>> HELLO, EVERYONE .

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

IS THE CEASE-FIRE AT RISK?

AS THE U. S. STRIKES IRAN YOUR THE STRAIGHT, IS THE REGION MOVING TOWARD ANOTHER ROUND OF ESCALATION?

THEN, RUSSIA THREATENS NEW SYSTEMATIC STRIKES ON KIEV, WE HAVE RARE ACCESS TO UKRAINE'S DRONE WAR TAKING THE FIGHT DEEP INSIDE RUSSIA.

PLUS, >> THE EBOLA OUTBREAK IN THE DRAMATIC REPUBLIC OF THE CONGO IS SPREADING RAPIDLY.

>> AN OUTBREAK OUTPACING THE RESPONSE, WITH MORE THAN 200 SUSPECTED THAT IN CENTRAL AFRICA.

I SPEAK TO A DOCTOR AND EXPERT ON INFECTIOUS DISEASES, AND HUMANITARIAN WORKERS HAVE INCURRED, ON THE GROUND IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO.

ALSO, > >> WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF PHYSICAL RECORDS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR DEBT AND NONE OF THEM ARE GOOD.

>> AMERICA'S NATIONAL DEBT NOW EXCEEDS THE SIZE OF ITS ENTIRE ECONOMY.

WALTER ISAACSON SPEAKS TO MIAMI GUINNESS PRESIDENT OF THE COMMITTEE FOR THE RESPONSIBLE FEDERAL BUDGET ABOUT HOW TO STOP THE CRISIS FROM SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL.

> >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, SYLVIA A AND SIMON A PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

THE PETER G PETERSON AND JOAN FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

MONIQUE SHOWN WARSHAW, PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR.

THE RENTAL CEASE-FIRE IS FACING A NEW TEST, IRAN'S REVOLUTIONARY GUARD IS WARNING THAT IT HAS A LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO RESPOND AFTER U. S. FORCES CARRY OUT WHAT THEY CALLED SELF- DEFENSE STRIKES ON MISSILE LAUNCH SITES AND BOATS AROUND THE STRAIGHT OF HORMUZ.

THE STRIKES CAME HOURS AFTER SAT DOWN WITH MEDIATORS AS WASHINGTON AND TEHRAN PUSH TOWARD A POSSIBLE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING.

THE MAJOR STICKING POINTS REMAIN INCLUDING THE FUTURE OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM, AND SANCTIONS RELIEF.

THE REGIONAL SITUATION IS GROWING EVEN MORE VOLATILE, ISRAEL HAS LAUNCHED FRESH STRIKES IN THE MIDDLE --LEBANON SIGNALING A MORE AGGRESSIVE POSTURE AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION INDICATES CONTINUED SUPPORT.

WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE DIPLOMACY?

HOW CLOSE IS THE REGION TO ANOTHER ESCALATION?

JOINING ME NOW IS FORMER U. S. DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU, AS ALWAYS.

WE HAVE THE U. S. CONDUCTING DEFENSIVE STRIKES IN SOUTHERN IRAN, DIPLOMATS JUST FINISH UP MEETING, MEANTIME IN QATAR, HOW SUSTAINABLE IS THIS ESCALATE TO DE-ESCALATE POSTURE THAT THE UNITED STATES APPEARS TO HAVE TAKEN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE THE SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN THREATENING THAT U. S. BASES ARE NO LONGER SAFE THROUGHOUT THE REGION?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD REALLY SAY WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 24 HOURS AND ESCALATE TO DE-ESCALATE, I DON'T THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT YET.

MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THE U. S. SAW IRAN BOATS THAT WERE ABOUT TO BE IN PLACING MIND IN THE STRAIGHT, THE UNITED STATES STRUCK THEM, AND THEN THIS ENSUED IN WHICH WE LOST A $30 MILLION DRONE, AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE, AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE DIED DOWN BUT THE QUESTION IS, WHAT'S NEXT, AS YOU SAY?

DOES THIS DERAIL THE TALKS?

THE CHIEF NEGOTIATOR , THE HEAD OF PARLIAMENT IS NOW BACK IN IRAN, AND THE QUESTION IS, IS IRAN GOING TO DO MORE THAN JUST SHOOT DOWN A DRONE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO RETALIATE MORE.

THIS WAS A RISK THAT THE UNITED STATES TOOK BUT I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO PREVENT IRAN FROM SOLIDIFYING ITS CONTROL , WHICH ADDING MINDS WOULD DO.

>> YOU MENTIONED RETURNING BACK TO IRAN FROM QATAR, IT'S REPORTED THAT THE CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKER IN IRAN'S NEGOTIATING TEAM HAS SLAMMED THIS EMERGING PROPOSAL AS A PURE SURRENDER OF THE CONTROL OVER THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

IF IRAN'S HARDLINERS ARE NOW ALREADY REVELED TESTING THE FRAMEWORK OF THIS DEAL, HOW STABLE IS ANY AGREEMENT THAT BESIDES CAN REACH IN QATAR?

>> EXACTLY.

FIRST, MOHAMMED IS A HARDLINER, IT HAPPENS TO BE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EVEN MORE HARD- LINE IN IRAN AS YOU POINT OUT.

THIS IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE WHEN LOOKING AT THIS MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING, NOT EVEN AT THE DEAL BUT, WHAT ARE THE TERMS THAT WILL BE NEGOTIATING IN THE NEXT PERIOD?

THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE I RGC AND RELATED EXTREME HARDLINERS COMING OUT AGAINST THAT, IT POSES A HUGE PROBLEM, AND I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT CAME ABOUT WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP STARTED TO PUT THIS DEAL OVER THE WEEKEND, ON FRIDAY, CAME OUT WITH WE'RE NEGOTIATING, WE'RE GETTING CLOSE, AND THAT HAS OPENED UP A WHOLE CAN OF WORMS.

HEART OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THE REACTION FROM THE MORE HAWKISH PARTS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SAYING THAT THE UNITED STATES IS ACTUALLY SURRENDERING OR CAPITULATING TOO MUCH, IS FORCING THE UNITED STATES TO DOUBLE DOWN MORE ON TERMS, AND IRAN CAN'T ACCEPT.

BY PUTTING THIS OUT THERE, WE'RE IN I THINK A MORE DELICATE AND MORE DIFFICULT SITUATION THAN WE WERE WHEN EVERYBODY WAS HOPEFUL.

FORGET THE OIL MARKETS RIGHT NOW, REALITY IS THAT THIS IS A VERY TENUOUS PERIOD AND THIS IS WHY WE'RE SEEING THIS CAMP DAVID TALK THAT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED BY THE WHITE HOUSE , THAT CABINET MEMBERS WILL COME TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT THIS AND OTHER THINGS GOING ON.

>> OVER THE WEEKEND THE ADMINISTRATION'S APPROACH APPEARED TO BE, NO DUST, THE HIGHLY ENRICHED MATERIAL, AND NO DOLLARS, PUSHING FOR A PHASE DEAL THAT STARTS, AND YOU MENTIONED THE REVELED COMING IMMEDIATELY FROM MEMBERS OF THE PRESIDENT'S PARTY, YOU HAD LINDSEY GRAHAM, ROGER WICKER, TED CRUZ, ALL CALLING THIS A MAJOR MISTAKE, AND INVOKING WHAT IS KRYPTONITE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP, COMPARING IT TO THE JCP OA SAYING THIS DEAL WOULD BE WORSE THAN THE DEAL THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED, AND THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP RAN AGAINST, AND DISMANTLED.

I'D LIKE TO PLAY SOUND FROM SENATOR THOM TILLIS WHO SPOKE OUT VOCIFEROUSLY OVER THE WEEKEND AGAINST THIS PROPOSED M. O. YOU.

>> WE WERE TOLD ABOUT 11 WEEKS AGO THAT , BY HEADSET AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, THAT THEY HAD OBLITERATED DO IRAN'S DEFENSES AND IT WAS A MATTER OF TIME THAT WE HAD THE NUCLEAR MATERIAL, NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A POSTURE WHERE WE MAY ACCEPT THE NUCLEAR MATERIAL REMAINING IN IRAN?

HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE.

>> GIVEN ALL OF THAT AND THE PRESSURE IN TERMINALLY THAT THE PRESIDENT IS FACING, DOES HE HAVE ANY OFFRAMP AVAILABLE TO HIM THAT YOU THINK WOULD ACCOMMODATE SOME OF THE CONCERNS FROM REPUBLICANS WHILE ALSO A DEAL THAT THE IRANIANS WOULD, ON FACE VALUE, AGREE TO AS WELL?

>> I THINK THAT THE ONLY OPTION HERE IS PROBABLY TO BE LESS SPECIFIC IN THIS M. O. U. ABOUT WITH THE TERMS OF THE FUTURE PART OF THE PHASE TWO THAT WOULD TALK ABOUT THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE UNITED STATES IS ON THIS ZERO STOCKPILE, THE 440 KILOGRAMS OF 60% URANIUM WOULD HAVE TO COME OUT OR BE DESTROYED , IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID.

THAT, MAYBE IT'S POSSIBLE FOR IRAN TO AGREE TO THAT BUT THEN THERE IS STILL HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF KILOGRAMS OF 20% OR LOWER, AND THAT'S GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE VERY UPSET.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE LESS CLEAR IN THE M. O. U. IN ORDER TO THREAD THE NEEDLE.

BUT, THAT'S STILL GOING TO BE TOUGH.

>> FROM IRAN'S PERSPECTIVE, AND GIVEN WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH THE PREVIOUS U. S. ADMINISTRATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN TRYING TO NEGOTIATE AND MAKE CLEAR THAT A NUCLEAR IRAN IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, FOR IRAN, IT REALLY DOES COME DOWN TO KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

IF THEY CAN AGREE TO ANYTHING THAT GETS THEM PAST 2029 AND THE NEXT ELECTION IN THE U. S. , PERHAPS THEY WOULD TAKE THAT AS A WIN.

I DO WANT TO ASK ANOTHER COMPONENT HERE, THAT IS LEBANON.

IT DOES APPEAR FROM REPORTING THAT THE ISRAELIS WERE BLINDSIDED AND VERY UNHAPPY WITH REPORTS OF THIS M. O. U. , AS IT WAS PRESENTED OVER THE WEEKEND, AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU WHO IS FACING RE- ELECTION IN JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS CAME OUT PUBLICLY AND STATED THAT THE WAR AGAINST HEZBOLLAH WOULD NOT BE INCLUDED IN ANY PART OF THIS DEAL IN TERMS OF A CEASE-FIRE, AND THAT HE HAD THE SUPPORT OF THE PRESIDENT AND BACKING ON THAT FRONT, WE SEE THAT EXPANDED THEIR OPERATION JUST TODAY, NORTH AGAINST HEZBOLLAH, JUST TALK ABOUT THE DYNAMICS THERE.

BECAUSE IRAN, AT THE SAME TIME, IS SAYING THAT A CEASE-FIRE HAS TO BE PART OF ANY DEAL.

>> RIGHT, I THINK THERE ARE THREE COMPONENTS, I'M GLAD THAT YOU RAISED IN A NON-.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEGREE OF THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM THAT INCLUDED, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH SANCTIONS RELIEF OR THE RELEASE OF UNFROZEN , HOW MUCH TO UNFREEZE OF IRANIAN ASSETS, MONEY, AND SEQUENCING, AND THE THIRD PART OF THIS IS STICKING POINTS, WHETHER AND HOW MUCH TO INCLUDE THE LEBANESE WAR.

PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT NETANYAHU IN A DIFFICULT POSITION BECAUSE HE AGREED TO INCLUDE LEBANON AND THE LEBANON FRONT WITH BOTH STOP WITHOUT PRIOR NOTIFICATION OR DISCUSSION, THEN HE HAD A CALL, TOLD HIM IT'S ON THE LIST, NETANYAHU HAS COME BACK AND SAID, THE UNITED STATES WILL LET US DEFEND OURSELVES BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS, NETANYAHU TRYING TO FRAME THIS IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T LOOK BAD, BECAUSE NETANYAHU IS MR.

SECURITY, THIS IS WHAT HE'S RUNNING ON.

THE NORTH OF ISRAEL IS UNINHABITABLE RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE SEEING THIS EXPANSION OF THE WAR.

THEY'RE DOING THIS, I THINK, TO GET AS MUCH DONE AS POSSIBLE IN CASE THE UNITED STATES FORCES THEM TO STOP, AND AT THE SAME TIME, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS HUMILIATING NETANYAHU BY SAYING, PUBLICLY, NETANYAHU WILL DO WHAT I TELL HIM.

THIS IS A NIGHTMARE FOR NETANYAHU ON MANY FRONTS, IF THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM ISN'T SOLVED IN IRAN, HIS ENTIRE REASON FOR HOW HE HAS TALKED ABOUT HIS ROLE IN PROTECTING ISRAEL WOULD BE OFF THE TABLE, AND THEN THIS CONTINUING THREAT FROM HEZBOLLAH NOT BEING ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS.

THE ISRAELIS WORRY.

>> NOT TO MENTION THAT HE'S ALSO CAMPAIGNED ON BEING THE CLOSEST PRIME MINISTER EVER TO A U. S. ADMINISTRATION.

AND IT WAS QUITE SURPRISING, THEN, TO HEAR PRESIDENT TRUMP TURN AND TELL ALL OF THESE GOALS AND ARAB COUNTRIES AND THEIR LEADERS THAT IS PART OF ANY DEAL THEY WOULD HAVE TO JOIN THE ABRAHAM ACCORDS, INCLUDING IRAN AS WELL, AND NO SURPRISE, THIS WAS MET WITH MUTED SILENCE BY THOSE COUNTRIES.

WHILE WE HAVE YOU, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE OTHER HOT WAR HAPPENING IN EUROPE, BECAUSE THERE IS A SEEMING CONNECTION.

THAT'S BETWEEN RUSSIA AND IRAN, AND OVER THE WEEKEND, MOSCOW UNLEASHED ONE OF ITS LARGEST BOMBARDMENTS ON KIEV, 90 MISSILES, 600 DRONES, AND ANOTHER STRIKE USING THEIR HYPERSONIC MISSILE, PRESIDENT PUTIN WENT FURTHER, TELLING DIPLOMATS , FOREIGN DIPLOMATS, TO LEAVE KIEV.

IS THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE BEING PLAYED BY THE FORMER KGB AGENT?

OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A DIFFERENT FRONT THAT WE ARE NOW SEEING?

>> WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHETHER THIS IS INDEED A DIFFERENT FRONT, BUT I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS GOING ON, HERE.

NUMBER 1, PUTIN HAS A PROBLEM AT HOME BECAUSE ELITES ARE STARTING TO QUESTION, WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT, WHEN IS IT GOING TO END?

THE FACT THAT UKRAINE HAS BROUGHT THE WAR TO RUSSIA, FRONT AND CENTER, THE HUMILIATION OF THE PARADE LOOKING LIKE A JOKE, AND HAVING TO DOWNGRADE IT BECAUSE OF THE THREAT OF UKRAINIAN MISSILES, PUTIN IS DOING THIS FOR A DOMESTIC AUDIENCE AS WELL, THEN, I THINK THIS THREAT AGAINST EUROPEAN DIPLOMATS AND THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAD FOREIGN MINISTER CALL RUBIO AND RUBIO REPORTED ON THIS PUBLICLY AND SAID, YEAH, HE SAID ALL DIPLOMATS ARE AT RISK, BUT THERE'S NO SIGN OF THE UNITED STATES, ESPECIALLY THE EU, WILL BE PULLING UP DIPLOMATS.

GOOD FOR NOW, BUT THE GOAL HERE IS TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE UNITED STATES, MORE SO THAN EUROPE, BUT ALSO EUROPE TO GET UKRAINE TO STOP, TO GET UKRAINE TO STOP ATTACKING RUSSIA, BECAUSE IT IS HURTING PUTIN.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE HOW THIS GOES FORWARD, BUT THEY ARE OUT OF AIR DEFENSES, AND WE ARE REALLY LOW ON AIR DEFENSES, AND PUTIN KNOWS THIS.

AND THE MISSILE IS NOT A PRECISION STRIKE MISSILE.

IT IS A MISSILE OF TERROR, IT IS A MISSILE OF SIGNALING BECAUSE OF THE NUCLEAR POTENTIAL WHICH IS NOT BEING PLAYED HERE, BUT, MULTIPLE WARHEADS AND MULTIPLE MUNITIONS, IT IS A WAY OF SPREADING TERROR, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

>> CONNECTING THESE TWO, WE'RE SAYING FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, RUSSIAN ANTI-JAMMING TECHNOLOGY IS BEING USED IN THE GULF.

DO YOU HAVE FAITH THAT THE U. S. AND MINISTRATION HAS A COHERENT POLICY IN ADDRESSING THOSE CONTINUED THREATS?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT, I THINK THIS ADMINISTRATION IS STRUGGLING ON HOW TO DEAL WITH THE RUSSIAN INVOLVEMENT IN THE GULF, LET'S NOT FORGET THAT RUSSIA PROVIDED THE MEANS TO HELP IRAN KILL AMERICANS.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT WITH CHINA, PRESIDENT TRUMP RAISED THAT, BUT WHERE IS THE PRESSURE ON RUSSIA ABOUT THAT?

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE NOT FIRMLY PUT THE OIL AND GAS SANCTIONS BACK ON, THEY'RE KIND OF ON.

BUT, WE SHOULD SEE THAT, BUT, WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THIS?

AND I THINK THAT THESE THINGS ARE A DISCONNECT AND IT SHOWS YOU CANNOT ISOLATE ONE REGIONAL CONFLICT FROM ANOTHER.

THEY ARE ALL CONNECTED.

>> IN THE MEANTIME, UKRAINE CONTINUES TO POUND RUSSIA'S ENERGY SECTOR BY THOSE LONG- RANGE DRONES AS WELL.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR ANALYSIS, REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS.

> >> RUSSIA IS THREATENING A NEW WAVE OF STRIKES ON KIEV AFTER THIS WEEKS HEAVY AND DEADLY BOMBARDMENT.

MOSCOW IS WARNING FOR NATIONALS INCLUDING DIPLOMATS AND INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS TO LEAD UKRAINE'S CAPITAL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

USA DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON SAID THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO U. S. EMBASSY OPERATIONS.

AS RUSSIA REFUSES TO LET UP, UKRAINE CONTINUES TO ADAPT, THE CORRESPONDENT FILED THIS REPORT LOOKING AT THE DEEP STRIKE DRONE UNIT.

>> Reporter: PRESIDENT TRUMP ONCE SAID UKRAINE HAD NO CARDS, BUT NOW, THEY'VE BUILT THEMSELVES A NEW DECK.

NOW WITH RUSSIA'S MOST SEEMLY TARGET IN THE WAR, A DRONE UNIT LAUNCHING THIS NIGHT A WAVE OF 200 ATTACK DRONES INTO RUSSIA.

THE ISSUE IS THE SCALE, POTENTIALLY 20 DRONES BEING LAUNCHED FROM HERE, AND THREE OR FOUR OTHER LOCATIONS AROUND HERE.

ALSO INVOLVED IN TONIGHT'S ATTACK.

>> THE SHEER NUMBER, OVERWHELMING.

IT SEEMS MUCH OF RUSSIA'S AIR DEFENSES, AND CAUSING PERSISTENT EMBARRASSMENT TO THE KREMLIN.

WORKING FAST IN SILENCE, KNOWING AN ERROR COULD KILL THEM ALL.

THEY ARE A KEY TARGET FOR THE RUSSIAN DRONES FLYING OVERHEAD.

CONSTANTLY INTERRUPTING THEIR WORK , WHICH IS GOING TO GO ON ALL NIGHT.

CLOSE TO HEAR, RUSSIAN STRIKES JUST HIT UKRAINIAN CIVILIANS.

AND IN THESE UKRAINIAN DRONES HIT.

THE MAYOR TELLING RUSSIANS THERE TO STAY INDOORS.

IN ANOTHER FIELD, ANOTHER TECHNOLOGICAL LEAP IS AT WORK.

JET BOOSTERS USED TO GET ROUNDS TO THEIR 120 MILE AN HOUR SPEED IN SECONDS.

AT THEIR BASE, ONE SCREEN IS A GLIMPSE OF A WORLD ORDER TURNED ON ITS HEAD.

DOZENS OF UKRAINIAN DRONES ROAMING INSIDE RUSSIA, COORDINATES, TARGETS, A. I. POWERED, PULSING ON THE SCREEN FASTER THAN YOUR EYES CAN READ.

RUSSIA OFTEN SEEN AS THE THIRD- LARGEST MILITARY POWER, PREYED UPON BY A SERIES OF LAPTOPS.

>> IS OUR BIGGEST ADVANTAGE AND WHY IT'S SO HARD FOR TO DESTROY THIS PROGRAM, BECAUSE WE SPLIT UP.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY COMMAND CENTERS AND WE USE DOZENS OF PLACES.

ALSO, THE SOFTWARE GIVES US A CHANCE TO WORK WITH THOUSANDS OF UAVS.

>> Reporter: THE DRONE CAN TAKE A HUGE PAYLOAD 1200 MILES.

A JET POWERED DRONE APPEARS LIKE A ROCKET ON RUSSIAN RADAR.

>> DECOYS, WE SEND HUNDREDS OF THEM, SOME ARE EMPTY, SOME WITH A PAYLOAD, THE PAYLOAD IS SMALL BUT ENOUGH TO DESTROY AIR DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

>> Reporter: IT IS DIZZYING, THE SPEED OF EVOLUTION, INGENUITY, UKRAINE TWO YEARS AGO BEGGING FOR OLD AMERICAN MISSILES TO HIT JUST INSIDE RUSSIA'S BORDERS.

NOW, IT BUILDS ITSELF AND LAUNCHES SO MANY DRONES AS DEEP AS RUSSIA AND SIBERIA, EVEN KREMLIN LOYALISTS ARE QUESTIONING PERMANENCE -- PUTIN'S ENDGAME.

NOW THE WEST WANTS TO LEARN FROM WHAT UKRAINE HAD TO DO TO SURVIVE WHEN IT DIDN'T GET THE HELP HE NEEDED.

EACH LEAP , ADVANTAGE LAST MONTHS BEFORE THE OTHER SIDE CATCHES UP.

UKRAINE IS AHEAD FOR NOW, BUT ONLY BECAUSE IT'S LEARNED IT WILL LIKELY BE ON ITS OWN WHEN IT'S NOT.

> >> THE HEAD OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION IS TRAVELING TO THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO, THE EPICENTER OF THE FAST-MOVING EBOLA OUTBREAK.

SO FAR 220 PEOPLE ARE NOW SUSPECTED TO HAVE DIED FROM EBOLA.

THE DISEASE CAN SPREAD THROUGH BODILY FLUIDS.

IN THE HEART OF THE OUTBREAK, PROTESTERS ARE DEMANDING THE RELEASE OF BODIES FOR BURIAL, AND HAVE ATTACKED HEALTHCARE FACILITIES BURNING TENTS AND FORCING PATIENTS TO FLEE.

JOINING ME NOW IS AN EXPERT ON INFECTIOUS DISEASES, AND A HUMANITARIAN WORKER ON THE GROUND IN THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

LET ME START WITH YOU, THE HEAD OF THE W. H. O. JUST DECLARED THIS A GLOBAL EMERGENCY, SOME 220 BELIEVED TO HAVE DIED FROM EBOLA, AND HUNDREDS , THOUSANDS OF SUSPECTED CASES AT THIS POINT, BUT THEY SAY THIS IS NOT THE NEXT COVID-19.

HOW ALARMED SHOULD THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY BE AT THIS POINT?

>> IT'S DISSIMILAR TO COVID-19, AS YOU SAID, LIKE THE CURRENT OUTBREAK, ARE ALL TRANSMITTED THROUGH BLOOD-BORNE PATHOGEN, CLOSE CONTACT AND AS HEALTHCARE WORKERS ARE HIGHEST RISK.

I WAS AN EBOLA RESPONDER IN WEST AFRICA AND WORKED QUITE A FEW YEARS AT THE BORDER OF DRC, THE BIGGEST CONCERN IS FOR THE COMMUNITIES AFFECTED, BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT 200 DEAD YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OVER 1000 SUSPECTED, MANY OF WHOM PRESENT SIMILAR TO OTHER INFECTIOUS DISEASES LIKE MALARIA, OR CHOLERA, SO THESE COMMUNITIES AND THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS HAVE TO SORT OUT WHICH OF THESE PATIENTS MAY END UP BEING EBOLA POSITIVE AND PROTECT THEMSELVES, THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS AND THEIR CLINICS.

>> SO, THEN, IF THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC RISK IS LOW, JUST EXPLAIN TO US WHY IT IS STILL SO IMPORTANT THAT THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY STILL BE FOCUSED, AND THAT GOVERNMENTS IN PARTICULAR DO AS MUCH AS THEY CAN TO TRY TO CONTAIN THIS OUTBREAK.

>> AS OF YESTERDAY ALREADY, THE DIRECTOR OF THE AFRICA CDC RESPONDED BY SAYING THAT 10 ADDITIONAL AFRICAN COUNTRIES ARE AT HIGH RISK.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT A PANDEMIC RISK, REGIONALLY THIS IS A HUGE HEALTHCARE SECURITY CONCERN BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY BEHIND BY THE TIME THIS OUTBREAK WAS DISCOVERED, IT IS THOUGHT TO HAVE POTENTIALLY STARTED AT THE END OF MARCH, IF NOT EARLIER THAN THAT, THAT MEANS WE'RE JUST DISCOVERING HOW FAR THE OUTBREAK HAS CURRENTLY SPREAD.

REGIONALLY IT IS THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS ON THE NEIGHBOR, GLOBALLY THE CONCERN IS THAT YES, WE MAY SEE SPORADIC CASES THAT MAY END UP BEING SUSPECT CASES LIKE WE SAW YESTERDAY, BUT, THE ISSUE IS NOT SO MUCH THAT WE CAN'T HANDLE EBOLA VIRUS DISEASE IN HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS THAT ARE WELL-TO-DO, THE ISSUE IS THAT THE DESTABILIZATION THAT COMES FROM A LARGE REGIONAL EPIDEMIC HAS GLOBAL IMPLICATIONS, HAS IMPLICATIONS ON CONFLICT, ON ALL OF OUR SAFETY, IF WE MISS ANOTHER SIGNAL THAT MAY ARISE.

AND AS SOMEONE WHO HAS TAKEN CARE OF HUNDREDS OF EBOLA PATIENTS, IS IT NOT ENOUGH TO CARE THAT THESE COMMUNITIES ARE SUFFERING AND LOSING FAMILIES?

>> NO DOUBT IT IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD ALL BE FOCUSED ON.

AND SHOULD CARE ABOUT, AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HEATHER, YOU'RE THERE NOW, WE HAVE REPORTED OVERCROWDED CAMPS, BURNED-OUT TREATMENT FACILITIES, RAMPANT MISINFORMATION.

TELL US WHAT YOU'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

>> THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IS REALLY VERY, VERY SERIOUS.

AS THE DOCTOR SAID, THERE IS SO MANY CASES, AND WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, I REALLY FEEL THAT WE NEED TO CATCH UP, BECAUSE THIS OUTBREAK STARTED PROBABLY IN JANUARY, WE HEARD THAT TODAY, THE ACTUAL INDEX CASE PRESENTED IN THE HEALTH CENTER, BACK AT THE END OF JANUARY, HE DIED AT THE END OF FEBRUARY.

THIS MEANS THIS PARTICULAR STRAIN OF EBOLA HAS BEEN OUT THERE FOR MANY, MANY WEEKS.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE SPREAD IS, SO WE'RE VERY WORRIED ON THE GROUND, AND SO IS THE POPULATION, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, TREATMENT UNITS HAVE BEEN SET ON FIRE, THERE IS SUCH A LOT OF MISTRUST IN THE COMMUNITY, AND WE HAVE TO START BY BUILDING THE TRUST, WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND HAVE THE HEALTH AND THE MEDICAL RESPONSE GOING ALONGSIDE, AND WE SAW THIS IN THE 2018 OUTBREAK, AND WE FOUND THAT ONCE WE BUILD THE TRUST OF THE COMMUNITY, AND THE COMMUNITY NEED US, TELLING THEM WHAT EBOLA IS AND WHERE THEY NEED TO PRESENT, THEN THINGS STARTED TO GO BETTER.

WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE THESE THINGS GO HAND-IN-HAND, BUT, WE REALLY FEEL THAT THINGS ARE SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL.

>> ONE THING THAT I CONTINUE TO HEAR FROM THOSE AID WORKERS, AND ORGANIZATIONS ON THE GROUND, IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE LACK OF PPP, AND THE LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE AS A WHOLE.

LET ME ASK YOU, DOES THE DRC HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES AT THIS POINT, FROM WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, TO TREAT THE GROWING NUMBER OF CASES?

>> THERE IS A LACK OF PPE, QUITE A LOT HAS BEEN SENT IN, AND IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE.

WE'VE DISTRIBUTED PPE TO GOVERNMENT HEALTH WORKERS.

BUT, SO MUCH MORE IS NEEDED, THE RESPONSE PLANS BEING DEVELOPED, BY THE MINISTRY OF HEALTH AND THE W. H. O. , AND IT'S A VERY AMBITIOUS PLAN, AND IT REQUIRES A LOT OF FUNDING.

THE BUDGET FOR THREE MONTHS IS 230 MILLION AND THAT'S GOT TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.

AS MANY OF US RESPONDERS ON THE GROUND, WE GOT OUR ACCREDITATION, WE'RE READY TO RESPOND.

WE NEED TO GET THE EQUIPMENT IN, AND IT'S BECOMING HARDER, BECAUSE THE BORDERS ALL AROUND US CLOSING, SO THE ONLY FLIGHTS IN OUR U. N. FLIGHTS, WHICH ARE STILL GOING.

BUT WE NEED MORE OF THEM.

SO THAT WE CAN GET PEOPLE IN, BUT ALSO SO THAT WE CAN GET THE AID IN.

IT'S A VERY TRICKY SITUATION, THIS IS TAKING PLACE IN A CONFLICT ZONE, WHERE THERE ARE MANY DISPLACED PEOPLE, MILLIONS OF DISPLACED PEOPLE, SO VERY COMPLEX SITUATION.

>> AND I SAW YOU NODDING YOUR HEAD WHEN I MENTIONED PPE, IT'S AN AKRON AND WE BECAME FAMILIAR WITH WHEN COVERING COVID, YOU ARE ONE OF THE MANY EXPERTS THAT WE HAD ON OUR AIR TALKING ABOUT THAT PANDEMIC.

I WANT TO GET YOU TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT HEATHER JUST MENTIONED ABOUT THE CRITICISM DIRECTED AT THE W. H. O. BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE, MARCO RUBIO SAYING THAT THEY WERE LATE TO RESPOND, AND NOT TRACKING.

THIS LATEST OUTBREAK FAST ENOUGH, THE U. S. WITHDREW FROM THE W. H. O. , TALK ABOUT THE CONCERN THAT YOU MAY HAVE, OR MAY NOT HAVE.

I DON'T WANT TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH ABOUT THAT KIND OF STATEMENT, AND ABOUT THE U. S. NOT BEING PART OF THE W. H. O. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF REALITY ON THE GROUND WITHOUT THE U. S.

>> LET ME START BY SAYING THE W. H. O. DOESN'T DO ON THE GROUND SURVEILLANCE.

IT IS COUNTRIES IN THE REGION THAT DO THAT, AND THEN THEY COORDINATE, THEY INFORM THE W. H. O. AND THE W. H. O. SENDS IN WHICH IS A MEMBER STATE ORGANIZATION, WHERE MEMBERS BATES PAY DUES, AS YOU MENTIONED, UNITED STATES PULLED OUT OF THE W. H. O. AND LEFT OUR MEMBER STATE BILL UNPAID.

WE HAVE WITHDRAWN OUR CONTRIBUTIONS IN THE MEMBER STATE ORGANIZATION, WHICH IS WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HELP IN THESE KINDS OF EMERGENCY SITUATIONS.

THE OTHER WAY, AS YOU MENTIONED THAT OUR LACK OF PRESENCE IN THIS AREA BECAUSE OF THE DISMANTLING OF USAID IS THAT MANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE PART OF THIS RESPONSE HAVE USAID FUNDING WOULD HAVE ADDITIONAL PRESENCE ON THE GROUND , AS WITH OUR OWN AGENCIES, WHICH WOULD MAKE THE COORDINATION AND OPERATION OF THE RESPONSE FASTER.

I WORKED AS A CLINICIAN IN EBOLA TREATMENT UNITS FOR A LONG TIME, THIS IS A VERY LABOR- INTENSIVE DISEASE FOR HEALTHCARE WORKERS TO TAKE CARE OF, MANY OF THESE PATIENTS PRESENT LIKE CHOLERA PATIENTS, COMPLETELY DEHYDRATED AND REQUIRES A LOT OF ORAL REHYDRATION, AND HEALTHCARE WORKERS HAVE TO BALANCE THEIR OWN SAFETY AGAINST THE SURVIVAL OF THEIR PATIENTS.

THINK ABOUT IF YOU STEP BACK, IF EVERYBODY WHO PRESENTS WITH EBOLA EARLY ON, THEY LOOK LIKE MALARIA, YOU NEED THE PPE IN EVERY CLINIC WHERE THERE IS TONS OF POTENTIAL INFECTIOUS DISEASES CASES PRESENTING, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD IMAGINE THE HEALTHCARE WORKERS RIGHT NOW ARE FACING.

>> HEATHER, A NEW STUDY IN THE JOURNAL OF SCIENCE CORRELATES VERY RECENT CUTS WITH THE DOUBLE DIGITS LIKE THAT WE'VE SEEN IN VIOLENCE ACROSS AFRICA, DEALING WITH AND 23 REBELS IN THE MIDDLE OF A HOT ZONE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO TRY TO CONTAIN AN OUTBREAK LIKE THIS WHEN YOU'VE GOT AN ACTIVE WAR ZONE?

AROUND YOU?

>> IT MAKES IT MUCH, MUCH HARDER.

THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'D BE CALLING FOR WOULD REALLY BE TO STOP ANY MILITARY OPERATIONS, BUT, THAT'S VERY HARD.

TO MAKE HAPPEN.

AS YOU SAY, ALSO MANY PEOPLE DISPLACED AND ON THE MOVE AND PEOPLE BEING ON THE MOVE, WHEN YOU'VE GOT IN EBOLA OUTBREAK IS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, AND THAT'S HOW IT GETS TO SPREAD IT TO DIFFERENT PROVINCES.

IT HAS SPREAD ALL THE WAY SOUTH, WHICH IS A LONG WAY AND WE'RE SEEING MORE HEALTH CENTERS AFFECTED , BUT YOU CAN'T STOP PEOPLE MOVING AROUND.

SO, IN A CONFLICT AREA, HAVING EBOLA MAKES IT FAR HARDER TO CONTAIN THAN IT WOULD IN AN AREA WHERE THERE IS NO CONFLICT.

>> THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE AND SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

I DO WANT TO GET TO THE SPECIFIC OUTBREAK, THIS IS THE DRC 17th EBOLA OUTBREAK, THE THIRD-LARGEST, NOW, ON RECORD.

TALK ABOUT WHAT MAKES THIS PARTICULAR STRAIN FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE ONES YOU'VE SEEN PREVIOUSLY.

>> SO, THE SPECIES OF EBOLA, WE'VE SEEN TWO OTHER PRIOR OUTBREAKS OF WHICH MEANS WE HAVE A LOT LESS CLINICAL EXPERIENCE BUT ALSO THERE HASN'T BEEN AS MUCH INVESTMENT IN COUNTERMEASURES LIKE VACCINES AND TREATMENTS, SO IN THE ABSENCE OF THAT, PRESENTING EARLY CARE IS IMPORTANT, AND ABILITY TO PROVIDE GOOD, SUPPORTIVE CARE IS IMPORTANT, AND WHAT WE KNOW CURRENTLY IS ALTHOUGH THERE ARE TWO VACCINE CANDIDATES BEING MOVED TOWARD POTENTIAL TRIAL, IT MAY TAKE MONTHS, AND ADDITIONALLY THERE ARE SOME MEDICAL TREATMENTS, AS WELL AS AN ANTIVIRAL, AT LEAST THE ANTIBODIES MAY BE QUICKER, IT MIGHT BE THE ANTIVIRAL, ALL OF THAT, THE POINT WILL BE HOW DO WE DISTRIBUTE THAT, HOW DO WE GET TRIALS INTO PLACE, COMPLICATING FACTORS ARE REMOTENESS OF THE OUTBREAK, THE CONFLICT THAT YOU MENTIONED AND THE DISTRUST, WHAT FOR ME COMPLICATES THE ENTIRE THING IS THAT WE LOST TIME, AND IF WE DON'T KNOW HOW BIG IT IS, WHEN YOU HAVE AN EARTHQUAKE YOU SET UP AN OPERATING CENTER IN ONE PLACE, BUT IF THE EPICENTER IS MULTIPLE URBAN PLACES, MULTIPLE RURAL PLACES, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE RESOURCES, IT'S ABOUT GETTING THEM TO THE PLACE THEY'RE NEEDED.

>> FOR VIEWERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING THIS CLOSELY, EBOLA KILLS UP TO 90% OF THOSE INFECTED, THAT IS A SHOCKING STATISTIC.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHAT MAKES THIS PARTICULAR VIRUS SO LETHAL?

>> IT'S AFTER WEST AFRICA WE'VE SEEN OF THEM AND MORTALITY CAN BE VARIABLE, THE AVERAGE IN MY EBOLA TREATMENT WAS 50 TO 60%.

A HUGE PART OF MORTALITY IS RELATED TO HOW QUICKLY YOU COME TO CARE, AND HOW GOOD THE SUPPORTIVE CARE YOU RECEIVE, RETURNING TRAVELERS IN WEST AFRICA, AMERICANS LIKE ME WHO MAY HAVE BEEN INFECTED, OR TALLY IN THOSE PATIENTS WAS LESS THAN 20%, THEY GOT TARGETED THERAPIES.

A HUGE PART OF EBOLA MORTALITY IS TIED TO GOOD CARE BUT ALSO ACCESS TO THERAPEUTICS.

WHAT MAKES IT A DEADLY DISEASE IS THAT IT'S A 1-2 PUNCH EARLY ON, IT CAN PRESENT LIKE MALARIA, TYPHOID, CHOLERA, WHERE PATIENTS HAVE FLULIKE SYMPTOMS AND DIARRHEA, IN LATER SITUATIONS THE VIRUS NOT JUST ATTACKS HER OWN BODY'S CELLS BUT ALSO REVS UP YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM WHICH CAN LEAD TO LATER PRESENTATIONS LIKE BLOOD IN YOUR STOOL OR VOMIT.

IT'S NOT LIKE HOLLYWOOD, PATIENTS PRESENT LIKE SEPTIC SHOCK WITH SOME BLEEDING IN THEIR VOMITING, ET CETERA.

>> I WANT TO END BY ASKING YOU, HEATHER, DR.

BEDELIA HAS GIVEN US HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH COVERING PAST OUTBREAKS THERE, WHAT THIS IS LIKE FOR YOU.

AND THE MESSAGE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEND TO VIEWERS WHO ARE WATCHING THIS AROUND THE WORLD, ABOUT WHY THEY SHOULD BE ALARMED AND WHAT MORE THEY CAN DO TO PRESS THEIR OWN ELECTED OFFICIALS TO PROVIDE MORE FUNDING, AND BASIC ESSENTIALS LIKE PPE, AS YOU SAID.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU, I WORKED IN TWO PREVIOUS EBOLA OUTBREAKS, I WORKED IN THE WEST AFRICA OUTBREAK IN SIERRA LEONE, AND I WORKED BETWEEN 2018 AND 2020, THE EBOLA OUTBREAK, AND WHEN I CAME THIS TIME, I SAID TO MYSELF, I'M SURE I WON'T HAVE TO MANAGE ANOTHER EBOLA OUTBREAK.

HOW WRONG I WAS.

BUT I'M GLAD TO HAVE THE EXPERIENCED BRAIN AND THE EXPERIENCED TEAM, REALLY EXCELLENT TO HELP ON THE GROUND.

AS I SAID EARLIER, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE FOR THIS PARTICULAR OUTBREAK.

THE SPEED OF IT IS FRIGHTENING, PEOPLE ON THE GROUND ARE FRIGHTENED, WE ARE REALLY KEEN TO DO A GOOD RESPONSE.

MY STAFF AS WELL AS DOING A GOOD RESPONSE.

SO, MY ASK IS, THIS OUTBREAK NEEDS FUNDING, THE ONE IN 2018, THE MONEY CAME IN QUICKLY, BUT, THAT ISN'T THE CASE THIS TIME.

DEFINITELY ASKING FOR FUNDING .

FOR THIS RESPONSE.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE WORK THAT YOU AND YOUR TEAM ARE DOING, PLEASE STAY SAFE, THEIR SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT AND DR.

, THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXPERTISE AND THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE TO FIGHT A NUMBER OF THESE TYPES OF DISEASES THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES.

REALLY APPRECIATE THE TIME.

> >> THREE MONTHS INTO THE WAR WITH IRAN THE U. S. BORROWING COSTS ARE AT THEIR HIGHEST SINCE 2007 WITH AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVING TO FORK OUT ALIENS OF DOLLARS IN INTEREST.

THIS IS THE NATIONAL DEBT SURPASSED THE SIZE OF THE U. S. ECONOMY IN LATE MARCH.

WHAT DOES THIS SPELL FOR THE COUNTRY'S FINANCIAL FUTURE?

MIAMI GUINNESS IS THE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FEDERAL BUDGET AND SHE SPEAKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT WHAT POLICYMAKERS CAN DO TO REALLY IN THIS CRISIS.

>> THANK YOU, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> SO NICE TO JOIN YOU.

>> WE'VE JUST HIT A MILESTONE, OUR DEBT IS $39 TRILLION AND THE MILESTONE IS, THAT'S AS MUCH AS OUR ENTIRE GDP, OUR GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT.

HOW MUCH OF A MILESTONE IS THAT AND WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE?

>> WE'RE HITTING A LOT OF PHYSICAL RECORDS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR DEBT AND NONE OF THEM ARE GOOD.

DEBT AS A SHARE OF THE ECONOMY HITTING 100% OF GDP IS SOMETHING THAT HAS RARELY HAPPENED IN THIS COUNTRY, ONLY TWICE BEFORE, ONCE BRIEFLY DURING COVID AND RIGHT AFTER WORLD WAR II.

IT'S AN INAUSPICIOUS SITUATION WHERE WE ARE NOW RUNNING A DEBT THAT IS LARGER THAN THE ENTIRE ECONOMY PRODUCES IN A YEAR, AND THE PROBLEM IS WE ARE PROJECTED TO RACE RIGHT PAST THAT AND BORROW MORE WITH OUR DEBT AS A SHARE OF GDP GROWING.

THERE'S NOTHING MAGICAL ABOUT 100%, IT'S NOT LIKE THAT'S A TIPPING POINT.

IT'S ONE OF THE MANY SPEED BUMPS OR REMINDERS THAT THE FISCAL POLICIES OF THE COUNTRY ARE REALLY UNSOUND AND WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES TO GET IT BACK INTO A TERRITORY WHERE THERE ARE FEWER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT.

THIS IS A BIG WARNING SIGN.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT MARKETS AND NATIONAL DEBT ARE ON DIFFERENT TIME FRAMES.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NATIONAL DEBT, WE SEE PROJECTIONS OF IT GROWING INDEFINITELY.

MARKETS ARE SHORT-TERM ORIENTED, AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT MAKE THE DEBT WORSE CAN FEED MARKETS, BECAUSE THEY LIKE FISCAL STIMULUS, THEY LIKE BIG TAX CUTS, THEY LIKE NEW SPENDING PROGRAMS BECAUSE THOSE JUICE THE ECONOMY IN THE SHORT RUN, THEY CAN HELP YOU THIS YEAR, YEAR AND A HALF, BUT THEY MAKE THINGS WORSE IN THE LONG RUN, THE MORE YOU BORROW THE MORE IT SLOWS DOWN THE ECONOMY, BUT THE MARKET IS VERY SHORT- TERM ORIENTED FOCUSING ON THOSE THINGS, AND THAT'S WHY MARKETS DON'T TEND TO PREDICT WHEN THERE WILL BE SOME KIND OF FISCAL EMERGENCY.

WHAT WE DO SEE IS ONGOING NERVOUSNESS IN THE MARKETS AND WITH INTEREST RATES AS INTEREST RATES ARE GRADUALLY GETTING PUSHED UPWARDS , FOR A LOT OF REASONS, CERTAINLY ONE OF THEM IS ALL OF THE EXCESSIVE BORROWING IN OUR ECONOMY RIGHT NOW PUTS UPWARD PRESSURE ON THOSE INTEREST RATES AND WE'RE SEEING THAT.

>> THE INTEREST RATES GOING UP, PEOPLE HAVING A SHORT-TERM VIEW, BUT ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR THE LONG BONDS, 30 YEAR TREASURIES.

IS THAT A SIGNAL BECAUSE OF THE DEFICIT?

>> A LOT IS GOING ON IN OUR ECONOMY AND OUR WORLD RIGHT NOW BUT ABSOLUTELY.

THE DEFICIT IS ONE OF THE THINGS AFFECTING THE PUSHING UP OF THE 10 YEAR THAT WE'RE SEEING IN MARKETS RIGHT NOW.

ONE THING MARKETS DON'T LIKE IS UNCERTAINTY, THIS IS A WORLD FILLED WITH UNCERTAINTY RIGHT NOW, CLEARLY ON THE GLOBAL STAGE IN TERMS OF GEOPOLITICAL RISKS, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH OIL, BUT, ALSO, WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE WORRYING ABOUT THE DEBT IN THE U. S. AND AROUND THE WORLD BECAUSE THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS FACTORING INTO THIS.

OUR PLANS ARE TO CONTINUE BORROWING AT LEAST $2 TRILLION A YEAR, A LOT OF POLICIES ARE ON THE HORIZON THAT ARE LIKELY TO PUSH THAT UP EVEN MORE, AND POPULISM, THE FACT THAT THE POLITICAL PARTY NOW COMPETE WITH EACH OTHER TO SEE WHO CAN GIVE AWAY MORE TO WIN VOTERS SUPPORT RATHER THAN TAKING A LONGER VIEW, WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING TO GET THE DEBT UNDER CONTROL AND WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN A PLAN, ALL OF THOSE ARE WORRYING MARKETS WHERE THEY SEE THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE INFLATION OVER THE LONGER RUN, HIGHER INTEREST RATES, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT SLOW ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND YOU CAN SEE THE FISCAL UNDERPINNINGS OF THE SITUATION CONTRIBUTED TO THAT ON A REGULAR BASIS THESE DAYS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE RISE OF POPULISM BUT I CAN REMEMBER WHEN POPULISM MEANT BEING AGAINST RUNAWAY FEDERAL SPENDING, BEING AGAINST HAVING TOO MUCH DEBT, WHEN DID THAT CHANGE?

>> IT'S BEEN A HUGE SHIFT, FOR SO LONG THERE HAVE BEEN TWO PARTIES, THEY DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER, BUT ROUTINELY WHEN THE FISCAL SITUATION WOULD GET OUT OF CONTROL AT MUCH LOWER LEVELS THAN WE HAVE TODAY, BOTH PARTIES WOULD COME TOGETHER, ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEM AND PUT IN PLACE REFORMS THAT WOULD GRADUALLY BRING THOSE BORROWING TRAJECTORIES DOWN.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE DON'T SEE ANYMORE, AND THE GROWTH OF PARTISANSHIP AND POPULISM HAS LED TO A LOT OF BIG SHIFTS IN OUR COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

BUT ONE OF THEM IS THAT ALMOST EVERY ELECTION IT FEELS LIKE EXISTENTIAL THREAT, BOTH PARTIES ARE JUSTIFYING ALMOST ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY NEED TO WIN AT ALL COSTS.

ONE OF THE SHIFT HAS BEEN, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GIVE BIG TAX CUTS AND NEW SPENDING PROGRAMS.

IT USED TO BE THAT THERE WAS THE GENERALIZATION THE DEMOCRATS LIKED SPENDING AND REPUBLICANS LIKED TAX CUTS, BOTH OF THOSE WILL MAKE THE FISCAL SITUATION WORTH IF THEY AREN'T PAID FOR.

BUT IT'S SHIFTED WHERE BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS PREFER TAX CUTS, THEY MIGHT LOOK DIFFERENT BUT THEY BOTH LIKE TAX CUTS, AND NEW SPENDING PROGRAMS, AND PROMISES NOT TO FIX THE THINGS WE NEED TO FIX, SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE.

YOU HAVE AN UNHOLY ALLIANCE BETWEEN THE PARTIES OF DOING THE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THE FISCAL SITUATION WORSE, ALL IN DEFENSE OF WINNING ELECTIONS, BUT NONE OF THE ADULTS IN THE ROOM HAVE COME FORWARD TO SAY, OKAY, THIS MILESTONE OF DEBT AS 100% OF GDP OR THE FACT THAT SOCIAL SECURITY IS GOING TO BE INSOLVENT IN SIX YEARS, MEAN THAT WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES.

YOU'RE NOT HEARING THOSE VOICES, NOT SEEING THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP.

>> BOTH PARTIES SEEM TO BE ON A RACE TO CUT TAXES AND DO MORE SPENDING.

YOU SAID THE ADULTS IN THE ROOM AREN'T THERE TO SAY NO.

WHAT CAN WE DO TO STOP THIS?

>> NONE OF THE SOLUTIONS ARE THINGS WE'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH, I WOULD SAY THE PLACE WE NEED TO START IS BY FIXING SOCIAL SECURITY.

IT WILL BE INSOLVENT IN LESS THAN SEVEN YEARS AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS IF WE HAVEN'T MADE CHANGES THERE WILL BE ACROSS THE BOARD BENEFIT CUTS OF 24% FOR EVERY PARTICIPANT.

THAT'S UNCONSCIONABLE, NOBODY THINKS THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

WE KNOW THE THINGS WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE PICS SOCIAL SECURITY, THESE ARE THE THINGS POLITICIANS WON'T TALK ABOUT BUT WE NEED TO GRADUALLY RAISE THE RETIREMENT AGE FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING LONGER, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER MEANS TESTING WHERE WE REDUCE THE BENEFITS FROM WHAT THEY'RE PROMISED TO BE FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T NEED THEM AS MUCH SO THAT WE CAN PROTECT THEM FOR PEOPLE WHO DO.

THERE'S A CAP ON PAYROLL TAXES WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT LIFTING THAT THE TAXES GO ALL THE WAY UP THE INCOME LEVEL, AND THE PROGRAM WOULD BE MORE FUNDED.

THERE'S DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS OF THOSE THINGS, BUT WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THEM.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE PLACES WE CAN GENERATE SAVINGS.

I WOULD SAY LOOK AT DEFENSE PROCUREMENT, THERE IS SAVINGS TO BE HAD.

LOOK AT OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM WHICH IS JUST FILLED WITH INEFFICIENCIES THROUGH THE HOSPITALS, THE INSURERS, PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, ALL OF THOSE INDUSTRIES ARE ACTUALLY FIGHTING AGAINST THE CHANGES THAT WE COULD IMPLEMENT, MANY OF WHICH ARE BIPARTISAN WE SUPPORTED, TO HELP MAKE SAVINGS AND HEALTHCARE.

FINALLY, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT REVENUE, EVERYBODY WHO TALKS ABOUT NO NEW TAXES IS LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GENERATE REVENUE THAT CAN COME FROM ECONOMIC GROWTH BUT THAT WON'T DO IT ON ITS OWN.

WE SHOULD LOOK AT $25 TRILLION IN LOST REVENUE DUE TO TAX BREAKS.

OVER A DECADE, THOSE CREDITS, DEDUCTIONS, EXEMPTIONS, EXCLUSIONS.

THE LIST IS LONG, $7 TRILLION YOUR BUDGET WHERE WE CAN GENERATE SAVINGS , IT'S THAT THEY'RE NOT POLITICALLY EASY TO TALK ABOUT AND WE NEED TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE POLITICIANS ARE ABLE TO BE MORE HONEST ABOUT THE RISKS OF THESE DEFICITS, AND THE REALITIES OF WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO FIX THEM.

>> WE JUST HIT THIS RATHER SHOCKING MILESTONE, OF HAVING OUR TOTAL NATIONAL DEBT EQUAL OUR GDP FOR ONE YEAR, AND YET, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IT SEEMS THE DEFICIT IS GOING TO GO UP 16% THIS COMING YEAR.

THAT'S WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PREDICTS.

IS THAT RIGHT?

IS THAT ADDING TO THIS PROBLEM, IN A SURPRISING WAY?

>> DEFICITS ARE LIKELY TO CONTINUE TO GROW FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.

ONE, THERE IS NEW SPENDING ON THE INVASION, THE GEOPOLITICAL SITUATION THAT WE SEE AROUND THE WORLD, THE SITUATION THAT THE U. S. IS IN, THAT IS GOING TO COST A LOT.

TWO, TARIFF REVENUE WHICH WAS BRINGING IN HAS BEEN DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY THE SUPREME COURT.

WE'LL BE GENERATING LESS IN REVENUE THAN WE'D BEEN HOPING FOR.

AND NOW WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE A NUMBER OF RECONCILIATION BILLS COMING OUT OF CONGRESS WHICH, MY DEEP CONCERN IS THEY WILL BORROW MORE , NOT LESS.

RECONCILIATION IS A PROCESS THAT USED TO BE USED TO REDUCE DEFICITS, WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THAT.

THE RECONCILIATION BILL THAT WE JUST SAW THAT MOVED TAX CUTS FORWARD, THOSE THAT HAVE MOVED SPENDING PROGRAMS, THEY HAVE NOT IMPROVED THE FISCAL SITUATION.

THAT WOULD BE A GREAT THING THAT WE COULD RETURN TO BUT THE PRESSURE IS THAT WE WILL GENERATE MORE BORROWING THAN PLANNED THROUGH ADDITIONAL SPENDING THAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW, AND THE LOSS OF THE TERRACE --TARIFF REVENUE.

THESE DEFICITS ARE LIKELY TO BE 2 TRILLION OR MORE FOR ALL THE COMING YEARS, IT'S ANOTHER REMINDER, JUST LIKE THAT AT 100% OF GDP THAT CHANGES HAVE TO BE MADE.

>> SOMETHING YOU SAID STRUCK ME, WHICH IS THAT THE TARIFF REVENUES, GOING AWAY, MAKE THIS PROBLEM WORSE.

COULD THIS PROBLEM BE SOLVED BY HIGHER TARIFFS, OR DOES THAT HAVE KNOCK ON EFFECTS THAT WOULD BE BAD?

>> TARIFFS WOULD NOT GENERATE NEARLY ENOUGH MONEY TO GENERATE THE SAVINGS WE NEED TO BRING THE FISCAL SITUATION BACK UNDER CONTROL.

IT CERTAINLY WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT STEP.

TARIFFS DO HAVE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHEN PUTTING POLICIES IN PLACE.

WHO DO THEY AFFECT, HOW DO THEY AFFECT THE BUDGET, HOW THEY AFFECT THE ECONOMY?

TARIFFS WOULD NOT BE A FIRST CHOICE FOR REVENUE BUT YOU COULD REPLACE THEM WITH DIFFERENT KINDS OF CONSUMPTION WHICH COULD BE GOOD INCENTIVIZING SAVINGS AND INVESTMENT AND OTHER THINGS.

SO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FISCAL TARGET, A REASONABLE FISCAL TARGET WOULD BE TO BRING OUR DEFICIT FROM 6% OF GDP, WHERE IT IS NOW, TO 3% OF GDP IN A DECADE.

CUT IT IN HALF AS A SHARE OF GDP OVER 10 YEARS.

THAT REQUIRES $10 TRILLION IN SAVINGS.

I DON'T WANT TO DIMINISH THE IMPORTANCE OF THE LEVEL OF CHANGES WE HAVE TO MAKE TO GET THERE.

EVEN THAT IS SHORT OF BALANCING THE BUDGET.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GOAL OF SAVING $10 TRILLION, TARIFFS COULD GENERATE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS BUT THEY COULDN'T DO IT ON THEIR OWN, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL PARTS OF THE FEDERAL BUDGET.

>> YOU'VE BEEN SAYING WE'RE NOT VERY GOOD AT DISCIPLINING OURSELVES THESE DAYS, EITHER PARTY.

IS THERE SOME OUTSIDE FORCE THAT CAN DISCIPLINE US, SUCH AS REALLY BAD RISING INTEREST RATES OR INFLATION OR THE MARKET?

>> IT'S SO SAD THAT IT WILL HAVE TO BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

ONE OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS SAID WE'RE GOING TO FIX THIS PROBLEM, THE QUESTION IS WHETHER IT WILL COME FROM LEADERSHIP OR CRISIS.

IT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY LIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE SOME KIND OF CRISIS THAT THIS IS FORCED UPON US BY BOND MARKETS GETTING SKITTISH, BY FOREIGNERS NOT WANTING TO LEND TO THE U. S. , BY INTEREST RATES CONTINUING TO GROW OR ANOTHER BOUT OF HIGH INFLATION.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS WOULD BE IMPROVED AND AVOIDED IF WE GOT OUR DEFICITS AND DEBT UNDER CONTROL NOW.

THERE'S ANOTHER OUTSIDE FORCE THAT I'M STARTING TO SEE MORE SIGNS OF, WHICH IS, YOUNGER PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR FUTURE.

THEY HAVE THE PRESSURE OF WHAT DOES A. I. MEAN FOR JOBS, HOW IS HIRING OUT OF COLLEGE, BUT ON TOP OF THIS WE KNOW THAT SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE INSOLVENT IN SIX YEARS.

ALL OF THE PLANS ARE GOING TO PROTECT RETIREES, YOUNGER PEOPLE REALIZE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIX THAT ALONG WITH INHERITING TENS OF TRILLIONS OF NATIONAL DEBT.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE YOUNG PEOPLE STARTING TO SEE THIS BORROWING SO WE CAN GO ON A SPENDING SPREE AS A COUNTRY TODAY AND PUSH THE BILLS TO YOUNGER PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE, THAT'S NOT FAIR.

>> LET ME PUSH BACK ON THAT.

DO YOU HAVE ANY SIGNS THAT YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT?

>> I DO, WE'VE BEEN HEARING A LOT RECENTLY AND YOUNGER PEOPLE STARTING TO SAY THAT , UNFORTUNATELY YOU SEE IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA WHICH IS NOT MY FAVORITE PLACE TO HANG OUT, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SIGNS OF THAT.

BEEN ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE STARTING TO COME UP THAT ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS, AND A LOT OF YOUNGER MEMBERS TALK MORE ABOUT THESE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE, IN THE LONG RUN.

I WILL SAY, I DON'T THINK 20- YEAR-OLDS ARE GOING HOME AND TALKING ABOUT THE FISCAL SITUATION THE COUNTRY IS THEIR NUMBER 1 ISSUE, THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE HIGH COST OF STUDENT DEBT, THE INABILITY TO BORROW AND GET A MORTGAGE, BUT WHAT IS LINKED IS THE MORE WE'RE BORROWING TODAY IS ALL PUSHING THOSE COSTS TO BE HIGHER, PART OF THE SUPPORTABILITY CHALLENGE WE HAVE IS THAT BORROWING TODAY IS PUSHING UP INTEREST RATES AND PRICES, MANY OF WHICH ARE AFFECTING YOUNGER PEOPLE.

WE HAVE STARTED TO HEAR MORE FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE STARTING TO WORRY ABOUT THAT ON AN INTERGENERATIONAL ANGLE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA THAT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, A. I. , WILL INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY SO MUCH WE CAN GROW OUR WAY OUT OF THIS?

>> WE'VE LISTENED FOR YEARS FOR ALL SORTS OF FISCAL MYTHS OR THE FREE LUNCH PROMISES, DON'T WORRY, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING HARD, THIS IS GOING TO GET FIXED.

USED TO BE THE UNTRUE ARGUMENT THAT TAX CUTS PAY FOR THEMSELVES.

NO, THEY DON'T.

THERE WERE OTHER THEORIES, WE SHOULD JUST PRINT MONEY, WE SAW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PRINT TOO MUCH MONEY, THAT LEADS TO INFLATION.

WE'VE SEEN THAT HERE AND AROUND THE WORLD.

A. I. IS GOING TO DO TREMENDOUS THINGS AND WE HAVE NO ABILITY TO PREDICT EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

BUT THERE ARE NO CREDIBLE ESTIMATES OUT THERE THAT ARE CALLING FOR A. I. PRODUCTIVITY LEVELS THAT WILL BE SO HIGH THAT IT WOULD FIX THIS, INCLUDING THE ADDITIONAL COST THAT WILL GO ALONG WITH IT.

A. I. IS GOING TO INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY, WE'VE SEEN THE EFFECTS AND WAYS THAT WILL BE ABLE TO, BUT IT WILL ALSO CAUSE JOB DISLOCATION OR JOB TRANSITIONS, IT WILL CAUSE LARGER AMOUNTS OF DISINFORMATION WHICH IS COSTLY, CYBER PROTECTIONS WILL HAVE TO GROW, ENERGY COSTS WHICH MAY GROW UP AND BE INFLATIONARY, ALL THE OTHER TANGENTIAL THINGS AS WE'RE GETTING USED TO THE WORLD WE'RE LIVING IN IS GOING TO HAVE TRANSITION IF NOT PERMANENT COST.

THAT WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAINS.

WE WILL SEE PRODUCTIVITY GROWTH BUT WE WILL ALSO SEE NEW COSTS.

WE SHOULD NOT BE BANKING ON SOMETHING WE DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND TO FIX OUR WAY OUT OF THIS.

WE ARE INCREDIBLY LUCKY IN THAT WE ARE THE RESERVE CURRENCY.

PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS WANTED TO BUY OUR DEBT.

THAT GIVES US A HUGE PRIVILEGE AND THE TIME TO FIX THIS ON OUR OWN TERMS.

BUT IF WE'RE CLINGING TO FALSE PROMISES AND POLITICIANS LOVE THE DON'T WORRY, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING HARD, KIND OF VIEWPOINT, WE COULD END UP IN A WORLD OF PAIN BECAUSE WE DIDN'T TAKE THE REASONABLE MEASURES NOW AHEAD OF TIME TO FIX THIS.

>> SO WE HAVE 39 TRILLION IN DEBT, 100% OF OUR GDP.

WE HAVE TO PAY INTEREST ON THAT DEBT.

I THINK, 20% OF THE BUDGET, NOW IS JUST GOING TO INTEREST PAYMENTS, AND THAT'S MORE THAN EDUCATION, TRANSPORTATION, RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COMBINED.

WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT OUR COUNTRY WHEN WE SPEND MORE PAYING FOR PAST BORROWING THAN WE DO FOR OUR SERVICES?

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST TROUBLING SIGNS THAT WE'RE SEEING, THAT WE ARE SPENDING $1 TRILLION ON INTEREST PAYMENTS A YEAR.

SOME OF WHICH , A GOOD DEAL OF WHICH IS LEAVING OUR ECONOMY AND GOING ABROAD TO FOREIGNERS WHO HAVE LENT TO US.

INTEREST PAYMENTS ARE LARGER THAN NATIONAL DEFENSE, THERE HAS BEEN A STUDY THAT SHOWED NO COUNTRY EVER REMAIN A SUPERPOWER WHEN IT WAS SPENDING MORE ON INTEREST PAYMENTS THE NATIONAL DEFENSE.

IT'S MORE THAN WE SPENT AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ON ALL SPENDING FOR CHILDREN.

TALK ABOUT FOCUSING ON CONSUMPTION FROM THE PAST INSTEAD OF INVESTMENT IN THE FUTURE.

REALLY TROUBLING AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, INTEREST PAYMENTS ARE THE SINGLE FASTEST GROWING PART OF OUR FEDERAL BUDGET.

IT'S THE ONE THING WE DON'T CONTROL.

WE CAN TO BRING THEM DOWN UNLESS WE BRING THE DEFICITS DOWN AND THAT BRINGS THOSE INTEREST RATES DOWN.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS THE RESULT OF PEOPLE SAYING, DEFICITS, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THEM, AND NOW THAT'S CATCHING UP WITH US IN THESE INTEREST PAYMENTS THAT ARE SQUEEZING OUT THE OTHER IMPORTANT PRIORITIES OF THE BUDGET, AND I WOULD SAY AT A TIME WHERE IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A FLEXIBLE BUDGET.

WE KNOW RISKS AROUND THE WORLD ARE GROWING, WE KNOW THAT'S EXPENSIVE, WE KNOW THAT A. I. , WHETHER IT'S THE GREATEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED OR A TERRIBLE DYSTOPIAN THING OR MOST LIKELY SOMETHING IN BETWEEN IS GOING TO HAVE TRANSITION COSTS WHILE WE FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADAPT TO IT.

THAT'S GOING TO REQUIRE PARTNERING WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE PHYSICAL FLEXIBILITY IN OUR BUDGET BECAUSE WE'VE MADE SO MANY PROVINCES AND WE OWE SO MUCH IN INTEREST PAYMENTS RIGHT NOW , SO IT'S GOING TO HAVE A PROFOUND EFFECT AS INTEREST KEEPS US FROM HAVING THE BUDGET THAT WE NEED FOR THE MODERN MOMENT.

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