>>> NOW, IN PARIS TODAY, MORE SIGNS OF TENSION BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND KYIV, AS UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAYS AMERICA KEEPS CHANGING THE TERMS OF THE EXTENT OF A POTENTIAL MINERALS DEAL IT WANTS.

ITS SYMPTOMATIC OF A WIDER TRENLD, AS ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES ALIKE FACE A MERCURIAL ADMINISTRATION.

BEIJING HAS ACCUSED THE U. S. OF VIOLATING WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION RULES AFTER TRUMP ANNOUNCED 25% TARIFFS ON CARS AND AUTO PARTS IMPORTED FROM ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

IN BEIJING, THE FOREIGN MINISTER SPOKESMAN SAID THERE ARE NO WINNERS IN A TRADE WAR OR A TARIFF WAR, AND HE CALLED THIS ACTION UNHELPFUL.

JESSICA CHEN WHITE HOUSE EISS IS PROFESSOR AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, AND SHE SPOKE WITH ARI ON HOW CHINA IS TRYING TO MANAGE THE UNPREDICTABLE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANK YOU.

JESSICA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

JUST RECENTLY, WE HAD THE CHINESE DEVELOPMENT FORUM, WHERE CHINA GETS TO INVITE FOREIGN COMPANIES FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND SAY, WE'RE OPEN FOR BUSINESS.

AND I WONDER, IN LIGHT OF WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN THE PAST MONTH OR TWO, IS IT OPEN FOR BUSINESS AS USUAL, OR -- WHAT ARE THE KIND OF CHANGES THAT THE CHINESE ARE TRYING TO LURE THE WORLD WITH?

>> WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH, IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

THE CHINESE ARE NERVOUS, AS WELL, ABOUT ALL THAT'S UNDER WAY, WITH THE, YOU KNOW, ON AND OFF AGAIN TARIFFS AND THE CHANGES IN U.S. FOREIGN POLICY, AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF ECONOMIC CHALLENGES AT HOME, AND SO, THE CHINA DEVELOPMENT FORUM IS THEIR ANNUAL EFFORT TO SIGNAL AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT CHINA IS, AS YOU SAID, OPEN FOR BUSINESS.

BUT THEY HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO IN TERMS OF REASSURING FOREIGN INVESTORS THAT CHINA PLANS TO KIND OF LIVE UP TO ITS PROMISES TO BE THE DEFENDER OF GLOBALIZATION AND NOT TO FOLLOW THE PATH OF KIND OF UNILATERALISM THAT THEY'VE CRITICIZED SO MUCH IN U.S. POLICY RECENTLY.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY CHINA SEES SOME BENEFIT FROM THE U.S. MAKING IT ALL SEEM LIKE AN UNRELIABLE PARTNER, PARTICULARLY IN EUROPE, BUT THEY'RE QUITE NERVOUS, AS WELL.

CHINA'S BENEFITED A LOT FROM GLOBALIZATION, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT TARIFFS GO UP AROUND THE WORLD, THIS COULD COME, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT COST TO CHINESE GROWTH, WHICH, YOU KNOW, REMAINS VERY HEAVILY DEPARTMENT ON ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF THE CHALLENGES AT HOME.

>> SO MUCH OF THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHINA?

>> I CERTAINLY THINK CHINA HAS BEEN TRYING TO BUILD AL PARTNERSHIPS AS A WAY TO PROVIDE SOME INSULATION FROM WHAT IT SAW AS KIND OF U.S. -LED CONTAINMENT AND SANCTIONS.

TO THE EXTENT THAT THE U.S. IS NO LONGER AN ECONOMIC PARTNER, CHINA STANDS TO BENEFIT.

BUT THE SAME TIME, A LOSS FOR THE UNITED STATES ISN'T NECESSARILY A WIN FOR CHINA.

I DON'T THINK CHINA IS GOING TO FILL THE VOID THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS LEFT IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY IN GLOBAL HEALTH.

>> SO, IN GLOBAL HEALTH, IF WE STOP VACCINE DISTRIBUTIONS, CHINA DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO STAND UP THE EQUIVALENT OF USAID, RIGHT?

>> EXACTLY.

CHINA'S NOT CAPABLE AND NOT PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN MAKING THOSE KINDS OF INVESTMENTS.

WHICH, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOSS FOR THE WORLD.

THAT --AND AMERICANS, TOO, BECAUSE I THINK THE EARLY DETECTION AND CONTAINMENT OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES, YOU KNOW, LIKE EBOLA, YOU KNOW, HAS BENEFITED MANY AMERICANS, AND I THINK THE GREATER RISK HERE IS NOT THAT CHINA STEPS UP AND FILLS THE VOID, INSTEAD, THE DISINTEGRATION OF MANY OF THE INTERNATIONAL EFFORTS THAT HAD ONCE, I THINK, KEPT MANY OF THESE DISEASES AT BAY.

>> IS THERE SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT TRUMP 1.0 VERSUS 2.0 IN TERMS OF NOT JUST THE POSITION SURING, BUT THE POLICIES THEY'RE LAYING OUT?

BECAUSE WE SAW TARIFFS AGAINST CHINA IN THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

IS THERE SOMETHING DIFFERENT NOW, IS IT THE --JUST LEVEL OF UNCERTAINTY?

>> I THINK THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE ALREADY OUT OF THE GATE BETWEEN THE TWO TRUMP ADMINISTRATIONS.

I THINK THAT EVERYBODY EXPECTED THAT THESE TARIFFS WOULD BE USED AS LEVERAGE AGAINST --AGAINST CHINA, POTENTIALLY, TO EXTRACT BETTER TERMS, MAYBE GET THEM TO LIVE UP TO THEIR END OF THE FIRST, YOU KNOW, TRADE DEAL.

BUT INSTEAD, WE'RE SEEING MUCH MORE PRIORITY, ACTUALLY, ON U. S. ALLIES AND PARTNERS, CANADA, MEXICO, AND WE'RE ALSO SEEING, YOU KNOW, NEW RHETORIC ABOUT THE DESIRE, YOU KNOW, TO TAKE GREENLAND, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

CALLING INTO QUESTION, REALLY, I THINK, SOME OF THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF, YOU KNOW, NORMS AGAINST TERRITORIAL AGGRESSION AND EXPANSION, THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN, I THINK, IMPORTANT TO HOLDING YOU YOU KNOW, EVEN AUTHORITARIAN POWERS LIKE CHINA AND RUSSIA IN CHECK.

SO, THAT'S A REALLY BIG DEPARTURE.

AND MANY AMERICAN ALLIES, ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE, AND IN CANADA NA DA, ARE NOW LOOKING TO THE UNITED STATES, WONDERING IF THEIR GREATEST THREAT IS NOT AT ALL CHINA, BUT THE UNITED STATES, INSTEAD, AND SO --A BIG PART OF, I THINK, AMERICAN STRENGTH IS RUN THROUGH OUR ALLIANCES AND PARTNERSHIPS, AND THOSE ARE VERY MUCH, I THINK, BEING CALLED INTO QUESTION.

>> I WONDER WHAT THE LESSONS ARE THAT CHINA TAKES AS THE UNITED STATES POSTURE IS MUCH CLOSER TO RUSSIA, IN LIGHT OF UKRAINE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SAYING, YOU KNOW, HOW THE UNITED STATES DEALS WITH UKRAINE IS GOING TO BE A SIGNAL FOR CHINA ON WHAT IT COULD DO WITH TAIWAN.

>> I THINK CHINA'S QUITE NERVOUS ABOUT THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA, BUT I ALSO DON'T THINK THEY THINK IT CAN GO THAT FAR, AND CERTAINLY, THE - -I THINK XI AND PUTIN HAVE TAKEN PAINS TO REASSURE ONE ANOTHER THAT THEIR PARTNERSHIP ISN'T DRIVEN BY THESE EXTERNAL FACTORS, AND IT REMAINS STRONG.

BUT I THINK THAT THE --CHINA SEES BENEFITS AND RISKS.

ON THE ONE HAND, THE UNITED STATES IS, I THINK, UNDERMINING MANY OF ITS KEY STRENGTHS, NOT ONLY IN THE ALLIES AND PARTNERS, BUT ALSO, I THINK, THE DOMESTIC BASIS OF, YOU KNOW, CHINA --SORRY, THE DOMESTIC BAY VICE OF AMERICAN KIND OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY LEADERSHIP, SO, WE'RE WITNESSING A KIND OF BRAIN DRAIN THAT CHINA AND EUROPE IS BENEFITING FROM, FRANCE, OTHERS ARE LURING AMERICAN SCIENTISTS WHO SEE A DEAD END FOR THEIR CAREERS HERE NOW, IN THE NEW CLIMATE.

BUT THEY ALSO, I THINK, IN CHINA SEE RISKS, YOU KNOW, THAT AGAIN, CHINA'S IN A REALLY DIFFICULT DOMESTIC POSITION NOW, AND THEY'VE BEEN TRYING OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO STABILIZE THEIR --THE KIND OF EXTERNAL ENVIRONMENT, YOU KNOW, NOT SHYING AWAY FROM PUNCHING BACK, BUT NONETHELESS, NOT LOOKING TO PROVOKE ESCALATION OR CONFLICT, SO, I DON'T SEE THEM NECESSARILY CROWING THAT LOUDLY, THOUGH THEY'RE CERTAINLY HAPPY TO POINT OUT TO AMERICAN ALLIES AND PARTNERS JUST HOW UNRELIABLE THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN OF LATE AND THAT CHINA, YOU KNOW, CONTINUES TO PORTRAY ITSELF AS THE DEFENDER OF THE STATUS QUO IN CONTRAST TO THE UNITED STATES.

>> I WONDER IF THE WORK THAT CHINA HAS BEEN DOING ACROSS WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER THE GLOBAL SOUTH, THE PARTNERSHIP S WITH THE BELT AND ROAD INITIATIVE, THE INVESTMENTS IN, YOU KNOW, EVEN IN, SAY, INDIA, PAKISTAN, SORT OF DIFFERENT REGIONS, ARE PAYING OFF NOW, IF THAT'S AS GOOD A HEDGE AS YOU NEED.

>> I THINK THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY EFFECTIVE AS A HEDGE.

CHINA HAS, SINCE THE FIRST TRADE WAR, REALLY TRIED TO DIVERSIFY AWAY FROM THE UNITED STATES TOWARD WHAT WE CALL SOUTH RELATIONSHIPS.

AND THE TRADE HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY IMPORTANT TO CHINA, AND I THINK PROVIDES REAL KIND OF INSURANCE FOR CHINESE BUSINESSES SEEKING ACCESS TO MARKETS, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, RAW INPUTS.

AND IT MEANS THAT WHEN THE UNITED STATES, YOU KNOW, RAISES TARIFFS AGAINST CHINA AND CHINA RETALIATES, AND AS THE UNITED STATES, YOU KNOW, TAKES ON MANY OF ITS TOP TRADING PARTNERS, YOU KNOW, WITH GREATER TARIFFS, THE RISK OF THE UNITED STATES ACTUALLY ISOLATES ITSELF FROM THE WORLD, AND THAT CHINA CONTINUES, YOU KNOW, TO, YOU KNOW, COURT THOSE WHO ARE, I THINK, WARY OF THE ELEMENT OF CHAOS THAT THE UNITED STATES IS INTRODUCING INTO THE GLOBAL TRADING SYSTEM.

>> THERE ARE DISCUSSIONS RIGHT NOW ABOUT A GOLD PASS THAT WOULD OFFER BASICALLY CITIZENSHIP IN THE UNITED STATES FOR ABOUT $5 MILLION.

AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE COMMERCE SECRETARY EXPECT TO SELL A MILLION OF THESE, AND THEY SAID, LOOK THE NUMBER OF CHINESE BUSINESSMEN OR PEOPLE THAT COULD COME OVER WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

IS THAT GIVEN KIND OF WHERE THE TENSIONS ARE RIGHT NOW?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE CHINESE BILLIONAIRES WANT TO HAVE IN THEIR SIDE POCKET, IS JUST AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEAVE CHINA AND GO TO THE UNITED STATES?

OR DO THEY SEE KIND OF BOTH AS UNSTABLE OR UNPREDICTABLE?

>> I THINK THAT THERE ARE A HUGE NUMBER OF CHINESE THAT WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THEIR, YOU KNOW, THEIR INVESTMENTS AND ASSETS ELSEWHERE, WHERE THEY FEEL SAFER, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT, THE UNITED STATES FEELS LIKE THE SAFEST OF HAVENS.

WHICH IS REALLY A MISSED OPPORTUNITY, AND IF ANYTHING, I THINK --AT LEAST IN THE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY DOMAIN, WE ARE SEEING A REVERSAL, WHERE CHINESE SCIENTISTS WHO ONCE CONTRIBUTED THEIR EFFORTS TO INNOVATION HERE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE BEING RECRUITED BACK TO CHINA.

SO, THIS IS A REAL OWN GOAL FOR THE UNITED STATES, AND IF THE GOLD CARD OR OTHER MECHANISMS, THEY COULD BE STRENGTHENED.

I THINK THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY HERE TO BRING CHINESE AND OTHERS WITH A LOT OF TALENT AND AS SETS TO INVEST IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT'S ONE THING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HIMSELF HAS BEEN OPEN TO, EVEN THOUGH ASPECTS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION DOCUMENTS SUGGESTING, YOU KNOW, HIGHER DEGREE OF SCRUTINY OF CHINESE INVESTMENT, BUT ON TELEVISION, PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID, ACTUALLY, WE WELCOME CHINESE MONEY TO BRING JOBS HERE.

SO, I THINK THAT'S STILL VERY MUCH AN OPEN QUESTION IF THIS WILL GO IN THE DIRECTION OF BEING MORE WELCOMING OR MORE CLOSED.

>> SO, WHAT DOES THAT DO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TOUCHED ON INNOVATION THERE, IF CHINESE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE EITHER BEING LURED BACK OR FOR THEIR OWN REASONS, THEY DECIDE, YOU KNOW, I -- I CAN MAKE A PRETTY GOOD LIVING IN CHINA, THERE ARE SOME FANTASTIC TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES, THERE'S SCIENCE COMPANIES THAT WANT TO HIRE ME THERE.

>> THIS, IN SOME WAYS, IS LIKE HISTORY POTENTIALLY REPEATING ITSELF IN THE EARLY DAYS OF THE COLD WAR, CHINESE ROCKET SCIENTIST WHO HELPED FOUNDING THAT IN THE UNITED STATES THEN COULDN'T, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO BE EMPLOYED HERE, WENT BACK TO CHINA AND FOUNDED THEIR KIND OF ROCKET PROGRAM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, TODAY, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE WORLD LEADERS.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A CHALLENGE BOTH IN NUMBERS AND IN TERMS OF THE QUALITY OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE LEAVING.

AND REALLY, THIS HAS TO DO WITH SCIENTIFIC INVESTMENT --FEDERAL INVESTMENT IN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, WHERE CHINA IS SPENDING A MAGNITUDE MORE IN THIS AREA THAT THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS GOING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, AND CUTS TO THE --WHETHER IT'S THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION, THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, THE ATTACKS ON UNIVERSITIES, THE OVERHEAD AND QUESTIONS AROUND HOW MUCH LONGER UNIVERSITIES CAN CONTINUE TO BE WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN, WHICH IS REALLY THE ENVY OF THE WORLD AND THE MAGNET FOR INTERNATIONAL TALENT.

THIS IS ALL, I THINK, GOING VERY MUCH POTENTIALLY IN THE WRONG DIRECTION TO THE BENEFIT OF CHINA OR, YOU KNOW, OTHER COUNTRIES, I MENTIONED, IN EUROPE, THAT ARE ALREADY PUTTING TOGETHER PROGRAMS TO ATTRACT THE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE FEARING FOR THEIR CAREERS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> IS CHINA USING THIS OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO ELEVATE ITS POSITION ON THE WORLD STAGE FROM KIND OF JUST A FOREIGN OR MILITARY MIGHT?

>> SO, CHINA CERTAINLY, I THINK WANTS TO PLAY A GREATER ROLE IN LEADING, BUT WHAT THAT LEADERSHIP LOOKS LIKE, I THINK, IS VERY MUCH A WORK IN PROGRESS.

SO FAR, THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY OPPORTUNISTIC, AND SYMBOLIC IN THE WAYS THEY HOPE TO LEAD.

BEING ABLE TO SET THE TABLE FOR DIPLOMATIC DISCUSSIONS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY PLAYING A DRIVING ROLE IN KIND OF TWISTING ARMS TO BRING WARRING PARTIES TO THE TABLE.

I THINK THAT THEIR ASPIRATIONS FOR TAIWAN REALLY HAVEN'T CHANGED, BUT ALTHOUGH MANY PEOPLE THINK THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF IMPATIENCE, GIVEN CHINA'S GROWING CAPABILITIES.

BUT ALSO, I THINK GIVEN TRENDS ON THE ISLAND AND IN THE U.S.

RELATIONSHIP, UNOFFICIAL RELATIONSHIP WITH TAIWAN, HAVE ALSO, I THINK, PROVOKED A DEGREE OF CONCERN AND EVEN PESSIMISM ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT SITUATION IS UNRAVELING.

AND SO, I DON'T SEE, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A PRECIPITOUS MOVE HERE.

I THINK CHINA'S ACTUALLY BEEN KIND OF WANTING TO, AGAIN, ESTABLISH ITSELF AS A LEGITIMATE AND CENTRAL PLAYER ON THE WORLD STAGE, NOT BE KIND OF RELEGATED TO THE MARGINS, CERTAINLY THE CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY DOESN'T WANT DEMOCRACY TO BE SEEN AS THE INEVITABLE TRAJECTORY OF COUNTRIES ARD OUND THE WORLD, THAT'S VERY MUCH THREATENING TO THE CONTINUATION OF THEIR ROLE.

SO, AS KIND OF ONE OF THE REMAINING COMMUNIST PARTIES IN THE WORLD THAT'S IN A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP, CHINA'S VERY CONCERNED ABOUT GOING THAT WAY.

SO, I THINK A LOT OF THE EFFORT THEY'VE MADE TO STEP UP ON THE WORLD STAGE IS TO BE SEEN AS CENTRAL, RATHER THAN PERIPHERAL.

BUT AGAIN, HOW MUCH HAVE THEY BEEN WILLING TO INVEST IN SHOWING THAT CHINA IS A COUNTRY THAT CAN BE RELIED UPON OR TURNED TO IN TIMES OF CRISIS?

THEY'VE BEEN MUCH MORE SELECT IFL AND SELECTIVE IN THEIR OBJECTIVES OF TAKING, OR QUOTE UNQUOTE, REUNIFYING WITH TAIWAN.

I DON'T SEE THAT BEING PRECIPITOUSLY CHANGED BY CHANGES IN THE UNITED STATES, SO LONG AS U.S. POLICY TOWARD TAIWAN AND CHINA REMAINS ON A MORE OR LESS EVEN KEEL.

SO FAR, THE PRESIDENT HAS, YOU KNOW, DECLINED TO CHANGE U.S. POLICY TOWARD TAIWAN.

WHICH I THINK IS --IS WISE.

BUT WE SHALL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DAYS AND MONTHS TO COME.

>> ONE OF THE STORIES IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS HAS BEEN THE UNITED STATES DECIDING TO CUT OFF, YOU KNOW, RADIO FREE LIBERTY, RADIO FREE ASIA, EUROPE, AND SO FORTH, VOICE OF AMERICA AND SORT OF OTHER NETWORKS.

IS THAT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CHINA?

>> I CERTAINLY THINK THAT IT REDUCES THE SET OF VIEWS THAT PEOPLE IN SOUTHEAST ASIA AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD HEAR.

I THINK THAT THE BIGGER, YOU KNOW, EFFECT, THOUGH, YOU KNOW, IS TO REDUCE THE SENSE THAT THE UNITED STATES IS, YOU KNOW, CHAMPIONING SORT OF THE CAUSE OF DEMOCRACY AGAINST CHINA AND THE SUPPORT THAT USAID AND THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT OF DEMOCRACY HAVE PLAYED AND SUPPORTING GROUPS THAT WERE CRITICAL OF CHINA, HOLDING IT TO ACCOUNT.

SOME OF THIS IS REASSURING TO CHINA, AND SOME IN WAYS, CONTINUES A TREND OF AMERICAN, YOU KNOW, LEADERS REALIZING THAT WE HAVE A LIMITED ABILITY TO SHAPE THE TRAJECTORY OF CHINA'S DOMESTIC POLITICAL SYSTEM, BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, A REALLY SUDDEN CHANGE, I THINK, THAT MANY ARE STILL, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONING, YOU KNOW, HOW --HOW THIS WILL ALL PLAY OUT.

I MEAN, I THINK CHINESE PROPAGANDA IS NOT NECESSARILY BEEN ALL THAT EFFECTIVE ITSELF.

AND ONE HAS TO WONDER ABOUT ALL OF THESE, YOU KNOW, STATE- FUNDED EFFORTS, I THINK, MUCH MORE IMPORTANT WOULD BE A KIND OF ROBUST AND VIBRANT NEWS MEDIA, INDEPENDENT NEWS MEDIA, THAT IS NOT FUNDED BY GOVERNMENTS, AND SO --WE'LL HAVE TO WATCH THAT SPACE.

>> ARE THERE CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THE PRESIDENT CREATES THIS ATMOSPHERE?

MAYBE IT'S HAWKISHNESS OR AGGRESSION TOWARDS CHINA, AND WHAT THE RIPPLE EFFECTS ARE IN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY TO CIVIL LIBERTIES?

I'M THINKING PARTICULARLY, YOU KNOW, IN THE WAKE OF THE PANDEMIC, STATEMENT AFTER STATEMENT THAT CAME OUT OF THE PRESIDENT'S MOUTH, REALLY, AND THEN WE SAW A MASSIVE INCREASE IN ANTI-ASIAN HATE CRIMES FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

WHAT ARE --WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS OF THE WAYS THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION FRAMES OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA?

>> I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU RAISED THE QUESTION OF RHETORIC AND THE ATTACKS ON, YOU KNOW, ASIAN AMERICANS, BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT WAS A REALLY BIG SEA CHANGE AFTER THE PANDEMIC, AND TO SOME EXTENT, I THINK WE'RE STILL LIVING IN THAT WORLD, EVEN THOUGH THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF HAS ACTUALLY PIVOTED IN TERMS OF HIS RHETORIC, TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WANTING A CON STRUCK TY AND POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH XI JINPING, SAYING A FAIR NUMBER OF NICE THINGS ABOUT HIM, BUT I THINK THAT IS TONE THAT EARLIER PERIOD SET STILL REMAINS VERY MUCH ALIVE ON CAPITOL HILL.

WE HAVE BILLS, YOU KNOW, SUGGESTING THE, YOU KNOW, EXPULSION OF CHINESE STUDENTS FROM THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE LEGISLATION THAT WOULD REALLY TREAT ALL, YOU KNOW, CHINESE INVESTMENT OR COMMERCE AS POTENTIALLY SUSPECT, ESPECIALLY ACADEMIC EXCHANGE.

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS REALLY DANIEL DAMAGING, BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES HAS REALLY THRIVED ON BEING A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES AND FROM DIFFERENT COUNTRIES CAN --CAN ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE, AND IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE AN OPEN ECONOMY, AND I THINK THE MORE THAT WE MOVE TO A CLOSED ONE, THE MORE THAT, YOU KNOW, COMPANIES OF ALL NATIONALITIES WONDER ABOUT COMING AND INVESTING IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND IT'S NOT JUST EVEN, I THINK, EFFECTING ASIAN AMERICANS NOW.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TOURISM TO THE UNITED STATES IS DOWN, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BEING TURNED AWAY AT THE BORDER OR HARASSED THAT AREN'T OF ASIAN EXTRACTION, AND SO, I THINK THIS IS ALL VERY MUCH CALLING INTO QUESTION THE FUTURE OF THE UNITED STATES AS A --AS AN OPEN AND WELCOMING SOCIETY, WHICH HAS REALLY FUELED, I THINK, OUR LEADERSHIP FOR SO MANY DECADES.

>> JESSICA CHEN WEISS, DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE FOR AMERICA, CHINA, AND THE FUTURE OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.