[Woman singing] [Playing "Black Magic Woman"] Carlos Santana, voice-over: Music and love are for me inseparable.

They work together and channel each other.

Through music and through life, I have come to learn that love is our natural state, that love empowers us and connects us.

Welcome to "Global Spirit."

I'm Carlos Santana.

And I'm Cindy Blackman Santana, and we are here to invite you to a very, very special conversation that we had with our friends Gerry and Diane Jampolsky, and it's called "Love, Fear, and Beyond."

So let's sit back and join our guide and host Phil Cousineau for a journey into another dimension, "Global Spirit," the first internal travel series.

Cousineau: The Haight-Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco.

This is where poetry, music, psychedelic drugs, and spirituality all came together in a unique way during the late sixties and seventies to spark a global countercultural movement.

Around the corner from this neighborhood record store lived some of rock music's most revered bands-- the Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Janis Joplin, Carlos Santana.

These and other musicians helped define the San Francisco sound.

The experimental drugs and lifestyle took their toll.

Some survived, some didn't.

Those who recognized art's higher function took their music to a spiritual level, helping to fuel a growing Bay Area consciousness movement.

Carlos Santana--often credited with creating a new sound called Latin rock-- came of age in this movement... yet now almost 50 years after his legendary performance at Woodstock, followed by decades of platinum records and Grammy Awards, Carlos Santana's international fame has not prevented him from being what he has always been, a consciousness seeker who believes that divine love is the driving force in the universe and that music can provide the spiritual power to change the world.

[Playing "Europa"] His wife Cindy Blackman Santana has the same passion.

Cindy lives and performs at the intersection of her musical gifts, God, and the beat, playing both with Carlos and with her own jazz band.

Between them, Cindy and Carlos have studied a variety of spiritual traditions from Christian to Bahá'í, Kabbalah, and Hindu philosophy with the Indian guru and musician Scri Chimnoy.

For the last several years, Carlos and Cindy have studied with Gerry Jampolsky and Diane Cirincione, who are authors and therapists in the Bay Area.

From their houseboat in San Francisco Bay, this couple has launched a global healing campaign in over 50 countries based on the understanding of the relationship between love and fear.

These 4 close friends have agreed to join us for a truly unique program and conversation.

Welcome to "Global Spirit: Love, Fear, and Beyond."

Welcome to "Global Spirit," Cindy Blackman Santana.

Welcome to "Global Spirit," Carlos Santana.

Welcome, Dr. Diane Cirincione-Jampolsky, and welcome, Gerry Jampolsky.

It's a pleasure to bring the 4 of you together.

Years ago, I was blessed to be able to be in Paris for Raymond Carver's last book reading, and that night, Carver wrote a short story that has gone on to inspire many filmmakers, including Robert Altman's "Short Cuts" and the recent "Birdman," and it's a short story called "What We're Talking About When We Talk About Love."

So let's start there in a spirit of inquiry and humility, rather than thinking we have the answers about love already.

Cindy, what are we talking about when we talk about love?

I think we're talking about unity, no divide, no separation, um, unconditional caring and understanding.

Um... because we--we, I think, are taught from very early on that things are supposed to be separate.

We have so many examples of that in society, you know, and we've seen it in many different areas and many different ways, whether it's, um, slavery, whether it's segregation, whether it's, um, any kind of divide that we have, and so that's kind of ingrained in our brains, um, but it's not the truth.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Diane, would you like to pick up on that?

I like that Cindy took it right to the top, you know right to the top, the place of love.

When I think of love, I think of it with a capital "L," that which is, that which is the creation force of all of us, that which brings us together, keeps us together in the knowledge that we are together, that we are one.

Carlos: Yeah.

Gerry, what are we talking about when we talk about love?

We're talking about something that doesn't have words.

It's interesting that, uh, really the--the most important word in the world is "love."

it's our own reality, and yet it's still indefinable with words.

We can talk about certain aspects of it, but, um, the ego kind of love is sort of a bargain.

You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours type of thing, and it's-- that ego love creates a lot of fear.

People become fearful of love, being hurt by love, but when we're talking about the love that comes from our source, the love that created all of us, um, we're talking about a consciousness that has no bodies, no interpretations, no judgments, no one trying to hurt anybody, our feeling is that the source that we're talking about has no cruelty, only kindness.

Carlos, this make sense to you?

Love seems to be such a common pulse in your music over the years.

Does it drive you, as well?

Totally, you know.

There, um-- probably the most significant, uh, two songs for me is "A Love Supreme," and "One Love," Bob Marley and John Coltrane.

They will be recognized as the most... collective commonality in this planet.

Like, "Global Spirit, I look at the word "Global Spirit"-- what does that mean?

"Collective commonality"-- what--we have-- all of us, we have one thing in common.

We were born with love by love for love.

We were infected with fear.

Nobody is born with fear.

Love and light.

Those are the two twins that are helping humanity get rid of flags and borders and religion and politics.

Those are... the most primitive, prehistoric concepts in this planet that prevents humans from really embracing the--una familia de luz, a family of light.

Love and light.

Beautiful.

With that upbeat note, let's turn now to our first film segment, which was recorded at the 2011 Montreux Jazz Festival, a live performance of Santana's dazzling song "Corazon Espinado."

Singer: Corazon!

Percussionist: ♪ Como duele, me duele mama ♪ ♪ Ay yay yay, corazon espinado ♪ ♪ Como duele, me duele mama ♪ ♪ Ay yay yay, como me duele el amor ♪ ♪ Ay yay yay, corazon espinado ♪ ♪ Ay yay yay, como me duele el amor ♪ Cousineau: This electrifying song "Corazon Espinado," which helps me write in the dark night of the soul, by the way, so thank you very much, can be loosely translated from the Spanish as "the wounded heart, the broken heart."

Where does the heart fit into your body of work?

Uh, it fits first, middle, and last.

Uh, what I have learned with clarity is that your soul--I mean, your spirit, your soul, and your heart don't get broken.

They're immutable.

What breaks is your ego perception of, uh... me, myself, and I, not us, which is what love really, really is.

You know, love is such a collective ocean like the Pacific, um, so, yeah, when you play it with heart, it means you give it all, you know?

Here's the two words that really, really scare the ego-- perfect perfection.

That scares the ego like crazy because the only-- the ego only sees flaws and will always deny.

"Well, what do you mean?

There is no perfect perfection."

You say, "There is nothing but perfect perfection.

What are you talking about?"

I mean, look at this flame.

Look at the light under--you know?

So, you know, it's-- it's important to teach in schools a different kind of curriculum than ABC, history, and biology.

Teach the frequency of...symmetry and frequency of...light and love from the heart.

Diane: Teach joy and love, for that is what you are.

That's who you are.

Yeah.

I mean, if we'd teach that in schools, there would--there would be less meltdowns of--of people suiciding and hurting other people, you know?

So, Gerry and Diane, as healers who've worked with many broken hearts, how do we connect this transcendent promise of love, that love is the greatest force known to us, with the fact it can also hurt so bad?

Well, it depends what kind of love you're talking about.

If you're talking about somebody who has-- who's very needy and wants to get something, then there's a different kind of interaction, but if you're talking about like a kid that we saw-- he was 13 years of age, he's dying, and, uh, I was holding his hand.

I thought he could be in a coma or very deeply asleep, and all of a sudden, he woke up, and I said, "You know, I have a tape recorder here, "and you're the first kid that we've had that's dying.

"What advice would you have for other kids or even adults?"

Without a blink, he said, "Tell them as long as they're breathing, "their purpose in life is to give love to other people, no matter what."

It's about sharing our love, not trying to get love but sharing our love, and k-know that--that our heart is always full of love, and when you really know that, love can't hurt you because you're all the time giving it away.

Cousineau: Cindy, in your experience, also, as one of the world's preeminent drummers, a wonderful musician, there can be healing, as we know, in the arts, in music.

Do we have to go into it intending to heal, or is there something unknown that's going to happen?

If the heart of the musician is in the right place and the audience is in the right place, some healing may take place?

Oh, it's going to happen.

Oh, that's gonna happen.

It's--it's, I think, more powerful when you go into it with that intention, but it's--it's definitely going to happen, I think, because, um, you know, you--you have people who claim to be atheists, and they don't intend to, uh, believe in God or anything like that, but when they love someone from their heart and it's true, they are doing exactly that, you know, so it's--that's definitely gonna happen, you know?

Does it change over time?

Carlos, in your experience, your experience of love as a teenager, a 20-year-old man, has it changed as you've grown older, different relationships, a deeper devotion to your music?

Does love grow?

Yes.

Um...the most valuable that thing I learned since I was young to where I am today is appreciation and valuing.

You know, I learned to value my next breath, where before you-- you was like-- you know, you're in-- you're in such a hurry to-- you don't even remember what you eat because you eat it so fast, and now I learned to, like, really, really savor and enjoy the note, you know, and the hug, the look, the-- and so what I learn more more as I grow older is to learn to value... uh... gratitude.

Gratitude dismisses guilt, remorse, self-doubt, but so much has to do with the quality of selection of your thoughts.

Bad--we--we--we say in music or in sports, "If you're thinking, you're stinking," you know, so don't think when you're executing something from your-- let it flow, you know, and trust.

That's wha--trust is thrust.

Let it flow, you know?

So what I'm learning a lot right now is to value more than ever gratitude.

Does this come out of a conviction of something you wrote in your marvelous memoirs that there is a divine rationale at the heart of it all?

It's--it's a difference between your souls and divine certainty and--and conviction than impulse and arrogance, you know?

We don't know "To be, or not to be."

That works for Shakespeare.

It don't work for us.

For us, it works-- it just is.

"Hit it!"

[All laughing] You know?

Right?

With joy.

Hit it with joy.

Mm-hmm.

Gerry: Yes.

Ahh!

Any response, Cindy?

Oh, that's it because if you don't approach everything you do with that intensity, with that intention, um, and with that spark, then you're not approaching it with-- in my, uh, perspective and, I think, in our perspective, you're not approaching it with, uh, the divinity with which you were made of, you know, and when you do that, that's when you really not only raise your own level of whatever the activity is, but you raise your consciousness, you help raise other people's consciousness, and so we get back to knowing and understanding, um, exactly what we are, where we're from, and who we are.

So if you don't love the work, it won't work?

Energy works, you know.

Electricity is.

If you stick your finger in a socket, you're gonna feel the electricity because electricity just is, but it depends on what you do with that electricity.

You can use that electricity to light this room or to, um, populate areas that have no electricity so that people's homes are warm.

So it depends on the way that you use it.

So the electricity is there.

You know, the energy is there, the love is there.

It's our direction of how we want to, um, uh, uh, not use that energy but how we want to direct that energy.

Carlos: And so, you know, where we are is to inviting as many people as possible who are--with willingness to really, really listen.

Claim back, accept, and own your own divinity.

It's not just for Jesus or Allah or Krishna and everybody else is chopped liver, and it ain't like that.

We are all part of something... beyond words.

I think to arrive at that point, the journey is the journey of forgiveness of all the things we were told about ourselves and all the people that told us those things the best that they knew and the journey of forgiveness of all the--the illusions about what we are not, and, uh, forgiveness sort of takes away the layers of really-- which is projected fear.

It has all different forms to it, but it's blame, shame, guilt, all those things.

In order to come back to this place of the innocence where you can really love fully and totally, and some people say, "Oh, but you can't.

You've done such horrible things in your life."

No.

I am who I am now, and I am in that beauty of recognizing who I am and remembering who I am.

Gerry: And how--how relieving it is for people who want to be awakened to recognize that "I'm not my past," to be able to say every day "I'm not my past, and I'm not gonna go from there anymore."

Cousineau: Have you made this part of the core of teaching at your Attitudinal Healing Centers, which are in 54 countries now?

Diane: We've worked in over 60 countries, and no matter where we go, it's always the same.

It is so universal.

We are so alike, it doesn't matter how different our costumes or the shapes of our eyes or the color of our skin or--or how even more educated.

At a core essence, we are the same, and people all want to experience love, and they want to get rid of fear.

They just don't know how to do it.

Cousineau: Well, now that we've had this wonderful preface to it, let's turn now to a video sequence that will allow the listener to actually see what you do.

Diane: The work of Attitudinal Healing began in 1975 when Gerry--I mean, in a deeply personal way-- went through a spiritual transformation, moving from being a militant atheist to someone who had an experience that he really knew then there was something larger and greater than himself.

Gerry: And it's really about letting go.

All this stuff around ego is really about letting go, letting go of our fear of death, letting go of trying to control people.

Diane: The fear of separation is really the greatest fear in the world.

It's not the fear of death.

Attitudinal Healing deals directly with the fear of separation in our lives and helps us overcome that.

Attitudinal Healing originally evolved working with children with life-threatening illnesses, children facing death, children who were dying and children who died, so the work has been adapted on, uh, 6 continents now and throughout North America, uh, Mexico, I mean, in 29 cities.

There are 6 major centers in Mexico.

In Guadalajara, the children's group are children whose parents, either one or both of them, have been murdered and many in front of them.

So they--that center is very adept at working with violence, with people that have been kidnapped, people who've had all sorts of experiences, and in Islamabad, Pakistan, the Nishan Foundation is a 10-year center.

They work with individuals who are addicted over the course of a year.

They have adapted into their Muslim faith.

The philosophy has always been that we give everything away free and that we encourage people and support people in creating this in their own communities.

Nature is really, really important to us, and obviously, we live floating on the water.

It helps remind me that we are all part of what is.

Gerry, voice-over: If I look at where Diane and I are today, we laugh a lot more.

We don't take ourselves so seriously.

We don't let little things bother us so much.

We spend more time in silence and the sweetness of silence.

Diane, voice-over: When you change your mind, you literally do change your life.

You can choose peace over conflict, and you can choose love over fear.

Gerry, voice-over: We want to get rid of the blocks to a love that is eternal, a love that's beyond this world.

What we're doing is saying that "I want to surrender to this love," and that's the only truth there is.

Diane, it's amazing to see the work adopted in so many different cultures.

Ideas like this, healing centers like this tend to be resisted in many corners of the world, but you seem to be welcomed with open arms.

What is about the way that you are teaching that allows you to go just about anywhere?

Because we're not trying to change people.

That's it.

Ha.

Bingo.

We're not invested in changing anyone.

We're--we're--we're door openers, but we don't push or pull people through doors.

We don't give advice in our groups.

That's one of the principles, not to give-- we're there just to love each other.

And another thing, at least in American culture, we're not very good listeners, and we do workshops on listening with love, unconditional love.

Cousineau: Listening with love.

So often in marriages that have gone sour, much in the--they've tuned off to everyone.

Do you have a few driving principles that will allow us to follow you?

Some of the core principles-- the first of course is that love is the essence of our being, and I always figure if you got the first one you wouldn't need the other 11, but a couple of others that I think that are very powerful-- we see--we defined health as inner peace and healing as the letting go of fear.

Gerry, there's a great expression in the Talmud-- "He who has been bitten by a snake forever is fearful of rope."

[All laughing] He doesn't like a snake.

If you've been hurt, right, you can carry that a lifetime, and then it's very hard to love.

it's hard to be generous and creative.

Where do we go there?

What are we talking about when we're talking about-- You can change your mind about what you're saying, "Hey.

Those two things are illusions.

I'm not gonna get involved in illusion."

When you start to believe that all form is part of our illusions-- you know, love is something that's not concrete.

It's--it's ethereal, it's formless, and when we believe that all these other things that cause us to be upset that our eye sees by--the--by our egos and we get upset about it or get fearful about it, and we get caught and think, "Well, I'm gonna predict"-- the belief system that the past is gonna predict the future, but I believe when you're really in spirit you're not dealing with past and future.

You're dealing with what's eternal.

The light that's within us is eternal.

The love that we're giving to other people is eternal, it's everlasting, so I think this gets us out of the trap of the ego that wants to keep us in bondage and keep us fearful and always find something new to be fearful, or--or the-- or the saying that says, "Let's tr--let's seek but not find what we're looking for," and we're not finding what we're looking for when we're not seeing the truth of love.

That's what frees us.

Forgiveness is what frees us from our illusions.

Cindy, you've written beautifully that "I believe music is so sacred "that once you're playing music "you're doing the work of prayer, "whether you're conscious of it or not because you have a focused intent."

So music is important.

I get that from--from this beautiful passage, but what's sacred about music?

I think the energy that it opens up, the divine energy.

I remember going on tour and--and writing certain things on--on drums, on different drums, and so when I played those drums, those energies are what I was trying to project to everyone, you know, but the core is the way that we can communicate to someone's soul, and it doesn't matter what language they speak or, you know, what color they are or what they like to have for breakfast.

None of that matters.

It's--the--the direct, um, and intense kind of laser-beam love that, you know, you inject into somebody's core.

[Cindy playing drum solo] [Cheering] [Bass playing along] [Cheering and applause] Cindy, I was playfully using the word "fearless" to introduce you in that clip, but I really do want to pursue that for a moment because, as a fellow artist, that's a big component of doing something original and creative.

How do you deal with fear as you're entering into a performance, going into a--a studio?

I'm not thinking fear, you know, and--and Carlos, he's the same way, if I can speak for him, as well, and I'm sure by the way that you interview you are the same, too.

I--I we're not thinking fear.

That's not even on the-- you know, you can say, "Well, this thing is the last thing on my list."

That's not on the list.

You know, we're thinking about projecting.

We're thinking about heartfelt notes.

You know, we're-- we're thinking about making people feel something that makes them feel good inside, so hopefully if that person had any kind of negativity or sadness, then we can help maybe change that energy.

So to me, fear is not, um-- that's not what I go into playing thinking about.

How do you deal with it, say, if other band members, other people do bring fear into our circles?

How do we handle that?

Carlos: You remind them to keep the cold to themselves.

Fear is like a-- like a virus, like a cold.

"Keep your doubt and your fear "to yourself, man.

"Get off the stage and come back "when you get it together, you know, "and if you're not feeling it "or if you're feeling this and that and-- "don't infect my band or myself, you know?

Cover your mouth when you cough, you know?"

Right?

I mean, "Just get off the stage and come back when you feel joy instead of fear," because you--you can't be joy and fear the same time.

You have one or the other, you know?

Part of the problem or part of the solution.

You know, you can't be in the middle.

That's not--doesn't work, you know?

Cindy: I think if people get--when anybody might ever get into that fearful mode, one--one good thing, I think, is to not think about little me.

Think about something bigger than ourselves, think about something bigger than us because that takes you out of that whole illusionary thing.

You know, so when we think about something bigger than us, then we can step up.

Diane: That's exactly what happens in our work, and you were asking, like, how does it affect us?

We're more in public speaking, et cetera, things like that, and people put on events, and--and every once in a while, someone will go, "Oh, my God.

I'm afraid.

This isn't this, or this isn't that."

We go, "You know what?"

As my mother always said, "It doesn't really matter.

"What really matters is that-- "how much love are you experiencing inside you, and how can you give that love away?"

And therefore when we have that energy, people around us who are putting on the events or building centers or whatever it is, they pick up that same kind of energy.

So it's your intentionality.

Cousineau: Carlos, you've written that Diane and Gerry help you stay on the path.

How important is it to have the humility to let a mentor in, to let little pieces of advice or support in?

It's--uh, it's imperative, you know, to recognize that, um, at a chosen place in time you will be sent sentient beings that will help you be lighter and brighter.

The spiritual traction.

Not slipping and sliding, shucking and jiving and making excuses, you know, but traction, it's when people say, "Hallelujah."

When you say, "Hallelujah," with so much joy, you are maintaining a velocity of spirit.

Gerry: And on the friendship-- you now, friendship is where you're--you're free to have other people see you at your worst and know that they'll still love you.

That's calling and trusting love.

To--to know that you can be transparent with them and you're not gonna be attacked, to know that you're on a joint pathway to be more consistent in experiencing that love that we are and that light that we are.

So both Diane and I are so grateful-- and I know you guys feel the same way, that to have a friendship where it's safe and there's no way you're gonna get hurt.

Carlos: We are in a place where--at least for me-- I--I feel--since I met Diane and Gerry, I feel a lot more, uh, tangible velocity in my spirit, you know, with, uh, being more consistent with not waking up feeling horrible.

You know, uh, everyone has an avalanche every day of-- which is what took Robin Williams out or Michael Jackson or Whitney Houston or Marvin Gaye or Jimi Hendrix.

You know, everyone at one time in your life-- we call it the darkest night of your soul avalanche, and you go phewwww!

And--and--and it hurts.

You know, it hurts because you bought into believing that you can never be fixed.

You know?

With Gerry and Diane, I learned that I have never been broken.

In my youth when I was an alcoholic, I had alcoholics as my friends, and they--we like having people who are on a spiritual journey, have them go with us.

Carlos: It's important to validate yourself.

You know, instead of like James Brown, step back and kiss myself, you know, I stand back, and I saw... that I'm not what the world told me I was.

I'm not what my mom said I was or the school or anyone like that.

All of a sudden, I realized I am a beam of light that comes from the mind of God, and...

I can't help others claim back their own divinity because most people have bought into the illusion that we're not worthy of God grace and that we're wretched sinners and on and and on and on, you know?

One of the main things that I learned from Gerry and Diane is that I crystallize m-my goals up ahead.

Someday, I want to be able to have a church that is called Church of the Holy Choice because this is the planet of free will, you know?

That's one of the most beautiful gifts the Creator gave everyone.

You're--you're free to doubt, or you're free to embrace absoluteness, you know?

So this church that I--that I-- I now God is laughing right not like crazy, but in this church, I want to be able to remind people of their divine choice, you know.

En...enjoy it, you know?

I'm so deeply grateful to both of them because they--they have called me every day since I met them, and we have, uh, collectively--I know-- touched millions of people in different other forms.

Beautiful, beautiful.

Cindy, I'd love your reflection on something that Gerry told Carlos about your relationship, which Carlos had the courage to include in the book.

I think it's a passage that will affect so many people, the raw insight, the beauty of this in which he says, "Carlos, Cindy is "a creation of your own spirit.

You created her, and she created you."

He even suggested that she's here to help you clean up your own "inner closet."

Ha ha ha!

And then the topper, you say that you and Cindy aspire together and you share the same desire for divinity.

This goes way beyond ordinary pop culture, doesn't it, beyond the persona of fame.

What did you feel when you first read that or heard that?

I think that it-- not only is it an incredible thing to say, but I think that's what we're here to do for each other.

We're here to pull each other up, you know, um, and if--if--if we're not-- if we're not doing that, if we're being the--the frogs in the barrel or the crabs in the barrel pulling each other down, then I think we're going in the wrong direction, you know.

Um, so if that is true, then, um, it would be, uh, the reverse, you know?

He'd be helping me do the same thing, and sometimes, sometimes we need, um, a loving person who's close to us to pull our coats to something, you know?

Sometimes, we need that.

"Oh!

Really?

OK.

I didn't see that."

What about surrender?

A great philosopher once said, "Life has to be lived forwards, but you have to understand it backwards."

In other words, once in a while, you have to look over your shoulder and say, "Is there something that I could heal right now?"

I think surrender is part of that.

What is it, early seventies you had an album with John McLaughlin right, "Love Devotion and Surrender"?

Mm-hmm.

It was the path.

That was the name of the path, uh, with Scri Chimnoy, you know, and, uh, when you surrender to the ocean, you become the ocean.

You don't get drowned by it.

Uh, we have a lot of misinterpretations in this planet that humility is humiliation.

Uh-uh.

Far from it.

You know, uh, so surrender I found, um, to be a really, really mighty word, you know?

"Let thy will be done in thy own way."

I mean, what could be more divine surrender than that?

When you made a move to change your music, to make it more sophisticated, to make it more spiritual, what had you experienced that gave you the courage to go ahead?

It was that thirst, you know, that thirst for righteousness.

Um, I--I needed to... follow... this...voice that kept saying, uh..."How do you feel?"

And I said, "Really miserable."

He says, "But you're number one on the charts, "and--and--and you're selling more records "than the Beatles right now.

"Why are you miserable?

"You gave your mom a house like you promised, "and you gave her everything you wanted.

Why are you so miserable?"

And, uh, I said, "I--I need something more "than what the world is giving me.

"Uh, the more adulation, the more success, the more this, the more like I feel like I'm being suffocated," and so I started diving into books by Paramahansa Yogananda, "The Urantia Book," and listening constantly to John Coltrane, and, uh, I was thirsty for expansion, and I think that I just needed to change the music because I needed to change me.

It got to be really challenging because everybody that loved me and knew me, they said, "You're committing career suicide doing that"... and, uh, I said, "That sounds interesting."

You know?

Success gets boring really quick, and platinum albums collect dust even faster, you know, but what I-- what I felt that was new was learning this language of Coltrane and Wayne Shorter and Miles Davis, the real Einsteins and Beethovens and Leonardo da Vincis of our time.

It's not an easy thing, and it takes courage because this is an ocean, and there's a lake, and I was--I was swimming in a--in a swimming pool, so I went from a swimming pool to a big lake.

I'm still in the lake.

I think Cindy's gonna help me dive into the ocean once and for all.

Cindy, the Irish and the Scots have this marvelous metaphor of the back of beyond, not just the beyond but the back of beyond, and you can usually enter it at dawn and at dusk, and that's where the transformations happen.

A poet who can willingly put himself or herself into this place of the back of beyond comes back changed.

What happens to you when you are onstage and you go--you choose to go to a new place you've never been before?

Oh, it's exhilarating.

I mean-- firstly, that's interesting because, uh, we-- in my family, we are part Scottish and part Irish, um, as well as, uh, African-American and American Indian and African, so that's very interesting that you--and Spanish, too.

That's interesting that you said that, but, uh, you know, it's-- it's really exhilarating, you know, when you can, um, navigate, um, and begin to understand what Wayne Shorter was talking about when he said that, um, the language of music-- in essence-- it's not a quote, but in essence, he was saying the language of music is beyond, uh, technique, so when you can start to understand that, then you can start to raise your level in terms of being able to say whatever you want to say whenever you want to say it, and, um, that's the virtuosic level that I'm looking to get to.

I'm not at that level, but my greatest heroes are and were at that level, and, um, to me, that's one of the most exhilarating things that I've ever done.

If I--if I had to just do that in my basement only, I'd probably still be happy.

You know, I don't want to do it in my basement only because I like touching people, you know, and I want to affect, you know?

I think that's part of why we're--we're here, as we were talking about before, um, but it's just so exciting, you know?

How do you want to affect people?

I tell you what, um, when I was, um, I think about 11, we moved from Ohio, where--where my family's from, and we went to Connecticut, and my--I had two best friends, one girl, uh, by the name of Kim and one boy, um--this is when I first moved there.

His name was Doug Campany, and Doug was, uh, deaf, um, but he used to-- I think he loved being friends with me so much because I played drums, so he used to come down in my basement, and I would play, and he would dance because now he could finally feel the music, so for me, I was so happy watching him dance.

He would just get in front of my drums, and, you know, you could hear him making sounds as though he was singing, although he was mute, too, so he couldn't, you know, speak, but, you know, the effect on him was so incredible.

I've never forgotten that, and I've never forgotten him.

I don't know whatever became of him because that's when I was 11, 12, 13 when we were friends, um, but that experience was just incredible.

So if I can do that just to--to--to one person, I'm really pretty happy, and if I can do that to--to many, I'm--I'm overjoyed.

My heart is--is just glowing.

That might be the origin story of "Good Vibrations."

I think so.

"Good Vibrations."

Yes.

It's all vibration, right?

In order to get to the place where they're poetically describing so beautifully, what lies beyond love and fear?

The mystery of life.

It only gets better beyond our imagination, beyond our intellect, beyond our understanding.

It's trusting to go into the unknown.

Carlos is your image of the universal tone, is that what's lying beyond the ordinary, and where did you find it?

Is it something you experienced, is it something you dreamt about?

It's, um... it's a frequency I discovered at a very early age with, um-- with my father's voice and his violin, and at that time, I was still living in Autlán, Jalisco, which was probably, like... '54, '53, but I could see back and forth the eyes of these people in this party.

It was in the afternoon, but I could see women, men, and children just looking at my dad like he was ice cream.

They just adored him, and when he started singing them songs, it was like, "Oh, Don José this, and Don José that," and I was like, and I said, "Man, I want me some of that.

That's what I want and nothing else," but when I came to San-- uh, Tijuana, it became another sound within--within that principle, and it was the sound of Mahalia Jackson, you know, it was the sound of many, many things that I grew up listening to, and then I came to San Francisco because of the consciousness revolution and--and the Grateful Dead and all--you know.

It's the same sound differently.

Uh, it's the sound of... a child yearning and crying to be hugged, so the universal tone is--is a collective sound of humans...wanting that God hug because without God you get lonely and you get bored and you get confused.

When God hugs you, this is why they say, "Hallelujah."

The music inside the music.

[Exhales] We can take a breath and then slowly segue to our fourth film clip, a truly extraordinary, scintillating Carlos Santana guitar solo called "Europa."

[Carlos playing "Europa"] What a majestic guitar piece.

When you reach a note that penetrates the ego and goes right to the heart, at that moment, are we hitting something divine.

Bingo!

Yes.

That's the whole purpose of music is to reconnect children of God back to their light and not to the illusion, movie of the day that we make, you know, that we're unworthy or we're separate or we're distanced.

Even the most cynical, cemented people get chills.

You know, when--when music hits them in a certain place, they--they go, "Ahh."

I'm--I'm very grateful that it's an instrument that it utilizes us.

We--we don't-- you know, we think we're utilizing it, but it's utilizing us, right?

Uh, Cindy, you've said that music is sacred in that "once you're playing music, "you are actually praying, whether conscious or not."

Can we talk a little more about th-this sacred dimension?

That's a way of communication.

uh, it's a way of prayer to me.

That's how high the level of communication is.

When you get into a zone, you are tapped in, you know, to a realm that is of higher consciousness than what you might normally be at, depending on who you are and what your level of consciousness is, but you are tapped into a zone that gets to such a high level, and you're able to share that with other people and help people to--to to feel that, as well.

Carlos: Same thing the American Indians say, the--the Native ones, you know, the first people of the land.

They say, "Take the high road"... "Look at the aerial view and see the big picture."

You know, and this-- this is--this is where we are right now.

We're reaching a point in this planet of immediate manifestation, Diane: Mm-hmm.

you know, and it's a grand place to be because now, you know, you think of something before, it takes 3-4, 7 years to manifest.

Now it's really, really quick, quicker than quick, you know?

Gerry and Diane, do you see any corollary here?

In your work, do you feel like you are actually spurring a new kind of human conversation?

I don't think we're spurring a new conversation.

I think that each human being has a way of saying what is already known ancient--in ancient times, and we may say it in a contemporary way or in an international way that people can understand it, a simplified way, and we, uh-- we always go for the simplified form of, you know, what's true, and what's true is that that doesn't change.

What doesn't change?

The only thing that doesn't change is this essence, this universal tone, this love that created us.

The rest of it is all gonna change.

This is all gonna disappear, you're gonna disappear, I'm gonna disappear, all this is gonna change, and what is is-- is that which is lasting, and to us, that which is lasting is love.

Carlos: Let all voices be lifted to... Kadosh, kadosh, kadosh Adonoi Tesva'ot.

Holy, holy, holy is the lord of hosts.

Do you see something sacred happening with this?

Gerry: Yes.

The illusion that we're separate.

The reality is we're not separate.

That's where forgiveness-- Let's keep going with that.

And that's where f--that's where forgiveness comes in, when we can let go of the past and let go of the feelings of what bodies do and what they don't do and choose to see beyond the body, choose to see the light that is that we all inherit in ourselves.

It's--it's one light, and there's no separation.

When Jesus says, "I am the light, the truth, and the way," he meant aspiration, the flame of aspiration.

I keep looking at this flame, and it's a flame that shoots up to the heavens and tells the angels and God "I'm ready.

"Come and use me and manifest, you know, supremeness through me," you know.

I love that, you know.

The Beatles "All You Need is Love," "Imagine" John Lennon, "What's Going On?"

Marvin Gaye, you know, they're all saying the same word.

"Invite one and all to rekindle your aspiration."

Otherwise, you're going to have a really-- almost like a wasted incarnation, so I'm just really, really grateful for this particular moment in time with Diane and Gerry, Gerry and Diane and Cindy, you know, and yourself.

This is a golden opportunity to share with those who can hang, like they say-- jazz musicians, "Can you hang?

Otherwise, get off the stage," you know?

Ha ha ha!

Heh heh!

But if you can hang, you know, you--you will be richly rewarded because, you know, is there anything more beautiful in this planet... than perfect perfection?

Lovely grace note.

Thank you for opening up your heart for a topic like this.

Thank you, Cindy, thank you, Carlos, thank you, Diane, and thank you, Gerry.

Cindy: Thank you.

Diane: Thank you.

Carlos: Thank you.

I am Carlos Santana, and I hope you connected and return to this series "Global Spirit," the first internal travel series.