Today we're going to take you to a place you've probably never been so stick around.

You too.

[laughter] [music playing] You know, every time I pass through Franconia Notch on the highway, I can't help but look up at the massive cliffs on both sides of the road and think, oh, man, could I?

Nowadays I think how could I have?

Well, imagining is fun, but today we're going to give you the real thing.

We're going to hike-- we're going to climb from the base of Echo Crag all the way to the summit.

Now, when I say "we," I mean "they," Laura and John Sykes, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Nice to be here.

And you're going to do this today and show us how it's done.

Ah, yes, we are.

Not how it's not done.

Right.

Not how it's not done, yes.

Good.

Yes.

That's great.

You've been climbing long, have you?

Yes, 40 years.

And together?

Not together.

I've been climbing about 20 years, I think, or so.

Together about five years.

Together we've been climbing together about five years.

Yeah.

So you trust each other then?

Definitely.

Very much so, yeah.

Good.

That's as it should be.

Yeah.

OK. [music playing] The cliffs Echo Crag are a short hike in from the trailhead.

John and Laura are veteran rock climbers.

For them the trek is easy.

For me, eh, well, the boulder field makes it interesting.

[music playing] Whoever built these steps into the landscape, I thank you.

[music playing] They put us at the foot of the cliffs.

This is what's known as Echo Crag.

It's as though this place was made just for climbers.

There are 48 walls along the cliffs face, so take your pick.

I'm told that when it comes to climbing, age doesn't matter.

Uh-huh?

That's one of the things that I think is really, really neat about climbing is that I've come out and I've seen three- and four-year-olds.

And I-- one of my friends that I learned to climb from is 82 now and he's still climbing.

He taught me how and now I lead for him.

So I think it's for all ages and I think it's for all levels.

Some people never climb higher and that's OK. That's what I think is fun about it is.

You can find easy climbs that you can do or you can push yourself as hard as you want.

[music playing] There was a time when I climbed.

I enjoyed the experience.

[music playing] Today I'm happy to keep both feet on the ground.

Keke and I will encourage John and Laura.

[music playing] And so this is the climbing gear that we use.

And these are our cams, so they're all different sizes.

Before they begin their ascent, let me show you where we are.

Echo Crag is in Franconia Notch State Park.

Drive North past the big walls of Cannon to the west side of the Notch.

Take exit 34C and turn right toward the Governor Gallen Memorial.

[music playing] This is a black diamond harness.

It's designed with a wide swami for more comfort if you're doing big wall climbing [inaudible] climbing, that type of thing.

Yep.

John's a veteran rock climber.

He's been at it for more than 40 years.

When he's not hanging from a rock wall, he swings a hammer.

He restores and renovates homes.

Laura's is an accomplished climber too.

Her day job as academic vice president and dean of faculty at Colby Sawyer College.

They met, by chance, at a trailhead.

John is well-known on the climbing world.

Laura happened to recognize him.

She introduced herself and he passed along his phone number.

So she started calling and she called every weekend.

And she wanted to go out and climb because she likes to do traditional climbing, which is what I like to do.

[music playing] As it turns out, Laura and John's paths crossed many years ago.

Before they climbed together, they rode the school bus together.

[music playing] Last summer as I was looking at Facebook one morning and I saw this picture that one of my friends that I had been in second grade with.

We were good friends, we were neighbors when I was in second grade-- Carol Palmer.

--Carol Palmer.

And she posted this picture on Facebooks of the first and second grade class in Sutton Central School.

Sutton Elementary.

So I picked up and I was like-- I brought it over to John, like, oh, honey, look this is a picture of me in second grade.

And he goes, "oh yeah, that's me right beside you."

Yeah.

We had-- we knew that we'd been in high school together and middle school, but we had no idea that we'd been together back in second grade.

Yeah.

[music playing] Climbing rock walls seems like something you have to talk yourself into doing.

But there are people who need very little prodding.

[music playing] My humble beginnings where-- I was working down at Loon Mountain.

And a friend of mine, a guy named Chuck Whitman, he was-- been climbing for years, a lot of alpine stuff, and he happened to see me climbing up the outside of the building one day, climbing up onto the porch.

Instead of taking the stairs, I shimmied up the-- one of the post and get up and he asked me if I knew how to climb.

I said, well, I can climb that.

And he said, well, you want to go rock climb with me and I'm like, yeah, I'd love to.

Beauty.

So that was my first introduction with climbing real rock, with equipment.

John's come a long way since then.

He now writes guidebooks about climbing in New Hampshire.

Don't skip the early chapter.

It comes with a warning.

Your book-- I just looked at it this morning.

Yeah.

It's a manual for a whole bunch of climbs-- Yeah.

--here in the notches in New Hampshire.

Yeah, it covers the Western White Mountains from Crawford Notch, Zeland Valley, Franconia Notch, and Kinsman Notch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But at the very beginning you say, you really shouldn't be doing these these if you don't know what doing.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

So the average person is coming along and he says, I got this book, and it says we could climb this, and here's what we need, he shouldn't do that, right?

No.

When you use a guidebook, such as a rock climbing guidebook, the first thing you have to have is experience and-- to understand what a route description is for a climb in particular.

Yeah.

So you have to be able to look at the book and decipher where this route starts and then look at the climb and decide what you need for equipment to climb the route.

And if you're a layman who's never climbed before, you wouldn't be able to make heads or tails out of it.

Yeah, right.

So it requires some knowledge to be able to use a guidebook.

Yeah.

I think a guidebook doesn't tell you how to climb, it tells you where to climb.

Yeah.

Here we go.

Laura, you got me on?

I got you on.

OK.

I'm climbing.

Climb.

So you'd recommend this to everybody should-- who doesn't know anything about it should take a beginners course.

Oh, absolutely.

Like AMC or something?

AMC is one key area.

There's a lot of mountain guide services now that do just that, teach.

Mountain guide services are for anyone, beginners on up.

You'll be outdoors on the rocks with a guide.

They'll work with you on how to use ropes, anchors, and improve your climbing techniques.

So what I want to do now is try and figure out my first piece of protection, which if I was to fall, the protection would stop me from falling too far.

Nowadays, we have the indoor climbing gyms and so-- Oh, yeah.

--the sport has really grown exponentially because of these gyms.

But, unfortunately, indoor climbing gyms don't actually teach you how to climb outside.

They teach you how to climb inside on plastic holds, color-coordinated plastic holds.

and when you come out to the real rock, well, there isn't a green, blue, or red hold on the wall.

Yeah.

So this-- there's a bit of a disconnect there.

I put that in there and pinched off crack.

Give it a little yank to set it.

Put the draw under it, [inaudible] and that'll protect you.

Traditional climbing requires using protection that we place in the rock.

And these are called stoppers or are nuts.

And they're used in cracks-- to wedge into a crack.

[music playing] And, consequently, we're having some issues with that portion of it now, people coming outside to try and climb and they're not well versed on how to deal with that environment.

And these are called TCUs, Tiny Camming Units.

They're for micro cracks, but they will hold thousands of pounds and you-- your life depends on them.

So that's where guide services really come into play.

And I certainly recommend that if you're going to go out and try the real thing from the gym that you should certainly get a guide service or have a friend that has been climbing for a long time to go out with you.

It's vitally important.

What's really cool about this belay device is that at any time it locks, and I don't even have to have my hand on it, it's locked off, which is so unique compared to what we used to have for belay devices.

You could never take your hands off it or consider that.

With these you can do just that and a lot of times I'll get my phone out and take a picture with the camera on the phone of them coming up, which gives you that unique perspective.

You just sort of look for where does it look like I can get some sort of purchase.

So sometimes you look for it and when you look at-- and sometimes you feel it.

Sometimes you can't see up high enough to know-- like this.

I can't see around, so I'll feel it I'll be like, oh, that's OK, that's a good place.

And you look for places to put your feet.

Sometimes you can just move your foot up an inch and that will give you something else that you can reach with your hands.

So you just-- it's-- you look at it, and you feel it, and you take your time.

Don't rush it.

Sometimes people rush through and they get themselves in trouble because they get to a place where they don't know where the holes are and then they're skating around with their feet.

And you can only hang on so long with your arms because they're much smaller muscles than these are.

So you need to just take your time, relax into it, not be in a hurry, and just feel around until you feel comfortable enough to move.

Picking the right climbing partner is also important.

From what I've seen, John and Laura both chose well.

Sideways.

What's that?

Twist it sideways to get it loosened.

Here you go.

Now, when you climb together, it's just the two of you usually?

Well, it's either us too or our friend, Scott Lovell, comes with us.

Yeah.

But we also have a group of friends that we climb with regularly.

A guy named Randy Garcia, Dave Powers-- Chris Marks.

--Chris Marks, and a few others that come in here and there.

But-- I heard a lot of guys in there, and I don't hear any women's names there.

No.

It's always me.

Yeah.

Just Laura?

Yeah.

That's it?

I can hold my own, though.

[music playing] I think that women sometimes move better than men, particularly when they start to climb.

Because they learn how to balance, and move their feet better, and be smart about climbing, rather than try to muscle their way up because sometimes we don't have the strength to do that.

Even though I feel like I'm strong and sometimes I have to do really burly moves to get over things, I look around and try to figure out another way to do it.

There's often-- the men that I'm climbing with will pull up over something and I might not be able to do that, but I figure out how to do it differently.

I think there are a lot of really, really hard women climbers that climb really, really hard, hard climbs that I couldn't even think about.

So I think men and women can climb the same kind of climbs, but sometimes we figure out how to do it differently.

Believe me, Laura holds her own with the guys.

I dare say.

Yeah.

And if we're getting a little on the truckers end of things, she can go toe-to-toe with us, and [inaudible] [laughter] We thought maybe the thing was going to be a first ascent.

We got up to the first ledge about 70 feet up, near this cordelette there.

So they obviously did the first 70 feet.

And then we added another 30 feet to it.

So this is the social distancing variation.

[inaudible] go back.

And Laura is the third woman to climb it and go back, that we know of.

Last year was a breakthrough year for her.

She was following grade five, five plus ice, which is some of the hardest stuff in New England.

And she was doing it really well.

It was fun.

Yeah.

For the first year it was fun.

So ice rating's started.

And for the easiest ice ratings, it's like grade two.

Yeah.

And that's like walking up stairs.

And then grade three it gets a little steeper, and requires using both hands and feet.

Grade four, it's vertical sections of ice, and 20 to 30 foot vertical sections of ice, intermixed with a little lower angle stuff.

Grade five is just dead vertical ice.

And five plus is dead vertical and very serious, hard to protect.

You've got this, Johnny, no problem.

This video, shot by Laura, is of John on Echo Crag just down from where we're climbing today.

And it's a four plus probably, pretty difficult, and it's mixed climbing.

So in one section it goes from ice to pure rock.

Yeah.

You're dry tooling up, and the protection's not very good.

It requires a really solid head to climb it without-- A delicate touch.

Yeah, and on this occasion ice had formed down over this roof.

And I've been trying to do this free hanging dagger of ice for years.

And every time the ice was never quite solid enough.

But on this occasion, I went to try and do it.

And I was pulling through this roof system, about a 200 pound chunk of ice broke right off.

[clanking] [crash] And sailed down, and almost got my partner, Scott, who was belaying me.

And Laura was videoing it at the time.

So she captured that moment.

Wow.

And I stayed on to the ice as it fell off, and then continued trying to climb from that point on.

[laughter] Yeah, so-- I went around.

Yeah, she went around.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Help him move.

Get on your feet.

[inaudible] We laugh now, but climbing can be dangerous.

There are no soft landings out here.

And it is very dangerous.

Certain aspects of it, especially when we're doing first ascents, climbing something that's never been climbed before and trying to figure out how to do it safely, when sometimes you can't do it safely.

You have to kind of be a little bold about it.

But when we're doing that, it gets a little trickier, because I don't want her to see me get hurt.

And I don't want her to get hurt.

And so there's a fine line there.

There's also a really special bond that you develop with somebody who's on the other end of your climbing rope, because they do have your life in their hands.

Yeah.

And it's serious.

Yeah.

And it's fun.

I mean, it's fun to just be out.

I marvel all the time at John and his group of friends that know when to pick on each other.

You know, they're merciless with each other.

And then when they need it, then they really encourage them.

You know?

Yeah.

And it's just fun.

It's all good laughs, but it's all serious too, because there's always that underlying, you know, this is my life at stake doing this.

Perhaps it's a good thing while climbing to keep a bit of fear factor in your back pocket.

Intimidation can sometimes be a foe, but when you're one mistake away from falling it can also be a friend.

Oh, sure, sure.

There's certain kind of climbs that-- for instance, John really likes these roof and overhanging kind of climbs.

They're the safest kind of falls that you can take, because when you come off you just come into the air.

I'm terrified of things like that.

I just don't like them.

My stomach goes like this.

I'm scared of it.

And I don't climb well, because I can't relax into it.

When I go ice climbing, say, at Lake Willoughby in Vermont, which is an area that's known as one of the best ice venues in North America, big, big climbs, 300 to 600 feet, super technical, steep, they can be very intimidating.

And even though I might climb them well, I'm very humbled by them every time.

And so when I go to do them, I really have to kind of game my composure, and focus on the task at hand.

And I have to really be careful about my ice ax placements and my foot placements, and the screws that I put in the ice.

I mean, that kind of thing can definitely intimidate.

Every time Laura climbs she resorts to a very basic but essential state of mind.

For me it's a challenge.

When I'm trying to climb a rock, I'm trying to get from the bottom to the top.

And sometimes I can't think about that whole way, because I can't see what's up there.

I don't know what it feels like.

I don't know what I'm going to have for footholds, for handholds.

So I'm trying to get the next three feet, or one foot, or whatever it is that it takes.

And when I'm climbing, I don't focus on anything except that.

I don't think about work.

I don't think about what's for dinner tonight.

I don't think about paying the electric bill or whatever, or whether I'm hungry, or cold, or tired.

It's I got to get from here to there.

And you suspend all notion of time.

I don't know when I'm on a climb whether I'm on it for five minutes or five hours.

It's just all this real focus, clarity, like right there in the moment.

And I don't know of anything else that's like that.

And it's exhilarating when you get to the top.

You're like, I did it, cause sometimes I look from the bottom, and I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do that.

That's just not going to happen.

John gives me a hard time about that, that I tend to be more defeatist about it and talk myself out of it before I even try, and then climb it brilliantly.

You know?

Yeah.

And so when I get to the top, it's like awesome.

And I don't really have that thought anymore once I'm climbing it, because it just becomes really, really focused.

Yeah.

Combined, John and Laura have climbed for more than 60 years.

How many walls they've scaled is anybody's guess.

It's taken them from coast to coast and across borders.

Being here in New Hampshire, though, right here at Echo Craig is still something pretty special.

I start from the ground with no preconceived notions.

I don't know what I'm going to find up there.

And I work my way up this thing, this blank wall.

And I figure a route up the wall.

And when it's done, I just look back and I go, wow, that was really incredible.

There was something special about that.

So I have this connection with that rock that's really personal.

And over the years I've gained a reputation of being somewhat bold, a little crazy.

You know, like some of my routes are kind of run out, and they're hard.

And some of the rock quality's a little dubious.

And when you do those kind of routes you're really laying it out there, meaning you're taking big risks.

And if you can get away with it, which I have-- and on occasion I haven't, and I've broken some bones.

But when you get away with it and you get done, and you've now accomplished this new route, this first ascent, there's something about that that just feeds my soul.

You know, I really get something special from it.

And there you go.

What does it feel like?

It's peaceful.

It's fun.

It's really fun.

It's sort of you look up at this thing and you go, ah, I don't know how I could possibly get up there.

But when you can move through it, it's really fun to just be able to move through it, and to be able to get beyond that fear of, I don't know if I can do this.

I don't know if I'm strong enough.

I don't know if my technique is good enough.

I don't know if I'm brave enough, you know, all those sorts of things.

And you just do it.

And you're like, when it's a nice day and you're climbing well, it's just fun to move through it.

And then you get to the top, I often forget to look around.

It's often really beautiful to just look around at where you are.

And the places that we climb are typically places where there aren't a lot of people, or any people besides us.

So it's really just a fun day in the woods.

[music playing] Well, we've had a lovely day on the cliffs of Echo Craig.

Thanks to Laura and John we've had a wonderful time.

And you just watched the climb of a famous route called the Naming of the Shrew, right?

Naming of the Shrew.

[laughter] It's a long story.

But I can't thank you enough.

It's just been great.

Oh, it was our honor.

And you know, eventually we got to say goodbye.

And that's now.

Yeah.

So we shall.

All right.

[inaudible] And I hope to see you again on "Windows to the Wild."

[sentimental music] Support for the production of "Windows to the Wild" is provided by the Alice J. Reen Charitable Trust, the Fuller Foundation, the Gilbert Verney Foundation, and viewers like you.

Thank you.