♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >> This brother has made an impact not only in Atlanta but throughout the world.

T.I., next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪ ♪♪ >> ♪ Opposite of moderate ♪ ♪ Immaculately polished with the spirit of a hustler and the swagger of a college kid ♪ ♪ Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics ♪ ♪ Articulate, but still will grab a...by the collar quick ♪ ♪ Whoever havin' problems with their record sales just holler, "Tip" ♪ ♪ If that don't work and all else fails, then turn around and follow Tip ♪ ♪ I got love for the game, but, hey, I'm not in love with all of it ♪ ♪ Could do without the fame, and rappers nowadays are comedy ♪ ♪ The hootin' and the hollerin', back and forth with the arguin' ♪ ♪ Where you from, who you know, what you make, and what kind of car you in?

♪ ♪ Seems as though you lost sight of what's important when depositin' them checks into your bank account ♪ ♪ And you up out of poverty ♪ >> The phenomenal, the game changer, T.I.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Man, you're definitely an icon and a true example for my generation and others to follow.

>> You know, I come out of the civil rights generation.

When hip-hop first started getting on the national scene, there was a lot of player hating.

>> [ Laughs ] >> You know, people didn't understand the connection between R&B and hip-hop... >> Right.

>> ...or even going back to jazz and some of the other genres of music, but it's an evolutionary thing.

>> Right.

>> When I saw hip-hop come out of the South Bronx, I said, "Wow."

>> Right.

>> "These brothers and sisters gotten it together."

And then Atlanta had its own flavor.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> So, tell us.

What brought you first into the culture?

>> I think it was like a kinetic energy that translated through the music.

You know, I believe the first song that really grabbed me was LL Cool J, "I'm Bad."

>> ♪ No rapper can rap quite like I can ♪ ♪ I'll take a muscle-bound man and put his face in the sand ♪ ♪ Not the last Mafioso, I'm a MC cop ♪ ♪ Make you say, "Go, LL" and do the Wop ♪ >> And as time went on, I was exposed to N.W.A.

And I think that the raw authenticity, and they look like people who I saw in my communities, you know?

>> Yes, yes.

>> And as children growing up, like, it's, you know, it's natural to want to see and hear people that look and sound like, you know, the people that you spend time around.

>> I saw an interview that you did in the past where you were talking about African culture, African-American culture.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> You were just talking about culture.

>> Right.

>> Because a lot of people, when they hear the term "hip-hop," they don't understand its wide-range cultural influence.

>> Sure.

Right.

>> You not only brought your own identity, in terms of being authentic, but representing the A-T-L, representing Atlanta.

>> Yeah.

>> You're a native of this place.

>> Yes.

Yes, sir.

Born and raised right here.

Bankhead.

>> So, tell me.

What's special about the emergence of hip-hop out of Atlanta?

>> Hip-hop as a whole, I believe the cultural phenomenon of it is so vast and so great because our people, you know, of course, had a heritage, language, religion, traditions all ripped away from us when we were brought over here against our will.

>> Right.

Transatlantic slave trade.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Enslavement.

>> Exactly.

And was dropped off and was, you know, beat over the head and force-fed the cultures of our captors.

And so, for so long, you know, we kind of just went through the world not really having our own culture to speak of.

And so, we created one.

And that is what, you know, that's what hip-hop became.

And I think that's why it's so, that's why it's so important.

It resonates.

You know what I mean?

And I think when people thought that it was only here for a short period of time, I don't think they were taking into consideration how much we needed a cultural representation.

>> ♪ Hey, who I'm is?

♪ ♪ Rubber-band man, wild as the Taliban ♪ ♪ Rolls on my right, 50 large in my other hand ♪ ♪ Hey, who I'm is?

♪ ♪ Call me trouble, man, always in trouble, man ♪ ♪ Worth a couple hundred grand ♪ ♪ Chevys, all colors, man ♪ ♪ Hey, who I'm is?

♪ ♪ I'm rubber-band man, like a one-man band ♪ ♪ Treat these rappers like the Apollo when I'm the sandman ♪ >> Resonating now not only across America, but throughout the world.

>> Sure.

>> I've traveled outside of the United States.

I see hip-hop all over the place -- different languages... >> Yep.

>> ...different geographies.

>> Yeah.

>> But it's authentic hip-hop.

>> Yeah.

You know, there's so many people, man, all over the place, man.

You got reggaeton with Latin America, and you have Afrobeats... >> Yes.

>> ...in Africa.

And these, you know, guys and girls, too, man, they tearing it up not only where they're from, but, you know, they're also translating through our communities over here.

So, I think it's truly become a bridge.

>> Tell us about the Trap Music Museum.

>> The Trap Music Museum is a collection of installations and exhibits that are dedicated to the genre of music called "trap music."

>> Yes.

>> Yeah, and trap music is basically music that details, describes the experiences, the pitfalls, the lessons, the epiphanies, and the lifestyles of people who come from the world of drugs.

>> ♪ Can't none of y'all take this city from me ♪ ♪ Take years off, and I'm still like it ♪ ♪ Dope boys know what I live like ♪ ♪ Dineros off kilos, big bank rolls, don't see lows ♪ ♪ Off O-Z's makes zeros ♪ ♪ Here we go ♪ ♪ It's time to get trap back jumping ♪ >> All throughout this nation, everyone that we come across, even everyone in this room, has been impacted in some way by the war on drugs, the crack era, the opioid epidemic.

Everybody has been impacted, whether somebody sold some you knew, whether your mama was on it or your uncles went to jail for it, or somebody did time.

Whatever it was, somebody around everybody in the nation has been impacted by drugs.

So, we all go through this together, and trap music lets us know that we're not going through it alone.

>> The museum is in Atlanta.

>> The museum is in Atlanta.

>> A recent study showed that of all the genres of music, hip-hop artists give back to the community more than any other genre.

But very suddenly, hip-hop artists are given credit... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...for being community responsible... >> Right.

>> ...or responsive to the needs of the community.

And I know you have certainly not only given back to the Atlanta community, but there's one thing that I know you're working on now -- housing, man.

Tell us, what are you doing in the housing-development area?

>> Sure.

Well, I think to the first part of your statement, I believe the reason hip-hop artists give back to the community more is because they are more likely to come from the community.

I myself, I come from this particular community where we are, and I know what it's like to be, you know, in the underserved... >> Yes.

>> ...areas of society.

So, I have a sincere and genuine passion for giving back to people who are still there and also just showing up, you know, and being a beacon of light, just showing people that, you know, you can get out, you know, and you can turn -- your life can turn around as long as you're willing to be consistent and work at something and develop a dream and a vision.

Now, as far as housing, I had the pleasure of getting into housing development early 2000.

My uncle, he and I, we had a development company called New Finish Construction... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...and I believe -- >> Based in Atlanta?

>> Based in Atlanta.

And collectively we built over 100 houses.

>> Really?

>> Yeah, from 2000 to 2009, whenever the collapse happened.

>> Over 100 houses?

>> Yeah, over 100 houses.

And after that, I then saw that when the housing market collapsed, I recognized that commercial real estate did not -- you know, it actually increased.

So, I kind of focused my attention toward commercial, mixed-use multifamily.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And simultaneously I purchased, I acquired a property -- actually the property where my grandmama used to take me shopping, where she went grocery shopping, around the corner from my house.

And I acquired this property.

Eight and a half acres -- used to be a Kmart and a supermarket.

And as I sat on the transition team alongside Killer Mike and other phenomenal businesspeople and educators in Atlanta with Keisha Lance Bottoms, I learned that housing, affordable housing, was a huge initiative.

But there was not, you know, a lot of opportunities.

In order to achieve affordable housing, you know, you kind of have to go into it with a clean slate, less debt as possible.

So, I had this property that I owned free and clear.

So, you know, we just kind of put a team together and created quite a complex capital stack that allowed us to offer affordable housing to the community.

So, now it's called, the development is called Intrada.

It's 143 units.

It's a mixed-use community, 12,000 square feet of retail at the bottom, completely affordable, 100% affordable.

And I'm proud to have been able to do it for the city, with the city.

>> That's a great model.

You know, a lot of the major cities, T.I., from San Francisco to New York, even in Washington, D.C., homelessness, man.

You see people living in tents, under bridges... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...and a lot of times the indigenous residents get gentrified out.

So, even when a development comes, they can't afford the new development.

>> Right.

>> But you're talking about affordable housing.

>> Yes.

Completely affordable.

And I think, you know, with the programs that have been made available through state funding and federal funding, I think, you know, we all came together and, you know, everybody kind of, you know, took a little haircut here, haircut there to offer the community the affordable housing that it needed.

>> Well, you know, Marcia Fudge, I've had her on "The Chavis Chronicles."

She's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, and I hope she knows about what you're doing, because, to me, you have a model that's working.

>> Well, it worked once.

To replicate it, I think, that would kind of confirm that it is working.

But right now it's doing well.

And, even more importantly, it's, like, completely full, you know, so those people have, you know, somewhere to stay, and they can afford to kind of work their way up, you know.

I think that... One thing that I learned that people probably don't know is 90% of people who work in Atlanta can't afford to live in Atlanta.

>> Is that right?

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> Is that because of the taxes or... >> Well, gentrification, I think that -- >> Gentrification.

>> Yeah.

The property values have risen so high to the point where, you know, people just can't afford to live in the city anymore.

So, a lot of people are forced into the outskirts.

>> But a lot of it was because of energy costs.

People are trying to get back into the city.

>> Right.

>> I know Detroit is on the upswing now.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> People trying to get back into Detroit.

>> Right.

>> People trying to get back into Baltimore... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...and people, like I said, trying to get into Atlanta.

>> Right.

>> And so, special programs, where the housing could be affordable, I think that's helping to shape a better future.

>> Yes.

I mean, I think that we -- Killer Mike says if everybody does a little, nobody has to do a lot, you know?

So, I'm just, you know, trying to do my part.

>> Well, listen, man.

You're not only doing your part in terms of community service, but you've had such an impact on the industry, on the recording industry, on the entertainment industry.

How do you see the future?

Is there a pathway for young brothers and sisters?

When they watch this show, what would you recommend for somebody who's serious about developing their craft in the entertainment industry?

>> Well, first, I would urge them to educate themselves about the business of the industry because a lot of times, you know, not knowing the business, not knowing where the money goes and where the money comes from, it allows us to make bad decisions that will affect our legacy and our ownership of our intellectual properties moving forward.

Of course, we have a lot of fun doing what we do, making songs and, you know, writing records, and even if you're, you know, writing scripts for film.

But these are intellectual properties that will be manipulated for the purpose of financial gain.

And if you don't know how to gain the finances from it, someone else will benefit from what you don't know.

So, I would urge people to educate themselves and also have a dream.

You know what I mean?

Have a dream.

Have a vision.

Have a vision for yourself.

Know how you want to present your art.

Know how you want to platform.

You market yourself as an artist or as a talent, because if you don't have a vision for yourself, someone else is going to fit you in the vision that they have for you.

And I think that, you know, those things are probably the most valuable pieces of advice I could offer.

>> In your own career, at what point did you cross the threshold and say, "You know what?

I'm going to be in charge of T.I.

's image"?

>> [ Chuckles ] I think probably when my first album didn't do so well, and it didn't get the attention from the major label that I was on.

You know, it was somewhat of an afterthought financially for them, and, you know, and I didn't...

I knew that everyone who heard it liked it.

I knew that as soon as people were introduced to it, they gravitated towards it.

So, all I had to do was get it in their face, put it in their hands.

So, at that present moment, I thought that, "Okay, well, I'm not going to complain about what isn't being done, and I'm not going to wait on somebody to do something for me.

I'm going to take initiative."

So, me and the support system that I had around me, we just started moving and connecting our own dots.

And I think at that point we became an operation, you know?

We began to learn how to develop our own opportunities and how to maximize off of the things that we already had around us.

And that was around 2001, 2002.

And that's -- well, 2001, I believe.

And that's when I probably said that, you know, I'm going to take full responsibility for the way this image or the way, you know, this art is presented.

>> Well, you've done a great job, T.I.

>> Thank you.

>> Your name and your image and your brand is known all over the world.

>> Well, thank you.

>> You know, brother, and it seems to me that you have leverageability in terms of your prior success, looking toward the future.

You know, there's something called "Afrofuturism."

There's something called -- I know we're in the digital age, and technology is driving.

How do you see technological innovations helping you in your mission?

You described what you're going to do in terms of mixed-housing development, making affordable housing... >> Mm-hmm.

>> ...but also in the context of your entertainment career, how do you see innovation driving the future?

>> I think that that's a very complex question because if that type of technology falls into the wrong hands, it could do just as much harm as it can help.

However, if you have people who use it responsibly, with good intentions, I think that it can definitely take us a lot farther, faster.

We just have to figure out, you know, how to minimize the negative impact and increase the positive impact.

>> Exactly, exactly.

On social media, a lot of myths, stereotypes, where a lot of young people have been told, "Look, well, you really don't need an education.

You can just go out here and hustle and grind..." >> Sure.

>> "...stack some paper..." >> Sure.

>> "...and make it."

>> Yeah.

>> But from your own experience in life, what are some of the recommendations that you can give to young people who are contemplating whether or not they need an education?

>> Well, education is key.

You know, education is imperative.

I don't think I would ever be able to have made it this far and to have, you know, garnered the amount of success or, you know, just made as much for myself and my family as I have had it not been for my education.

And all of my education did not come from school.

So, you know, I think the institutions, the formal institutions of education that have been put in place, I think that teaches you the bare-minimum fundamentals.

You know?

You have to acquire, or you have to seek knowledge on your own about the things that you do, whatever it is.

If you want to buy a certain kind of car, you need to study about these cars to know whether or not you're getting a good deal or when you come across a lemon.

So, if you don't educate yourself, it would be very easy for you to walk into a place and walk out with something that's less valuable than what you paid for it.

So, I think that's, like, that's key.

When I was young, my uncle challenged me when I told him I wanted to be a rapper.

He said, "Well, if you want to do that, I tell you what.

You learn everything it is about rapping and the business of it, and I'll make sure you have everything you need."

So, at nine years old, I was just diving into books.

Donald Passman's -- >> So, you started preparing yourself at nine years old?

>> Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I was put to task, you know, by my uncle, and you know, Donald Passman is all you need to know about the music business.

It's a book called "Hit Men" that kind of just, you know -- it set up the structure, the structure of the business for me.

You know, it taught me what publishing was.

It taught me how a song is broken down between the producer share and the writer share.

It taught me about mechanical royalties.

It taught me about licensing.

It taught me, you know, all these things that, you know, I was knowledgeable of by the time I got into the business.

So, you know, I knew what to ask for.

I knew what was a good deal, what was a bad deal.

I knew, you know -- I knew where the money was coming from, you know.

Now you have to continue the education because with streaming and all of the other, all the other streams of revenue that exist today in the technology era, you have to continue that education and expand upon it.

So, I think education is key because, you know, what you don't know, someone else who knows will charge you for it, you know?

>> I recall back in 2007, 2008, we were on bus tours to get the vote out.

>> Yep.

Yep.

>> What can you say about the social consciousness of hip-hop culture to get people to vote, to get people to be civically engaged, to take responsibility for their communities?

>> Well, I think hip-hop, having such a large impact, has become very, as you said, leverageable.

And I think when people see that, then they try to...

They try to -- you know, acquire that leverage for their benefit.

I think what hip-hop has to do a better job of is making sure that we are receiving something in return in exchange for that leverage to offer our community so we're not just moving and spinning our wheels.

And when people get what they need from us, then they run on off into the sunset, and we're still sitting here, you know, with empty hands.

>> Accountability is very important.

>> Very.

>> After all that you've been through and after all you've learned, after all of your success, what gives you your greatest hope today?

>> My children.

My children, definitely.

That's my greatest asset and investment.

>> So, family is important.

>> Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Family is at the root of my success, I have to say.

>> T.I., thank you... >> Thank you.

>> ...for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Pleasure.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, formally known as Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion, both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

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