GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: five Americans detained in Iran now returning home.

The prisoner swap that gained their freedom and unfreezes billions of dollars in Iranian assets.

GEOFF BENNETT: In an exclusive TV interview, Turkey's president discusses the state of NATO, Russia's war on Ukraine and why his country might soon end its bid to become a part of the European Union.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, Turkish President (through translator): For the last 50 years, we have been waiting at the doorstep of E.U.

And, at that moment in time, I trust Russia just as much as I trust the West.

AMNA NAWAZ: And Republican presidential candidates descend on Iowa, hoping to win evangelical voters' support with their stances on abortion, guns and much more.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour."

Five Americans held for years by the regime in Iran are on their way home tonight, freed after high-stakes negotiations.

AMNA NAWAZ: In return, the U.S. is granting clemency to Iranians held in American prisons, and unfreezing almost $6 billion in assets held in South Korea.

The U.S. says that money is now available to purchase humanitarian goods and equipment.

For those freed from Iran today, it's the end of an ordeal.

The five Americans flew towards freedom this morning, imprisoned by the Iranian regime for years, released in a complex deal between the U.S. and Iran.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: It's very good to be able to say that our fellow citizens are free after enduring something that I think would be difficult for any of us to imagine.

AMNA NAWAZ: Siamak Namazi, Emad Shargi and Morad Tahbaz were three of the five Americans on the flight from Tehran to Doha, Qatar.

The other two detainees wish to remain anonymous.

Each was held on various charges, but determined by the U.S. State Department to be wrongfully detained.

In a statement, Emad Shargi's sister Neda said -- quote -- "This is my brother, not an abstract policy.

We are talking about human lives.

There is nothing partisan about saving the lives of innocent Americans, and today should be a moment of American unity as we welcome them home."

In a deal struck with the Iranians, the five Americans were released in exchange for grants of clemency by the U.S. government for five Iranian nationals, Kaveh Lotfolah Afrasiabi, Mehrdad Ansari, Amin Hasanzadeh, Reza Sarhangpour Kafrani, and Kambiz Attar Kashani, and the transfer of $6 billion in frozen Iranian assets held in South Korea to a restricted account in Qatar.

Iran can only use the funds for humanitarian purposes.

Two of the five Iranians released, Kafrani and Ansari, we're seen in Qatar headed back to Iran.

NASSER KANAANI, Iranian Foreign Ministry (through translator): We are hoping to get the Iranian assets under full control today, and the funds are deposited into the account the Islamic Republic of Iran announced in a friendly regional country.

AMNA NAWAZ: Some lawmakers have been critical of the Biden administration for making a deal with Iran.

SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): Even a simple prisoner swap would still be grossly unjust, because, again, the Americans in Iran have done nothing wrong.

AMNA NAWAZ: But U.S. officials have defended the agreement.

JOHN KIRBY, NSC Coordinator For Strategic Communications: When we're trying to bring Americans home, we often aren't dealing on a level playing field.

We have to use the leverage we have to bring them home.

They aren't going to be released for nothing in exchange.

AMNA NAWAZ: In New York for the United Nations General Assembly, Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi met this morning with journalists, and said the exchange may lead to further dialogue between the U.S. and Iran.

Let's hear more from someone close to one of the Americans released today, Jared Genser, a human rights attorney and pro bono counsel for the family of Siamak Namazi.

He has worked on the campaign for Namazi's release and joins us from Geneva.

Jared, welcome.

Good to see you.

JARED GENSER, Attorney for Siamak Namazi: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, Siamak had been held for nearly eight years.

Have you spoken directly with him since he has been freed?

Has his family?

JARED GENSER: I -- yes, I have.

In fact, he gave me a call right before they took off to say they were about to be wheels up.

And then, when he landed, I saw on a big screen in my hotel room him coming down the stairs, which was kind of an extraordinary moment for me and kind of surreal, given how much time I have spent with him over so many years, not only talking to him, but advocating around the world with his family.

And a short time after he came down the stairs, he gave me a call and said, with a huge amount of joy: "Jared, I'm free."

And this is what we'd all been waiting for.

AMNA NAWAZ: You tweeted a photo of him with a great big smile.

He looks just about as happy as anyone could be.

We know he's going to be assessed medically and psychologically, right, as -- be given the support that he needs for former detainees and hostages.

And we all remember this desperate high-risk interview he gave back in March from inside Evin prison.

JARED GENSER: Yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: But what can you tell us about his mental state, his emotional state?

JARED GENSER: Well, I mean, I think I have been through this many times with clients of mine who have been hostages, American hostages around the world.

And it's overwhelming, the enormity of it.

I mean, this is, obviously, front-page news, top story all around the world.

And he's living it, right?

And he knew it was coming, obviously.

He had been under house arrest for a number of weeks with the other hostages.

And we had a lot of conversations about how this was going to feel.

And often, it feels a little bit like an out-of-body experience.

You have been hoping and praying this day would finally come, but, when it does, it's - - it kind of sneaks up on you.

And there are two aspects of it that are so difficult.

One is what he's been through, and ultimately having to kind of unclench his fist after years and years and years of having to stand at the regime in order to survive.

And then the other one is, he's lost some of the best years of his life.

And he wants to get married and have kids, and he needs to find a job and a place to live, and all these details that you could imagine that a person would have to go through in these circumstances.

So, it's going to take him some time to get his bearing.

And I have encouraged him to take it slow and one step at a time, and not jump in with both feet.

And I think, ultimately, that the media will recede and he will be able to return to his life.

But it's important to remember that it wasn't just Siamak who was a hostage.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

JARED GENSER: But his father, Baquer Namazi, was famously a hostage after going back to try to see him in prison, where he had been held incommunicado in Iran, and himself detained at the age of 79 and spent three years in Evin prison, not ever seeing his son, but near him and almost dying there, and then several more years trapped in Iran, despite his sentence having been commuted.

And Baquer Namazi only got out about a year-and-a-half ago.

So this has been one extraordinary and horrific ordeal for the family.

And in a few hours, for the first time in nine or 10 years, the family will finally be together.

AMNA NAWAZ: We heard some powerful statements, read some powerful statements from the families today, of course.

Bahareh Shargi, who's Emad Shargi's wife, said in a phone call to the president earlier today -- quote -- "This was the first time in five years that we once again have light in our home."

Morad Tahbaz's family thanked President Biden for -- quote -- "making the difficult, but necessary decision to prioritize the lives of American citizens over politics."

Siamak echoed that gratitude in his statement.

And he also said: "Two thousand eight hundred and ninety-eight days of what should have been the best days of my life were stolen from me and supplanted with torment.

What I want more than anything is assurance no one else will know the interminable anguish that my family and I experienced."

Jared, as you know, there's an argument out there that this was not a good deal, that this will encourage more hostage-taking.

What do you make of that argument?

JARED GENSER: Well, I approach this as a human rights partisan, not a political one.

And the reality is, is that Republican and Democratic presidents going back to the hostage-taking in '79 and going back to the beginning of our history have wrestled with this issue and failed repeatedly to address it.

For the Namazis, it's worth noting that they felt no difference in the policies of Barack Obama and Donald Trump.

And let me just explain briefly what I mean.

Siamak Namazi was left behind by President Obama in the hostage deal, along with the nuclear deal, in 2016.

And, from there, Secretary Kerry told the family, well, he will be out in a couple of weeks.

This is what we have heard.

Instead, Baquer Namazi got detained.

And by the end of the Obama administration, both Baquer Namazi and Siamak Namazi were hostages and had 10-year sentences for collaborating with the enemy.

Then, President Trump comes along, and we hope, along with the family, I hope, that President Trump is talking about maximum pressure on Iran.

And we're like, great, maximum pressure.

Let's see if that works, right?

And it turns out that the maximum-pressure campaign in Iran was a zero-pressure policy on American hostages.

Indeed, there was not a single action taken by President Trump to put any pressure on Iran that directly connected to hostages that had any impact.

And so, four years later, not only were the Namazis still in jail, but, despite having been promised at the beginning of the administration that it wouldn't happen, the Namazis were left behind two more times, where Americans that were taken later were -- deals were struck to get them out, and the Namazis were again left behind.

So what's the difference for the Namazis between Donald Trump and Barack Obama?

And the answer is nothing.

And the reason is because, tragically, no administration seems to take this issue as a serious priority.

I'm very glad that President Biden got this done.

But the reality is, is that this is not a top priority of this administration, really, or any other.

And the reality is, is that we need to take a dramatically different direction if we want to end the practice of state-sponsored hostage-taking.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jared, the work to try to free these Americans had stopped and started multiple times over the many years.

What made the difference this time?

JARED GENSER: Well, I mean, I think that this is the biggest challenge of taking out a case where you're talking about a hostage in Iran, because of the very long and detailed history and difficult history.

The reality is, is, you have to get both countries to come together at the same time and be willing to talk.

And there are 1,000 things conspiring against you to have that happen in that sequence.

And so I think that this is the tragic reality that we have dealt with over the course of our country's history, and especially going back to '79, which is, we have many higher priorities with Iran, nuclear issues, missiles, terrorism and other kinds of things.

And the reality is, is that no administration has really focused on the freeing of American hostages as a priority within the overall Iran policy framework for the United States.

And this is what has to change, in my view.

The reality is, is that it is a wonderful thing for a dictator and a country like Iran to be able to take hostages.

There's no consequence when they do so.

And, eventually, all countries around the world, including the United States, ultimately cave and strike a deal.

And we have seen this happen over and over and over again.

And so what we need is draconian disincentives to be created, not just by the U.S., but by the U.S. working with, like, dozens of countries around the world, so that if one hostage is taken from one country, 30 or 40 countries come down like a ton of bricks on the back of that country and dramatically change and disrupt the value proposition of taking hostages in the first place.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Jared Genser, human rights attorney and pro bono counsel for the family of Siamak Namazi, who's just been freed after nearly eight years' detention in Iran.

Jared, thank you.

Good to see you.

JARED GENSER: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: And for the White House perspective, we turn to Jon Finer, President Biden's deputy national security adviser.

He joins us from the United Nations.

Welcome back to the "NewsHour."

JON FINER, U.S. Deputy National Security Adviser: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: And there are questions, as you well know, about what Iran is getting in exchange for freeing these five American citizens, namely, the release of nearly $6 billion in frozen Iranian assets.

The U.S. maintains that this money can only be used for humanitarian purposes, food and medicine.

But the hard-line president of Iran in a recent interview with NBC said the money will be spent -- quote -- "wherever we need it."

How does the U.S. respond to that assertion?

JON FINER: Well, first of all, thanks for having me.

The United States knows very well what's been agreed to in this deal, and that is basically the transfer of these funds from one highly restricted account in Qatar to another -- sorry - - in South Korea to another highly restricted account in Qatar, and that Iran is only authorized to use these funds for humanitarian purposes, things like food and medicine and medical devices and agricultural products.

And the United States will be monitoring the transactions that take place from this account to make sure that it's used for those purposes.

And if Iran deviates from the use that has been authorized, the United States has options to be able to freeze those funds again.

So, whatever is being said by government officials in Iran -- and, by the way, you read one quote.

I have seen other quotes from Iranian officials acknowledging that they have agreed to these humanitarian restrictions.

We know the purpose that's been authorized, and they will need to stick to that, or else we have options at our disposal as well.

GEOFF BENNETT: Can the administration guarantee that the money won't end up in the hands of Iran's elite military guard or be used to fund and arm militants across the Middle East?

JON FINER: What I can tell you is, none of these funds are going to end up in Iran at all.

These funds will be available for the authorized uses, again, just for humanitarian purposes, for Iran to make purchases like food and medicine.

But, taking a step back, you jumped sort of immediately to the funds, and I understand why that is, given some of the discourse.

But I think the bigger picture here is that there are five Americans who have been held in Iran for varying lengths of time, some going back a number of years, at least one as far back as 2016, who will now be reunited with their families and are on their way to just that sort of reunion.

The president had the opportunity to speak with those families earlier today to underscore how highly he valued the fact that they would be reunited with their loved ones.

And, for us, that is the priority, and that is the most important thing that came out of today.

GEOFF BENNETT: There are Republicans who are accusing President Biden of paying what they characterize as ransom to a world state sponsor of terrorism.

These lawmakers say that they're glad when Americans are freed from captivity, but that deals like this one only encourage hostage-taking by aggressive regimes.

What's your response to that?

JON FINER: Well, we totally reject that characterization.

For one thing, these funds are not coming out of U.S. accounts.

They're not U.S. funds or taxpayer money or anything like that.

These are Iranian funds that were held in one account being moved to an Iranian account in a different country.

And then, second, these funds are not even going into Iran itself.

They're being made available to Iran to spend, as I said, on humanitarian purposes.

So I think that characterization seems to me to be wholly misleading in terms of what these funds are and how they will be used by the Iranians.

GEOFF BENNETT: On a separate issue, more than a year of talks to restore the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, which former President Trump unilaterally abandoned back in 2018, those talks collapsed last summer.

Iran now enriches uranium closer than ever to weapons-grade levels.

Is there a hope, is there an expectation that the progress made on this prisoner issue could pave a way for progress on the nuclear issue?

So JON FINER: So, I want to be clear about a few things.

One, the United States did this deal on the merits.

We did not do it to unlock cooperation or collaboration or negotiation any other topic.

We did this to get five Americans back home and reunited with their families.

Second, we have been clear in this administration that we favor a diplomatic solution to the threat posed by Iran's nuclear program, that we favor direct negotiations with Iran, and that we favor attempts to restore nuclear - - diplomatic constraints on Iran's nuclear program that would reduce the level of threat, about which we all in the international community are concerned.

It's been the Iranians, frankly, who have not been open to those direct conversations with the United States up until now and who have been less willing to go back to the nuclear deal that was made a couple of administrations ago.

Whether or not this arrangement creates more momentum in that other conversation, it is far too early to tell, but the most important thing is that we did this on the merits and to get those Americans home.

GEOFF BENNETT: Lastly, Jon Finer, Amna spoke exclusively to Turkish President Erdogan in an interview we're set to see later on the program this evening.

And he says the U.S. sales of F-16 fighter jets to Turkey should not be linked with Turkey's ratification of Sweden's NATO membership.

He says -- quote -- "I believe these two topics shouldn't be related."

How does the U.S. see it?

Is there still a path forward?

JON FINER: Well, what I can say about this is, it is not the policy of this administration to link those two issues.

This administration has been supportive of the transfer of F-16s to Turkey.

There are a number of members of Congress who have had a different view and who have wanted to see certain steps taken by Turkey before they will either lift holds or authorize the transfer of these systems to the Turks.

We're working very closely with Congress to do just that.

But in terms of any linkage, it is not coming from President Biden or this administration.

We have been supportive of the transfer of those F-16s to Turkey.

GEOFF BENNETT: What's your expectation for when that will happen?

JON FINER: Look, I'm not going to get ahead of ongoing discussions with members of Congress or their own decision-making.

Our view is that these systems should be transferred to the Turks.

And, by the way, our view is also that the Turks should complete the ratification of Sweden's accession to NATO.

But we are not linking these issues.

We are in support of both of those steps.

GEOFF BENNETT: Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer, thanks again for your time.

We appreciate it.

JON FINER: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines: The autoworkers strike is now in its fourth day with no bargaining agreement in sight.

Ford, General Motors and Stellantis proposed wage hikes of about 20 percent over four years.

But that's only half the amount the United Auto Workers union is demanding.

Picket lines in Wayne, Michigan, blocked the entrance to the Ford assembly plant today.

Workers and their supporters say the walkouts are long overdue.

REP. HALEY STEVENS (D-MI): I'm talking to workers and retirees.

I'm asking people how they're feeling.

They're feeling resolved.

They're feeling united.

They're feeling solidarity, and they know what they are doing is right to get their fair share.

GEOFF BENNETT: Automakers say the strike's ripple effects are just beginning.

Ford has already told 600 non-striking employees not to report to work, while GM says as many as 2,000 workers could be temporarily laid off at a Kansas plant this week.

In Libya, the U.N. is warning that disease outbreak could cause a -- quote -- "second devastating crisis" in the country's flood-ravaged Northeast.

Authorities say at least 150 people have fallen ill from tainted water.

Sanitation workers in hazmat suits have been working around the clock in the hard-hit city of Derna to disinfect contaminated areas and prevent the spread of disease.

AKBAR AL-QATAANI, Benghazi Environmental Directorate (through translator): The campaign has continued to its sixth day.

Since the catastrophe, we've been sanitizing the streets, mosques, shelters where displaced people are staying, mortuary refrigerators, and bodies using healthy materials.

We also toured undamaged neighborhoods and sanitized them.

GEOFF BENNETT: Elsewhere in the city, another wave of much-needed humanitarian aid arrived.

The overall death toll from the floods now stands at 11,300 people.

The Red Crescent estimates some 10,000 more are still missing.

Ukraine's Defense Department reshuffled its leadership today, firing all six deputy ministers.

The dismissals come amid corruption allegations related to purchasing equipment.

A new defense minister was appointed earlier this month.

That's as heavy fighting continues in the east.

Ukrainian troops held onto liberated villages along the front lines, while blasts in Russian-occupied areas damaged government offices.

Taiwan says China flew 103 warplanes toward its territory over a 24-hour period.

Their Defense Ministry called it a recent high, even as China has increased military drills around the self-governing island that it claims as its own.

Today, Taiwan's Defense Ministry urged China to stop its -- quote -- "destructive military actions."

Hunter Biden sued the IRS today for violating his right to privacy.

The lawsuit alleges that two agents tried to embarrass Mr. Biden by disclosing confidential information about his tax matters.

This comes amid an ongoing investigation by House Republicans and days after an indictment on separate charges related to a handgun purchase.

And trading was light on Wall Street today.

The Dow Jones industrial average gained six points to close at 34624.

The Nasdaq rose two points.

The S&P 500 added three.

And still to come on the "NewsHour": our Politics Monday team breaks down the Republican candidates' campaign stops in Iowa; and stock markets for artwork, the pros and cons for investors and art itself.

AMNA NAWAZ: The nation of Turkey sits at a crossroads of the world.

And its president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is its preeminent leader.

Reelected to office earlier this year, Erdogan has now been in power for 22 years.

Both a NATO and U.S. ally, Turkey's connections to the West are important and vital.

But Erdogan will go his own way when it suits him, as he told me yesterday.

We sat down for an exclusive interview at the Turkish house across the street from the United Nations, where he will speak this week.

President Erdogan, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us.

I appreciate it.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, Turkish President: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask about recent comments you made.

You said just yesterday that your country may abandon its bid to join the European Union.

They previously cited concerns, as you know, about democratic backsliding and human rights.

You have been seeking that E.U.

membership since 1999.

Are you prepared to abandon that bid?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): We attach great importance to the decision made by the E.U.

If the E.U.

would take such a step forward by making such a decision, we would welcome it.

Turkey has been lingering at the doorstep of the E.U.

for the last five decades, and we were always self-sufficient.

We never relied on contributions or support we received from the E.U., so it's not even necessary for us.

AMNA NAWAZ: In July, you suggested that the E.U.

should admit Turkey into the E.U.

if it wanted to see Sweden in NATO.

Do you see those two issues as linked, in your view?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): First and foremost, Sweden's position and our current position within the E.U.

accession negotiations are two separate things.

We have repeatedly stated that we were ready to support Sweden's bid to join NATO, but Sweden is supposed to rise up to the occasion and keep their promises, because, on the streets of Stockholm, we still see terrorists wandering around freely.

AMNA NAWAZ: You did agree at the NATO summit in July, though, to forward Sweden's NATO bid to Turkish Parliament, correct?

So do you expect them to take that up when they reconvene in early October?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Sweden's bid to join NATO is being assessed by the Turkish Grand National Assembly, and that's where it's going to be eventually ratified.

AMNA NAWAZ: When you say, eventually, it will be considered, do you think that will happen when they reconvene in early October?

When's your expectation of when Parliament will vote on that?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): This is a part of the agenda of the Turkish Grand National Assembly.

The Assembly will see the situation within the framework of its own calendar.

This proposal will come to a vote by the parliamentarians.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, to be clear, I don't hear you committing that this is something you see them taking up anytime soon.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): For that to be happening, of course, Sweden should keep its promises.

Terrorist organizations should immediately stop their demonstrations on the streets of Stockholm, and they should stop their activities, because seeing this actually happening is going to be very important for the Turkish people.

Sweden seemingly carried out legislative amendments, but it's not enough.

AMNA NAWAZ: What about the U.S. sale of F-16s to Turkey?

Do you see that as linked to Turkey supporting Sweden joining NATO?

Because the day after you agreed to forward Sweden's NATO bid to your Parliament, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said that Washington would move forward with that F-16 sale.

In your mind, are the two issues linked?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I believe these two topics shouldn't be related, because while, primarily, President Biden said that this issue was tied to the Congress, we would always say, OK, we have the Turkish Parliament.

So, these issues are tied to the Parliament.

If the Parliament doesn't make a positive decision about this bid, then there's nothing to do.

AMNA NAWAZ: As you know, there are skeptics in the U.S. Congress of that F-16 sale.

Among them is the chairman of the Senate's powerful Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Menendez.

I spoke with him last week, and he cites a number of reasons he's opposed to the sale right now, you threatening Greek security, the jailing of journalists and opposition politicians, not joining the Western alliance and sanctioning Russia.

And he said: "Turkey has the opportunity to show us and the rest of NATO that it is part of the team."

What do you say to that?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Bob Menendez is not very familiar with Turkey.

And Menendez doesn't seem to be familiar with Tayyip Erdogan either.

We are friends with Greece for many decades.

We have never been fighting camps against one another.

It seems like Menendez has taken a hostile approach to Turkey and he's trying to pull us toward certain discussions of his choosing.

But we are not going to be part of this.

Our friendship with Greece is not what they make it out to be.

AMNA NAWAZ: What do you make of the senator's concerns, especially in light of Russia's war in Ukraine, of Turkey not joining in sanctioning Russia to the same degree the NATO alliance is and other members of the E.U.?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Are we supposed to do what the E.U.

members are doing?

Turkey has a different position in the world.

And the E.U.

member states have their different positions.

Russia happens to be one of my closest neighbors.

And we have a common history.

And, similarly, this is how the current process is continuing.

We have launched the grain corridor.

Altogether, 33 million tons of grain were exported to the rest of the world using the Black Sea.

And we didn't do this just because the E.U.

asked us to do so.

It was a humanitarian obligation that we assumed.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Moscow did renege on that deal earlier this month.

And after your early September meeting with Putin, he didn't agree to renew the grain deal.

Can you tell us why that failed?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): We requested this from him, and he said he was going to send one more million tons of grain.

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you know when that will happen?

Because as we understand, those exports have not restarted.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): He said that it was going to be released soon, and we were following the developments.

AMNA NAWAZ: And do you trust him that he will make good on that pledge?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I have no reason not to trust them.

To the extent the West is reliable, Russia is equally reliable.

For the last 50 years, we have been waiting at the doorstep of the E.U., and, at this moment in time, I trust Russia just as much as I trust the West.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what is that based on?

Because there are a number of critics who will look at the leadership of President Putin and say he is not to be trusted, that even continuing to hold back on the grain deal allows him greater leverage for his war in Ukraine.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I don't agree.

Half of my natural gas supplies are coming from Russia, which means we have solidarity.

We are taking mutual steps forward, and we are cooperating in the field of defense industry as well.

We can do these things with Russia.

AMNA NAWAZ: What about the war, the continuing war in Ukraine?

Did you speak about that?

Do you have an understanding of how he views it?

Does President Putin believe that he is winning that war?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I can't say.

We didn't talk about this.

But I need to be very clear and very frank.

It's quite obvious that this war is going to last a long time.

And for the war to end as soon as possible, we would like to be very hopeful.

And Mr. Putin is actually on the side of ending this war as soon as possible.

AMNA NAWAZ: What leads you to believe he would like to end the war?

Nothing we have seen on the battlefield indicates that.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I'm just taking into account the words of the leader.

And Mr. Putin is on the side of ending this war as soon as possible.

That's what he said.

And I believe his remarks.

AMNA NAWAZ: Do you think that Ukraine will be successful in expelling Russia from Ukrainian territory, including Crimea?

And is that a goal that you support?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Back in the year 2014, I had certain discussions and talks with President Putin on Crimea.

And I was not successful in my deliberations.

And I couldn't make them withdraw from Crimea.

And I think it's not going to be possible for the time being either.

I think time will only tell.

AMNA NAWAZ: How long do you see this war going?

And how do you see it ending?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): It's impossible for me to give you a calendar about when this war will end or how long it will go.

Only the leaders of the both parties will be able to tell you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Let me ask you more big picture, do you see more of a benefit to your nation's relationship with Russia or with the U.S.?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): This question cannot be asked to a political leader, because the way I engage in politics, to the extent possible, is all about establishing contacts with the nations around the world based on a win-win scenario.

Just as I have good relations with the U.S., similarly, I will have good relations with Russia.

I will continue to have a relationship with the E.U.

member states based on the same approach as well, win-win.

AMNA NAWAZ: There have been a number of high-profile arrests and some recent sentencing in your country that I wanted to ask you about that have gained international attention.

There was a former journalist named Sedef Kabas who was charged with insulting you in tweets.

There was an activist named Osman Kavala who was just in April sentenced to life in prison, another opposition politician, Selahattin Demirtas, who's been serving jail time since 2016.

And your critics will say that jailing many of these people gives the impression that you want them silenced, that they're in some way threatening you.

So are you threatened by these people?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Why are you so interested in this?

Turkey has a state of law.

Such decisions can only be made by the judiciary.

And if this is what the judiciary has decided to do, let the decisions or the judgments of the judiciary be respected and executed.

I'm not in a position to serve in the name of the judiciary.

This man you have referred to was a financier during these demonstrations, during these protests.

And... AMNA NAWAZ: You're speaking of Osman Kavala; is that right?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): I'm speaking about Osman Kavala.

AMNA NAWAZ: But what about Sedef Kabas?

Should someone be jailed and charged for insulting you in tweets?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): No, I'm not getting involved in this.

The judgments are made by the judiciary, and the same thing applies for Selahattin Demirtas.

He is a terrorist who caused the death of more than 200 people, and the judgment on this terrorist was given by the judiciary again.

AMNA NAWAZ: I will say the European -- pardon the interruptions, sir.

The European Court of Human Rights disagrees with that assessment.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): Don't interrupt.

You have no right to interrupt.

You're not going to interrupt me.

And respect me.

And you are going to respect the judgment of the judiciary as well.

The American judiciary is a full-fledged judiciary.

So is the judiciary of Turkey.

And you have to respect that.

We are a state of law, and inside that state of law, this is how we lived, and this is how we will keep on living.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Erdogan, the Committee to Protect Journalists says Turkey is the fourth most prolific jailer of journalists in the world.

Why are there so many journalists in jail in your nation?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): How many journalists are currently in prison?

Do you have any information?

AMNA NAWAZ: I do, sir.

According to the CPJ, the number doubled from 2021 to 2022.

There were 18 in 2021, more than 40 in 2022.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): If they were supportive of terrorism, those who are supporting terrorism, where would they live or roam freely around the world?

These people have been supportive of terrorism.

They were supporting terrorism, and that the judiciary made judgments on these people.

AMNA NAWAZ: I appreciate you answering those questions, sir.

If I can, what would you like the American people to understand about the current relationship between the U.S. and Turkey?

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN (through translator): The American people, I believe, are following Turkey.

And so long as you produce healthy news and coverage, I think the American people will have access to this healthy information flowing to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, thank you so much for your time.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN: Thank you.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Republican presidential hopefuls took center stage in Iowa over the weekend, making their case to a key voting bloc in that state, white evangelicals.

The candidates touched on various issues important to religious conservatives, abortion in particular.

Laura Barron-Lopez has more.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: This weekend in Iowa, a focus on faith.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS (R-FL), Presidential Candidate: Our rights were endowed by the hand of almighty God.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And guns.

FMR.

GOV.

ASA HUTCHINSON (R-AR), Presidential Candidate: As president, I will make sure that our Second Amendment is protected.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: As most of the Republican presidential hopefuls courted voters four months before the state's first-in-the-nation caucuses.

MAN: You ready to hear from these presidential candidates?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: One critical voting bloc, evangelicals, who made up nearly two-thirds of Republican caucus-goers in 2016.

(APPLAUSE) LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Most candidates made their pitch Saturday at the Annual Faith and Freedom Dinner in Des Moines.

MIKE PENCE (R), Presidential Candidate: So, there is a debate within the party today, Ralph, and it's an important debate.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: On display, divides inside the GOP on a critical issue for conservative voters, abortion.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis touted recent six-week bans enacted in Iowa and his home state.

GOV.

RON DESANTIS: I think the states have done the better job thus far.

Congress has really struggled to make a meaningful impact over the years.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: While former Vice President Mike Pence pushed for a 15-week national ban.

MIKE PENCE: It's a 15-week minimum ban.

I believe it's an idea whose time has come.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: A proposal former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley dismissed as unrealistic.

NIKKI HALEY (R), Presidential Candidate: Tell people the truth.

You go and you put this ban of 15 weeks, and what does it do?

It has everybody running from us.

What about if we got people running to us?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: And former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson said he would sign a national ban with reasonable exceptions.

He also took aim at comments made by former President Donald Trump, who skipped the event.

FMR.

GOV.

ASA HUTCHINSON: Both sides aren't going to like you.

This is going to be a fight for life.

And we have been doing that for 40 years.

You take a stand.

You state your position.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: During an interview on "Meet the Press," Trump, who leads his GOP opponents by more than 30 points in Iowa, dodged specifics about the abortion restrictions he would support.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: We're going to agree to a number of weeks or months or however you want to define it.

And both sides are going to come together.

And both sides, both sides -- and this is a big statement -- both sides will come together, and, for the first time in 52 years, you will have an issue that we can put behind us.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: At the federal level?

DONALD TRUMP: It could be state or it could be federal.

I don't, frankly, care.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: As president, Trump appointed three justices to the Supreme Court, which led to the overturning of Roe v. Wade and cleared the way for Republican states to enact laws restricting abortion.

For Republican voters in Iowa, however, their support for abortion restrictions is clear.

In a recent Emerson College poll, 38 percent of Republicans said abortion should be banned at all times.

Another 26 percent support a ban after six weeks.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Laura Barron-Lopez.

GEOFF BENNETT: For analysis of the 2024 presidential campaign and how voters are reacting to the impeachment inquiry that House Republicans are launching, we turn to Amy Walter of The Cook Political Report With Amy Walter and Kay Henderson of Radio Iowa and Iowa PBS.

It's great to see you both.

So, let's pick up where Laura left off in her report.

Donald Trump, the man who nominated three of the Supreme Court justices responsible for overturning Roe, now says that Republicans, in his words, speak very inarticulately about abortion, and he criticized those who push for abortion bans without exemptions.

What do you make of the message, Amy, and the messenger?

AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Right.

I saw two things here.

One is, he was almost acting like a pundit, looking back at the 2022 elections and some of the ballot initiatives on abortion that had put forward and seeing how badly Republicans have done in the wake of Roe v. Wade being overturned, how abortion has really been an energizing issue for Democrats and has helped them do much better than anybody expected in the midterm elections.

I also see somebody who's looking past not just his past positions on this issue, but looking past the primary.

He's basically trying to set himself up for the general election.

And this question about whether this is the kind of issue that Republican voters are going to punish Donald Trump for taking a much more - - I mean, I don't kind of know where he ended up after that conversation.

He was a little bit here.

He's a little bit there.

But he did come out specifically and go after Ron DeSantis and say, six weeks is -- I can't remember the exact word.

GEOFF BENNETT: A terrible mistake.

AMY WALTER: Oh, a terrible mistake, yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: Terrible mistake is the phrase that he used.

AMY WALTER: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, Kay, you spoke to Governor DeSantis about that.

What was his response?

KAY HENDERSON, News Director, Radio Iowa: Well, basically, DeSantis is suggesting this puts Donald Trump's pro-life credentials in question.

And I would also add that Trump has had an ongoing sort of feud with Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds.

She is the most popular Republican in the state that's going to host the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses.

She also signed a six-week abortion ban this summer.

And he called it terrible.

GEOFF BENNETT: Amy, you mentioned the pivot that the former president is making from the primary to the general.

Is there a risk in doing that too early?

Or is he so far ahead that it doesn't make a difference?

AMY WALTER: Yes, he doesn't seem to be worried about this.

And what I thought was really interesting, I mean, Kay is sitting in Iowa, so it was there, but I was just reading reports of what was going on at the conference this weekend.

And so there was one woman there who they interviewed who to me sort of summed up how this issue plays with a lot of Republican voters who define themselves as pro-life, who may have told those pollsters, yes, I support a complete ban.

But when you ask them specifically, what do you think that really means, they kind of sound a little less certain of that.

She said, yes, abortion is my absolute number one issue.

And so the reporter followed up and said, OK, so how about a federal ban?

She said, well, I don't know.

I could go either way on it, right?

So I heard this in focus groups too in 2022 of Republicans who said, I consider myself pro-life, but I think we should have certain exceptions.

So I think the issue is maybe a little more muddled.

And Donald Trump is feeling confident enough in that and his lead that even in a state like Iowa, he thinks it's not going to catch up to him.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kay, in Iowa, the Republican Party, as you well know, it's driven and dominated by white evangelicals, evangelicals who are loyal to Donald Trump.

The question is why, especially when they have other options, like Mike Pence, who's known for his devout faith, has his roots in the conservative Christian movement.

Was his decision not to back Donald Trump's effort to overturn the election, is that a deciding, a real deciding factor for people?

KAY HENDERSON: It is.

Donald Trump is popular with Iowa Republicans, and Mike Pence is not popular with Donald Trump.

And back to Amy's point about Trump, I think Iowa Republicans in general see Trump as a man besieged with indictments, with critics.

And so they feel compelled to support him, especially evangelical Christians, who make the argument that they are out there being tarnished or targeted because of their religious beliefs.

And so they feel a kinship with Donald Trump in that regard.

AMY WALTER: I mean, the interesting thing too in watching him try to make this pivot is, OK, we need to win back some of those suburban voters, those women voters, those swing voters that we have lost, say, since the midterm elections over the issue of abortion.

But the challenge for Donald Trump isn't so much abortion.

It's Donald Trump and the many things that he has said and done, starting with January 6 and the indictments.

That is not going to be fixed for him in a general election by moderating on abortion.

GEOFF BENNETT: Let's talk about impeachment.

KAY HENDERSON: Yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: I'm sorry, go ahead, Kay.

KAY HENDERSON: Well, the other thing is, if you're out here talking to Iowa voters who are going to candidate events and seeing candidates who aren't Donald Trump, they are looking at other candidates, but when you ask them, who are you inclined to support at this moment, well, I'm a Trump supporter, but I'm holding my options open.

So that's just really telling of what control Donald Trump has on the nomination.

And here in Iowa, it's really Donald Trump's race to lose.

GEOFF BENNETT: That's interesting.

Shifting our focus back here to Washington, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's decision to green-light this impeachment inquiry, it's drawing criticism from Democrats, obviously, but also some Republicans.

Ken Buck, who is a member, we should say, of the far right Freedom Caucus, he wrote an op-ed.

And he says that: "Trump's impeachment in 2019 was a disgrace to the Constitution and a disservice to Americans.

The GOP's reprise in 2023 is no better."

He says: "This is a flimsy excuse for impeachment."

What's the risk-reward matrix for Kevin McCarthy right now with this impeachment?

AMY WALTER: That's right.

So we know that his -- the risk is that he loses his conservative flank and -- on something like funding the government, which, by the way, it looks like he doesn't have right now anyway.

So this is going to be an ongoing fight.

I don't know that impeachment solves it.

The other risk is that those moderates -- Ken Buck doesn't fit into this category, but the moderate Republicans up this year have to take an uncomfortable vote on this issue.

But there's something else here, too, which is, somewhere in between, this is making this issue of Hunter Biden, questions about corruption, keeping that in the mix, and so that it muddies the water when we get into the general election.

Donald Trump has indictments and who knows what legal outcomes there will be.

And then there's also this, oh, well, there was all this stuff about Hunter Biden.

Whatever happened with that?

Now, it's hard to believe you can go through an inquiry and not end with an impeachment.

It's a very slippery slope.

But I think, for some of those Republicans, that is the ideal, is muddy the waters as much as possible without having to actually take a vote.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kay, is that strategy working among the Republicans you speak to in Iowa?

I mean, how is this issue resonating?

KAY HENDERSON: Well, among elected Republicans, the thing that they keep saying is, this is a fact-finding mission.

None of them say that at this point they're supporting impeachment or even expecting to vote on impeachment, number one.

Number two, among Iowa GOP prospective caucus-goers, this is just sort of, OK, go do it, because they have all been talking about Hunter Biden for months and months and months.

So this is not essentially big news for the rank and file.

GEOFF BENNETT: Kay Henderson, with a perspective for us this evening from Iowa, and Amy Walter, it's great to see you, as always.

Thank you both.

AMY WALTER: Thank you.

KAY HENDERSON: Great to be here.

Amna Nawaz The global art market totals nearly $70 billion, with returns in recent decades that outpace bonds.

By some estimates, that growth has found new investors looking to make some money in what's now a booming sector.

Economics correspondent Paul Solman takes a look at the prudence of investing in art for our arts and culture series Canvas.

Paul Solman The grand opening of RTX, a European art stock market, which plans to start trading soon, selling shares in art like this.

Francis Bacon One work at a time.

Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi We are the equivalent of Nasdaq.

We love the New York Stock Exchange or the London Stock Exchange.

Paul Solman Co-Founder and CEO Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi.

Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi Instead of buying a corporate share in a company, you buy a share into a masterpiece.

Paul Solman One of 550,000 shares in a triptych by the late English painter Francis Bacon of his lover George Dyer.

An IPO, a public offering with shares priced at $100 each.

And what do I get for that?

Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi You get the appreciation in exact way.

You get the appreciation if you're buying an ounce of gold.

Paul Solman What if Francis Bacon paintings are no longer popular.

Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi When you buy share in Apple at any time?

Are you sure they're not going to lose value?

Paul Solman Now Architects is the latest firm to sell shares in individual works of art, but not the first.

Kelly Crow In the past, collectors and dealers have often bought things in small consortiums.

Paul Solman Wall Street Journal art market correspondent Kelly Crow.

Kelly Crow The British Railway Pension did sort of pioneer this idea that you could pool your money and buy better things and hold it for a time and resell it.

Paul Solman So somebody can buy a share of this is a Warhol or a reproduction of a world that you own.

But nowadays, New York's masterworks already sells art shares to the public, as you would stocks.

Chief Investment Officer Allen Sukholitsky.

Allen Sukholitsky Masterworks is a firm that makes art and investable asset class.

The first firm that's ever done it, we started in 2017, so we've been doing it now for several years.

Paul Solman During which the firm's value has climbed to more than $1,000,000,000, it says.

Employees beating the bushes for marketable high value artwork and customers to whom to hawk shares in a masterwork like an Andy Warhol or a Yayoi Kusama.

Allen Sukholitsky I should actually about 100 years old, which is always interesting.

It tells you that artists have definitely cracked the code on living forever.

Paul Solman Apparently the usual minimum investment $15,000 for shares of an artwork whose price is derived from an auction database tracking 7000 artists post-World War Two.

Masterworks says it only buys blue chips.

Artists like Warhol and Kusama, whose values have outperformed the stock and bond markets for the past 20 years.

And Shea cause supposedly masterwork backed securities.

So does this pose a threat to traditional sellers like Auction house Christie's, whose Giacometti transmogrified into a dig?

I had me flummoxed until learning they were holograms to be digitally shipped to potential buyers.

Bonnie Brennan We really see it as an expansion of the market, and it's a it's an innovative way to to broaden our market.

Paul Solman President for American Art Bonnie Brennan.

Bonnie Brennan If this is a way to meet new clients all the better for us.

Paul Solman But better for everyone.

Well, as always, warns reporter Kelly Crowe.

Investor beware.

Kelly Crow The art market is just super unregulated.

It's kind of like a wild West.

And if you want to buy $100 share just for kicks in the same way that you would go to a baseball game just to have fun and see how something does roll the dice, have some fun.

I just I would be a little nervous.

You know, taking out a second mortgage.

Paul Solman Even for a painting is highly valued in the current market.

Is the Francis Bacon triptych.

Kelly Crow These George Dyer Triptychs that sold in 2017 for mid 50 million are important because that lover eventually committed suicide on the eve of a major show of break ins.

We really love the soap opera of an artist's life and how that feeds into the work.

Alex Glauber It's a word called hot pie, which simulates hot by sitting on on the kitchen window.

Cooling.

Paul Solman Yeah, I see.

That's the.

That's the.

That's the steam from the hot pot.

Exactly.

Contemporary art consultant Alex Glauber, who helped his client by this work by Alex de Court.

Glauber has sold two masterworks, so an art stock market is a good thing?

Alex Glauber Certainly brings more money and attention to the art market, but I don't know if it's necessarily healthy for art and the appreciation of art long term.

Paul Solman Why not?

Alex Glauber Why?

Because if the conversation is more about the money than the art that really devalues, it undermines the very purpose of art.

Paul Solman But the argument is, I'll start out with it as an investment.

Then I'll get interested in it and I'll learn more about it.

I'll become an art appreciator.

Alex Glauber But if what you're trying to learn about is why this is a savvy investment, why this artist is poised for an uptick in their value, that's very much at odds with what perhaps put that artist in that position in the first place.

Paul Solman In other words, we're talking speculation, as in some 1000 Picasso's and innumerable other brand name works stored in warehouses around the world.

Or more recently, speculation in digital and nfts non-fungible tokens that boomed and then swooned.

Since I interviewed investor Lin Dai barely a year ago.

Okay, so what's happened to the NFT market since last we talked?

Alex Glauber Yeah.

You know, there's a lot of have changed.

We saw this speculative bubble pop.

Paul Solman Which had seen Lin Di's bored ape nft double in value to $400,000 before falling back down to around $100,000 today, by his estimate.

You have second thoughts?

Misgivings about having bought your board ape?

No, absolutely.

Yassir Benjelloun-Touimi Not.

I think certainly the board probably well hold its value over time.

Paul Solman Unlike, say, Yosef, Israel's pancake day, which fetched more than £1,000,000 in 1895.

A billion or more dollars today, depending on how you convert prices.

Israel's largest painting at auction in recent years brought $35,000.

Just one of countless examples that illustrate what philosopher Barbara Herrnstein Smith calls the contingencies of value.

Barbara Herrnstein Smith Value is not fixed, inherent objective and part of objects, but the product of numerous interactions between.

People and things in their universe.

It's contingent in the sense that what effects those interactions changes.

The question is always going to be will it continue to be valued over time?

Not will it continue to have value over time?

Paul Solman And thus for the investment value of art, we've learned to prize from Leonardo and Rembrandt to Israel's Van Gogh and Picasso.

Bacon.

Warhol.

Kusama aboard eight.

Time will tell if we fickle mortals, will continue valuing them as we do today.

For the PBS NewsHour, Paul Solman, mostly in New York.

GEOFF BENNETT: And that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of our entire "NewsHour" team, thank you for joining us.