The reflecting pool between the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument, ordinarily an admired and generally undiscussed [music] feature of the nation's capital, has a new role.

It's the place where metaphor goes [music] to die.

President Trump's renovation turned it into an actual swamp in desperate need of draining.

Tonight, we'll look at the ways in which the [music] White House's chaotic approach to redesigning Washington is representative of the broader chaos [music] in foreign and domestic policy.

Next, this is [music] Washington Week with The Atlantic.

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Additional [music] funding is provided by Coup and Patricia Euan for the Euan Foundation committed to bridging cultural differences in our [music] communities.

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Thank you once again [music] from the David M. Rubenstein studio at Weta in Washington, editor-inchief of The Atlantic and moderator Jeffrey Goldberg.

Good evening and welcome to Washington Week.

It isn't only metaphors that go to die in the reflecting pool.

Apparently, some ducks might have died there as well.

The reflecting pool episode is not in itself important, unless you're one of those ducks.

But compared to matters related to the economy, energy prices, and housing, of course, war in the Middle East and and Europe, Trump's efforts to remake Washington don't matter all that much.

But they tell us a lot about the current chaos and about his approach to leadership and governance.

Here to make sense of the week, Leanne Caldwell, the chief Washington correspondent at Puck.

Steven Hayes is the editor and CEO of The Dispatch.

Michael Sheer is a staff writer and White House correspondent at The Atlantic.

and Nancy Ysef is a staff writer and Pentagon correspondent at the Atlantic.

Thank you all for I just want to stand up for ducks.

Stand up for ducks.

That's our new motto at Washington Week.

Um but Steve, let's let's just jump let's just jump right into the reflecting pool.

What is it what does it all mean?

What is the obsession with uh with the reflecting pool uh both the political obsession and the president's original obsession?

Yeah, I mean, look, I spent the better part of uh three weeks trying to ignore this story as much as I possibly could, precisely because it wasn't important.

When you look around, it's like we're really focused on the reflecting pool.

I think the president wanted to to boast about what he's done to clean up Washington.

They cleaned up a fountain near Union Station.

This was part of a broader um sort of refurbishment.

and his fans were out on social media boosting the president and immediately or almost immediately it was clear that this wasn't working.

Whatever had happened elsewhere, this one wasn't working.

And so you have the president trying to find somebody to blame for what has gone wrong.

Um is it possible that there conspiracy?

Yeah, the the international algae conspiracy the vandals that have cut this reinforced rubber that he said a couple months ago couldn't be cut.

I [snorts] think it's possible that that happened.

I mean, you've had left-wing types try to assassinate the president several times.

So, sure, maybe they wanted to embarrass him here, but we can say that the way that the White House has reacted is inconsistent with the way the White House reacts when something like this happens.

Remember, Cash Patel jumped the gun on the UFC plot.

He outed people in previous uh attempts on the president's life.

You've got the president himself who tweeted out a picture of the White House correspondents dinner shooter right as it happened before anything happened.

They've told us nothing about these potential vandals so far.

Right.

Right.

Michael, the we reported this week, the Atlantic reported this week that uh in a in a meeting with Lonnie Bunch, the head of the Smithsonian last year.

President Trump spent most of the time talking about chandelier color.

Yeah.

um and also talking about his deep desire to knock down Dulles airport and rename it after himself, rebuild it.

Um it's not really a joke at all to suggest that President Trump cares more about architecture, design, interior decorating than he cares about almost anything.

Yeah.

He's he's a hobbyist who happens to be president and he's getting to do his hobby with public taxpayer dollars at at what to whatever extent he wants.

Um part of this is also that he conflates national greatness with what he can do and and that's sort of part of his identity as part of his politics.

We saw him on the National Mall this week um launching the Great American State Fair patriotic event supposed to be a unifying moment.

It was all about how great he has been as president.

That was his speech.

That was a speech he delivered.

Um and and he has like these projects are not going to end.

I I reported this week that uh you know he had said months ago that he was repaving the colonade outside the Oval Office with black African granite.

Um it was Tennessee flag stone, but that was not good enough.

That was not good enough.

And he said he'd pay for it, but he isn't paying for it.

You know, the park service documents show that uh that the park service was built for it.

And he keeps going to Congress.

He went there initially for $10 billion for DC beautifification.

They said no.

He said he wanted a billion dollars in the summer uh supplemental for White House security enhancements.

They said no.

He just put up a supplemental for the Iran uh war.

And he asked for another $500 million for the park service, including he wants to rebuild the retaining wall, I think around the uh uh uh the the golf course that he wants to redo the seaw wall there on the Ptoac River.

Um, so he's not done.

He's just getting going.

I mean, we're going to have project after project after project after project because it is really the thing that captures his imagination, gets him excited.

Is this because he's a hotel guy?

It's his whole life has been this.

Yes.

From the beginning.

I mean, like go back to the earliest quotes you can find of Donald Trump in 1983 or ' 84.

It's about what he knows about real estate and how to make buildings beautiful.

So, that that's his whole identity, right?

Um, Leanne, let's move to things that happen inside government buildings, not uh not the paint jobs and the marble.

Um, there was this uh burst of bipartisanship this week that was then burst.

The burst was burst by Donald Trump at the last minute, not participating, deciding not to participate in this bipartisan effort.

Give us the backdrop of this.

Give us the background.

Yeah.

So, you're talking about a bipartisan housing bill that passed overwhelmingly from the House and the Senate.

It was like old school legislating, something that is really a lost art on Capitol Hill.

Something especially that's a lost art amares about things that can pass with Republicans only.

Um, and it defied despite the president, it moved forward.

Um, the president decided that he was not going to sign it into law.

There was a podium set up at the Capitol.

All the chairs were ready to go.

There was flowers and the ropes, everything, you know, in a production-like way.

Um, this was going to be legislation that both parties actually could tout on the affordability crisis.

Um, and its goal was to its goal is to make it easier to build housing.

Yeah, it it incentivizes more building.

It talks about the the the low stock and housing trying to to cut through that.

So, um, the president decided an hour before he was supposed to sign it that he is not going to sign it.

Um, the reason is because of the Save America Act.

Um, this is legislation that the president has been obsessed with.

It's about requires a voter ID to vote.

It requires proof of citizenship.

He keeps adding things he wants on this, including uh prohibiting male and ballots, uh banning women or trans trans men from playing in women's sports.

Um and and he has really paralyzed Washington over this.

The House of Representatives didn't do any work this week because one Republican member was holding everything up because the Senate has not passed the Save America Act.

Um the Senate is completely paralyzed as well.

Uh the president won't sign foreign intelligence surveillance legislation because of it.

Won't sign the bipartisan housing bill.

Um you know, he went to Capitol Hill to yell at Republican senators about this very issue.

And they yelled back, some of them at one one person, Senator Bill Cassidy, yelled back.

This was their opportunity to have a discussion with the president about why it's impossible for this legislation to pass the Senate.

There are not 60 votes.

You need Democrats in order to do it.

The president wants them to change the Senate rules, get rid of the filibuster, do whatever it takes.

Like the president is doing whatever he wants with the reflecting pool, building everything.

He is extremely frustrated with the Senate.

Um, Senate Majority Leader John Thun won't uh won't change the Senate rules for this.

Um, it is dividing the conference.

Um, it is dividing the Republican base.

People are worried about the impact this is going to have on the midterm elections.

And I'm going to report on Sunday that um in my column on Sunday that one of the things that the president told his rep the Republican senators in this closed door lunch is no one cares about housing.

At my rallies, no one cheers about housing.

What they do cheer for is the Safe Act, is this voting legislation.

And so that really encapsulates um how he's thinking about this and what his priorities are.

And again getting back to like the big picture here, Congress is completely paralyzed.

Right.

Um Nancy, staying on the subject of things that divide the Republican party, things that divide the Republican base, Iran.

Um, Iran just fired on a tanker uh because the tanker apparently wasn't following the rules of the road or the rules of the straight of Hormuz that Iran believes are now in place.

Um, how did we get to this point now where Iran is regularly asserting its control over the Straight of Hormuz even after this preliminary agreement?

Uh it just seems as if you melt away everything else before the war started in February, the straight was open and now Iran believes that it's that it's theirs and and and the Trump administration isn't doing very much about that.

So the way it started was the US in February when it launched its war on Iran said that it was going after its leadership that this was a a threat to Iran's existence itself.

And so Iran said, "If that's the case, we're going to use the most important card we have, the one that we've held for this situation, which is threatening passage through the straight of Hormuz, knowing that it's critical to the world's economy because 1/5if of oil went through there, as well as key um resources traveled through that straight.

And so it brought the strait into the war.

The US then um was unable to make the regime fall.

But what the regime learned was that by using that leverage, it gave itself a strategic advantage in not only the war but then subsequently the talks.

We heard it from Trump himself.

Why did he want to end the war?

Now he said in France because of the threat to the economy, not because of Iran's missile strikes on Gulf Partners.

The primary issue is that stock piles were running low and we had to reopen the straight.

So that's that's how we got here.

Then they signed a memorandum of understanding.

A memorandum of understanding doesn't deal with the core issues around this.

And in some ways, we all were waiting for this moment when Iran would try to leverage again its power over the strait because by doing so, what Iran is saying is you can agree on whatever you want.

You we can make any kind of deal we want.

There can also be unofficial ways that we control the street.

In the days leading up to this, they were there's a lot of chatter to ships traveling through.

You need to check with us first.

You need our approval first.

You need to pay first potentially going down the road.

So they're trying to set the conditions on how this trade is going to operate going forward outside of these what could be monthsl long talks about key issues like proxies, ballistic missiles and and eventually the straits.

So that's that's how we got to the point that they are now using their drones to create enough intimidation such that they continue to have a say over how the street operates despite what the president says.

Steve, that does not sound like winning.

does it?

Um, no, it's it's definitely not a winning.

And to add to to NY's list, I mean, there's we we haven't settled the big things and the memor memorandum of understanding is a punt and it's unclear whether there will actually be a deal in part because Iran got a lot of the things that Iran was seeking through the memorandum.

Explain why it's a punt just for a moment.

Well, it's it's a punt because the Iranians knew what they wanted to get and they got a lot of those things.

I mean, the first the first paragraph says no more fighting in in Lebanon.

Lebanon has mentioned three times they wanted to protect Hezbollah.

The the Trump administration effectively shrugged their shoulders and said, "Okay, we'll do that."

Um, they've gotten free flow of oil of goods.

They're getting more money.

We're talking about a $300 billion recovery fund that the administration sort of in the memorandum of understanding itself suggests that they're going to help with, but then when they're asked about it, they sort of shrug their shoulders and say, "We haven't made any commitments."

But Iran is now going to be getting this money that they've long sought uh one way or the other, whether it's the re of sanctions, whether it's through a recovery fund, and the administration's basically tied it tied its own hands to negotiate further.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Can I just add quickly because I think those are all important points.

If nothing happens, Iran now has the capability to sell their oil at market value.

There are tankers in the water right now that they can start selling to China.

There are silos in China filled with oil that they can start making hundreds of billions of dollars off of right now if nothing else changes and replenish their weapon stores with that money.

They replenish their weapon storage.

They could re they could rebuild their proxy network.

There's all sorts of funding that that that comes into play even if nothing else happens because of just the memorandum of understanding.

So you can imagine what's at stake for the United States and for Iran as we go through the details of things like proxy groups, their ballistic missile capability and and other factors.

Hezel has also gotten more than a billion dollars by the Institute for Study of War Analysis, more than a billion dollars since 2024, and Iran has already signaled that it will be replenishing its funds and increasing those based on what they're getting here.

Now, I think the other the other issue here is as we get closer to the midterm elections, Iran's ability to affect the US economy again and affect the political standing of the president grows.

And they've shown that there there was never a settlement.

There's not a there's not a flip switch that says, "Okay, we're now in agreement pieces at hand."

And so I fully expect, I don't, you know, know their thinking.

I don't report on it, but that that Trump remains vulnerable.

If we go into September and there's another 10% spike in oil prices, that's a news cycle.

Everyone knows what the the price of gasoline is.

That hurts Trump.

And so he who controls the price of gas at the pump two months before a midterm, especially has extraordinary power over an American election because Trump has said, "I don't want to go back to military action."

He has signaled that.

And so if the Iranians know that that the the president is reluctant to use military force again, they have incentive to sort of challenge um the control of the strait and and by extension the price of oil.

What is notable about that obviously is that President Trump among other Republicans was highly critical of President Obama for signaling in Afghanistan and elsewhere, we're going to do X, but we're not going to do Y. Telling the enemy ahead of time, this is what we're not going to do.

And now they seem to be doing the same exact thing.

Steve, you mentioned something that that that struck me and I want to ask the the broader question about the debate inside the Republican party, inside the administration, but you you you basically alluded to the fact that in this last round, the United States, the Trump administration more or less took the side of Iran on the Lebanon question and not Israel, its partner in the war that was launched in February.

That seems a like a plot twist.

Yeah, I mean it's what look I think you can say without hyper hyperbole, without exaggeration that this is a proterrorism deal that the memorandum of understanding as it stands right now because it makes clear that the IRGC the the Iranian regime is going to be flush with cash the same thing that Republicans as you pointed out objected to in the most strenuous terms under Barack Obama I think correctly uh that's now going to happen at scale in orders magnitude more money.

We're talking about money is fungeible.

This is this is one of the things Republicans went nuts on and that means that Hasbel is going to be stronger.

So Leanne, you have a lot of people on the hill, Republican senators on the hill, who are hawkish on these Middle East questions in the style of their former colleague Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State who runs one branch of American foreign policy.

JD Vance seems to run another.

Um what are what are you hearing uh among um that that sort of national security crowd among Republicans about these not completely coherent twists and turns in Trump's policy.

The national security Republicans are many of them are mostly privately beside themselves what thisou does.

Um they don't like it.

um but they're not willing to do much about it.

We saw that for the first time at the beginning of the week that uh four Republicans joined with Democrats and to vote in favor uh to end the war essentially a war powers resolution.

Um you know it had passed really because two Republican senators were gone.

There was an attendance issue but still it passed.

Donald Trump comes to the Senate, uh, has his lunch about the voting rights bill or the voting bill, um, but also is furious about this Iran vote.

Um, even though it's symbolic, it doesn't sign it into law, doesn't have any binding properties, he understands that this is a bad message that is being sent to Iran.

And then, you know, later in the day, Senator Bill Cassidy, the same senator who got into a shouting match with the president be over Iran, ch flips his vote in a new version of this bill and uh votes decide with the president.

He says it's because he finally got a briefing from on on the issue.

He went to the vice president's house, talked to the vice president and Steve Whit.

Great.

Maybe he has a better understanding now of what the intentions are, but he really got bullied into this.

And the reality is is what's happening on the hill.

Pete Hgsth has given a briefing to conservative members of the House of Representatives about thisou.

A select few number of Republican senators got a briefing from JD Vance and Steve Witoff on theou.

There's been some, you know, national security smaller group briefings, but there has not been any sort of all member understanding of what's happening there.

And so half the Congress is being left out of these discussions.

Can I quickly add, I think of um the war in Iran splitting the Republican party between MAGA and neoonservatives, the way the war in Gaza split progressive and centrist on the Democratic side.

And I think that's I want to get to that in in a minute.

Before we before we do, um I want to talk about JD Vance has had an interesting week.

Um uh here's something.

Just watch this for a second.

Here's something that he said about Richard Nixon just the other day.

I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so.

As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story.

Like the idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy.

I'm perplexed why someone would someone who works for Donald Trump say that.

Michael, you you you just broke another story about a corruption related issue today.

What is what is Vance doing there?

I think I mean if you talk to White House advisers and other Trump world advisers about Vance, they'll mention he's just really green.

He hasn't been in politics very long.

He was only just elected to the Senate before he became vice president.

He just doesn't have a lot of experience.

And I think he's too online.

I mean, the idea that Republicans defend Nixon is one thing.

It's it's pretty normal at this point.

Trump has been very favorable about Nixon.

The idea that um the Watergate scandal, which basically destroyed the Republican party for 5 years in the 1970s, um is is somehow something you should embrace now, only works on social media.

It's not that's not a political argument, right?

and and and then to say that, oh, compared to what we see today, it's nothing.

It's like, you're not an online commenter.

You're the vice president of the United States in an administration that you seem to be accusing of communing corruption.

I just I I I just found this whole week a little bit incoherent for my for my taste, but we'll we'll we'll move on from from that.

I I want to ask about um Democratic politics, New York City, Democratic Socialists uh on the rise.

um uh Mayor Manny showing his muscle.

The question is, is this going to lead to a split in the party?

The way as Nancy was alluding, you see different kinds of splits in the Republican party.

It's causing a lot of heartburn among Democrats.

Um this could if Democrats take control of the House of Representatives, and if it's a slim majority, this could cause a lot of problems for Hakee Jeff um and his ability to govern.

Um, no.

This and they're less concerned with Democrats are less concerned with Republicans trying to tie the entire party uh to these Democratic socialists and they point to look yes this happens.

This was in a blue seat.

The seat we care about more is the one in upstate New York where we got our candidate and that's a majority.

It's New York City so all bets are off.

But but it matters, right?

I mean Steve, let me ask you this.

there there one of the candidates coming into Congress because she won a Democratic primary and overwhelming Democratic district.

Uh [clears throat] Daria Liisa Shioalier um said all kinds of uh things.

This is the sort of thing that apart from being ridiculous and appalling.

This this kind of quote could be an albatross around the necks of the Democrats.

She she tweeted once, "I forgot to get napkins, so I just wiped my hand on the American flag behind me."

Leanne is making the case that this doesn't really matter nationally, but I would have to imagine the Republicans are going to try to attach that to the reputation.

No doubt.

Look, one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was because he would say, "Look at how crazy they are."

And you know, there was grounds for him to say some of that, but this is Donald Trump's dream.

if he can point to those kind of quotes and they can make ads about this, broadcast them all over the country and it is concerning enough to other Democrats that you're seeing moderate and centrist Democrats step up and say nothing to do with this.

That's not us.

Um Nancy, in the last minute that we have you and um Missy Ryan broke a story this week about General CD Donahghue um one of the most esteemed army leaders of this generation, former Delta, former everything.

Um would be retiring prematurely after running into opposition in Pete Hegath's Pentagon.

What does it mean?

So he's at least the 20th general or admiral to be pushed out of office.

And the fact is we don't know why the secretary is going this way.

But I think what young officers are taking from this is that disagreeing under Pete Hexet's um Pentagon is a form of disrespect.

And so what it pretends is a a military officer unwilling to give their candid military advice because they fear it will be career ending and that's why it's having such a a big effect um inside the Pentagon this week.

Right.

Right.

Um and we've seen a lot of generals, ex-generals and admirals now push back against this particular firing.

Um, I'm sure we'll talk about this more as as we as we continue, but for now we're going to have to leave it there.

Um, I want to thank our guests for joining me.

I want to thank you at home for watching us.

I'm Jeffrey Goldberg.

Good night from Washington.

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