard you say that, we heard the montage of headlines over 2019 appearance you made on Centre Court looking quite reflective.

In retrospect, what should you have done differently?

Should you have been advised differently?

Should you have kept Jan to react?

-- what should you have done differently?

When you think of Rafael Nadal, Federer, the others who have managed, by and large, to get through pretty much unscathed.

Boris: I hope for the best for these boys, but they are still playing.

In my playing days, everything was fine.

It was in my second phase problems occurred.

And he was my most important mentor in my playing days, and I probably would not have gotten into trouble if I would have stayed with them, but that didn't happen.

Quite frankly, I was probably surrounded by the wrong people, but I pick them, it's not their fault, it's my responsibility.

But I wanted to learn something new and make new experiences.

I wanted to get better in a field that I didn't know about, we are talking finance, business.

I was a sports man, I didn't study it, but I wanted to learn it.

I was always a curious boy, I wanted to get better at things I didn't know about.

But in finance, if you make a mistake or two, they are very expensive and you can't come back to it because there is no fifth set.

Christiane: just quickly, what is your third chapter?

You are not able to come back, I don't think, yet to Britain because you are very beloved commentator at Wimbledon and other sports, tennis events, what is your third chapter?

Boris: I miss London, I miss Wimbledon, the best tennis club in the world.

In my licenses until 2024 and October.

I don't think I will enter before that.

From all the good and the bad, I would be foolish to surround myself with a different group.

Thankfully, all my partners didn't drop me, they waited, they took a break because I took a break, and they led me back into the television world, the tennis world, the sponsoring world, so now it's up to me to give them back my professionalism.

I have to earn their trust, I have to earn their belief that I was better than I was before, so it's up to me.

If I wouldn't have learned from some of the mistakes I've done before, now I make it better, I wouldn't have learned anything.

Christiane: Boris is a very likable fellow.

Did you find it difficult -- what is it you want to say to the world about this young man who had everything and flew too close to the sun and fail and now is trying to get up again?

Alex: Boris reach the highest heights of tennis and then he fell very low and ended up in prison.

It's a cautionary tale, but it's in some ways, and inspirational one because now he's forthright, he's reckoned with his life and his mistakes and he's gone forward into the future to try to become a better person.

Christiane: Alex Gibney and Boris Becker, thank you for joining us and we wish you good luck.

In the documentary start streaming on Apple TV April 7.

Finally tonight, thousands took to the streets in Paris, continuing their protest against the government's pension reform for the 10th day.

The piles of garbage that have filled the streets are now becoming monstrous, really, with the help of one street artist.

They use the unusual canvas to turn trash into treasure all over the city, but everybody will be glad to know this reeking artform won't be allowed for a long as garbage collectors are suspending their weeklong strike tomorrow.

That's it for our program tonight.

If you want to find out what's coming up every night, sign-up for our newsletter at PBS.org.

Thank you for watching, and join us again tomorrow night.