Following is a special presentation of the New Hampshire Votes 2024 Candidate Forums, a project of the Granite State News Collaborative.

Partners.

Welcome to the forum for New Hampshire Governor, presented by the Granite State News Collaborative, hosted by NHPR.

I'm Josh Rogers, joined by my colleague Annemarie Timmins.

These forums are in partnership with New Hampshire PBS and produced with support from journalists all around the state, including the Concord Monitor, the Laconia Daily Sun and at Manchester Ink Link Link this forum, streaming live on NPR's YouTube channel, and is being made available as a simulcast through C-Span.

Today, we're joined by former Manchester Mayor Joyce Craig, Democrat and former Senator Kelly Ayotte, the Republican nominee.

Welcome to you both.

As you as you can gather, we do have a live studio audience.

A bit about the format.

Each candidate will have 60 seconds for an opening statement We'll then move to questions.

Candidates will get 60 seconds to respond.

Annmarie and I at times will follow up or seek clarity.

Candidates will get 30s in those instances, we ask that, and in cases of direct criticism, candidates will get a chance to respond.

30s on that front.

We ask our audience to remain silent, and we ask our candidates to respect each other and to speak and turn for today's questions.

We've relied on public feedback and thank those who supplied input.

We're going to get started with opening statements.

I'm told we have flipped a coin and that Mayor Craig, you go first.

60s.

The floor is yours.

Thank you Josh Annmarie and NHPR for hosting and for everyone who's listening in today.

You know, this election is about trust.

I first got involved in public service when I ran for school board.

I wanted to strengthen Manchester public schools.

The schools that I graduated from and the schools that my kids were attending.

And I'm running for governor today for the same reasons that I ran for our school board and for mayor, to ensure that residents across our state have the opportunity to succeed.

I know that too many families and communities are being left behind.

And I'm running to change that.

I understand the challenges that our local communities are facing and how the state should be better.

Supporting all of us as governor will tackle this housing crisis will ensure that our communities are safe.

We'll strengthen public schools and protect reproductive freedom because I trust women to make their own health care decisions.

And we will do all of this without a sales or an income tax.

Thank you, and I look forward to the discussion today.

Senator Ayotte.

It's great to be here.

I want to thank nhpr for hosting, this debate.

I believe the past eight years under Governor Sununu have been very good for New Hampshire.

New Hampshire is leading the nation in many metrics.

We're the number one state for child well-being.

We're the number one state for personal and economic freedom.

We have the lowest tax burden in the nation and the lowest poverty rate in the nation.

I could go on and on, but the results speak for themselves.

The governor Sununu's path that he's had this state on has been good for the people of New Hampshire.

I will keep New Hampshire on that path, but together we will work to make New Hampshire even stronger by tackling the housing crisis, strengthening our mental health system, improving education for all students.

My opponent, Joyce Craig, has a different path that she wants to take us down.

She looks to Massachusetts and thinks that's a better model for New Hampshire with higher taxes and less freedom.

I don't think that's the right direction for New Hampshire.

New Hampshire is truly a beacon for New England and for the nation.

And together, we can make New Hampshire even better.

Thank you for having me.

Okay.

You both mentioned it, in your opening.

So we're going to talk about housing first.

We'll get to, some of the criticisms that the senator made of you in a moment, mayor.

But, first to housing, Senator, to you first, the median price for a house in New Hampshire is at an all time high with residents.

Many residents say purchasing a new home is simply, you know, out of reach for them economically.

What do you say to people who may look around their community and see some new developments, see some openings to to purchase a house, but they're targeted towards either rent that is too high for them or things they simply can't afford.

So what role do you see the state in playing in encouraging more affordable housing in New Hampshire?

60s for you, Senator.

Oh thank you Josh.

No.

We have a real lack of supply of housing in this state right now of all forms, and that's causing a crunch for families and keeping our young people here and also keeping seniors in their homes.

I believe that the state's role, there's obviously a role for the state when it comes to there's an approval process at the state level and at the local level.

The state approval process, I think, could be much better and more efficient.

I was just at a group, meeting with the New Hampshire home builders yesterday, and they were telling me about a project that's been delayed 18 months at the state level.

So I want to take a process of making that, you know, from the private sector, it's called lean.

You look at a whole process from the beginning to the end, to make sure it's a 60 day process where it's transparent with multiple agencies.

Obviously.

Does, D.O.T.

does dot fish and game make sure that they're all communicating together so we get approvals done faster.

Then we'll look at what the state owns.

Is the is it the best use for every piece of state property, or should we turn that back to the localities?

I mean, typically on affordability, do you see that permitting affecting that?

Well, I do in terms of because if projects can't go forward it's important.

Look, last week I was at a project, in Rochester.

There was a partnership between New Hampshire Housing.

So financing tax credits also HUD federal dollars with the private sector.

And if we can get approvals done efficiently, then we can build those kinds of projects.

I was also at one in Swansea.

So these types of partnerships and really as governor, bringing everyone to the table and leading on this effort is what I would do.

So Mayor Craig, as you know, as you may know, our neighboring states, Vermont, Maine have, taken steps to limit single family zoning, in the furtherance of getting more housing units built.

Is that something you think New Hampshire should explore pursuing?

So as mayor of Manchester, I tackled the housing crisis that we're seeing in our state, and we now have over 2000 homes and apartments in development.

And as mayor, I allocated over $30 million toward affordable housing.

I'm only I also months ago put forward a housing plan.

Josh, that does, suggest that the state provide technical assistance to local communities to address their zoning ordinances, because I do believe that, you know, that is one of the barriers to building homes, local zoning ordinances.

But I do believe it is, something that the local communities should control.

But the state can provide technical assistance to update those zoning ordinances to encourage more housing.

As I'm traveling around this state, I also know there are significant barriers with a lack of infrastructure.

So towns don't have the their water and sewer needed, to build.

They want to build, but they won't put the cost on their local taxpayers.

That's something that the state and the federal government can help tackle.

We need to build more housing.

And when we do that, the cost of housing will go down, I think.

But apart from assisting local communities with zoning changes, you would not advocate, perhaps enforcing those changes to take place by by modifying May creating a statewide policy as Maine and Vermont have done.

At this point, my goal and outlined in my housing, plan is to work with local communities to build the housing that they need that works for them.

But we need to build and we need to partner in doing so.

I think it's really important to note, though, that my opponent, is actually, benefiting financially from this housing crisis.

She's on the board of Blackstone, the largest corporate landlord in this country.

She's made millions of dollars because our state and our country is in a housing crisis.

We cannot trust her to address this crisis and build more housing, when in fact, she is profiting off of.

We're going to get to that in a moment for both of you, in fact, have financial interests in the in the housing sector.

You were on the board of Blackstone, Senator, as the mayor says, you say they have very few, they own very few property units in New Hampshire.

Mayor, you are a small time landlord yourself.

You know, mayor, New Hampshire, in New Hampshire, landlords can raise rent, without there are no there no statewide policies about of caps on on rate increases.

A lot of people have seen rates skyrocketing the last few years.

Do you believe the state should have price controls that they can exert for, you know, our state doesn't have laws as they pertain to price gouging.

And I think that is something that we need to look into.

So a corporation like Blackstone can't come in and jack up rents and push people out of their homes.

You mentioned that I'm a landlord.

We have nine apartments in a commercial, commercial location with a yoga studio in it.

My mother lives in one apartment, my daughter lives in another.

And we're providing, if you raise their rents, affordable rents for tenants, it's affordable rent.

You know, it's very, very different than being on the board of Blackstone and earning millions of dollars.

You know, they just had.

Well, let's just let's just turn this over to Senator.

I just want to finish what I'm saying, if I could, they just had an investor call like, yeah, I'm going to get to that.

I'm aware of that.

So so, you know, first off, to the criticism that being on the board of Blackstone is tantamount to, you know, gouging rents and and benefiting of that.

What do you say to that?

I mean, Josh, it's just it's completely absurd.

And the other piece of it is, as you've already pointed out, they own two hotels and a student housing, piece in, in Durham.

So the notion that that's impacting the housing issue here.

But what we do need to do is get the private sector at the table.

And Joyce Craig wants to vilify the private sector.

We need them at the table to build both the developments.

I just talked to you about that have affordable workforce housing, had private sector partnerships with the developers in our state.

We need them at the table.

That's what I will do as governor.

You know, and I also had the opportunity, for example, to chair the largest manufacturing, employer in our state, VA system.

So knowing how important this is to private employers, bringing people to the table, that's what this is about.

Let's just keep it to Blackstone for a minute.

There was a Blackstone earnings call last week.

You still serve on a company's board.

The Blackstone representative on that call cited the scarcity of housing in many markets as a way to boost Blackstone's bottom line.

You know, something that would financially benefit you, presumably.

You know, we've talked about the relatively small number of units Blackstone may own in New Hampshire, but just talking generally the way of thinking as agree on that call.

Let me just imagine the profits, the general site, obviously, a lack of scarcity.

There is a lack of scarcity of housing in this nation.

There isn't enough.

There's not enough in New Hampshire.

So in New Hampshire, we're going to build more housing.

But on on the company that that is saying strategically that will be a benefit to us.

You know, what do you say to people who say that?

What I say to people is that you want a governor?

When I look at my prior experience, I've spent most of my life in public service, in the U.S. Senate as an attorney general, and now I have private sector experience.

When I'm governor, all I'm going to do every day is get up and serve the people of this state.

As governor, I'm not going to be serving on any, company's boards of doing anything.

What I will do is I will take that experience to really make sure that we're doing all we can to build housing in the state of New Hampshire, and that is the type of experience we need as we look at state property, as we look at the approval process to make it better, as we look of how do we fight for federal funding with HUD?

When I was in the Senate, I fought for low income housing tax credits.

I'll do that as governor on behalf of the people of New Hampshire, so that we can bring everyone to the table.

Okay, I suspect we may circle back to this, but I want to switch to another question.

I respond because she called me out on the private sector.

Okay.

Quickly.

Thank you.

All of the projects that we have going in Manchester when I was mayor involved the private sector.

So I'm not villainizing the private sector, they're an important part to making sure we are building the housing that we need in our state.

And I have the hands on experience of getting it done, but I think it's really important to clarify and, make sure that people understand, as you said, the scarcity of housing.

Blackstone is profiting off of that.

Kelly Ayotte is on their board.

She's profiting off of that.

And we need a governor who is in this to help the residents of, you know, like, well, first of all, we can't trust what she's saying.

Well, first of all, independent fact checkers, when she put an ad up that talked about my board service, basically said that what she said was inaccurate, especially on losing jobs.

On jobs.

So you remain on the Blackstone.

So you're correct.

Yes.

And I will get off that board, obviously.

And anything else to serve as the governor of New Hampshire.

And you know what?

That private sector experience is actually going to help New Hampshire, along with my private my governor, government experience as a U.S. senator.

Okay, we're going to move on.

And Marie has a question.

Let's move on to abortion.

Senator Ayotte you have said that you will not support any efforts to further restrict abortion rights beyond our current law, which bans most abortions after 24 weeks.

Would your support, continue the civil and criminal penalties?

Do you support keeping that in the current law?

And would you add exceptions for rape and incest in our law?

Well, Annmarie, first of all, I believe that our current law really is a consensus of people in New Hampshire.

The Supreme Court returned this issue back to the states up to six months of pregnancy.

A woman can obtain an abortion for any reason, whether that's rape, incest, any reason.

I've always had I've always supported exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother in the last three months.

So if there's a medical emergency or if, God forbid, there's something wrong with the baby, a woman can still obtain an abortion.

Now, obviously, if there are other issues that come up with the law that need to be addressed, of course I'm willing to address them, but I would not allow anything more restrictive in our state, and that's really important.

I've said that from day one.

The minute I got in a Republican primary, I said that that law is what I support and that I would veto any further restrictions and would you veto, the elimination of the criminal or civil penalties if that reached your desk?

Well, I would have to look at it.

I haven't heard that being an issue for, physicians in our state.

But I do not want anything more restrictive.

And if there were any issues with respect to doctors, I would address it.

And just as a follow, as a U.S. senator, you voted to cut Planned Parenthood's funding for non abortion, care such as cancer screenings and birth control.

And you vowed to do the same as governor, and you said you would look for alternative providers to provide that kind of care to lower income granite Staters.

Now the state has looked for those providers and not found them.

So how would it change if you were a governor?

Well, in the United States Senate, I had very strong bipartisan record, and I really focus on women's health issues, whether it was working on expanding access to mammograms when the federal government tried to restrict it for with Barbara mikulski or, pregnancy discrimination with Senator Shaheen.

So I would make sure that we have access on these issues.

In fact, the community health centers are enhancing their services in the state, other providers, we will make sure that we have a strong network of preventative health care for women.

And I will increase funding for that.

We'll also make sure there's access to contraception in the Senate.

I also introduced legislation to allow for over-the-counter contraception for women.

Okay.

And, Mayor Craig, you have said, you're committed to repealing the abortion law, but you're also called for Medicaid to cover abortions and to require private insurers do the same.

You know, given the ideological divides on this issue, how do you get that done?

You know, I believe that abortion is health care.

And if a woman needs an abortion, she should have access to that health care, no matter if she can afford it or not.

New Hampshire is the only state in New England where Medicaid does not cover abortion, and I think that is something that needs to change.

We need to be doing everything we can, to both protect and expand reproductive health care in New Hampshire.

You know, you said it, Kelly Ayotte, voted against or voted for a national abortion ban against funding Planned Parenthood.

And if she's governor, she would continue to defund Planned Parenthood.

She shepherded Neil Gorsuch through the Supreme Court process and then celebrated when Roe v Wade was overturned.

She sent it herself when she entered the Republican primary, all of a sudden, her mind changed on this because she knows that this is important to voters in New Hampshire.

We cannot trust what she is saying right now.

We need to make sure that we have a governor who will protect and expand reproductive health care in New Hampshire, and that is my priority.

And I'll just give you a chance to follow up.

Now, the National abortion ban was at 20 weeks, I believe.

That's when I was five months, briefly, our current law with exceptions.

After those five months, the current law is six months in New Hampshire and obviously with exceptions in the last three months.

And I believe that this issue should be decided by the states, New Hampshire decided this and, that for me, I firmly support the law.

That is what I've said from day one in this campaign.

I will veto anything more restrictive, that is sent to my desk.

And I believe it's a consensus.

And one of your jobs as governor is to bring people together around difficult issues and respect the consensus of the state.

And I do, and just want to follow up for you, Mayor Craig.

You've have, raised an issue with crisis pregnancy centers.

They counsel women away from the abortion, care and you've said you want to require those centers to clearly disclose their missions.

And the U.S. Supreme Court struck down similar regulations in California on a First Amendment grounds.

So how is this legally defensible in your mind?

I just think it's very important that women who are going to seek counsel from those entities understand where they are going, and that they're only going to receive part of the information that they need.

So I will work within our state to make sure, obviously, we are abiding by the laws.

But again, I think it's very, very critical that women understand what is available to them and that they're only getting half of the story when they visit those entities.

I've also called for, an entity within the Department of Health and Human Services that is focused on reproductive health care.

So there is a place within the state that has comprehensive information, for women and families to access the truth when it comes to this.

Thank you.

Back to you, Josh.

We're going to move to immigration.

Senator, at all campaign long, you've called for a ban on so-called sanctuary city policies here in New Hampshire.

Bills have been proposed in New Hampshire to do just that.

And when they get debated in Concord, police chiefs from some of our largest communities have said getting local police more involved in federal immigration enforcement would be a bad idea.

That might compromise public safety and harm efforts to build relationships with immigrant communities.

Why do you believe police chiefs who have those concerns are wrong?

Well, you know, certainly I've worked with many of those police chiefs.

And in this race, having been attorney general and a murder prosecutor, I'm going to have the endorsement of, six, police unions, including the New Hampshire troopers.

You know, I my concern is this if you create a dynamic where the local police are not going to, pass along information to the federal authorities, that creates an unsafe situation.

And there have been multiple examples across the nation, where that's happened, and the results haven't been good.

So I just disagree with them on this piece that the most important piece is that open communication and enforcement of our laws at both the federal and state level, and that the state is safer by not allowing sanctuary cities.

I mean, do you do you believe that you're thinking on on immigration policy has has changed over time?

I've asked that question because of your support as a senator for the Gang of Eight immigration bill, which cleared the Senate, failed in the House, as you know.

And one thing that that bill did I mean, it increased a lot of security, but it also created a path for citizenship for people who arrived here illegally.

That's a that's a that's a polic you no longer endorse.

Why?

Well, actually, Josh, I think that, my philosophy on immigration has been the same.

I'm a supporter of legal immigration.

I always have been.

I think all of us can trace our history to some extent, probably of as being a legal immigrant.

And that's important for our country.

But I've always been against illegal immigration.

And in fact, that bill that you referenced in the United States Senate, that doubled the amount of fencing, it doubled the amount of Border Patrol allowing technology like drones to be used.

There was quite a bit of border security in that, in that bill, and that bill where I disagreed.

I don't view that bill as amnesty, because that bill required people to get in the back of the line, pay a fine, learn English, have a job here, and created a situation where we wouldn't have more illegal immigration going forward.

You still think those would be reasonable?

Policies to have?

Those are federal decisions to make.

My job as governor is to make sure the state, remains safe.

And certainly it'll be a welcoming state for legal immigration.

But we're going to make sure that we're not a sanctuary state, that we don't go the way, frankly, of Massachusetts, that has spent $1 billion housing illegal immigrants.

We have our own housing needs, even for our veterans here.

So that's just my job as governor is really we should keep the state safe when it comes to illegal immigration.

Okay, mayor Craig, I want to pick up on something that senator just mentioned.

You have testified against, so-called sanctuary, a ban on so-called sanctuary policies at the state House, citing some of the concerns of law enforcement on this front.

We have, as the senator referenced, seen what's happened in Massachusetts, where the tab for taxpayers due to migrants has been steep hundreds of millions of dollars over the past year would, in New Hampshire on your watch, risk facing a similar situation?

And if not, why?

Absolutely not.

So New Hampshire is not a sanctuary state and it would not be a sanctuary state when I am governor.

You know, you mentioned going to Concord.

I was with my police chief and other police chiefs, advocating for, as you talked about, making sure that there is trust within law enforcement and our local communities.

And again, I get back to the importance of trust, not only in this instance but in this election.

I trust our local communities to put policies in place to keep, the cities and towns safe.

That's what I support.

And New Hampshire would not be a sanctuary state when I'm governor.

Massachusetts has very different laws than we do in terms of having to house people.

We don't have that in New Hampshire.

And again, we'll be doing everything we can, to keep our communities safe.

And as governor, I'll provide the resources and support to law enforcement to ensure that happens.

What one policy the Governor Sununu proposed and the legislature adopted regarding border is affecting our northern border.

And, you know, he created, something called the Northern Border Alliance, which would boost security along the state's 58 mile border with Canada.

I think there was $1.5 million earmarked for that purpose.

This is that is that a program you think is worthwhile and would continue as governor, Mayor Craig?

Yeah, I think security I know security of our northern border is a federal issue.

And so I would work with our federal delegation to make sure that we have the funding necessary to get that done, and would work with local law enforcement to ensure that our communities at the northern border have the resources that they need to keep them safe.

I don't believe that that should be on the backs of local taxpayers.

I also think you don't.

You don't.

You wouldn't support a continuation of any state expenditure on that.

That's a federal.

I would work with the federal delegation to make sure we have the funding for that.

I think it's important to note, too, there was a solution to all of this with a bipartisan, border security plan that would have funded 1500 border security officers, would have protected our border and would have stopped fentanyl from coming into our communities.

Kelly Ayotte caved to Donald Trump and didn't support that bipartisan bill that would have provided a solution and kept communities safe.

Instead, she wanted a talking point to continue on this.

We had a solution in place.

So we're going to let the Senator respond First of all, this is I don't know why she's talking about federal legislation.

We're running for the governor of New Hampshire.

And the question becomes, how do we keep New Hampshire safe?

And that means our northern border, having been up there, multiple times, talked to law enforcement up there, been up to the border, been up to a farm right on the border.

They're concerned about the increase in illegal immigration.

They need more resources for communication system up there so they can communicate among local, state, federal officers that's being allocated now.

They also the increased enforcements they'll tell you have been effective in that other been fewer.

They're seeing it on the ground there over New Hampshire versus other states in.

So you think the spending that's taking place so there's actually led to zero, listen, this is what I hear This is what I hear from being up there.

And I was just, you know, talked to law enforcement over the weekend when I was up at the Berlin River fire.

I was there with the sheriff.

Others.

That's what I'm hearing from the people on the ground there.

And so I support Governor Sununu's efforts there and the legislators efforts.

But as a as a role as a governor is, of course, we can't have a state where we have inconsistent policies among communities on sanctuary policies, because that will lead to a sanctuary state.

And that's where we're going to move towards.

Craig and I disagree public safety issue that is guns.

Annemarrie has some questions.

Mayor Craig, you've called for several, different types of gun regulations and, background checks, waiting period.

Red flag laws, those have repeatedly failed in Concord, without Democrats and running both chambers.

If it comes back, how do you get that through?

Yeah.

This is what other specific things would you do?

So as I'm traveling around the state, I am hearing from residents, especially parents, when they're dropping their kids off at schools, that they're concerned about the safety of their kids.

And I feel strongly that we need to be addressing this as a state.

And it is something that I would work with both sides of the aisle on.

You know, my kids grew up, grew up doing, active shooter drills.

Now, my daughter is a teacher, and she's teaching kids to do that.

It's really disconcerting.

And so I just want to be clear.

I am not talking about taking guns away from responsible gun users.

I am talking about making sure that we are in place to keep guns out of the hands of someone who may hurt themselves or hurt someone else.

And this is a situation where, again, we have to have open communication and build trust to make sure that we're doing what's right for residents in the state of New Hampshire.

And this is another situation where we cannot trust Kelly Ayotte.

But what specifically will you do if you can't get we saw a Democrat or Republican partner on the background check law that did not get through.

So one of the things you do, one of the things that I did as mayor, is worked with our local police department, and we put forward a gun violence prevention strategy.

And we could do that in communities across our state.

So if we can't pass common sense gun violence prevention laws, then I would work at the local level to ensure we are doing everything possible to keep our residents and communities safe.

When Kelly Ayotte was a senator, she was after Sandy hook and 20 children were shot.

And I'm going to get to that with her.

I'll she was the only senator to vote against universal background checks I have.

That's my next question for her.

But I did want to, just very quickly 30s how do you scale what you did in Manchester City, the North Country or the western part of the state?

It's it's something that we can do very easily.

It's just sharing information.

And that's one of the things that's very valuable from coming from a local community.

You know, in Manchester we have very often implemented evidence based programs and they've scaled across the state.

And this is something that we can do.

It's sharing information and making sure, again, we're doing the best that we can and keeping residents safe.

And Senator Ayotte a state hospital guard was killed last year by someone who should not have been able to buy a gun, given his psychiatric commitments in the past.

Right now, we don't participate in the background check system that would have flagged that.

Should New Hampshire be participating in that system?

Well, let me just clarify.

Anne-Marie, in the United States Senate, I actually worked on this very issue, to work to strengthen the background check issue for some states, like New Hampshire, that weren't putting the mental health records in.

This is the one piece where New Hampshire is not participating on the mental health records, because already under federal law right now, it's prohibitive to have a firearm for the individual who, because he had been found a danger to himself or or others and had been committed in the state hospital.

I believe we should fix that in New Hampshire.

I also supported legislation when I was a senator to incentivize states to fix that, hoping New Hampshire would do the same.

And as governor, I will bring people together on both sides of the aisle, because those records should be in the system.

And we should make sure that if you've been adjudicated, you've been committed to be a danger or yourself to others, that you don't have that access to the firearms.

But also in addition to that, there should be a due process mechanism, because we don't want to discourage people from seeking mental health treatment.

So if you're on this because you've you've sought mental health treatment and you've had an acute situation, you should also have a method to get off that, a fair and, you know, method that will allow you so that you can still be empowered.

I know that your mental health treatment is not something that's denied you your constitutional rights.

And just a quick follow up, you did cite that due process concern when you as a senator and I did.

That was what in the legislation I supported.

That was one of the issues.

And our most recent law that nearly made it through, it was defeated in the Senate, did have that piece in there.

So what does it look like for you?

Do you push your own party to get that through?

I think that should be fixed.

So I would bring people together.

I don't know that you push people, but I was one of the most bipartisan senators.

I also happen to be an attorney general who worked for a Republican governor and a Democrat governor for the state on behalf of the state.

So I believe it's really bringing people to the table to find that common ground.

And that legislation was there.

I'd like to bring people back to the table because we should fix that for New Hampshire.

Thank you.

All right.

Believe it or not, we've reached halfway.

Almost.

So, we're going to take a short break.

This is the Granite State News Collaborative and NHPR's candidate forum for New Hampshire governor.

We will be back in a moment.

You are watching a special presentation of the New Hampshire Votes 2024 Candidate Forums, a project of the Granite State News Collaborative.

Partners.

Welcome back to the Granite State News Collaborative Governors Forum, hosted by NH PR in partnership with New Hampshire PBS.

We're talking with former U.S.

Senator Kelly Ayotte the Republican nominee and Democratic nominee, former Manchester Mayor Joyce Craig.

I'm Josh Rogers of NH PR with my colleague, reporter Annemarie Timmins.

Let's continue now.

People facing mental health crisis in the state, Mayor Craig, are still languishing in emergency rooms awaiting care.

The state is under court order to fix this problem.

Has a plan to do so, but is expensive.

And the next governor is not going to have as much money.

So how do you make sure we're meeting that, you know, legal requirement?

It's a very good question and something that is of utmost importance, to me.

And I know to residents in our state, we need to increase the number of beds for people in our state that are in crisis.

It's absolutely critical.

You know, in Manchester, I partnered with the Manchester Mental Health Association and we did help with funding, and, a new facility in Manchester.

And I would look for, funding, wherever I could to make sure we're doing everything we can to help people.

One of the things we need to consider is increasing the Medicaid rates, because right now, what I'm hearing from these community partners is that, they are providing a lot of services for free, and it's putting their, their businesses at risk.

We need to cut the red tape at the state level as well, in terms of reimbursing for the services that they're providing.

You know, and one of the things that we need to think about, we did it during Covid, for college students, for example, that live in New Hampshire, but go to school in Massachusetts or another state, they were able to keep their mental health service provider through that transition after Covid that stopped.

And so they have to have a doctor in New Hampshire, and then they have to have a doctor in Massachusetts.

And to me, that's not common sense.

We need to make sure we are addressing the needs of people first, using common sense and making sure we are helping people, as much as we can.

One of the programs that I implemented as mayor, was a, a visit nurse's visit for a woman after she has a baby in the hospital and at home.

And it's making sure they're making the connections early on to the services that we have.

So it's not only addressing the needs of people now, but making sure we're also focusing on prevention, early on.

And just want to clarify.

So you would support we saw unprecedented rate raise in Medicaid rates this year.

You would continue to increase those.

We need to focus on increasing them.

Yes.

Okay.

Senator, ask same question to you.

How do we meet our legal obligations under the court order to not have people languishing in emergency rooms with less money than Governor Sununu has now?

Yeah, this is obviously an important issue.

And, unfortunately, recently, and the solution health had a proposal for 144 new beds that has fallen through in Londonderry.

So looking at that type of proposal again, hopefully we can get people back to the table, on things like that, because that was a combination of private sector resources along with state federal resources.

So we look for creative ways to make sure we're doing that.

Also the New Hampshire State Hospital piece as well.

But but we have a really big gap, not just in the acute care of those waiting in hospital rooms.

I know that there also needs to be an issue addressing, you know, with the uncompensated care, with the hospitals, what piece of that will focus on mental health issues.

And so I think that's important to bring everyone to the table on that.

The hospitals, the mental health providers, to try to come up with some resolution to make sure that, we're serving people in the hospital, especially our critical access hospitals, but also, those that are in need of mental health services.

I agree with Mayor Craig on reciprocity, meaning that, the legislature passed allowing more reciprocity, for example, of licensing, but also of care.

It does make sense that especially since we're not the only one facing a shortage on mental health providers, that that people can rely across state lines for that.

In addition to that, I'd love to leverage our community colleges and the university system when it comes to scholarships, loan forgiveness.

If you work in New Hampshire for five years in mental health because without providers, even with those acute beds, if we put resources in it, we still need more mental health providers.

So that's something I think we we need to work together on for the state as a whole to improve our mental health system in the Senate.

I also worked on this issue across party lines on issues like mental health, first aid, to make sure that we were, you know, getting that kind of, training.

Not only through, you know, for mental health providers, but in our schools, so that those early warning signs, and we could get people the help they needed So let's stick with health care and then drill down a little bit on primary care and access to that, particularly in rural parts of the state.

That's a real challenge.

Primary care in particular is hard for many Granite Staters to obtain.

Lack of providers is a major issues of.

Senator, how would you go about aiming to boost providers in rural areas?

I think, Josh, it's very important that we obviously, have full access as we think about some of the challenges with I just mentioned, our critical access hospitals in different rural, rural parts of the state.

So to, to boost primary care, we really have to be working with our community health centers and making sure, that they have the support and resources.

Also looking, with, for example, Dartmouth-Hitchcock, the medical school.

There's some partnerships there already establishing, in that area, to make sure that we're getting that training of those who are training to become physicians and allowing them to not only, practice as residents in New Hampshire, but to hopefully entice them to stay in New Hampshire in our rural areas.

So this is something we have to get everyone around the table on it.

Well, some of the private hospitals, along with the community health centers and then the state health and Human Services, I mean, on that on that front, Senator, you know, we've had hospital mergers in the lakes region and, you know, proposed cuts to services, most recently at Exeter Hospital.

And they've left many patients worried about losing access to care they need.

You know, this is overseen by the attorney general's office.

You were attorney general.

Do you think the state needs to do more to and maybe change the way that some of these mergers when, when when they run through the Department of Justice?

Josh, I think it's really important that those, those vettings are done very carefully.

Especially as we think about, for example, I know the AG has pending right now and, I'm certainly not going to get involved in the legal issues in that, but, CMC and we don't want CMC to close because of the access that would deny to people in Manchester.

But that review is important because when you have the merger of, for example, of a nonprofit and a profit system, what, what is the going to be the fulfillment of the mission?

And I think those are core questions the the charitable trust unit should ask.

And if promises are made in those, they should be held to them of whatever, is made in that process for approval.

People need to be held to those promises somewhere.

We've heard from Senator about some of her ideas for improving primary care in rural parts of the state.

You know, you made commitments about using your governorship to enhance access.

How do you go about doing that, particularly when it comes to rural parts of the state?

So one of the things.

Well, a number of ways, but I am hearing this as I'm traveling around the state, especially in the North Country, you know, they don't have access to public transportation.

And transportation is a huge issue when it's coming to when it comes to accessing healthy, quality health care.

And we need to be doing everything we can to make sure individuals have access to quality health care.

So looking at ways that we can increase, public transportation or transportation for individuals, one of the ways that a hospital is, providing more access is actually sending medical professionals out to do home visits.

And what they're finding is by providing that preventative care at the home, they're seeing less need for people to come into the hospitals.

So again, let's look at the programs, and the data and see what's working and see what we can make sure we can scale throughout our state.

I had a roundtable with medical professionals this past Friday.

One of the things that they specifically said was, we need more, providers, which we know one of the issues is housing, as we know, the lack of affordable housing, but too restrictive laws as it pertains to reproductive freedom.

And, you know, with someone like Kelly Ayotte, who's running for governor, who supports a national abortion ban and won't fund Planned Parenthood, that is causing issues to individuals having access to, I want to to let Senator respond briefly that we've got a lot of above other topics, but what do you have to say to the claim that you're pushing, supportive of a national abortion?

That's just false.

Because I've said very clearly, I support New Hampshire's decision on our law.

That is up to six months of, pregnancy freedom to obtain an abortion for any reason and exceptions in the last three months.

And I'll veto anything more restrictive this is a New Hampshire decision.

It's not a federal decision like post Dobbs.

I mean, has your thinking on this change because, like, you know, I could cite speeches you've made in the past.

You're missing.

I've always used it has talked differently about them now.

So I'm just I have always clearly said I thought this was a state decision.

When the Supreme Court returned this to the state's New Hampshire and the legislature came together and made a decision.

And I respect that.

And that's where the role should be.

And New Hampshire is obviously, in a position where they'll do what's the right thing for the people of New Hampshire.

But is it fair to say your beliefs on topics regarding abortion?

Have they changed since when you were a U.S. senator, when you ran for U.S. senator or supported Josh?

I don't know that to be any clearer.

The minute I got in this race.

I think that New Hampshire's law is a consensus.

I support that.

I respect that my job as governor is to bring people together around hard questions.

And New Hampshire has made a decision here, and I will veto anything more restrictive.

Okay.

I'm going to continue looking back for a the current abortion ban that we have in place right now holds physicians criminally and civilly accountable, and that is causing an issue right now for medical professionals wanting to come to New Hampshire.

And we need to recognize that.

And in this debate today, Kelly Ayotte has said she's not, willing to do away with that in the current law.

And if we're talking about access to health care for people around our state, we have to understand that that is causing an issue of medical professionals coming to New Hampshire treating abortion.

At length today, I want to move on, to questions about public service.

And, you know, Senator, we're going to continue looking back for a moment as far as you go back in 2016, which is the last time you ran for office, feels like a long time ago.

You remember being in the studio?

You know, you said you couldn't support Donald Trump for president after the release of the Access Hollywood tape.

In essence, you said that you were taking a stand against conduct you considered assault, and that you wanted to be sure your daughter understood that taking that stand was more important to you than winning any election.

You now support the election of Donald Trump, and that's after a jury found him liable for sexual assault.

So how do you square how do you explain that change of thinking?

Josh, first of all, our daughter Kate, now is a cadet at the United States Air Force Academy.

She's a sophomore there.

And, certainly I've talked to her about these issues, but in terms of this presidential election, I'm looking at the records of when President Trump was in office in terms of we were in a position where energy costs were better, inflation was better.

It was a better economic situation for the people of New Hampshire versus under, the Biden-Harris administration.

And that's what I'm looking at.

But as governor of the state of New Hampshire, my job will be to fight for New Hampshire.

Whoever is president of the United States.

The job of governor is if they're doing something good for New Hampshire, regardless of party, you work with them.

And if they're doing something bad for New Hampshire, whether, it's a Democrat or a Republican president, you should fight them with everything you have.

And that's what I will do as governor.

Okay, mayor, I want to turn to you.

You've said if elected, you would hope to run New Hampshire as you ran Manchester as mayor.

But you spent a lot of time, including last night campaigning with Massachusetts Governor Moore Healey.

How much do you see Massachusetts as a model for New Hampshire?

And if you don't, why are you logging so much time with Governor Healey and her financial backers?

You spent day upon day after day, seemingly campaigning with her.

Why?

Yeah.

So I'm a fourth generation resident of New Hampshire, raised my family here.

This is my home.

I'm running for governor to ensure we are doing everything we can to strengthen our local communities and create opportunities for residents in New Hampshire.

I have been focused on making sure we are tackling our state's biggest challenges the housing crisis, decreasing energy costs, making sure we are bringing good paying jobs to our communities, and protecting reproductive freedom.

Those are the things that I made progress on in Manchester, and they're the same things that I am focused on as we move forward into this race.

So what should we read into the amount of time you spent campaigning with Governor Haley?

It's it's a friend of mine.

You know, just like other people have friends from out of state.

I haven't spent an excessive amount of time with her.

It's it has nothing to do with who I am or what I'm running for.

I am running for governor of New Hampshire to make sure we are focusing on addressing our most pressing issues in the state.

And again, as mayor, I made progress on doing that.

And I look forward to helping every community in our state making progress on those.

Okay, Annemarie, I want to turn to marijuana.

Senator, at every neighboring state and Canada has legalized recreational marijuana.

Polls consistently show that Granite Staters support, this.

And Governor Sununu, who you say you want to emulate, has said he would support the right marijuana law, but you oppose the idea.

Why?

Well, Annemarie, you asked us early, earlier about our mental health and one of the deep concerns I have about, legalizing marijuana is the impact that, marijuana has on youth mental health.

And in fact, the studies have shown there was a recent article in the New York Times about the addictive nature of it and the difficulties people are having now, with it.

But also the studies show between the ages of 15 and 25 that is actually increases in incidence of anxiety, schizophrenia, mental health issues.

And I don't want to add that to the mix with challenges we already have on mental health.

Also, I'm concerned about our quality of life when it comes to issues like road safety.

States that have legalized it have seen an increase in traffic deaths, and we haven't yet figured out how to measure it in the same way that we do alcohol on the roads for our police.

And I have yet to meet someone in recovery who thinks we should legalize marijuana as we take on, you know, the challenges we have with with addiction in the state.

And thank you, Mayor Craig.

You favor marijuana legalization.

Could you describe in specifics the model law what your model looks like?

How much revenue do you think it would, generate, and why you are confident that legalization would benefit the state?

So, Annemarie, as you mentioned, New Hampshire is the only state, that has not legalize cannabis.

And I am supportive of of legalizing it.

The vast majority of residents in our state are supportive of this.

I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of residents.

So I think it is, you know, time, to do that.

I'm supportive of a small business model that supports our small businesses, our our local farmers, and that provides local control as well.

I think that's really important.

And provides training to law enforcement and others.

As we roll this out, that would be part of this.

You know, I, it obviously has to be properly regulated and labeled.

And I would suggest that the revenues that we, receive from this be put toward public education and affordable housing.

Two things that we need to focus on, over the next few years, just briefly, do you have a ballpark of how much that would.

It could vary.

But we'll see as we move forward.

So no estimate at this moment.

Okay.

Thanks.

Josh.

We're going to move to the environment and energy.

Mayor.

New Hampshire has seen an increase and in severe weather events, you know, in over the past decade, flooding on the seacoast, road and bridge washouts, really statewide.

How well prepared do you think cities and towns are to address changes in the climate and, and does the state need to do more to, to serve those?

Yes.

Josh.

So, you know, as mayor I took climate change and rising energy costs seriously.

We built the largest municipal solar array in the state, saving our residents money.

And because of that solar array and other initiatives we put in place, we were able to cut carbon emissions by 60%.

But to your point, what we're seeing are these once in a lifetime storms happening now, year after year after year.

And we are seeing the state, fix roads and bridges and, walkways year after year after year.

So we need to start thinking differently in terms of addressing these storms and making sure that we are building resilient, sustainable, infrastructure going forward.

And, as we are building and moving forward with infrastructure ahead, knowing, what's coming, make sure we're investing in that.

And, Senator, under Governor Sununu.

You know, he's talked up the promise of of offshore wind power and how that might benefit New Hampshire.

He has vetoed other proposals that would expand renewable energy here.

What would your policy look like as governor, particularly when it comes to renewable energy?

Well, Josh, my philosophy on energy is really and all the above philosophy.

Our energy prices are too high.

In New Hampshire and families are struggling with that, especially in the context of inflation.

It becomes even harder.

And so as governor, I want to make sure that we really are taking that our all the above approach.

Whether it is, natural gas, but also included in that, renewables with hydrogen, excuse me.

Hydropower, solar or other renewables.

I think that we need to be doing just more energy for the state as a whole.

But I also want to look to new technologies, make sure we're positioning the state as we think about, new technologies like hydrogen.

There's a project new hydrogen up in the North country or a small modular nuclear, power, because that is the nuclear the future where they're smaller.

I mean, it's far smaller amounts is small.

Well, I think if you don't think about these things now and you don't look ahead and you don't position the state on a regulatory basis to adopt new technologies, you'll be the last of the table on things like that.

So you know, being making sure that we're we're really getting ahead of these things so that we can adopt new technologies that not only protect the environment but produce energy.

Obviously, that we can produce our own energy rather than being dependent on others.

So that's important.

And then when it comes to transportation projects and things like that, we do want to make sure they're resilient.

When we have weather incidences, we know the seacoast has suffered other areas of the state, the North Country recently.

And that's important as we think about, putting our transportation infrastructures and, dollars into projects.

Annemarie, let's turn to education funding.

Senator Ayotte, New Hampshire's highest court is poised to again take up the question of how the state pays for public education.

But we know that stark funding inequities, exist in many local districts.

So as governor, what steps of any would you take to address that?

Well, I certainly, I'm the product of public schools.

Our public schools are very important.

My my husband, Joe, teaches middle school math now, and so making sure that our kids, unfortunately, in certain areas, especially after Covid, we're behind in math and science and reading and some of those fundamentals.

So strengthening our core curriculum in those areas to me is important in terms of our standards backing up our teachers, making sure they have that support.

But I also believe that, you know, for some kids, especially our lower, lower income kids, having giving them the opportunity, for example, to use the education freedom accounts for the state resources to be in the venue that is best for them to allow every child to succeed, because every child learns differently, when it comes to education funding, I don't think this should be sorted out by the courts.

I really think this should be decided by the legislature.

In the past biennium, there were more resources put in, for education, particularly public education, which is important.

And also our university system, that is where the effort should be.

And when it comes to the communities that need it the most, I support targeting aid to those communities because there are some communities that have different challenges.

And we do know that something like 85% of students are in public school.

So how do you target that aid?

Well, certainly.

I think that from my perspective, it should be on recruitment and retention of teachers.

Some places have harder time, recruiting and retaining teachers and making sure that, those state dollars, flow, you know, certainly additional resources to those communities that are having more challenges if you have a larger population of free and reduced lunch.

You know, you have different challenges in terms of recruitment and retention of teachers.

That's important.

We want everyone in the state to succeed and to have a really good education.

And Mayor Craig, what would you do to address these kinds of funding inequities?

Between school districts?

And then given the budget constraints, the next governor will have, how do you pay for it?

Yeah.

So I just want to reiterate, I first got involved in public service when I ran for school board.

I know that, you know, a public public school education is absolutely critical to a thriving community and creates opportunities for our kids and their futures.

And as mayor of Manchester, I also served as their chairman of the school board in the city of Manchester.

And I did sign on to the carnival lawsuit because I believe every student, no matter where they live in our state, should have access to quality public education.

I do not support this voucher scheme that is taking millions of dollars away from our public schools and putting it toward private and religious schools.

My opponent wants to make this universal that would essentially gut public education and increase our local property taxes.

That's unacceptable.

I will work with the legislature and make sure we're doing everything we can to make sure we are adequately funding our public schools so that students, again, no matter where they live in our state, have access to public education.

How are you going to pay for it?

For that is my priority.

Is public schools, not this voucher scheme.

I what do you do?

What do you do to to the people who say they're benefiting from what you call the voucher scheme, you're going to take that away from them.

We could sunset it.

We'll figure out a way.

But again, the priority has to be funding public education.

That is the bedrock of who we are.

And right now, for decades, our state has not been funding public education and are using that as an excuse for public schools not meeting the needs of students.

Imagine if we funded our public schools, we wouldn't need this unregulated voucher scheme that exists right now.

You know, I know being the chairman of the school board in Manchester, special education and transportation are the biggest cost drivers right now to a school district.

And we need to be doing everything we can to meet the needs of every single student.

Okay, believe it or not, we've reached the end of the line here.

We've got a lot more questions we could have asked.

I regret not being able to ask some with Annmarie, but we want to thank both of you.

Senator Kelly Ayotte and Mayor Joyce Craig, for taking the time to be here today.

And thanks to New Hampshire PBS for partnering with us.

And thanks to journalists from the Granite State News Collaborative, including the Concord Monitor, the Daily Sun of Laconia, Manchester Ink Link who helped produce these forums.

I'm Josh Rogers, along with Annmarie Timmins.

We want to thank you for joining us today.

This has been a special presentation of the New Hampshire Votes 2024 Candidate Forums, a project of the Granite State News Collaborative Partners and HHPR Manchester Ink link.

Laconia Daily Sun, NH Bulletin, Concord Monitor and NHPBS.