AMNA NAWAZ: Elon Musk was forced to put more# restrictions on his social media platform X## and its A.I.

chatbot, Grok, this week after its# image generator sparked outrage around the world.

As Liz Landers explains, Grok was and still# is creating nonconsensual sexualized images,## prompting some countries to ban the bot.

LIZ LANDERS: Amna, Musk finally began bowing## to pressure this week and announced that# X will use geo-blocking to prevent Grok## from creating deepfake images of# people in revealing swimsuits,## underwear, and other clothing in# places where the law prohibits it.

But the move has not stopped the stand-alone app# known as Grok Imagine from generating explicit## images.

The late changes have not appeased# regulators, and now the governments of Malaysia,## Indonesia, and the Philippines have banned the# chatbot altogether.

Britain and Canada have## launched probes into Grok and the possibility# of tougher penalties for Musk are on the table.

To help us understand more about# Grok's troubles and why they persist,## I'm joined by Riana Pfefferkorn,## a policy fellow at the Stanford Institute# for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence: Riana, thank you for joining us this Friday.

RIANA PFEFFERKORN, Stanford Institute for# Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence: Thank## you for having me.

LIZ LANDERS: I want to start, with what does# .. these sexually explicit nonconsensual images,## what does this tell us of the safety# of women and minors on the Internet?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: Well, it illustrates that# having your image online or taking a view while## you're just out in public living your life# is no longer safe from being manipulated in## order to depict you in a humiliating and harassing# context in which you never appeared in real life.

That's irrespective of whether you yourself# personally may have an account online,## since other people could post pictures of you or## of your child even if you don't# have the account on X or on Grok.

LIZ LANDERS: Just yesterday, Ashley St.

Clair,# who is the mother of one of Elon Musk's children,## she sued Grok, alleging that it was# negligent and allowed users to post## deepfakes of her in explicit poses even# after she complained to the company.

Here's what she told CBS.

ASHLEY ST.

CLAIR, Plaintiff: Grok said,## I confirm that you don't co.. it continued to produce more and more# images and more and more explicit images.

LIZ LANDERS: How are these images bypassing# Grok's safety systems?

How is this legal?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: So it's a great# question.

I don't have visibility## into what Grok's internal safety systems are.

It sounds like gradually, in response# to regulatory and public pressure,## they have been trying to institute# more safeguards.

But it's really## difficult to implement effective safeguards# against various kinds of unwanted content.

As we can see playing out from Grok's own users,# users are very creative in how they try to get## around any guardrails that may have been built in# order to continue to generate the kind of content## that, even in good faith, a platform may be# trying to inhibit its model from producing.

LIZ LANDERS: Grok has had other problems.# In the past year or so, there was## antisemitic tropes that it was posting.

It even# praised Hitler.

What is the sense in Silicon## Valley and in the tech community about why Grok# is acting this way and cannot get ahold of itself?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: You know,# that's a complicated question.

I would suspect that some part of it# may have to do with what training data## has gone into the model.

It may be that# there isn't child abuse imagery directly## underlying the model here for Grok, but it# might be that it was trained on extremist or## Nazi and white supremacist material.# So that might go to account for it.

And I will note that xAI filed a# lawsuit shortly before New Year's## trying to enjoy a California law that has# just gone into effect that would require## A.I.

companies to transparently release# a summary of their data training sources.

LIZ LANDERS: You wrote a New York# Times op-ed a few days ago.

It said So,## There's one easy solution# to the A.I.

porn problem."

In a nutshell, what would that# be?

What is the solution here?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: Well, I'm not sure that# it's as easy as the headline suggests.

Nevertheless, what I argue in the op-ed for# "The Times" is that A.I.

researchers and A.I.## model developers need what we would call a safe# harbor in the law to enable them to better test## image generation models for their capacity to# produce potentially illegal content without## themselves fearing prosecution for trying in# good faith to better safeguard those models.

LIZ LANDERS: Yes, I thought that was particularly# interesting.

Can you talk a little bit about## what that means, those red teams and how A.I.# researchers basically work on this right now?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: So red-teaming is the practice# of basically trying to act like a malicious user## would and try and attack your model every which# way to see if you can figure out what exploits## may be latent, what loopholes are there, and# then you can try and close those holes in order## to make the product safer and keep actual bad# actors from misusing those potential loopholes.

The problem with illegal imagery in particular# is that there's no exception or defense in the## law for research or testing activities.

And# so we face a situation where the people who## are developing and testing these models know# that the malicious actors are going to try## every which way to exploit those loopholes# and aren't constraining themselves,but they## themselves have to operate effectively# with one hand tied behind their backs.

LIZ LANDERS: The Department of Defense# announced that it's going to start using## Grok after Secretary Hegseth announced this# partnership earlier this week.

Does this raise## concerns with you either from a national security# perspective or from a personnel perspective?

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: I think from both.

For one thing, I do think that the# Department of Defe.. for why taxpayer dollars are# going towards what has become a## notorious nonconsensual deepfake# pornography generation machine.

In addition, it seems like there# might be ways that either these## sorts of misbehaviors that are showing# up within Grok or other potential unknown## exploitable problems with Grok might be# leveraged against American national security## once this product is fully integrated# into even classified Pentagon servers.

LIZ LANDERS: Riana Pfefferkorn, thank you so# much for joining the "News Hour" this evening.

RIANA PFEFFERKORN: Thank you.