♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> Karen Boykin-Towns, the vice chair of the NAACP, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

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♪♪ ♪♪ >> We are most honored to have the vice chair of the NAACP and the chair of the NAACP Image Awards with us today.

Karen Boykin-Towns, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> It is wonderful to finally be here.

Thank you so much for having me.

>> Tell us something first, Karen, about your social location, your upbringing, your family.

Where are you originally from?

>> I'm a Harlem girl.

Born and raised in New York.

I -- my mom is from Alabama.

My dad was from South Carolina.

And so, like so many during that time, she came, you know, north to seek better opportunities -- started out as a domestic, and then was with the local union 1199 for almost 50 years.

>> So your mother was a labor person?

>> Yes.

And my father.

He was a union organizer for Local 1199.

>> So you come out of an organizing family.

>> Absolutely.

You probably knew my godmother, Doris Turner -- Doris Turner Keys -- when she was the president of 1199.

So labor is, you know, at the root of my upbringing, for sure.

>> And of course, historically, labor has been one of the strongest supporters of the NAACP.

>> Absolutely.

That and the faith community.

>> Exactly.

So tell us, when did you first get involved with the NAACP?

>> You know, it's so funny because a lot of people, they start -- you know, they're born into the NAACP.

That's not my story.

I joined in probably like 1997, in the late '90s, when I had entered into corporate America.

And, you know, I was just -- I was on the National Health Committee.

>> 'Cause you were an executive at Pfizer at one time?

>> Yeah, for 22 years.

>> 22 years at Pfizer?

>> 22 years.

22 years.

So, you know, just was a normal person doing, you know, a few things, never, ever expecting that I would be given the honor of being on the board and never, you know, to serve as one of the officers.

But, you know, it's -- what's that adage?

You know, people who they see doing work and kind of getting it done, you give them more work, and so that's how I've evolved over about 17 years.

I joined the board in -- or, elected to the board in twenty -- 2006.

2006.

>> Can you just talk about, for a moment, since you are an African-American woman leader now of the NAACP, the role of Black women in civil rights, broadly speaking?

>> Yeah.

You know -- And you know this well.

At the end of the day, Black women are the backbone of our institutions.

Certainly may not always be out front but definitely dictating.

But the great news, I think, is that more and more now, we are coming to the forefront and we are seen as the leaders that we are.

We're not just in the background, but we are stepping up and really leading and having impact in that leadership.

>> Do you envision sometime in the future that the NAACP will have a Black woman as its chief executive officer?

>> When you talk about might there one day be a Black woman as our chief executive officer, I would not be surprised that that would be the case at the time when, you know, we have, you know, opportunity for that.

But we are very happy with our president right now.

And just, you know, as he continues to, you know, ensure that our legacy really remains strong and that we are meeting the moment not just nationally but also with our units around the country.

>> Right.

And you mentioned earlier about some of the units around the country that are, in fact, led by Black women.

>> Oh, yeah, absolutely.

You know, I was the president of the Brooklyn NAACP and -- >> Which was one of the largest.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that's led by a Black woman, L. Joy Williams, We are going to Boston, as we talked earlier, for our convention, and that's led by a Black woman, Tanisha Sullivan.

Black women have always been leaders within the NAACP.

And an interesting note -- President Johnson's Leadership Council, those who report into him, are all Black women -- or, women of color.

>> The current leadership, with Derrick Johnson and you, you both come to positions from within the existing board.

Talk to us about that 64 board member.

Powerful.

That's a very large board but a very talented board.

>> Yeah.

I mean, the organization celebrates 114 years this year.

It's just astonishing for us to continue to do the work.

Certainly, we are led by our chairman of the board, Leon W. Russell, who you know very, very well... >> Yes, yes.

>> ...and with President Johnson, who grew up in the organization.

His entire adult life, he has been a part of the organization, not as an executive, as a staffer, but when he was at Tougaloo College in leadership, and then the president of our Mississippi State Conference.

Same with Chairman Russell.

>> Yes.

He was chair of the Florida Conference.

>> Yeah, he was president of the Florida State Conference.

And I think he has had just about every role in the Florida State Conference.

And he was -- he's had many, many roles on the national board, as well, ascending to chair -- five years in now.

So it's a -- it's a team of people who, first and foremost, is about, you know, elevating the organization, making sure that we are transformational and making sure we're able to be an organization for the 21st century.

While we have a historic past, of which you're a part of that -- what is that saying?

-- "What got you here won't keep you there"?

>> That's right.

>> And so having to evolve and make those changes to kind of bring in the new leaders and talent because we are only as good as our people that are out in the communities, you know, fighting the good fight.

>> When people hear the term civil rights, they think nostalgic.

>> Yes.

>> But it seems to me, under Derrick Johnson, Chairman Russell, and your leadership, you've really innovated how we go out and secure civil rights in America today.

>> Yeah.

I mean, we have a 64-member board of directors, which sounds kind of large, but we call it -- it's a representative body because we have our regions represented.

We have -- We're the only organization that has seven youth members that are elected, and they sit side by side with us, and they have just as much say as anyone else.

And so it's a representative body that, at the end of the day, must stay relevant.

You know, some of the issues definitely seem like the issues that we thought we had won and had moved away.

But ultimately we have the tried and true tactics.

But in this age of digital, how do you use digital to really mobilize and educate and activate and, you know, just finding the different talents and contributions that everyone -- and honing those and using those, deploying them, leveraging them so that we can move forward?

Because that's what it's about -- moving forward.

>> Yes, that's a very good segue to talk about millennials and generation Z.

We live in this digital age, and they certainly communicate digitally.

So tell us, what has been the response -- the call and response -- of young people to the call and to the mission and the opportunity of the NAACP today?

>> Yeah.

Well, as you know, as one of our past presidents, we have, you know, a Youth & College division, and that -- and that is led by the youth of the association.

As I said, seven board members.

And they are some of the most dynamic, talented young people.

And they only stay on until they're 25, and then they can get elected as an adult member.

But many times, they flourish, and they come back, and they're involved locally.

But I think that what we know is that young people want to be heard.

You can't tell them what the strategy is going to be and tell them where they need to do -- what -- where they need to go.

They need to be part of the development.

And I think that what makes the NAACP unique is that it is intergenerational, and it's one where youth are at the table, and it's our job to ensure that they are heard, that they are empowered because, ultimately, as they talk to their peers, they are the one that can get them to understand why it is important versus, you know, some of us older ones kind of being out there.

But it's really beautiful to see, and I am so in awe of them.

>> How did you get involved with the Image Awards?

>> It's funny.

The chairman just asked me after our 50th show, where we didn't have a network.

You know, after the 50th show, our contract with TV One ended.

Our reputation was not really the best in Hollywood, and he asked me if I would take it on.

And I was like...

"Okay."

But, you know, it's been really -- Like with the organization itself, it's really been a transformation.

And it's really about looking to see how you can be more innovative, the things that you can bring to sort of have better connections.

And so we are really, really proud that, you know, the last four years has really been a turnaround.

>> Yes.

So you're on BET now.

>> We're on BET.

And with our new contract, we will also be on CBS.

We were on CBS this past year, but it was one of these things that, you know, we were on in 2020, we weren't on 2021.

But this year, we were on.

And in our new contract, it's BET and CBS.

And the other thing is, we appear on the other Viacom properties -- MTV, the Country Music Network, all those others.

>> Tell us about the enduring impact, from your perspective, of the NAACP Image Awards.

>> I think that the show continues to evolve.

Now, most people think of the show as a live show that they see where there might be eight categories, maybe on a good year nine, but there are over -- there are close to like 80 categories.

And we, you know, look to honor, you know, a range.

But over recent years, as things have evolved -- Like, we never had podcasts before, but we know the impact and influence that that has in our community, and so recognizing them.

What I'm really excited about is that, this past year, for the first time, we introduced hair and makeup categories as well as costume design.

>> Really?

That's interesting.

>> And that was important because while the Image Awards, for us, is not just, you know, glitz and glam, it's really another way of advocacy.

It's another way of engagement.

And what we know is that there are a lot of people that look like us that are in these fields, but they can't get in the union.

You know, sometimes, you know, their access is very much limited to different programs and sets.

And so we thought that it would be important for us to lift up the most talented and recognize them because we know that this platform is one that matters.

And, you know, over the course of the years, we now have even more connectivity with, you know, the entertainment community.

This past year, I think we had 90% of the nominees in the audience.

I mean, it was star-studded.

It was absolutely phenomenal because, you know, like with, you know, the late, great Mr. Harry Belafonte, who kind of was part of the model, him and Mr. Sidney Poitier, in terms of -- you know, and Lena Horne -- really understanding that while they had these platforms in entertainment, it was very important that they be connected to the civil rights, social justice movement.

And I'm happy to see that we are getting more and more of that from the entertainment community.

>> That's great.

How do you see the last 60 years of overall civil rights gain in America?

>> Now, being that I'm not 60 -- yet -- I would just say that we would be disingenuous if we didn't say that we haven't made progress.

I mean, you know, seeing the footage of what happened at the Edmund Pettus Bridge... >> Right, 1965.

>> ...you know, certainly.

But do we have a nation that has really sort of embraced us and given all the opportunities afforded to everyone?

No.

But as Chairman Bond used to say, you have to fight.

You have to -- You know, no one's going to give you anything.

And you have to, you know, fight for it.

And so while it would be nice, while it would be nice if we could just count on, you know, people to do the right thing, at the end of the day, they aren't.

When they do, that's nice, but most time than not, we have to advocate, we have to agitate, we even have to litigate.

And to think that we don't have to continue to do that is -- is foolhardy.

But, yeah, I think we've made progress.

I mean, when you look at, you know, those of us who were able to, you know, get into corporate America and have impact in corporate America, you know, certainly, it wasn't just because I was smart.

There were people who, you know, died to kind of -- >> They had to push those doors opens.

>> Yeah, to kind of open those doors.

But what must happen is that, when we get in these spots, we can't just be comfortable and sit there and collect the benefits from it.

We have to keep the door open, we have to help bring others in, and we have to go out in our community and continue to encourage because not all of us are -- that's not everyone's dream.

But whatever our children are dreaming, we should be able to help that be a reality.

But it doesn't come by us sitting on our laurels and sitting just saying "It's going to happen," you know?

>> Great point.

Well, I just want to ask you this about the current goals and objectives, but particularly I want to talk about Florida.

>> [ Chuckles ] Yes.

>> Recently, the NAACP issued a travel advisory about the state of Florida because of all the things that are going on there.

Can you explain why the NAACP has issued this travel advisory and what has been the response, from your perspective?

>> Yeah, I think we are all too aware of, it seems like weekly, the news that is coming out of Florida from the governor, his administration, and the leadership there.

And it's just been a constant attack on education, on equity, on the truth, on justice.

And our Florida State Conference, led by Miss Adora Obi Nweze, who you know very well, the Florida State Conference sort of did a resolution that came to the board of directors asking that we issue not a travel ban but a travel advisory, as you said.

And it really is to sort of -- It's a warning, a safety warning, and a call to action.

And it was voted upon by our national board of directors unanimously.

And our president is in the media, talking about it.

It's gotten widespread coverage because, you know, it's -- We have to warn people of what is happening there.

And it's just the first step because as you know, there is a -- there has to be a multi-prong approach when you are dealing with issues of this type.

And so we're working in coalition.

And certainly beware.

>> Seems to me that it was a, really, wake-up call.

I think everybody was wondering, "What can be done?"

And this unique tactic, strategy by the NAACP has caught a lot of people's attention.

>> Well, you know, it's all about power, right?

The whole struggle is about power and who's going to keep it.

But as we are browning, there has to be -- it's going to -- it's -- it's going to look different.

We have to operate differently.

And I like to think that this is, like, the last gasp of, you know, those who were doing everything in their power to hold on to power.

>> Yes.

>> The great news is that we do work in coalition with all of the other civil-rights groups.

And in the paper, LULAC is talking about they had their own sort of warning, and they were supporting, as well as, you know, many, many others.

And, you know, the thing about it is, one organization, and as big and as old and as storied as the NAACP is, we can't make change by ourselves.

>> Yes.

>> And it is really by working in cooperation with our faith community, the Divine Nine, you know, allies of all types, that we can make a difference.

And so, you know, we -- you know, we just continue to fight the fight.

But ultimately, they wouldn't be fighting us so hard if we weren't making progress.

You know, it's sort of like two steps forward, one step back.

But we can't get discouraged.

We can't, you know, give up.

And that's important as we talk to our community, right?

Because, you know, they came out, and they voted in record numbers in 2020, and maybe they have not seen everything that was promised.

But we know that it's about incremental progress, and we just got to stick at it.

Our ancestors did and so must we.

>> So, given the landscape of America, what gives you, Karen, your greatest hope for the NAACP, for Black America, and for the United States of America?

>> Well, listen, if we don't have hope, we have nothing.

And so I think, you know, as I look at 2024, and we know that, you know, 2020, it was Black women who delivered that election, and President Biden knows that, and he says it quite often.

And what we know is that, within our community, we have to help people to understand that we must stick to our knitting, we must continue what has been started.

And so I'm hopeful.

And what gives me greatest hope is our young people, quite frankly.

They're not having a lot of the things that you and I, you know, tolerated.

Now, sometimes you have to help them understand, you know, certain things, but I think their passion, the -- They are so equipped.

They are highly educated.

They know how to mobilize.

>> You have a daughter that just graduated from college.

>> Well, I have two daughters.

Both are Black women engineers from North Carolina A&T -- Aggie Pride.

>> Great school.

>> Yes.

And so, you know, they are just built differently.

And I think when they hear all of this talk about division and race, because many of them, you know, have grown up in a time where they are sort of talking and working with other people, you know, I think that they want to kind of get to the table to be part of fixing this because it must be fixed.

And I think it's all of us working together.

And, you know, whether we call them accomplices or allies, we really those -- need those who are, you know, morally conscious, those who believe in what's right, those who have a moral calling to really join this fight.

And the NAACP is only as good as the people who are our members.

And so we are continually, you know, hoping and helping people to understand the importance of membership.

So, um... And you're a life member.

>> Oh, absolutely.

>> And we, you know, we -- we love the work that we get to partner with you and the NNPA and those organizations that understand the importance of us fighting for our future.

>> Thank you.

The distinguished vice chair of the NAACP and chair of the NAACP Image Awards, Karen Boykin-Towns, thank you so much for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you so much.

It is an honor to sit with you.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at thechavischronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, formerly known as Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- The bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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