PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DEPLOYING THE NATIONAL GUARD TO WASHINGTON, D.C.

WHILE HE SAYS THE ADMINISTRATION AIMS TO CRACK DOWN ON CRIME AND HOMELESSNESS, SUMMER ASKING IF THE MOVE IS PART OF PROJECT 2025.

IT IS A CONTROVERSIAL BLUEPRINT FOR TRANSFORMING EXECUTIVE POWER.

JUST 200 DAYS TO RETURN, ONE ONLINE TRACKER SAYS THE AGENDA IS NEARLY HALFWAY THROUGH COMPLETION.

WE JOIN HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS WHAT THIS MEANS FOR EVERYDAY AMERICANS AND FOREIGN POLICY.

>> DAVID GRAHAM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOUR WORK IS CALLED THE PROJECT.

HOW PROJECT 2025 IS RESHAPING AMERICA.

FOR THOSE THAT MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH IT, DURING THE CAMPAIGN SEASON WE HEARD ABOUT THIS REPORT THAT WAS WRITTEN BY A CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK.

FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION WHAT WAS THE GOAL OF THE PROJECT?

>> THE GOAL OF PROJECT 2025 WAS BASICALLY TO HAVE AN AGENDA IN PLACE FOR THE NEXT CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT WHOEVER THAT WOULD BE.

THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION GATHERED A BUNCH OF WRITERS AND THINKERS FROM ACROSS THE TRUMP FRIENDLY RIGHT TO PUT THIS TOGETHER.

THE ATTITUDE WAS THAT THE FIRST TRUMP PRESIDENCY HAD UNDERACHIEVED BECAUSE OF POOR STAFFING AND POOR IDEAS.

THEY WANTED TO PUT IN PLACE A PLAN FOR HOW TO ACHIEVE POLICIES AND A LIST OF POLICIES HE WOULD WANT AT A GRANULAR LEVEL ACROSS EVERY PART OF THE GOVERNMENT SO THAT A PRESIDENT WHETHER TRUMP OR SOMEBODY ELSE COULD HIT THE GROUND RUNNING ON JANUARY 20, 2025.

>> THE PRESIDENT THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN DISAVOWED AND DISTANCED HIMSELF FROM THE PROJECT ITSELF.

HE SAID, QUOTE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO IS BEHIND IT CALLING THE ABYSMAL.

YET THREE OUT OF FOUR OF THE AUTHORS THAT ARE IN THIS ARE PEOPLE THAT SERVED IN HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

IT IS FULL OF FORMER AIDES.

RUSSELL VOTE WAS THE HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AT THE END OF THE FIRST TERM.

HE WENT TO WORK ON PROJECT 2025 AND SORT OF DESIGNED THE EXECUTIVE TAKEOVER PORTIONS.

HE SERVED AS THE HEAD OF THE POLICY PLATFORM COMMITTEE FOR THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION IN 2024 AND IS THE HEAD OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET AND HAS BEEN AN IMPORTANT DRIVER FOR MANY OF THESE PRIORITIES.

THE PROOF IS AND WHAT HE'S DOING AND WHO HE HAS APPOINTED TO THESE TOP RULES.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS DOCUMENT YOU DESCRIBED THIS AS A SKELETON KEY FOR UNDERSTANDING HOW THIS SECOND TRUMP PRESIDENCY IS GOING TO WORK.

HOW SHOULD WE LOOK AT IT?

SIX MONTHS WERE REALLY ABOUT TAKING OVER THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

WE SAW ATTEMPTING TO CLOSE THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT OR FIRING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVIL SERVANTS OR ATTEMPTING TO TAKE OVER THE INDEPENDENT REGULATORY AGENCIES, THE ALPHABET SOUP AGENCIES THAT HAVE HAD SOME SORT OF INDEPENDENCE FROM THE PRESIDENT WE HAVE SEEN HIM HIRE AND FIRE LEADERS OF THOSE AGENCIES.

ALL OF THESE ARE PART OF GETTING THE POWER THEY NEED TO DO THE THINGS THEY WANT.

AS WE MOVE TO A SECOND PHASE, YOU SEE THE ADMINISTRATION STARTING TO WORK THROUGH A LOT OF THE POLICY GOALS THAT WERE MADE OUT.

THOSE WERE HARD TO DO WHEN THEY DID NOT HAVE POWER AND PEOPLE IN PLACE BUT THEY ARE STARTING TO GET A TEAM IN THE TOP OFFICES THAT ARE DOING THOSE THINGS.

>> WHAT IS THE VISION OF AMERICA THAT PROJECT 2025 IS HARKENING BACK TO, FORWARD TO.

IN AN IDEAL WORLD, AMERICA WOULD LOOK LIKE BLANK IN TERMS OF SOCIAL VISION?

>> THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE TRADITIONAL FAMILY, NUCLEAR FAMILIES WITH FATHERS WORKING ON MOTHER'S MOSTLY CARING FOR CHILDREN.

VERY HETEROSEXUAL VISION.

THEY WANT TO WRITE TRANS-PEOPLE OUT OF THE LANGUAGE OF GOVERNMENT BY SAYING THEY DO NOT EXIST.

IT'S A GENDER IDEOLOGY AS THEY CALL IT.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE RELIGIOSITY AND SCHOOLS.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE ABORTION BEYOND.

ACROSS THE BOARD, THEY WANT TO BRING ABOUT THIS VISION.

IT'S NOT EXACTLY RETURNING TO ANY ONE THING IN PARTICULAR BUT AN IDEALIZED THING OF WHAT THEY WISH THE PAST HAD BEEN LIKE.

>> THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED HE WILL PLACE THE DC POLICE UNDER DIRECT FEDERAL CONTROL AND ROLLOUT THE NATIONAL GUARD AND HIS EFFORTS TO TRY TO DECREASE CRIME.

IS THIS AN IDEA YOU WOULD FIND IN PROJECT 2025?

>> THIS SPECIFIC IDEA OF DC IS THERE ARE SEVERAL PLACES WHERE THIS DOVETAILS CLOSELY WITH IT.

ONE OF THEM IS THE IDEA THAT FEDERAL TROOPS ARE USEFUL WAY TO ENFORCE THE LAWS.

THERE'S A STRONG ADVOCACY IN PROJECT 2025 FOR USING FEDERAL TROOPS AT THE BORDER BUT ALSO PLACES WITH HIGH CRIME.

SECOND OF ALL, A WAR ON CITIES AND STATES.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD FOR CITIES AND STATES TO DO WHAT THE PRESIDENT WANTS AND USE WHATEVER MEANS ARE AT THE WHITE HOUSE DISPOSAL.

THIRD, THIS WAS AT PEACE WITH THE GENERAL IDEA THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE VERY BROAD POWER TO DO WHAT HE WANTS.

WE SEE TRUMP DOING THAT USING EMERGENCY POWERS WITH THIS DECLARATION.

>> ASSESS THE INFLUENCE OF THIS PROJECT ON, FOR EXAMPLE, IMMIGRATION WHERE WE'VE SEEN NOT JUST A FLURRY OF EXECUTIVE ACTIONS BUT WE'VE SEEN RESTRUCTURING OF GOVERNMENT, NEW AUTHORITIES.

LOTS OF THINGS THAT SEEM LIKE THEY WOULD COME FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PLAN.

>> THAT'S RIGHT IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN A FOCUS FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT PROJECT 2025 DOES IS THINK ABOUT HOW TO USE THE GOVERNMENT POWER MORE EFFECTIVELY.

IT'S NOT SIMPLY THEY WANT TO CRACK DOWN ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION USING FOR EXAMPLE NATIONAL GUARD OR OTHER TROOPS AT THE BORDER BUT THEY ALSO WANT TO REDUCE LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

THAT IS SOMETHING YOU SEE THE ADMINISTRATION DOING WHETHER IT IS CUTTING DOWN ON STUDENT VISAS, MAKING IT HARDER FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS TO STUDY HERE, A FEE FOR A TOURIST VISA, THEY WANT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF VISAS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AND THE KINDS THAT ARE AVAILABLE.

THEY ENVISION A COUNTRY THAT IS MUCH MORE SHUT OFF FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD AND HAS THE POPULATION THAT EXISTS NOW RATHER THAN WITH A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS COMING IN.

>> IN TERMS OF FOREIGN POLICY, WHERE DO YOU SEE THE IMPACTS OF IDEAS THAT WERE EXPRESSED IN PROJECT 2025.

WHETHER IT'S OUR PLACE IN THE WORLD, WHAT KIND OF AID WE SHOULD BE GIVEN.

>> IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE PROJECT 2025 HAS A FLAT VISION OF THE WORLD.

IN THEIR VIEW CHINA IS THE MAJOR THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES.

AN ECONOMIC THREAT AND A MILITARY THREAT.

THEY WANT TO REORIENT THE WORLD AROUND TAKING CHINA ON.

EVERYTHING ELSE IS KIND OF AN AFTERTHOUGHT INCLUDING THE MIDDLE EAST.

THEY DO ENVISION TAKING A LOT OF THE EXISTING HUMANITARIAN APPARATUS AND DIRECTLY PUSHING AMERICAN GOALS.

THE DISMANTLEMENT OF USAID IS A LITTLE OF AN EXAMPLE OF THAT ALTHOUGH THE AUTHORS THE PROJECT 2025 DON'T GO THAT FAR.

THEY WANT TO CREATE COALITIONS TO TAKE ON CHINA.

TRUMP ACTIONS TO LEVY TARIFFS ON A LOT OF ALLIES HAS PUSHED THEM AWAY AND MADE IT HARDER TO CREATE THE COALITION THE ENVISION TO TAKE CHINA ON.

>> THE EPA ANNOUNCED IT WILL ROLLBACK OBAMA ERA REGULATIONS ON OMISSIONS.

I WONDER, IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH SOME OF PROJECT 2025 RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT TO DO FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, THEIR VIEWS ON CLIMATE SCIENCE.

>> VERY MUCH SO.

PROJECT 2025 IS OF THE VIEW THAT CLIMATE SCIENCE SHOULD BE ELIMINATED FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

IT DOES NOT DENY THAT THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING BUT THEY SAID IT SHOULD BE SOLVED BY PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

THEY TREAT THE INTERIOR DEPARTMENT AS A SORT OF OIL AND GAS EXTRACTION DEPARTMENT.

THEY WANT TO REDUCE A LOT OF REGULATION.

THAT INCLUDES THINGS LIKE POLLUTION, CARBON DIOXIDE AND GREENHOUSE GASES, FOREVER CHEMICALS, THE VIEW IS THAT THEY TELL THE STORY OF THE ONE TIME THAT THE WATER WAS DIRTY, THE AIR WAS SMOGGY IN THE 1970S BUT WE'VE MADE GREAT PROGRESS AND ENVIRONMENTAL IS HOLDING US IF WE WANT TO PROSPER AS A NATION WE NEED TO GET RID OF THESE REGULATIONS.

>> YOU MENTIONED PRIVATIZATION AS A SOLUTION.

WHAT KINDS OF AGENCIES, WORK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES TODAY DOES THE PROJECT AUTHORS THINK SHOULD BE PRIVATIZED?

>> I THINK THE BEST EXAMPLE IS CLIMATE SCIENCE.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE LARGE PARTS OF THE NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC ADMINISTRATION PRIVATIZED.

THEY WOULD LIKE TO MONITOR RESEARCH INTO THAT SECTOR.

ALSO MOVING OUT OF EDUCATION.

MOVING THOSE THINGS TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT ELIMINATED AND MOVE TO A SYSTEM MORE LIKE WHAT WE HAD IN THE EARLY 19th CENTURY WHERE BANKS CAN ISSUE THEIR OWN CURRENCY.

>> HOW SUCCESSFUL WERE THESE IDEAS?

WE ARE SIX, SEVEN MONTHS INTO THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS DOCUMENT, HOW MUCH OF THAT HAS BEEN SET IN MOTION OR ALREADY COME TO PASS?

>> I THINK IT IS HARD TO QUANTIFY.

THERE'S SO MANY GOALS, SOME OF WHICH ARE GRANULAR AND SPECIFIC, SOME OF WHICH ARE SWEEPING.

IT IS HARD TO SAY FOR SURE.

WE'VE SEEN PROGRESS ON THINGS LIKE THE ENVIRONMENT BUT IN TERMS OF THE GOAL OF TAKING EXECUTIVE POWER AND TRANSFORMING THE WAY THE PRESIDENCY WORKS THEY HAVE MADE A HUGE AMOUNT OF PROGRESS.

MAYBE MORE THAN THEY ANTICIPATED.

ELON MUSK WAS HELPFUL IN GETTING SOME OF THOSE THINGS DONE.

ONE OF THE LEADERS OF PROJECT 2025 SAID THAT IT HAD ALREADY BEEN --SUCCEEDED BEYOND HIS WILDEST DREAMS.

SO EVERYTHING NOW DEPENDS ON THE PRESIDENT HAVING THE POWER THE SUPREME COURT IS RULING ON THINGS THAT COULD GIVE HIM MORE POWER.

>> HAS THE SUPREME COURT MADE ANY INDICATIONS ON WHICH WAY IT MIGHT RULE?

WE HAVE THE FIRING OF THOUSANDS OF CIVIL SERVANTS, THE DISMANTLING OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND OTHER CASES THAT WILL WIND UP IN FRONT OF THE JUSTICES.

>> WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THE COURT IS DECLINING TO BLOCK THINGS.

WHETHER IT'S THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT OR THE ABILITY TO FIRE THE HEADS OF THESE AGENCIES.

WE DO NOT KNOW HOW THEY WILL RULE BUT BECAUSE THEY'VE DECIDED NOT TO BLOCK THEM SEEMS THEY ARE AT LEAST SOMEWHAT SYMPATHETIC AND MAY RULE IN FAVOR OF HIM.

>> ONE OF THE TENANTS INSIDE THE PROJECT, AROUND THE TRADITIONAL FAMILY AND THE SOCIAL VALUES THAT THE PROJECT WANTS TO SEE IN AMERICA WAS A DECIDEDLY ANTIABORTION STANCE.

I WONDER, WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT TAKEN NEARLY AS MANY STEPS IN THAT REALM AS IT HAS IN SO MANY OTHERS?

>> I AM A LITTLE SURPRISED.

I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS GOING ON.

ONE, TRUMP HIMSELF SEEMS TO HAVE BACKED AWAY.

I THINK HE CONCLUDED THAT HE HAD GOTTEN THE POLITICAL PUNCH OUT OF IT HE COULD GET AND HE MIGHT RISK BACKLASH.

ALSO BY APPOINTING ROBERT F KENNEDY JR.

HE HAS PUT IN PLACE SOMEBODY WHO HAS A KIND OF MURKY STANCE AND IS NOT FOCUSED ON IT.

HE'S MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN THE AGENDA WE HAVE SEEN.

I ALSO DON'T THINK IT WILL GO AWAY QUIETLY.

FOR THE PEOPLE INVOLVED TO ARE NOW SCATTERED THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT, THIS IS A REALLY ESSENTIAL MORAL QUESTION, ONE OF THEIR MOST FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF LEVERAGE THEY BAN ON ABORTION.

THEY ARE INTERESTED IN TRACKING IT AT THE STATE LEVEL, OR PREVENTING THE MAILING OF ABORTION DRUGS OR ATTEMPTING TO WITHDRAW FDA APPROVAL.

THERE IS A LOT OF LEVERAGE.

FOR THEM IT IS A LONG RUN.

OBVIOUSLY, THE PRO-LIFE RIGHT WAS WILLING TO WORK FOR DECADES AND I THINK THEY ARE CONTINUING TO WORK FOR A FULL BAND NATIONALLY.

>> IS THERE A COUNTER MOVEMENT.

WE HAVE HAD THESE KIND OF SOUL- SEARCHING CONVERSATIONS FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WHO SAY WE WILL HAVE OUR OWN PROJECT, HERE'S WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO.

>> THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A PROJECT 2029.

I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS IT DOES NOT MATCH UP.

DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ABOUT WHICH VOTERS TO TARGET.

PROJECT 2025 IS NOT A POLITICAL PROJECT.

THEY SAY IT IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S JOB TO GET A PRESIDENT ELECTED.

THEY START WITH THE WORLDVIEW.

SOME DEMOCRATS SEEM TO BE ATTACKING THIS FROM THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

IF YOUR CONCERN IS A PRESIDENT THAT IS TOO POWERFUL, ONE PLACE TO FOCUS IS THE ROLE OF CONGRESS.

I DO NOT SEE ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT HOW CONGRESS CAN SERVE AS AN EFFECTIVE COUNTERWEIGHT.

>> YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH THE AUTHORS, DOING THE RESEARCH AND READING THROUGH, WERE YOU SURPRISED OF THE TONE OR TENOR, THE WAY THAT SOME OF THESE GRIEVANCES THAT THEY HAVE, I'M THINKING THERE'S A PHRASE, WE WANT THE BUREAUCRATS TO BE DRAMATICALLY AFFECTED.

THAT SORT OF SETS POLICY ASIDE.

THAT SEEMS PERSONAL.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

YOU HAVE HEARD RUSSELL SAY THINGS LIKE WE ARE IN THE FINAL STAGES OF A MARXIST TAKEOVER.

THE HEAD OF HERITAGE LIVES -- LAST SUMMER SAID WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF AN AMERICAN REVOLUTION WHICH WOULD REMAIN BLOODLESS.

THERE IS A REAL GRUDGE.

AT THE PART OF IT IS A FEAR THAT AMERICA AS THEY KNOW AND LOVE IT IS DISAPPEARING AND IF THEY DO NOT TAKE DRASTIC ACTION THEY WILL LOSE GRIP OF THAT.

THAT GIVES THEM A FEELING THAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO HOLD ONTO POWER.

>> WHEN YOU START TO CHANGE THE STRUCTURE OF AN INSTITUTION, YOU INCREASE THE POTENTIAL POWER HELD BY THE PRESIDENT, THE AUTHORS HAVE TO KNOW THAT EVENTUALLY THE PRESIDENT COULD BE ELECTED INTO OFFICE THAT IS COUNTER TO ALL OF THEIR OWN INTERESTS, BUT THAT POWER AND INFRASTRUCTURE STILL REMAINS.

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

I THINK IT IS AN INTERESTING FLAW IN THE ARGUMENT A PHRASE A LOT OF THESE THINGS IN STRAIGHTFORWARD CONSTITUTIONAL TERMS.

THEY ARGUE THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SHOULD BE MORE UNDER THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THAT WAY THE CONSTITUTION IS WRITTEN.

IT IS DIFFICULT TO KNOW HOW THEY WOULD RESPOND IF A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT WAS USING A LOT OF THESE POWERS THAT TRUMP IS USING.

PART OF IT IS ABOUT THE DESPERATION AND PART OF IT IS THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE WORKING ON THE LONG TIMELINE, DOING THINGS NOW, THERE WERE WORKING FOR THE FIRST FEW MONTHS.

THEY ARE WORKING FOR THE FIRST FEW YEARS BEFORE THE MIDTERMS, THEY ARE ALSO TRYING TO SHIFT THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT WORKS AND THE WAY SOCIETY WORKS MUCH LONGER DOWN THE ROAD.

WHEN YOU ARE WORKING ON THAT KIND OF TIMELINE, YOU ARE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE NEXT PRESIDENT WILL LOOK LIKE AND MORE CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE THINGS WILL BE.

>> WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE DIFFERENT AREAS THAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN AN IMPACT.

IMMIGRATION, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS IS THE BATTLE OVER FEDERAL FUNDS.

WE SEE IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH INSIST THEY CAN IMPOUND FUNDS, REFUSE TO SPEND THINGS THAT HAVE AN APPROPRIATE IT.

WE'VE SEEN TALKING ABOUT POCKET RESCISSIONS WHICH IS NOT SPENDING THE MONEY AND WE SAW THE WHITE HAS COME TO CONGRESS WITH A BILL ON IT.

I THINK FUNDING AND WHETHER THE PRESIDENCY IS USING THE FUNDS CONGRESS HAS LAID OUT IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION.

I'M LOOKING ACROSS A RANGE OF POLICY AREAS.

WE SAW TRUMP TAKING ON BANKS, ACCUSING THEM OF DISCRIMINATION.

THE IDEA THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATING THE CHOICES DISMISSES MAKEUP WHO THEY SERVE IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

NOT A TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE FEEL THAT SOMETHING WE WILL SEE MORE OF.

YOU WILL LIKELY SEE IT IN CLIMATE SCIENCE AND FAMILY POLICY.

THERE'S SO MANY IDEAS AND PLACES FOR PROJECT 2025 TO TRY TO MAKE AN IMPACT.

>> THE BOOK IS CALLED THE PROJECTS.

HOW PROJECT 2025 IS RESHAPING AMERICA.

DAVID GRAHAM, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> THANK YOU.