JOHN: THE SKYROCKETING COST OF LIVING HAS LEFT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORKING AT FULL-TIME JOBS OR A NUMBER OF PART-TIME JOBS UNABLE TO AFFORD A PLACE TO LIVE.

ALI ROGIN SPOKE WITH JOURNALIST BRIAN GOLDSTONE, AUTHOR OF "THERE IS NO PLACE FOR US," ABOUT THIS GROWING NATIONWIDE CRISIS.

ALI: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IN YOUR WORK, YOU'VE COME TO KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO WORK, WHO MAY HAVE MORE THAN ONE JOB, BUT HAVE COME INTO CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO KEEP A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.

CERTAINLY, EACH PERSON HAS A UNIQUE STORY, BUT ARE THERE ANY COMMON THREADS IN THEIR EXPERIENCES THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY?

BRIAN: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I DO ARGUE IN MY BOOK THAT IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA TODAY AND ONE CITY AFTER ANOTHER, A LOW-WAGE JOB REALLY IS HOMELESSNESS WAITING TO HAPPEN.

AND WHAT THEY HAVE IN COMMON IS THEY ALL BELONG TO THE LOW WAGE WORKFORCE.

IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEIR WAGES ARE TOO LOW TO KEEP UP WITH THE SKYROCKETING COST OF HAVING A PLACE TO LIVE.

IT'S ALSO THAT THE JOBS THEMSELVES HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY VOLATILE AND PRECARIOUS, WHERE THEY OFTEN DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOURS THEY'RE GOING TO BE GETTING FROM ONE WEEK TO THE NEXT.

THEIR EMPLOYERS GIVE THEM 29 HOURS A WEEK BECAUSE AT 30 THEY WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR BASIC BENEFITS LIKE HEALTH INSURANCE OR SICK LEAVE.

AND YEAH, THE COST OF HOUSING, RENTS ARE JUST VERY, VERY QUICKLY OUTPACING WHAT THEIR INCOMES ARE.

ALI: FOR A LONG TIME, THE STEREOTYPICAL PERCEPTION OF HOMELESSNESS IS THAT IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE ON THE FRINGES OF SOCIETY.

AND THAT MAY HAVE NEVER BEEN ACCURATE, BUT WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND OUT IN YOUR REPORTING ABOUT THE REALITY OF WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE WITHOUT A HOME?

BRIAN: YEAH, I MEAN, ONE REALLY ASTONISHING TRUTH ABOUT HOMELESSNESS IN AMERICA IS THAT WHAT WE SEE ON THE STREET IS REALLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

THERE'S THIS ENTIRE WORLD OF HOMELESSNESS THAT IS OUT OF SIGHT, THAT HAS BEEN RENDERED INVISIBLE.

AND WITHIN THAT SHADOW REALM OF HOMELESSNESS, AS I REFER TO IT, IT IS OVERWHELMINGLY POPULATED WITH PEOPLE, AGAIN, WHO ARE PART OF THE LOW-WAGE WORKFORCE, WHO ARE FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN.

AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING AND WORKING AND WORKING SOME MORE AND IT SIMPLY IS NOT ENOUGH TO SECURE ONE OF LIFE'S MOST BASIC NECESSITIES, A ROOF OVERHEAD.

I MEAN, TO BE SURE IN THE RICHEST NATION ON THE PLANET, NOBODY SHOULD BE WITHOUT HOUSING.

BUT THESE PERNICIOUS MYTHS AND STEREOTYPES THAT HOMELESSNESS IS JUST CAUSED BY ADDICTION OR IT'S JUST CAUSED MY MENTAL ILLNESS, IT REALLY IS NOT BORNE OUT BY AH THE REALITY ON THE GROUND.

AND INDEED, OFTEN MENTAL ILLNESS AND ADDICTION IS A CONSEQUENCE OF THIS FORM OF INSECURITY, NOT ITS CAUSE.

ALI: CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE LIVES OF THE HOMELESS WORKERS ARE DAY IN AND DAY OUT?

AND ALSO, DO THOSE LIVES GET HARDER DURING THE HOLIDAYS?

BRIAN: I THINK IT'S REALLY EASY FOR TERMS LIKE THE HOUSING CRISIS OR THE HOMELESSNESS CRISIS TO BECOME KIND OF ABSTRACT AND TO LOSE TOUCH WITH JUST THE ACUTE HUMAN TOLL OF THIS GROWING CATASTROPHE IN AMERICA.

YOU KNOW, WHAT HOMELESSNESS LOOKS LIKE TODAY ISN'T JUST THE PERSON SLEEPING OUTSIDE THE PARKING LOT OF A CONVENIENCE STORE OR WALMART OR A TARGET.

IT'S OFTEN THE VERY CASHIER OR WORKER STOCKING THE SHELVES IN THOSE STORES.

AND THEY OFTEN HAVE CHILDREN AND AT THE END OF THEIR SHIFTS, THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE GOING.

THEY HAVE TO TELL THEIR CHILDREN, I DON'T WHERE WE'RE STAYING TONIGHT.

MAYBE THEY'RE SLEEPING IN A CAR IN THAT VERY PARKING LOT.

AND YOU KNOW THERE'S A TERM THAT PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS USE TO REFER TO THE KIND OF STRESS THAT CHILDREN AND PARENTS ARE EXPOSED TO IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THAT TERM IS TOXIC STRESS.

THIS IS STRESS THAT IS SO CHRONIC, SO DEBILITATING THAT IT CAN FUNDAMENTALLY ALTER.

A CHILD'S LONG-TERM DEVELOPMENT.

THAT IS THE HUMAN TOLL OF THIS INSECURITY, AND IT IS THE CONSEQUENCE.

IT'S THE TOLL OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED WHEN MILLIONS, NOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, BUT MILLIONS OF FAMILIES IN THIS COUNTRY HAVE BEEN FLUNG INTO WHAT A CASE MANAGER IN MY BOOK REFERS TO AS THE HOUSING HUNGER GAMES.

ALI: YOU'VE CITED A NUMBER OF DEFICIENCIES ACROSS ALL SORTS OF CATEGORIES THAT ARE FAILING PEOPLE.

BUT WHAT INSTITUTIONS HERE NEED TO CHANGE?

IS THIS A FAILURE OF GOVERNMENT, OF INDUSTRY, ALL OF THE ABOVE?

HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

BRIAN: YEAH, I THINK IT IS ALL OF THE ABOVE.

WHAT I FOUND IN MY REPORTING IN THE COURSE OF KIND OF IMMERSING MYSELF IN THE DAY-TO-DAY LIVES OF FIVE FAMILIES HERE IN ATLANTA WHERE I LIVE OVER A PERIOD OF NEARLY SIX YEARS.

IT'S NOT JUST THE HOUSING SYSTEM, WHICH YOU KNOW, PRIORITIZES PROFITS ABOVE ALL ELSE.

IT'S NOT JUST WORK AND JOBS AND THE WAGES THAT AREN'T KEEPING UP WITH THE COST OF LIVING.

IT'S ALSO OTHER SYSTEMS LIKE HEALTH CARE, A LACK OF AFFORDABLE CHILD CARE.

THE EDUCATION SYSTEM, FOOD INSECURITY, ALL OF THESE SYSTEMS COLLIDE TO MAKE THIS HUMAN DISASTER NOT JUST POSSIBLE, BUT IN MANY WAYS PREDICTABLE AND INEVITABLE.

ALI: BRIAN GOLDSTONE, AUTHOR OF "THERE IS NO PLACE FOR US."

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

BRIAN: OH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.