>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE DO NOT WANT OUR STREETS MILITARIZED BY OUR OWN ARMED FORCES.

>> UNREST GROWS AT TRUMP'S DEPLOYMENT OF NATIONAL GUARD AND MARINES.

PROTEST SPREADS FROM L.A. ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

CALIFORNIA'S ATTORNEY GENERAL ROB BONTA JOINS ME AND CONGRESSWOMAN NORMA TORRES TO DISCUSS TRUMP'S CRACKDOWN AND WHAT THIS MEANS TO AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

>>> PLUS, DOZENS MORE SHOT TO DEATH AT THE PALESTINE AID SITE.

I SPEAK TO FORMER INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMES PROSECUTOR SIR JEFFREY KNIGHT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA AND HOW AMERICA IS TARGETING THE ICC.

>>> THEN -- >> AND DESTROY WHAT WAS PERHAPS THE GREATEST EXAMPLE OF BLACK EXCELLENCE IN ECONOMICS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP THAT THE COUNTRY HAD SEEN AT THE TIME.

THE DARK LEGACY OF THE 1921 TULSA RACE MASSACRE.

MICHELLE MARTIN SPEAKS TO THE CITY'S MAYOR, MONROE NICHOLS, ABOUT HIS NEW JUSTICE INITIATIVE AND HIS PLANS FOR $105 MILLION REPARATIONS PACKAGE.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILL MEN M. D'AGOSTINO PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANTZ CONY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ, AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON WHERE THE WORLD WATCHES AS THE MOST POWERFUL DEMOCRACY DEPLOYS ITS MILITARY AGAINST CITIZENS TO ENFORCE ITS POLITICAL AGENDA.

IN THE UNITED STATES, PROTESTS OVER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SENDING IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND HAVING U.S. MARINES ON STANDBY TO ASSIST IN ITS IMMIGRATION RAIDS ARE SPREADING ACROSS THE COUNTRY FROM LOS ANGELES NOW TO NEW YORK, CHICAGO, AND OTHER KEY CITIES.

AND THIS EXTRAORDINARY SCENE AT FORT BRAGG, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS LITERALLY RALLYING THE TROOPS.

>> WHAT YOU'RE WITNESSING IN CALIFORNIA IS A FULL BLOWN ASSAULT ON PEACE, ON PUBLIC WE WILL LIBERATE LOS ANGELES AND MAKE IT FREE, CLEAN, AND SAFE AGAIN.

IT'S HAPPENING VERY QUICKLY.

>> LEGAL AND MILITARY EXPERTS WARN THAT THIS COULD THREATEN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM CALLS IT A BRAZEN ASSAULT OF POWER.

>> DEMOCRACY IS UNDER ASSAULT BEFORE OUR EYES.

HE'S TAKING A WRECKING BALL TO OUR FOUNDING FATHERS' HISTORIC PROJECT.

>> DESPITE A FIERCE BACKLASH FROM CITIZENS AND LAWMAKERS ALIKE, TRUMP IS DOUBLING DOWN AS THE SITUATION ESCALATES, IT'S ALSO FUELLED BY RAMPANT MISINFORMATION ONLINE WITH OLD AND MISLEADING VIDEOS AND IMAGES BEING SHARED.

GOVERNOR NEWSOM AND THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL, ROB BONTA, ARE SUING THE PRESIDENT TO REMOVE THE TROOPS FROM THEIR STREETS.

BONTA SAYS MOBILIZING 700 MARINES IS A, QUOTE, UNNECESSARY ESCALATION.

AND HE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM ATTORNEY GENERAL, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

>> HONORED TO BE HERE.

>> CAN I ASK YOU WHAT THE SITUATION IS NOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION SAID THEY SENT IN THIS MILITARY SHOW OF FORCE IN ORDER TO PRESERVE THE PEACE, AND AS HE SAID, TO LIBERATE CALIFORNIA.

WHAT IS THE CURRENT SITUATION ON THE STREETS?

>> WELL, BECAUSE OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT'S IMPORTANT WORK, THE LOS ANGELES SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CHP, AND LOCAL SHERIFFS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT PROVIDED ASSISTANCE AS NEEDED IN TARGETED AREAS, EVERYTHING'S UNDER CONTROL.

AND IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

AND THERE WERE SOME FLARE UPS, BUT THAT'S NOT UNCOMMON.

THAT'S WHAT LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES DO.

THEY TACKLE CRIME, THEY RESPOND.

THEY PUT DOWN AND QUELL PROBLEMS.

THE NATIONAL GUARD WAS NEVER NEEDED.

THE NATIONAL GUARD'S PRESENCE AND THE MARINES' PRESENCE NOW ONLY STOKES THE FLAMES.

IT IS PROVOCATIVE.

IT ESCALATES UNNECESSARILY THE SITUATION AND INCREASES TENSION.

SO THE CALM AND THE PEACE THAT WE ARE WORKING TOWARDS WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT SUCCESSFULLY IS BEING DISRUPTED BY THE PRESIDENT'S UNLAWFUL, I WANT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT, HIS UNLAWFUL DEPLOYMENT OF THE NATIONAL GUARD AND MOBILIZATION OF THE MARINES.

SO IT IS HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC, AND IT IS A MANUFACTURED PROBLEM CREATED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP AND, UNFORTUNATELY, IT SEEMS THAT HE WANTS THE PROVOCATION.

HE WANTS THE ESCALATION.

BUT WE WANT IN CALIFORNIA AND IN L.A. WE WANT PEACE, WE WANT CALM, AND OUR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE FULLY CAPABLE OF PROVIDING THAT.

>> YOU AS ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, IS SUING TO GET THESE FORCES AND THIS MILITARIZATION OFF YOUR STREETS AND OUT OF YOUR STATE AT THE MOMENT.

BUT YOU SAY UNLAWFUL, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS USING, AND I'M GOING TO READ THIS, A LAW BASICALLY THAT THEY HAVE DEPLOYED AGAINST, I THINK INSURRECTION, THEY'VE CALLED IT INSURRECTION, SOME OF THE ADMINISTRATION MEMBERS.

BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE -- THAT THE LAW STATES IN CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS LANGUAGE WHAT?

I MEAN, THERE IS THIS LAW THAT HE IS USING.

>> HE IS CITING A LAW.

THAT DOES NOT GIVE HIM THE AUTHORITY TO CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

IT IS CALLED 10USC 406, IT REQUIRES FOR THEM TO EVEN CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD THE EXISTENCE OF EITHER, ONE, AN INVASION, THERE'S NO INVASION, TWO, A REBELLION, THERE'S NO REBELLION, THREE, THE INABILITY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO EXECUTE THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT DOES NOT EXIST EITHER.

IT ALSO ADDITIONALLY REQUIRES THE CONSENT OF THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA WHICH HE ABSOLUTELY AND CLEARLY AND INDISPUTABLY DOES NOT HAVE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS OBJECTED TO THE GUARD.

SO JUST CITING A LAW DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN DO THE THINGS YOU WANT BY CITING IT.

YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE SCOMPLAU THE ELEMENTS PROVIDED THEREIN.

AND HE CLEARLY HAS NOT.

THE MARINES BEING CALLED IN IS AN ADDITIONAL ESCALATION.

THE LAW IS DIFFERENT AS TO THEM.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT THAT SAYS THERE WILL BE NO MILITARY LAW ENFORCEMENT OF CIVILIAN LAW, SO THE MILITARY CAN'T COME IN AND FORCE CIVILIAN LAW ON AMERICAN SOIL IN AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOODS AND STREETS AND NEIGHBORHOODS AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE MARINES APPEAR TO BE ON SITE IN LOS ANGELES TO DO.

SO THAT IS UNLAWFUL, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR AN ORDER FROM A COURT.

THERE'S A HEARING TOMORROW TO INVALIDATE THE PRESIDENT'S ORDERING CALLING IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND TO RESTRICT THE MARINES ONLY TO LAWFUL ACTIVITY AND OPERATIONS.

>> SO THEY HAVEN'T ACTUALLY JOINED THE NATIONAL GUARD HEARING FROM YOU.

BUT SO LET ME JUST STATE FOR OUR VIEWERS THAT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN 60 YEARS THAT THE NATIONAL GUARD HAS BEEN DEPLOYED WITHOUT THE SPECIFIC REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR OF A STATE.

THAT WAS PRESIDENT JOHNSON WAY BACK WHEN.

HE ORDERED THEM IN TO PROTECT CIVIL RIGHTS ADVOCATES AND ACTIVISTS WHO WERE MARCHING ACROSS THE SELMA BRIDGE AND WHO WERE COMING UNDER ATTACK FROM CIVILIANS AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

I MEAN, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.

BUT DO YOU EXPECT YOUR SUIT TO BE SUCCESSFUL?

>> WE DO EXPECT THE SUIT TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

WE THINK WE HAVE THE BETTER OF THE ARGUMENT, THE FACTS.

WE THINK THE LAW IS PRETTY CLEAR AND UNAMBIGUOUS ABOUT WHAT IS REQUIRED IN ORDER FOR THE PRESIDENT TO CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT THE LAW DEMANDS ARE NOT PRESENT HERE.

AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT IN THE PAST THE INSURRECTION ACT HAS BEEN USED.

CLEAR, THE INSURRECTION ACT HAS NOT BEEN INVOKED AT THIS TIME.

THE PRESIDENT CALLING IN OF THE MARINES AND OF THE NATIONAL GUARD IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH AND PURSUANT TO THE INSURRECTION ACT.

IT'S PURSUANT TO 1210 USC 406.

WHEN THE INSURRECTION ACT HAS BEEN USED IN THE PAST, IT'S BEEN USED TO PROTECT AMERICANS FROM HAVING THEIR RIGHTS DEPRIVED SUCH AS THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS OR THEIR RIGHT TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST.

BUT 12 --OR --THIS HAS BEEN USED ONCE IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES.

IT WAS USED WHEN THE POST OFFICE WORKERS WENT ON STRIKE AND THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT FOR AN OPERATIONAL POSTAL MAIL SYSTEM WAS NOT BEING ABLE TO BE DELIVERED, SO THE NATIONAL GUARD CAME IN TO DELIVER THE MAIL.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CANNOT EXECUTE THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT THAT DOES NOT EXIST HERE.

SO WE BELIEVE WE WILL PREVAIL IN OUR CASE.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

THE ADMINISTRATION SAYS YOU HAVE THESE UNCONSTITUTIONAL SANCTUARY CITY LAWS, AND YOU SEE THEY SAY THEY'RE GOING, YOU KNOW, I.C.E.

IS GOING TO PLAN MORE RAIDS IN MORE PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

NOW, WHAT WE'VE BEEN TOLD IS THAT ALL THESE RAIDS ARE HAPPENING IN DEMOCRATIC-LED STATES.

WE DON'T SEE ANYTHING HAPPENING, AT LEAST WE HAVEN'T YET, IN LET'S SAY SOUTH DAKOTA, THE HOME STATE OF THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY, A REPUBLICAN, A MEMBER OF THE CABINET.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS ACTUALLY HAPPEN SOMETHING.

>> YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT HAS A VERY DIFFICULT AND COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FACTS AND THE LAW.

HE HAS SAID I'M NOT A LAWYER WHEN ASKED A VERY STRAIGHT FORWARD CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTION, AND THAT IS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT HE'S NOT A LAWYER.

HIS COMMAND OF THE LAW AND THE FACTS IS POOR.

AND HE CALLS THINGS --USES WORDS THAT DO NOT APPLY.

HE SAYS THAT THINGS ARE NOT A REBELLION ARE NOT A REBELLION OR NOT AN INSURRECTION OR AN EMERGENCY ARE AN INSURRECTION OR EMERGENCY, BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE TRIGGER WORDS AND STATUTES TO ALLOW HIM TO GET WHAT HE WANTS, MORE POWER, MORE AUTHORITY.

WHEN THERE'S AN INSURRECTION, A REBELLION, THE PRESIDENT GETS MORE AUTHORITY.

BUT YOU CAN'T CALL A BURNING VEHICLE A REBELLION OR AN INVASION OR AN INSURRECTION WHEN IT'S NOT.

THERE ACTUALLY WAS AN INSURRECTION ON JANUARY 6th AND HE REFUSED TO CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD.

NOW HE'S TRYING TO CALL IN THE NATIONAL GUARD POTENTIALLY BECAUSE OF AN INSURRECTION WHEN IT'S JUST SOME VIOLENCE AMONG MOSTLY PEACEFUL PROTESTERS.

THE IRONY IS VERY THICK.

BUT WE THINK HE MIGHT BE ON HIS WAY TO INVOKING THE INSURRECTION ACT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE USED BY STEVEN MILLER AND DONALD TRUMP AND OTHERS, THEY KEEP USING THE WORD EMERGENCY, INSURRECTION, REBELLION.

THEY'RE TRYING TO SOCIALIZE AN IDEA AND LAY THE GROUNDWORK, BUT THEY CAN'T CREATE FACTS THAT DON'T EXIST.

THERE IS AN INSURRECTION, SO THE INSURRECTION ACT WOULD BE INVOKED IMPROPERLY IF AT ALL.

>> SO YOU RECALL, OBVIOUSLY, BACK IN TRUMP 1.0, HE DID BRING OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD.

THERE WERE PROTESTS, THERE WAS A SITUATION OUTSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND AT THE TIME, MILITARY OFFICIALS WERE INVOLVED AND THEN THEY QUICKLY REGRETTED IT AND MADE STATEMENTS AGAINST IT.

AND AFTER HIS RESIGNATION, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS, MARK MILLEY, SAID THE FOLLOWING.

>> --TO A KING OR A QUEEN OR A TYRANT OR A DICTATOR, AND WE DON'T TAKE AN OATH TO A WANNA-BE DICTATOR.

WE DON'T TAKE AN OATH TO AN INDIVIDUAL.

WE TAKE AN OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION, AND WE TAKE AN OATH TO THE IDEA THAT IS AMERICA.

AND WE'RE WILLING TO DIE TO PROTECT IT.

>> ATTORNEY GENERAL, DO YOU THINK THAT SPIRIT OF THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, AND AS HE SAYS, OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION AND NOT TO AN INDIVIDUAL, STILL EXISTS, EVEN AMONGST THE MILITARY, EVEN THOSE WHO'VE BEEN DEPLOYED?

>> I DO.

I HAVE THE DEEPEST FAITH AND CONFIDENCE IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, THEIR COMMITMENT TO UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION, OUR DEMOCRACY, THE RULE OF LAW, THE PRESIDENT CERTAINLY IS A REPEAT OFFENDER WHEN IT COMES TO BREAKING THE LAW AND VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION.

WE'VE SUED HIM 25 TIMES BECAUSE OF HIS BRAZEN AND BLATANT VIOLATIONS OF THE LAW, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT MEMBERS OF OF THE MILITARY, OUR LEADERS IN PUBLIC SERVICE, EVERYDAY AMERICANS ARE COMPLETELY COMMITTED TO OUR CONSTITUTION, THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, CHECKS AND BALANCES.

AND THE ESSENTIAL, SINGULAR ELEMENT THAT THE CONSTITUTION STANDS FOR WHICH IS THAT WE SHALL NEVER HAVE A TYRANT, A MONARCH, A KING, THAT'S HOW AMERICA WAS CREATED AND CONSTITUTED BECAUSE WE NEVER KING.

POWER HAS BEEN DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE DIFFERENT BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT AND BETWEEN THE STATES AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THAT REASON.

SO THE PRESIDENT'S ATTEMPT TO CONSOLIDATE AUTHORITY IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, BUT HIS EFFORTS, I THINK, WILL BE STYMIED BY THE PATRIOTS WHO CONTINUE TO BE COMMITTED TO OUR CONSTITUTION, THE SEPARATION OF POWERS, CHECKS AND BALANCES, SO I THINK THAT'S A VERY APPROPRIATE COMMENT THAT YOU JUST PLAYED AND I BELIEVE THAT IT'S WIDESPREAD THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.

>> WELL, ATTORNEY GENERAL, ROB BONTA, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND FRANKLY, THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING THIS, SO WE WILL KEEP AN EYE ON IT.

LISTENING IN FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., IS CONGRESSWOMAN NORMA TORRES, WHOSE CONSTITUENTS ARE IN THE ADMINISTRATION'S DRAGNET.

CONGRESSWOMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

FIRST CAN I JUST ASK YOU A SLIGHTLY UNDERPLAYED, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ARRESTED IN SOME RED THE CRACKDOWNS ARE IN BLUE CITIES, MAJOR BLUE CITIES, IS THAT CORRECT?

AM I CORRECT NOW?

>> WELL, WHAT I CAN SPEAK TO IS THE VIOLENT ARRESTS THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, IN PARTICULAR IN THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY AREA.

WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO ARRESTING CRIMINALS WHEN I.C.E.

HAS A WARRANT.

THE PROBLEM COMES WHEN THEY COME VIOLENTLY RAIDING SCHOOLS, RAIDING BUSINESSES, RAIDING JUST COMMUNITY CENTERS.

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE AGAINST THEM DOING.

AND THIS IS WHAT HAS CAUSED THE INSTABILITY IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES CURRENTLY.

WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS PRETENDING TO DO IN RED STATES IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE REALITY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING IN LOS ANGELES AND BLUE STATES.

>> SO YOU YOURSELF KNOW, A CONGRESSWOMAN, YOUR CONSTITUENTS ARE IMPLICATED IN ALL THIS, THIS WEEKEND YOU WERE BLOCKED FROM ENTERING A FEDERAL DETENTION CENTER FOR IMMIGRANTS WHO HAD BEEN DETAINED.

WHY WERE YOU --TELL ME WHY YOU WERE THERE, WHY YOU WERE BLOCKED FROM GOING THERE.

WAS IT YOUR RIGHT AS A CONGRESSWOMAN TO BE ABLE TO GO IN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE SPECIFICALLY WROTE LAW TO ENSURE THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THEIR OVERSIGHT, THEIR DUE DILIGENCE ON WHAT IS HAPPENING WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS.

YOU SEE, WE LEARNED FROM THE LAST FOUR YEARS WHEN TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE.

WHAT OCCURRED THAT MORNING, SATURDAY MORNING, IT STARTED AT 8:00 A.M., THERE WERE NO PROTESTERS WHEN WE ARRIVED.

WE WERE IN CONTACT WITH OFFICIALS INSIDE OF THE DETENTION CENTER.

AT ONE POINT THEY MOVED US TO THE SIDE WHERE THEY TOLD US TO HOLD.

WE SHOWED THEM OUR WE PROVIDED THE NAMES OF THE FOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO WERE THERE.

HOW THEY RESPONDED WAS BY REFUSING ENTRY AND THEN DEPLOYING A CHEMICAL AGENT ON MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, OUR STAFF, AND ATTORNEYS THAT WERE PRESENT TO VISIT THEIR --THE DETAINEES THAT WERE INSIDE.

AND THIS CHEMICAL AGENT WASN'T JUST DEPLOYED ONCE OR TWICE, IT WAS DEPLOYED THREE TIMES.

WE HAVE WITNESSES OF THE FIRST TWO TIMES.

THE LAST TIME WE DID NOT GET A WITNESS BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS A BIT OVERWHELMED.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST SAID THEY COME INTO WORKPLACES AND SCHOOLS AND THE OTHER PLACES YOU LISTED, WE READ THAT I.C.E.

IS HAVING OR THE AUTHORITIES WHO ARE MEANT TO BE ARRESTING AND DEPORTING AND ALL THAT IS HAVING SOME TROUBLE GETTING THESE MASS DEPORTATIONS AND GETTING THESE, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBERS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION APPARENTLY WANTS.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE HEARING?

IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK IS GOING ON?

>> THAT IS IS A FACT, AS A MATTER OF FACT.

THE PREVIOUS I.C.E.

DIRECTOR WAS FIRED BECAUSE HE WAS UNABLE TO MEET THE TRUMP QUOTA THAT WAS BEING DEMANDED OF HIM.

SO WE HAVE A NEW DIRECTOR, AND INDISCRIMINATELY THEY ARE GOING OUT TARGETING PEOPLE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF HOW THEY LOOK, THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN, AND WITHIN THOSE RAIDS THEY ARE DETAINING AND ARRESTING VETERANS, A U.S.

MARSHAL, A PREGNANT WOMAN IN THE LAST STAGES OF GIVING BIRTH, AND THESE WERE AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT THEY DETAINED.

BUT LOOK, THE WORST OFFENSE HERE IS THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NO WARRANTS, THAT THEY ARE NOT TARGETING SPECIFIC PEOPLE.

THEY ARE REFUSING TO EVEN READ THEM THEIR MIRANDA RIGHTS.

AND THEN THEY ARE DISAPPEARING THEM BY REFUSING TO INCLUDE THEIR INFORMATION INTO A DATABASE WHERE THEIR FAMILIES CAN FIND THEM SO THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE TAKEN CARE OF.

>> YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A WAR OF WORDS, A WAR OF POLITICS GOING ON, AND YOU YOURSELF HAVE BEEN CRITICIZED BY THE RIGHT WING MEDIA FOR A VIDEO THAT YOU POSTED.

AND YOU BASICALLY SAID I DON'T THINK I CAN SAY THE WHOLE THING, BUT YOU SAID I SHOULD GET THE ET CETERA OUT OF L.A.

SO THAT PEACE CAN BE RESTORED.

SHOULD YOU NOT HAVE SAID THAT?

>> WHEN I WAS ON A PLANE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., TO LOS ANGELES AND I WAS WATCHING THE VIOLENCE UNFOLDING OF THE VIOLENT APPROACH ENCOUNTERS BETWEEN I.C.E.

AND PEOPLE IN THE STREETS, LIKE I SAID, INDISCRIMINATELY TARGETING PEOPLE, SO I STAND BY MY WORDS FOR I.C.E.

TO GET THE F OUT OF LOS ANGELES SO THAT THE LOCALS, THE LOCALS THAT UNDERSTAND THESE COMMUNITY GROUPS AND, YOU KNOW, LOS ANGELES IS A VERY DIVERSE CITY.

IT IS LIKE A LITTLE WORLD WITHIN A COMMUNITY.

NO ONE KNOWS THAT WORLD BETTER THAN THE LAPD, THE LOCAL LEADERS, AND THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

AND THEY OUGHT TO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESTORE ORDER AND TO BRING BACK SOME COMMUNITY PEACE AND BE ABLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE.

THAT CAN'T HAPPEN WHILE I.C.E.

CONTINUES TO SUFFOCATE THE COMMUNITY WITH THE VIOLENCE THAT THEY CONTINUE TO ERODE OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

>> AND CONGRESSWOMAN, LASTLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HEAR ABOUT U.S. MARINES, FOR ME THAT'S A WAR ZONE.

I MEAN, I'VE COVERED WARS WITH AMERICANS DEPLOYED FOR MOST OF MY CAREER, AND MARINES ARE USUALLY DEPLOYED IN THAT CERTAIN SITUATION.

SO WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS, WITH THESE HIGHLY TRAIN MILITARY COMING TO THE STREET FACING OFF WITH SOME YOUNG PROTESTERS, I MEAN, DO YOU --ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT SOMETHING BAD COULD, I MEAN, EVEN WORSE THAT COULD HAPPEN?

THAT THERE COULD BE FATALITIES, THAT THINGS COULD GET OUT OF CONTROL IF THIS STAND-OFF ISN'T ENDED?

>> I AM EXTREMELY CONCERNED TO HAVE TRAINED MILITARY FOR THE PURPOSE OF WAR.

THEY ARE WARRIORS IN A DOMESTIC SETTING WHERE THERE IS A CIVIL DISPUTE.

I THINK THAT THAT AUTHORITY LIES ON THE HANDS OF THE LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THEY KNOW THESE COMMUNITIES.

THEY UNDERSTAND THEM.

AGAIN, TO HAVE MILITARY EQUIPMENT, MILITARY PERSONNEL INVOLVED IN THESE I.C.E.

ACTIVITIES IS NOT ONLY WRONG BUT IT'S TRULY --WE'RE VIOLATING CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENS OF LOS ANGELES AND THE STATE RIGHTS OF CALIFORNIA AND ALSO LOCAL GOVERNMENT, THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES DESERVES TO BE THEIR BEST AT RETAINING ORDER HERE.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN NORMA TORRES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> NOW TO GAZA WHERE YET AGAIN DOZENS OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN, HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GUNFIRE NEAR THE CONTROVERSIAL NEW AID SITE.

MEANTIME, SOURCES REPORT A GROWING RIFT BETWEEN PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AND PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, WHO REPORTEDLY HAS TOLD HIS ISRAELI COUNTERPART TO END THE WAR, AND BY THE WAY, STOP THREATENING TO STRIKE IRAN.

PRESSURE IS ALSO MOUNTING INSIDE ISRAEL.

RECENTLY A FORMER PRIME MINISTER PUBLICLY DENOUNCED HIS SUCCESSOR SAYING, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, ISRAEL IS COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.

HIS COMMENTS RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT STILL HAS ARREST WARRANTS OUT FOR TOP ISRAELI OFFICIALS, INCLUDING NETANYAHU.

WHILE THE HAMAS LEADERS IT HAD SOUGHT TO INDICT HAVE ALL BEEN KILLED.

IN THE UNITED STATES, SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO HAS ATTACKED THE COURT, CALLING IT POLITICIZED.

FOUR OF ITS JUDGES.

OUR NEXT GUEST, AN INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, PROSECUTED SOME OF THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS AND VILLAINOUS WAR CRIMINALS, INCLUDING THE FORMER SERBIAN PRESIDENT.

SIR JEFFREY JOINS ME HERE IN LONDON TO REFLECT ON THE MOUNTING WAR CRIMES AND THE STRUGGLE FOR ACCOUNTABILITY.

SO FIRST LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOUR EXPERTISE IS GREAT AND YOU PROSECUTED THESE WAR CRIMES DURING THE POST-BOSNIA WAR PERIOD.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE INCREASING WORDS FROM INSIDE ISRAEL?

ACTUAL ISRAELI OFFICIALS WHO ARE BEGINNING TO SAY LOUDLY AND PUBLICLY THAT WAR CRIMES ARE BEING COMMITTED.

AND LET ME JUST SAY, THE CURRENT DEFENSE MINISTER OF ISRAEL KATZ HAS SAID THE FOOD WAS A MAIN PRESSURE LEVER ON HAMAS.

HOW DO YOU PUT THAT INTO A LEGAL CONTEXT?

>> GENERALLY I THINK PEOPLE ARE ABANDONING THE EXCESSIVE DECORUM THEY SHOWED FOR A YEAR AND A BIT IN DECLINING TO SAY WHAT WAS BECOMING OBVIOUS.

IT HAS SEEMED TO ME FROM AN EARLY STAGE IT WAS CLEAR THAT WAR CRIMES WERE BEING COMMITTED, OR TO BE FAIRER, THERE WAS PLENTY OF EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT WAR CRIMES WERE BEING COMMITTED.

AND THE RESPONSIBILITY IS NOT ON COMMENTATORS LIKE ME, IT'S ON GOVERNMENTS.

AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAYING FAR EARLIER, THESE ARE WAR CRIMES.

THEY DON'T DO IT FAR WHOLE RANGE OF VERY UNHAPPY AND UNSATISFACTORY REASONS, THAT'S THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE SEWING IT.

EVEN EMERGING FROM WITHIN ISRAEL ITSELF, THAT'S PERHAPS FURTHER INDICATION THAT THIS LAG, THIS LAG IN REALITY FROM THE POWERFUL BODIES THAT SHOULD BE SAYING THIS IS A WAR CRIME IS WEARING THIN.

>> SIR GEOFFREY, I COVERED AND WE BROKE THE NEWS WHEN THE ICC PUT OUT ITS REQUEST FOR ARREST WARRANTS AGAINST THREE HAMAS MEMBERS, THE LEADERS OF HAMAS, AND AGAINST, I BELIEVE, TWO ISRAELIS.

IT WAS A PRIME MINISTER AND THEN DEFENSE MINISTER.

AND IT ACTUALLY REVOLVED, AGAIN THEN, AROUND THE ISSUE OF THE TOTAL SIEGE AND BLOCKADE THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

AND THEN THE CONDUCT OF THE WAR AND WHAT THEY SAID WAS INSUFFICIENT PROTECTION OF CIVILIAN LIFE.

DESCRIBE FOR US FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE WHAT I'VE COVERED AND WHAT YOU'VE PROSECUTED.

SIEGE AND FOOD AND STARVATION AS A WEAPON OF WAR.

>> THEY ARE A WEAPON OF WAR.

STARVATION IN PARTICULAR.

AND STARVATION IS A WEAPON OF WAR NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE NOW BUT FOR THE PEOPLE TO COME.

AND ALONG, OF COURSE, WITH ON.

THESE HAVE TO BE VIEWED QUITE BROADLY BECAUSE THEIR CONSEQUENCE IS ALWAYS SO MUCH GREATER THAN THE INSTABILITY CRIME.

IF YOU STARVE PEOPLE, YOU STARVE A FUTURE GENERATION OR KILL A FUTURE GENERATION.

IF YOU HARM OR KILL AID WORKERS, YOU'RE ALSO HARMING OR KILLING THOSE WHO THEY WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO USE THEIR SKILLS TO KEEP ALIVE.

SO ALL THESE CATEGORIES ARE VERY SERIOUS CATEGORIES.

AND APART FROM ENJOYING SPECIAL PROTECTION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, THE PROPORTIONALITY TEST.

WHAT YOU DO HAS TO BE PROPORTIONATE GIVEN THE KNOWN OR FORESEEABLE CONSEQUENCES, COLLATERAL DAMAGE IT'S EUPHEMISTICALLY CALLED.

AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR A COUNTRY TO JUSTIFY THE COLLATERAL DAMAGE THAT FOLLOWS FROM SOMETHING AS GRAVE AS STARVATION.

>> SO LET ME ASK YOU, AGAIN, FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, FORGET THE CULTURAL, THE POLITICAL, THE SOCIAL, THE TRAUMA IN ISRAEL AND NOW IN GAZA, WHAT HAMAS DID ON OCTOBER 7th WAS A WAR CRIME.

>> OF COURSE.

>> SOME PEOPLE SAY IT ALSO AMOUNTED TO GENOCIDE BECAUSE IT WAS ABSOLUTELY DIRECTED AT AN ETHNIC GROUP.

AND YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT PROPORTIONALITY.

AND THIS IS IMPORTANT.

SO I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHY --HOW PROPORTIONALITY MATTERS.

THEY KEEP SAYING IT'S OUR RIGHT TO DESTROY HAMAS.

THERE'S 56,000 DEAD IN GAZA.

THAT IGNORES THE DEAD THAT MAY BE BURIED STILL.

THAT'S 56,000 GAZAN AUTHORITIES.

DOESN'T DISTINGUISH BETWEEN COME BAA COMBATANT S COMBATANTS AND CIVILIANS, BUT THERE'S THOUSANDS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THOSE CHILDREN AREN'T.

>> A FIRST ROUND DOESN'T JUSTIFY WE MUST NEVER UNDERSTATE THE HORROR AND WICKEDNESS AND EVIL OF WHAT WAS DONE IN OCTOBER AND THAT DID GIVE A RIGHT, OBVIOUSLY, TO PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM FURTHER ATTACKS AND, INDEED, TO RECOVER THE HOSTAGES IF AND WHEN THEY COULD.

IT GAVE THEM NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO ATTACK AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD JUSTIFY ATTACKING A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO THEY COULDN'T SHOW WERE HAMAS FIGHTERS IN THE COURSE OF A CONFLICT IS IF THEY COULD SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'VE AIMED AT THIS PARTICULAR PLACE TO KILL THIS PARTICULAR PERSON WHO IS SO IMPORTANT FOR THIS REASON UNLESS WE KILL HIM HE WILL CAUSE THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER.

AND BY THE WAY, WE ACCEPT THAT KILLING 50 PEOPLE, 100 PEOPLE WHO ARE INNOCENT IS PROPORTIONATE.

NOW, THAT HAS TO BE THEIR ARGUMENT.

WE, OF COURSE, HAVE NEVER SEEN THE ARGUMENT FULLY ARTICULATED, BECAUSE YOU RECALL OR THINK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN DECISIONS ARE MADE, MILITARY DECISIONS THESE DAYS, ARE ALL RECORDED.

THEY'RE THE SUBJECT OF LEGAL ADVICE FROM THE TOP PROBABLY IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES.

WE HAVEN'T YET SEEN THE DOCUMENTATION OF THAT, AND THE ONLY ANALYSIS BY ISRAEL HAS BEEN SOMEWHAT SUPERFICIAL.

WHAT WE NEED TO SEE IS THEIR PRECISE JUSTIFICATION WITH PROPORTIONALITY IN MIND TO JUSTIFY THIS NUMBER OF INNOCENT DEAD IS JUSTIFIED IN PROPORTIONATE TERMS BY KILLING THIS PARTICULAR PEOPLE.

>> I'M GOING TO PLAY A SOUND BITE FROM THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER AND ALSO READ A COUPLE MORE THINGS FROM ISRAELIS ALSO IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION AS WELL.

HERE HE IS ON OUR PROGRAM.

>> WHAT IS IT IF NOT A WAR CRIME?

I MEAN, HOW CAN A SERIOUS PERSON REPRESENTING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CAN SPELL IT OUT IN SUCH AN EXPLICIT MANNER THAT WE SHOULD STARVE GAZA, THE GROUP WHICH ARE NOW REPRESENTING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT INSIDE ISRAEL AND ACROSS THE WORLD COMMITTING ACTIONS WHICH CAN'T BE INTERPRETED IN ANY OTHER WAY.

>> SO HOW IMPORTANT IS IT IN THE RECORD, IF THERE EVER ARE TO BE ANY TRIALS, OF THAT KIND OF STATEMENT?

AND LET ME ADD ALSO, A FORMER CHIEF HAS WRITTEN AN ARTICLE, CALLED THIS CURRENT WAR USELESS, IT'S NOT ACHIEVING ITS END, ANOTHER CALLED THE WAR DECEPTION, SAYING THEY LIED ABOUT ACHIEVEMENTS.

IT'S NOT SUCCEEDING IN DESTROYING HAMAS.

ANYWAY, THEN I'LL GET TO THE LEGAL.

>> THESE STATEMENTS ARE MORE IMPORTANT, OBVIOUSLY, TO MINORITY COMMENTATORS.

THEY'RE NOT AS GOOD AS THE STATEMENT EMERGING FROM A MEETING OF THE CABINET THAT ACTUALLY MAKES THE DECISION AND SAYS SUCH A THING.

BUT MY GOODNESS, IT'S PRETTY VALUABLE TO HAVE THIS PROXIMITY OR PEOPLE WITH THIS PROXIMITY TO POWER AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF POWER TO BE SAYING THESE WHETHER IT WOULD AMOUNT TO ANYTHING IN EVIDENCE IN COURT IS ANOTHER MATTER.

THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE BASIS UPON WHICH THEY MADE THEIR JUDGEMENT.

BUT IT'S VERY VALUABLE.

>> AND I WANT TO ASK YOU, I'M GOING TO QUOTE A FORMER HEAD OF THE IDF INTERNATIONAL LAW UNIT.

SHE'S ALWAYS DEFENDED ISRAEL IN INTERNATIONAL COURTS AND THE MEDIA, BUT IN A RECENT ESSAY THAT SHE CO-AUTHORED, SHE WROTE THAT ISRAEL IS CROSSING RED LINES, EVEN IN WAR AGAINST A BRUTAL ENEMY, AND WITHOUT FORGETTING THE HORRORS OF OCTOBER 7th AND THE CONTINUED CAPTIVITY OF HOSTAGES, THERE ARE RED LINES.

FORCED DISPLACEMENT OF CIVILIANS WITH THE INTENT OF DRIVING THEM OUT OF GAZA IS ONE SUCH RED LINE.

DEPRIVING CIVILIANS OF LIFE-SAVING NECESSITIES AND CROWDING THEM INTO AREAS IS ANOTHER.

IF THE POLITICAL ECHELON INSTRUCTS THE MILITARY TO CARRY OUT SEVERE CRIMES, THESE ARE ILLEGAL ORDERS THAT IDF COMMANDERS ARE DUTY BOUND TO DISOBEY.

SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PRETTY INTENSE.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, WHAT HAPPENS?

WHAT IS THE RISK THAT AN IDF COMMANDER OR A SOLDIER CARRYING OUT THE LAWS, WHAT IS THE RISK TO THEIR LEGAL STATUS IN THE FUTURE?

>> IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEY PRESUME TO KNOW THE LAW AND ACT WITHIN IT.

IN REALITY IT MUST BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR SOLDIERS IF THEY'RE IN A PLATOON OR A COMPANY AND THE ETHOS MOVES TOWARDS KILLING PEOPLE IN A WAY THAT'S UNLAWFUL.

WHAT WE MUST HOPE IS THAT IF AND WHEN THE POSSIBILITY COMES TO ACHIEVE AN ACCOUNTABILITY OF OVERALL THAT REGARD IS GIVEN TO PEOPLE FURTHER UP THE CHAIN, BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THE PEOPLE FURTHER UP THE CHAIN WHO CREATE THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THE PERSON AT THE BOTTOM MAY TECHNICALLY BREAK THE LAW.

>> THE FAMOUS CHAIN OF COMMAND, AND YOU HAVE TO PROVE THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT, RIGHT, DURING THE PROSECUTION OF THE BUTCHER OF THE BALKANS AND WHAT HE DID IN PARTS OF FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, INCLUDING THE MASSACRE THROUGH THE BOSNIAN SERBS.

JUST REFLECT ON THE FACT THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO INDICT HIM ALMOST 30 YEARS SINCE THE MASSACRE.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CASES YOU PROSECUTED, I MEAN, HAVE STOOD THE TEST OF TIME?

BECAUSE STUFF IS STILL GOING ON.

>> THE TRIAL ENDED WITHOUT A VERDICT.

>> YEAH.

>> BECAUSE HE DIED.

>> HE DIED, YEAH.

>> JUST TOUCHING ON YOUR EARLIER POINT, THE CHAIN OF COMMAND IS NEARLY ALWAYS THERE.

YOU CAN FIND TRACES IN VIETNAM, BUT WHICH PRIVATE, SERGEANT, LIEUTENANT IS GOING TO GO AGAINST THE KNOWN CULTURE AND ORDERS AND PUT HIMSELF AT RISK NOT JUST FOR BEING DEALT WITH INTERNATIONALLY BUT, INDEED, FOR BEING DEALT WITH NATIONALLY.

SO THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WILL BE THERE.

IT'S ALWAYS A QUESTION OF JUST FINDING IT.

AS TO WHETHER THE CASE HAS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME, MOST OF THEM I THINK STAND AS THE RECORD OF EVENTS.

IF YOU MEAN --A RELATIVELY LIMITED NUMBER ARRIVING ON THE FACTUAL FINDING OF THE JUDGES, BUT IF YOU MEAN THEY HAVEN'T STOP -- >> OR WARS HAVE RULES.

>> --STOP THE NEXT GENERATION.

THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF THAT.

HOWEVER, AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS IN MIND, INVESTIGATIONS MAY.

AND ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING POINTS, IF YOU JUST GIVE ME THIS MINUTE TO SAY IT.

>> 30 SECONDS.

>> ONE OF THE PEOPLE INDICTED FROM HAMAS TOLD ME THAT HE WAS WILLING TO BE INVESTIGATED.

THEY WERE, THEY GAVE EIGHT YEARS PASSED WHEN THEY WERE WILLING TO BE INVESTIGATED BEFORE THE DREADFUL EVENTS HAPPENED WHICH SHOWED THEIR STATE OF MIND HAD CHANGED.

IF THE INVESTIGATION HAD BEEN FULLY SUPPORTED BY THE WEST, THEN HAMAS WOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED FROM ITS WILLINGNESS TO BE INVESTIGATED.

BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN ITS INTEREST.

>> BEST INTEREST, YEAH.

IF THERE'D BEEN PUBLICITY AND SUPPORT, UNLIKE TRUMP TRYING TO KILL THE ICC RIGHT THROUGH THAT PERIOD FROM '15 TO '18, THESE THINGS MIGHT NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

THIS INVESTIGATION WORKS.

>> THAT'S SOBERING.

GEOFFREY NICE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REAL OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE.

>>> NOW TO THE CRACKDOWN ON HISTORY ITSELF, FROM REMOVING MUSEUM EXHIBITS ON AMERICAN SLAVERY TO PAINTING OVER WASHINGTON, D.C.,'S BLACK LIVES MATTER MURAL.

SCHOLARS AND ACTIVISTS SAY TRUMP'S DEI PURGE IS MINIMIZING AND EVEN ERASING BLACK HISTORY.

AND OUR NEXT GUEST IS ACUTELY AWARE OF THE IMPACT.

MONROE NICHOLS IS MAYOR OF TULSA, OKLAHOMA.

HIS NEW INITIATIVE, ROAD TO REPAIR, WOULD GRANT THE CITY'S BLACK COMMUNITY OVER $100 MILLION TO ADDRESS HARMS CAUSED BY THE TULSA RACE MASSACRE OF 1921.

AND MAYOR NICHOLS JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN.

>> THANKS.

MAYOR, NICHOLS, SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> BEFORE WE GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THE PROJECT IN TULSA, I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK A LITTLE BIT.

YOU WERE ACTUALLY BORN IN WACO, TEXAS.

YOU MOVED TO OKLAHOMA TO GO TO COLLEGE AND ALSO TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

BUT MAINLY TO GO TO COLLEGE.

>> RIGHT.

>> I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT THE TULSA RACE MASSACRE.

BECAUSE THIS WAS AN HISTORICAL EVENT THAT FOR SOME PEOPLE, CLEARLY NOT FOR SURVIVORS AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED THROUGH IT, BUT FOR MANY PEOPLE HAD BEEN KIND OF LOST TO HISTORY.

HAVE HEARD OF THIS WHAT HAPPENED.

>> YEAH.

>> AND PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU FIRST HEARD HAD HAPPENED VERSUS WHAT YOU LEARNED LATER.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, WHAT I FIRST HEARD HAPPENED IS JUST THAT THERE WAS THIS RIOT IN TULSA WHERE BLACK WALL STREET WAS DESTROYED.

THAT WAS LIKE THE BASIS OF THE KNOWLEDGE, RIGHT?

AND SO I DIDN'T HAVE MUCH BEYOND THAT.

BUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WERE WATCHING, WHAT EXISTED IN TULSA AT ONE TIME WAS AN ENTREPRENEURIAL CENTER.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE A CITY WITHIN A CITY WHERE YOU HAD MOVIE THEATERS AND GROCERY STORES AND DOCTOR'S OFFICES AND ATTORNEY'S OFFICES AND SCHOOLS AND CHURCHES THAT ALL THRIVED IN WHAT WAS A VERY SEGREGATED SOCIETY HERE IN TULSA, OKLAHOMA.

THE GREENWOOD DISTRICT WOULD BECOME KNOWN AS BLACK WALL STREET BECAUSE OF ALL THE COMMERCE IN AND OUT OF THIS PART OF OUR COMMUNITY.

24-HOUR PERIOD, A MASSACRE THAT SAW A WHITE MOB COME TO GREENWOOD AND BURN DOWN, BURN TO THE GROUND AROUND 37 BLOCKS, ABOUT 1,200 BLACK BUSINESSES AND HOMES, AND LEFT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HOMELESS AND SOME EVEN PUT INTO CAMPS.

THE DEATH TOLL WAS BELIEVED TO BE OVER 300, ALTHOUGH ONLY REPORTED AS 36 AT THE TIME BY LOCAL OFFICIALS.

AND IT IS THE ONLY DOCUMENTED AERIAL ASSAULT ON AN AMERICAN CITY IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY.

SO IT WAS A MASSACRE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS, AND IT DESTROYED WHAT WAS PERHAPS THE GREATEST EXAMPLE OF BLACK EXCELLENCE IN ECONOMICS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP THAT THE COUNTRY HAD SEEN AT THE TIME.

AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT 24-HOUR PERIOD FROM MAY 31st TO JUNE 1st.

>> THE ONLY SORT OF MINOR EDIT I WOULD MAKE TO THAT IS PEOPLE MAY REMEMBER THAT THERE'S THIS -- THERE WAS A NEIGHBORHOOD IN PHILADELPHIA THAT WAS ALSO BOMBED BY -- >> SURE.

THERE WAS SORT OF A BLACK RADICAL GROUP THAT HAD TAKEN UP RESIDENCE THERE.

BUT THAT IS ALSO SEEN AS A MODERN ATROCITY.

BUT HERE'S THE OTHER THING.

YOU SAID IT, YOU HAD INITIALLY HEARD OF THIS AS A RIOT.

AND IT HAS NOW BEEN KNOWN AS A MASSACRE.

AND THERE'S A REAL REASON THAT THAT MATTERS.

COULD YOU JUST EXPLAIN WHY THAT MATTERS SO MUCH.

IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF WORDS.

THE NOMENCLATURE.

IT'S NOT JUST A MATTER OF WHICH WORD.

IT HAS REAL FORCE.

>> ABSOLUTELY IT HAS REAL FORCE.

IT WAS IN SOME WAYS A MATTER OF LEGALITY.

A RIOT MEANT THAT IT WAS EASIER TO DENY INSURANCE CLAIMS FOR FOLKS WHO HAD LOST HOMES AND BUSINESSES.

YOU KNOW, AND HONESTLY, HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE ESCAPE CULPABILITY.

NOT ONE PERSON WENT TO JAIL BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR INVOLVEMENT.

UNTIL THIS DAY, NOT ONE GOVERNMENT HAS REPAID BACK TO HELP REBUILD IN WAYS THAT WERE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH BRINGING BACK WHAT WAS LOST.

THERE WERE PROMISES MADE TO DO THAT, EVEN DIRECTLY AFTER THE MASSACRE.

DID NOT HAPPEN.

SO NAMING IT A RIOT ALL THESE YEARS MEANT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT GOT TO ESCAPE CULPABILITY, BOTH ON THE INDIVIDUAL SIDE AND THE PUBLIC INSTITUTIONAL SIDE.

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL, YOU KNOW, MORE ABOUT THIS CAME OUT THAT IT WAS CLEAR THIS WAS NOT A RIOT.

THIS WAS A SLAUGHTERING OF A PEOPLE BECAUSE WE NOW KNOW THE NUMBERS.

WE NOW KNOW WHAT WAS LOST.

WE KNOW NOW WHAT WAS REFUSED TO BE RESTORED, FOR EXAMPLE.

IT WAS CERTAINLY A MASSACRE OF EPIC PROPORTIONS.

AND TO YOUR POINT ABOUT PHILADELPHIA AND OTHER PLACES, I THINK THE OTHER GREAT THING ABOUT UNCOVERING OUR HISTORY IS THAT WE KNOW ABOUT OTHER PLACES WHERE THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPENED.

MAYBE NOT AT THE SAME SCALE WHERE YOU HAVE 300 DEAD, BUT WILMINGTON, NORTH CAROLINA'S ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF A PLACE WHERE THIS STUFF HAPPENED.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT AS WE CONSIDER WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE GREENWOOD TRUST THAT WE FIND GOOD MODELS FOR HOW YOU BEGIN TO MITIGATE THE HARM.

BECAUSE IT EXISTS.

THE LEGACY OF THE MASSACRE IS VERY PALPABLE IN TULSA.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THAT, BUT THERE'S A SUBTLENESS ABOUT IT THAT STILL HAS THIS COMMUNITY KIND OF HELD BY THE CHANGE OF DIVISION IN WAYS THAT JUST PREVENT YOU FROM UNITING IN THE WAY THAT YOU NEED TO UNITE TO MEET THE OTHER BIG CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE, THAT EVERYBODY FACES TOGETHER.

AND SO I DO THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, EVEN IN THIS MOMENT IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY, THAT WE'RE VERY HONEST ABOUT THE ROAD THAT IT'S TAKEN TO GET HERE AND THAT WE FIND WAYS TO MITIGATE HARM, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I THINK WE CAN APPROPRIATELY MOVE FORWARD.

>> SO LET'S BRING IT TO THE PRESENT MOMENT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF ATTENTION PAID TO THE TULSA RACE MASSACRE ON THE CENTENNIAL OF IT BACK IN 2021, WHICH ACKNOWLEDGED THE HUNDRED YEARS AFTER.

THERE'S STILL SOME PEOPLE WHO'D SURVIVED WHO WERE OBVIOUSLY VERY SMALL CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, AT THE THERE WAS A LOT OF ENERGY AROUND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT TO DO.

BUT NOTHING REALLY HAPPENED.

THERE WERE NEGOTIATIONS AROUND SOME KIND OF RECOMPENSE, DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NOW WE'RE THREE YEARS LATER AND YOU ANNOUNCED A MAJOR INITIATIVE TO KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE I'LL LET YOU DESCRIBE IT.

BECAUSE IT'S A VERY COMPREHENSIVE PROJECT.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HAVE IN MIND?

>> YEAH.

SO JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT, YOU MENTIONED THE CENTENNIAL BACK IN 2021, AND GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2001 THERE WAS A STATE COMMISSION THAT RECOMMENDED CERTAIN THINGS THE STATE SHOULD DO TO ADDRESS THE HARM CAUSED BY THE 1921 TULSA RACE MASSACRE.

SINCE THEN WE'VE HAD A COMMISSION OF BEYOND THE APOLOGY COMMISSION THAT WAS CREATED BY MY PREDECESSOR TO COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS.

WE HAVE ADVOCACY GROUPS LIKE JUSTICE FOR GREENWOOD AND THE DIG GREENWOOD FOUNDATION WHERE I ARRIVED AT WAS THE GREENWOOD TRUST A PRIVATE CHARITABLE TRUST I'M GOING OUT AND RAISING CAPITAL FOR.

$105 MILLION REFLECTIVE OF THE $24 MILLION RECOMMENDATION FROM BEYOND THE APOLOGY COMMISSION, MADE UP OF DESCENDANTS AROUND HOUSING AND HOMEOWNERSHIP.

A $60 MILLION FUND INVESTED DIRECTLY INTO CULTURAL LANDMARKS AND THEIR SURVIVING ENTITIES FROM THE MASSACRE.

THERE ARE SOME BUILDINGS THAT STILL STAND.

SO MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE INVESTIGATING THOSE, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALWAYS IN THE BEST CONDITION FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT WE KNOW HAPPENS OVER TIME.

AND THEN ALSO INVEST IN THE FUTURE BY INVESTING IN COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS AND BUSINESS GRANTS AND NO-INTEREST LOANS TO BUSINESSES THAT ARE OWNED BY DESCENDANTS SO THAT IN THE END NOT ONLY ARE WE MITIGATING HARM BUT WE'RE ENSURING THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO HAVE THOSE SAME FAMILIES, THOSE DESCENDANTS REBUILD THE DISTRICT BACK TO WHERE IT WAS.

>> SO A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.

LOT OF PRIVATE MONEY.

YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN DO IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WE CAN DO IT.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS UP HERE.

WE'RE SPENDING A YEAR REALLY PLANNING TO SET THE PROGRAMS, APPOINT TRUSTEES, A BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

THAT'LL BE NATIONAL AND LOCAL.

AND THEN WE'RE ALSO EVALUATING WHAT PUBLIC ASSETS WE HAVE THAT THE TRUST CAN BE A BENEFICIARY OF.

SO THERE'S PARTS OF THE GREENWOOD DISTRICT THAT THE CITY OWNS LAND IN, AND AS WE DEVELOP, THE PROCEEDS FROM THOSE DEVELOPMENTS CAN GO BACK INTO THE TRUST.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO BALANCE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE POLITICAL REALITIES OF WHERE YOU'RE AT.

YOU'VE GOT ONE SCHOOL OF FOLKS WHO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE MASSACRE WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, RIGHT?

YOU'VE GOT THAT GOING.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE WHO SAY, WELL, 104 YEARS LATER, WE REALLY NEED DIRECT CASH PAYMENT SO.

YOU'RE BALANCING THESE TWO THINGS.

AND SO THE THOUGHT IS, WHAT DO WE HAVE IN THE WAY OF ASSETS THAT WHEN DEVELOPED CAN PRODUCE TO FEED INTO THE TRUST.

SO THERE'S OBVIOUSLY SKIN IN THE GAME FROM THE PUBLIC SIDE.

BUT THE IDEA IS IF WE CAN CREATE THE KIND OF ECONOMIC ACTIVITY WITH THOSE ASSETS, WITH PRIVATE CAPITAL, WE CAN GET TO A SPACE WHERE THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE OF THE SCHOOL OF THOUGHT, WHO BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULDN'T PAY, UNDERSTOOD.

THAT'S FINE.

WE DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE INVESTMENTS.

WE'RE GOING TO DO IT BOTH PRIVATELY, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO IT THROUGH THE WAY OF USING PUBLIC ASSETS.

>> SO YOU WERE FIRST ELECTED IN 2024, AS I UNDERSTAND, YOU JUST TOOK OFFICE IN 2024.

>> JUST TOOK OFFICE IN DECEMBER.

>> AND I WANT TO SAY YOU'RE ALSO THE FIRST BLACK MAYOR OF TULSA.

>> CORRECT.

>> AND IS THAT WHY YOU RAN, IN PART, TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

TO CREATE THIS KIND OF ENERGY AROUND IT?

>> NO.

IT ACTUALLY WASN'T.

I MEAN, I RAN --SO OUR CITY IS DEALING WITH A NUMBER OF CHALLENGES.

I RAN ON ENDING HOMELESSNESS IN SIX YEARS, IMPROVING STUDENT OUTCOMES, EXPANDING OUR ECONOMY, MAKING TULSA SAFEST BIG CITY IN WITH TRIBAL NATIONS.

TULSA IS THE LARGEST CITY IN THE COUNTRY THAT'S ALL RESERVATIONS.

ABOUT TEN DAYS AFTER I GOT ELECTED ALL THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO MITIGATE HARM HIT YOUR DESK.

YOU HAVE A DECISION TO MAKE, ARE YOU GOING TO IGNORE THEM?

ARE YOU GOING TO PUT THEM ASIDE AND SAY THESE THINGS ARE IMPOSSIBLE?

OR ARE YOU GOING TO LEAN INTO IT?

MY SENSE IS THAT THE FOUR THINGS I MENTIONED FOR THE REASONS THAT I RAN FOR MAYOR, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE POSSIBLE UNLESS YOU DO THIS.

COMMUNITIES WHO ARE DIVIDED OR WHO HAVE THIS UNRESOLVED TRAUMA HAVE A HARD TIME MEETING THE NEED ON ALL THESE OTHER BIG CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE.

I THINK WE SEE THIS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO THE GREENWOOD TRUST, ALTHOUGH VERY MUCH FOCUSED ON THE DESCENDANT COMMUNITY AND MITIGATING HARM, I THINK IT'S CRITICAL TO MEET THOSE OTHER GOALS, WHICH IS WHY I RAN FOR OFFICE.

>> YOU SAID IN A SPEECH YOU GAVE ANNOUNCING THE TRUST OR THE -- YOUR SORT OF PLANS FOR THE TRUST, YOU SAID, THERE IS NOT ONE TULSAN REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR WHO WOULDN'T BE BETTER OFF TODAY HAD THE MASSACRE NOT HAPPENED OR IF GENERATIONS BEFORE HAD DONE THE WORK TO RESTORE WHAT WAS LOST.

WILL YOU SAY MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK WE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE EXCEPTION TO SOME OF THOSE THINGS YOU SEE ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

NOT EVERY PLACE HAD A GREENWOOD DISTRICT, RIGHT?

NOT EVERY PLACE HAD THAT KIND OF EXAMPLE AT THAT KIND OF SCALE OF FOLKS BEATING THE ODDS EVEN IN A SEGREGATED SOCIETY.

SO IMAGINE IF THAT HAD GONE UNINTERRUPTED WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE TODAY.

IMAGINE THE NUMBER OF AFRICAN AMERICANS ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY NOW WHO HAVE SOME ORIGINS TO TULSA WHO WOULD HAVE STAYED HERE BUT WHO LEFT AFTER THE MASSACRE.

IMAGINE ALL THOSE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN DRAWN HERE BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC VITALITY OF THIS COMMUNITY.

AND IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE MEANT FOR OUR CITY'S ECONOMY OVERALL.

WE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN SOME WAYS THE EXCEPTION OF A LOT OF PLACES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND SO I SAY BECAUSE OF THE MASSACRE, BECAUSE WE HAD THE GREENWOOD DISTRICT, IT CERTAINLY PROBLEMS FROM AN ECONOMIC STANDPOINT WERE MANMADE, BROUGHT ON BY THE MASSACRE IN A LOT OF WAYS, RIGHT?

WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLOSE THE WEALTH GAP HAD THE MASSACRE NEVER HAPPEN.

WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLOSE THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP HAD THE MASSACRE NEVER HAPPENED.

AND WE TRADED THAT.

WE TRADED THAT OPPORTUNITY TO BE THAT SHINING EXAMPLE OF HOW A CITY CAN THRIVE FOR EVERYBODY ON MAY 31st AND JUNE 1st OF 1921.

I STILL DO BELIEVE THAT THERE'S NOT ONE PERSON IN THE CITY WHO WOULDN'T BE BETTER OFF HAD THAT NOT HAPPENED.

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE THE PRETEXT FOR THE MASSACRE WAS, LIKE SO MANY OTHER INSTANCES OF VIOLENCE DIRECTED AT BLACK PEOPLE, WAS AN INCIDENT WHERE IT WAS ALLEGED A WHITE WOMAN WAS MISTREATED, OKAY?

BUT IN THE LIGHT OF HISTORY, THE ARGUMENT HAS SUBSEQUENTLY, SOME PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE, THAT THE REASON WHY THIS VIOLENCE TOOK ON THIS KIND OF VICIOUS MASS QUALITY WAS JEALOUSY.

IT WAS ECONOMIC JEALOUSY.

>> YEAH.

>> THERE WAS A CERTAIN COHORT OF PEOPLE WHO COULDN'T TOLERATE THE FACT THAT BLACK PEOPLE IN GREENWOOD WERE AS SUCCESSFUL AS THEY WERE.

THOSE FOLKS HAVE DESCENDANTS TOO.

AND SO THE QUESTION BECOMES DO YOU THINK YOU CAN PERSUADE THOSE DESCENDANTS THAT ALL THESE YEARS LATER EVEN THEY WILL BE BETTER OFF IF THESE INITIATIVES TAKE PLACE?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK I WOULD TELL THE FOLKS WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, WHO DESCEND FROM THOSE FAMILIES WHO WERE MORE OF THE PERPETRATOR SIDE OF THE MASSACRE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BENEFITTED A GREAT DEAL.

THEY WOULDN'T HAVE THE LEGACY OF SOMETHING SO HORRIBLE AS A STAIN ON THEIR FAMILY'S HISTORY.

THEY COULD TALK ABOUT OPENLY THEIR FAMILY'S HISTORY WITH PRIDE.

AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS ALSO TAKEN FROM THOSE FAMILIES.

I BELIEVE THAT TULSA'S A MUCH DIFFERENT PLACE.

I KNOW TULSA'S A MUCH DIFFERENT PLACE IN 2025 THAN IT WAS IN 1921.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE MESSAGE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT?

WE ARE NOT THAT FAR REMOVED FROM THE MASSACRE IN A LOT OF WAYS.

THERE'S STILL TWO SURVIVORS THAT LIVE TODAY.

I JUST VISITED MOTHER FLETCHER AND MOTHER RANDALL LAST WEDNESDAY.

MOTHER FLETCHER IS VERY SHARP.

SHE'S 111, BUT SHE IS HERE.

YOU KNOW, THESE --SOMETIMES I THINK WE THINK ABOUT HISTORY AND WE SEE BLACK AND WHITE PICTURES AND THINK, OH MY GOODNESS, THAT WAS SUCH A LONG TIME AGO.

IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO, RIGHT?

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE OVERARCHING KIND OF CONTEXT OF HISTORY.

SO YEAH, I WOULD ABSOLUTELY TELL THOSE FOLKS THEY MORE SO THAN ALMOST ANYBODY WOULD BE BETTER OFF HAD THE MASSACRE NOT HAPPENED.

BUT I THINK IT SHOULD ALSO REINFORCE IN THEM THIS NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, RIGHT?

I THINK WHEN I THINK ABOUT RESTORATION AND RIGHTEOUSNESS, IT'S ALSO ABOUT GETTING RIGHT WITH THAT FAMILY HISTORY THAT THOSE FOLKS MIGHT HAVE.

I DON'T BLAME THEM NO MORE THAN NOT A QUESTION OF BLAME.

BUT IT IS A QUESTION OF COURAGE.

DO WE HAVE THE COURAGE TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFICULT TO DO AT A TIME WHERE IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO IT?

DO WE HAVE THE COURAGE ACROSS THE TRAINING TRACKS TO TALK ABOUT THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF OUR NEIGHBORS IN A WAY IS THAT WE HAVEN'T DONE BEFORE.

I THINK WHEN YOU DO THAT, IT MAKES THE GREENWOOD TRUST A VERY EASY SALE, RIGHT?

WHEN YOU JUST BEGIN TO BIND THOSE OLD WOUNDS, IT MAKES STUFF INCREDIBLY EASY.

>> MAYOR, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, THIS INITIATIVE ARRIVES AT A REALLY INTERESTING TIME WHEN SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL THIS A BACKLASH MOMENT TO THESE KINDS OF INITIATIVES.

DO YOU SEE HEAD WINDS AT THIS POINT?

>> SIGNIFICANT HEAD WINDS, BUT SO MUCH OF THAT IS LESS ABOUT THE NATIONAL CONTEXT.

BECAUSE WE'VE HAD TIMES WHERE ONE COULD ARGUE IT HAD BEEN A BETTER TIME TO HAVE A CONVERSATION LIKE THIS, BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN THEN EITHER.

THERE'S NEVER BEEN A RIGHT TIME CONVERSATION, SO I THINK YOU JUST GOT TO MEET WIT A WHOLE LOT OF HONESTY AND TRANSPARENCY AND NOT BE AFRAID TO TALK ABOUT IT IN CERTAIN SPACES.

AGAIN, AND I SAID THIS IN A SPEECH LAST SUNDAY, THIS IS NOT AN EFFORT TO ASSIGN BLAME.

THIS IS AN EFFORT TO ADDRESS THE HARM CAUSED BY AN EVENT THAT IS A HISTORICAL FACT.

AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE RELEASED THE 45,000 PAGES OF UNRELEASED DOCUMENTS THAT WE'RE SITTING ON.

THAT'S WHY WE CONTINUE THE GRAYS INVESTIGATION, BECAUSE FAMILIES DESERVE CLOSURE.

PEOPLE JUST NEED CLOSURE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR LOVED ONE.

EVEN IN A MOMENT LIKE THIS, THINK ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US.

WHILE EVERYBODY'S HAVING A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CONVERSATION ABOUT RACE, IMAGINE IF TULSA, ALL OF US, CAME TOGETHER AND WE MADE THIS HAPPEN.

JUST LIKE I SAY WE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN OUTLIER HAD THE GREENWOOD DISTRICT REMAINED UNINTERRUPTED, WE WOULD ALSO BE AN OUTLIER NATIONALLY HOW PEOPLE OF ALL DIFFERENT STRIDES, POLITICAL, RACES, WE'RE GOING TO DO WHAT WE CAN WITH THE CONSTRAINTS WE HAVE TO MAKE THESE INVESTMENTS.

IT HELPS US STAND OUT THE WAYS I WANT TULSA TO STAND OUT.

THIS GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SURE THAT JUNE 1st WASN'T THE END OF THE STORY.

WE GET TO RIGHT NEW CHAPTERS ON IT IN A WAY THAT I THINK WE PROVIDE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WITH A PATHWAY, HOW YOU CAN ENGAGE THESE KIND OF CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTION TO MAKE.

BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT US GETTING RIGHT WITH OURSELVES AND MAKING SURE WE CAN MOVE THIS COMMUNITY FORWARD AS ONE BIG UNITED CITY.

AND SO IF WE HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK BACK 104 YEARS TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE GO FORWARD TOMORROW, THAT'S AN INVESTMENT OF TIME AND EFFORT THAT'S WELL WORTH IT.

>> MR. MAYOR, MONROE NICHOLS IV, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>>> AND FINALLY, AN ART REUNIFIED GERMANY HAS BEEN BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE 30 YEARS LATER.

IN 1995 AN ARTIST AND HIS WIFE COVERED IT IN FABRIC AND ROPE.

IT WAS BURNED DOWN DURING NAZI RULE AND REDESIGNED FOR THE NEW GERMANY.

THE FABRIC BROUGHT A SOFTNESS TO THIS MONUMENT TO POWER.

NOW IT'S GETTING REWRAPPED, BUT THIS TIME IT'S BATHED IN LIGHT WHICH CASCADES OVER THE WHOLE BUILDING.

A FEW YEARS AGO I SPOKE WITH HIM, ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST AUDACIOUS AND ORIGINAL ARTISTS, ABOUT HIS BEGINNINGS AS A REFUGEE AND WHAT IT TAUGHT HIM ABOUT FREEDOM.

>> I WAS 21 WHEN I ESCAPED.

PROBABLY I WAS UNCONSCIOUS BUT TOTALLY EAGER TO DO WHAT I DO IN ART.

I WAS ART STUDENT, ART ACADEMY.

AND STILL TODAY I WILL NOT MOVE ONE MILLIMETER OF MY FREEDOM.

THIS IS WHY EVERYTHING I DO IS MYSELF.

NOBODY ASK US TO WRAP IT, NOBODY ASK US TO DO THE GATE, NOBODY ASKED US TO DO IT HERE.

FOR THAT THING TO HAVE TOTAL FREEDOM.

>> YOU'RE PRETTY HARD LINE WHEN IT COMES TO FREEDOM.

YOU WON'T COMPROMISE.

>> NO, NOT AT ALL.

>> WHAT A GREAT MAN.

HE WAS IN LONDON THEN WRAPPING WHAT WOULD BE HIS LAST PROJECT BEFORE HE DIED ON THE SERP TINE IN HYDE PARK.

HE DIED IN 2020 AGED 84.

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