AMNA NAWAZ: Well, also on Capitol Hill today, the House subcommittee that bears a slightly different name, but the same acronym as Elon Musk's agency, DOGE, held its first hearing.

GEOFF BENNETT: While members from both parties say they were focused on rooting out waste and fraud, Democrats were quick to point out that Musk did not appear before the committee.

REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-NM): Directly to Mr. Elon Musk, we are well aware that you are eager to engage with members of Congress on social media, but we're not here to play.

If you have serious desire to engage in democracy and transparency, we welcome you to the Oversight Committee.

Come and testify in front of the American people under oath, because we want to know what you're up to.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, Republicans took aim at their colleagues across the aisle.

REP. BRANDON GILL (R-TX): If we have learned anything so far, it's that Republicans want to cut waste, fraud and abuse from our federal government and save taxpayer dollars, and Democrats want to grandstand and play politics.

AMNA NAWAZ: For some more perspective on this, we turn now to David Walker.

Between 1998 and 2008, he headed the U.S. Government Accountability Office that investigates federal spending.

David, welcome to the "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

DAVID WALKER, Former United States Comptroller General: Good to be with you, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: So I think it's fair to say you would be hard-pressed to find someone who says there's absolutely no waste or fraud in government spending.

But when you look at what DOGE is doing and how they're doing the job so far, do you think that they're targeting the waste and fraud that you think they should be?

DAVID WALKER: Well, what they're doing is, they're really doing a review of information systems and transactions.

They're not doing an audit.

And they're identifying areas that could be fraud, waste, abuse, or mismanagement.

In most cases, it's arguably waste and mismanagement, rather than necessarily illegal or fraudulent activity.

And what they're demonstrating is that the federal government has thousands of outdated, non-integrated information systems and totally inadequate controls.

And that's one of the reasons that you're seeing some of these sensational items pop up.

AMNA NAWAZ: And what about the way in which they're going about this?

It's sort of more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel approach.

We have seen entire agencies like USAID essentially shut down.

They're wholesale slashing programs and other agencies.

Over 8,700 federal workers, The New York Times reports, have now been put on leave.

Is that the right approach, in your view?

And are they making a dent in what they have done so far?

DAVID WALKER: Well, I think that they need to be much more transparent about their targeting, about what they're doing, who's doing it, what type of background checks, what type of clearances that they have been given.

In the case of USAID, I'm not sure what basis they came up with to go from thousands of employees down to about 300.

And I think that there needs to be much more transparency with regard to the criteria that they're using as to how they're getting to some of those numbers as well.

AMNA NAWAZ: Where else would you want to see them point their efforts?

In your experience, where are some of those big-ticket items when it comes to waste and fraud?

DAVID WALKER: Health care is number one.

There's also a lot of problems with regard to certain payments, in particular with regard to our COVID payments that were made.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a trillion dollars of, frankly, fraud and abuse with regard to that item.

Taxes, we have a lot of situations where there's a lot of improper activity that goes on with regard to our tax system, and also contracting activities.

So those are some of the areas that I think are the most fruitful.

AMNA NAWAZ: Contracting, you mean specific to, like, the Department of Defense, for example?

DAVID WALKER: Well, that would be one of the big contracting agencies.

There are a lot of agencies that engage in contracting, but Defense is one of the biggest, for sure.

AMNA NAWAZ: You know, they also say, the DOGE team and the administration, that they're doing work that the existing bodies have not been doing, the Government Accountability Office, for example.

But for the Trump administration to then fire a number of inspectors general who would also arguably be doing this same work, do you think that hurts or helps their mission?

DAVID WALKER: Well, first, the inspectors general are supposed to be on the front line of fighting fraud, waste, abuse and mismanagement.

That's not the GAO's job.

That's the inspector generals' job.

And I -- and whoever advised the president to be able to fire all those inspectors general in wholesale and without proper notification to Congress didn't do the country a favor or the president a favor.

It was inappropriate.

It was illegal.

And, frankly, GAO and the inspector general should be working in partnership with DOGE.

I mean, they have done a tremendous amount of work with regard to improper payments, with regard to duplication, overlap and redundancy in the federal government that could be very helpful to DOGE, but I'm not sure DOGE is reaching out to them.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, when you look at the overall mission here to cut spending, it clearly has a lot of support.

But, effectively, what you have is a private unelected billionaire with numerous potential conflicts of interest here in Elon Musk who has extraordinary access and power to government systems and decision-making here, in some case, usurping even congressional authority, right,talking about halting congressionally appropriated funds in some cases.

When you look at the way in which they're going about their work, does the end justify these means?

DAVID WALKER: What they're doing needs to be done, but, as I said before, they need to be much more transparent with regard to what they're doing, how they're doing it, who's doing it, and what type of background checks and conflict of interest checks these people have been subject to.

I think, if that ends up happening, it'll improve their effectiveness, it'll improve their credibility, and it'll enhance public trust.

But understand this.

DOGE is just the first step in a multistep process.

DOGE can help making a modest down payment in our deficit situation.

But we're spending $5.5 billion a day more than we're taking in.

And, ultimately, the heavy lifting, the real big changes are going to have to be done through legislation and a constitutional amendment.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is David Walker, former head of the U.S. Government Accountability Office.

David, thank you.

Really appreciate your time.

DAVID WALKER: My pleasure.