- How long do you think the conflict with Canada will go on?

(audience laughing) (clearing throat) - I mean, I actually don't see an end in sight to this.

You know, I really don't.

I mean, I think that as in all things with Trump, everyone will endeavor to find a way for him to be able to declare victory and get out, right?

But, I mean, he's made a real mess of a historic alliance with a neighbor that's done us never any harm.

And I think that it will go to ground in some way or other, but probably not through any formal means.

- Are there consequences to him for doing this?

I mean, I wonder.

That's kind of the- - Yeah.

- I can ask that about anything.

- Right, sure.

- Right?

But why not pick on Canada?

Why not pick on Mark Carney?

Why not refer to Canada incessantly as the 51st state?

He posted something on social media, they're referring to Mark Carney as Governor.

- Yeah.

- I knew what he was doing.

- Of course, of course.

- Of course.

Right.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- But there were no consequences.

- No, no, not at all.

No.

I mean, I do think that even MAGA people, aficionados of the president are saying, "Canada, really?

That wasn't on my bingo card."

- Right.

- You know?

- Yeah.

Sir?

- If, in the next election, the Republicans were to retain power in both houses, do you, as one of our well-informed citizens, see any hope left for this nation's democracy?

- I mean, yes, I do.

I think that there are reasons to be concerned about democracy that also have little to do with Trump.

I was flicking at some of them, relating to just kind of how unfettered capitalism has led to a host of problems.

I mean, it's not Trump's fault, strictly speaking, that most young Americans can't afford to buy a house, can't afford medical care, can't afford to send their kids to college.

Can maybe do one of those three.

- Whose fault is it?

I'll stipulate that it's not his fault.

Then whose fault is it?

- It isn't one person's fault.

I mean, it is a longstanding slide of capitalism without guardrails.

I realize I'm sounding like Bernie Sanders here, but I mean, it's true.

And so, the legislative branch bears some responsibility, so does the executive branch.

But it's also the case that there was a time not so long ago when company towns were sort of lorded over by benevolent corporations who really believed that they had a civic responsibility to treat folks right, and that's gone.

Private equity firms that buy up whole neighborhoods and jack up prices.

So anyway, I could go on and on with this, but suffice it to say that Trump's not entirely responsible for that.

I do think that, I mean, even while controlling both houses in the 119th Congress over the last couple years, it's not like they've gotten a whole lot done.

They've passed the One Big Beautiful Bill.

They passed a very good bipartisan housing bill- - That then he wouldn't sign.

- That he was for before he was against.

But where Trump has put his deep thumbprints on the body politic has been through executive action much more than legislative action.

- Yeah, I mean, look, just to go back, last point on this is to go back to what you were saying earlier about the degree to which you sound like, or somebody on that side of the conversation sounds like Bernie Sanders.

This was the argument several elections ago, that the real divide in the country is not left and right, but it's more horizontal, and below the line are the people for whom the system is not working.

- For sure.

- And they're both Democrats and Republicans- - Yeah.

- By the way.

- The Bernie Sanders people in 2016 had more in common with the Trump people than they did with the Clinton people on some levels.

This is a continuing problem.

- Yeah.

Oh yeah.

No, and I think if anything, and to the extent that there may be hope, it is that this kind of horseshoe effect will only intensify and that people on the left and the right will come to find common cause on this matter.

- Common purpose.

- Yes.

- Okay, good.

Other questions?

Sir.

- So this is a little bit different than the conversation about politics we've been having, but I was curious in response to the story and then the podcast you had done about your experience with your older brother and the subsequent psychedelic trip, if you've been surprised by the audience reaction to it, and what thought that might have brought to you, even following the experience.

- Explain what he's talking about.

(audience laughs) But it's a great story.

- So, I don't know how you guys spent your Thanksgiving.

I spent mine in Tijuana undergoing Ibogaine therapy, which is this very, very intense psychoactive drug that comes from the Iboga plant, which is from Guyana.

And it's not legal in the United States, so you have to go down there to do it.

I had done it because Rick Perry had done it, the former governor of Texas.

And I'd written a story about him, and he really encouraged me to do it.

So had former US Senator of Arizona, Kyrsten Sinema.

And so I figured if Sinema and Perry can do it, I can as well.

- So people don't understand, the reason that Perry had gotten an Ibogaine therapy treatment, he believed it was good for veterans who had PTSD.

- Yes.

- This was a treatment for people who legitimately had problems, and he came to be convinced.

He was converted to the value.

- He was.

Yeah.

And this is a guy who was a real holy roller, who'd never touched marijuana, but who had suffered a couple of concussions when he was a kid and believed that he had suffered some brain damage as a result of that.

So I went down and I did it.

I mean, it's a long magazine story.

It was a long experience.

It was 14 hours of lying flat on my back with an eye mask on, and undergoing probably 12 hours of intense hallucinations and seeing people that I recognized, seeing events that I recognized, also seeing things that I didn't at all.

But I will say that I have done, in my misspent youth, other drugs, and there's nothing quite like this.

I think what the question was referring to also was that I had an older brother who was a very problematic person, who was a year and a half older than me.

He died on 38th and Lamar.

He was hit by a car when he was 23 and I was 22.

The survivor's guilt that I've had from that, but also just grappling with the long shadow that he threw over my life was something that has manifested itself in peculiar ways.

And so, that was one of the other reasons why I sought out the Ibogaine treatment.

- And did it help?

- It did, yes.

Yeah.

I mean, it's nothing.

And you'll find this about veterans too.

There's no silver bullet.

It's not like a switch is flipped and you come a totally different person, but yes, it produced changes.

- Great.

I'm glad you asked that question.

Excellent.

Next.

Hi, Joan.

- Thank you for an interesting discussion.

- Sure.

- How have you not mentioned the Supreme Court?

- I didn't ask.

It's my fault.

It's my show.

- You have not mentioned that.

- I didn't ask.

I mean, as the enablers of what we're seeing now as the new normal- - Right.

- Go, the Supreme Court is at or near the top of the list.

- Sure, sure.

Although, I mean, once again, as they say ad nauseum, elections have consequences, and this was there to be seen that conservative justices were right around the corner.

The Federalist Society was aching to get them on the bench, and Trump took office.

He got lucky.

Mitch McConnell made him even luckier.

And yes, we're seeing right now that, I mean, it's interesting, because the Supreme Court has not given Trump everything he wants.

There are a couple of justices, Alito and Thomas, who pretty much have, who voted every way the president would.

If he just asked them to, it would come out the way it has.

But with Amy Coney Barrett, for example, I mean, it's- - Kavanaugh this week singularly denied Missouri's attempt to put the redistricting map in effect that would've been for Trump's benefit.

- Right.

But it's an important thing to bring up, because it's entirely possible, and so it's salient to 2026, that Alito could leave the bench, or that Sotomayor, who has had health issues, that something could happen to her, God forbid, and that Trump would get one more selection.

- Well, there is a suspicion that, depending upon the outcome of this election, Thomas and Alito might decide, heading into '28, "Better to get out now, let him have the appointments."

But it's one of the many reasons why the majority control of the Senate is so important.

- Right.

Yes, that's right.

Exactly.

But why that's important, that's not just replacing one conservative justice with another conservative justice.

That's replacing one who is 75 years old- - With one who is 42.

- With one who's 45 or whatever.

Right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

- Robert Draper is the GOAT.

(audience laughs) What a great conversation and how lucky we are to have him back.

Please give him a big hand.

Robert Draper.

(audience applauds)