>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

UKRAINE UNDER CONSTANT BOMBARDMENT AS PUTIN TRIES TO BREAK THE PEOPLE'S SPIRIT.

BUT ARE HIS TROOPS IN TROUBLE ON THE FRONT LINES?

I'M JOINED BY THE FORMER UKRAINIAN PRIME MINISTER.

THEN, ANOTHER BLOW FOR AFGHANISTAN'S WOMEN AFTER THE INTERNET WAS SHUT DOWN.

A SPECIAL REPORT ON THE EXILED GIRLS FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM THROUGH FOOTBALL.

>> AND THE ACTOR AND THE ACTIVIST, LEGENDARY HOLLYWOOD STAR JANE FONDA JOINS ME ALONG WITH MELA CHIPONDA ON THEIR NEW CLIMATE FUND AND FONDA'S FOND MEMORIES OF ROBERT REDFORD.

>> THE NUCLEAR THREAT.

THE COCHAIRS OF A NEW TASK FORCE MAKE ANOTHER CASE FOR STOPPING THE SPREAD OF THESE MOST DEADLY WEAPONS.

AND FINALLY, A HERO FOR OUR PLANET AND THE NATURAL WORLD.

A TRIBUTE TO THE GREAT JANE GOODALL.

> >> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUSS.

>> AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

CIVILIAN CASUALTIES HAVE REACHED A THREE YEAR HIGH IN UKRAINE.

LAST WEEK, RUSSIA BOMBED THE COUNTRY CONTINUOUSLY FOR OVER 12 HOURS.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY CALLED IT VILE.

VLADIMIR PUTIN IS TRYING TO BREAK THE NATION'S SPIRIT.

LIKELY BECAUSE HE IS NOT ACTUALLY WINNING ON THE FRONT LINES.

HIS SOLDIERS ADVANCES THERE HAVE SLOWED BY ALMOST HALF IN SEPTEMBER.

TODAY, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS MEETING WITH EUROPEAN LEADERS AS THEY PLEDGE TO BOOST SUPPORT FIR HUSBAND COUNTRY'S.

WE HAVE ARSENIY YATSENYUK.

IS THERE A NOTICEABLE SLOWDOWN IN WHAT RUSSIA IS ACHIEVING OP THE FRONT LINES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

RUSSIA IS GAINING INCREMENTAL GAINS BUT THE PACE HAS INCREASED SEVERELY.

LET ME REMIND YOU WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING.

THIS WAR HAS BEEN GOING ON NOT FOR THREE-AND-A-HALF YEARS.

IT'S BEEN 11 YEARS SINCE DESIGNATED WAR CRIMINAL PUTIN WAGED WAR AGAINST UKRAINE.

>> WHEN HE CAPTURED CRIMEA.

>> THEN HE SENT HIS TROOPS TO THE EASTERN UKRAINE.

THEN, HE SAID TO THE ENTIRE WORLD IT IS NOT HIS TROOPS WITHOUT INSIGNIA SO HE LIED AS ALWAYS.

EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN THE LAST 11 YEARS IS JUST ATON ASTONISHING.

RUSSIA DIDN'T MANAGE TO TAKE OVER UKRAINE.

RUSSIA WITH THE NUKES, 104 MILLION POPULATION DIDN'T MANAGE TO TAKE OVER UKRAINE OF 40 MILLION PEOPLE.

SO, RUSSIAN FORCES HAVE LOST AROUND ONE MILLION IN DEBT AND INJURED.

UKRAINIANS.

>> THAT IS JUST IN THE LAST THREE YEARS OF THE FULL SCALE INVASION.

SINCE 22.

>> UKRAINIANS SEVERELY DEGRADED RUSSIAN LAND FORCES BY HALF.

NATO HAS EXPANDED.

AND WE ARE AS UKRAINIANS A SHOW OF RESILIENT.

MORE THAN 74% OF UKRAINIANS STILL BELIEVE IN THE MILITARY VICTORY OF UKRAINE OVER RUSSIA AND WE ARE SITTING ON A NEVER ENDING SHELLINGS.

UNDER THE BARRAGE OF RUSSIAN MISSILES SO THE THING IS WHETHER WE CAN WIN, YES, WE CAN CHRISTIANE, BUT IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE POLITICAL WHEEL OF OUR ALLIES.

WE HAVE GUTS, WE HAVE STRENGTH.

THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

AND WE HAVE SHOWN IT TO THE ENTIRE WORLD.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR ACTION.

>> AT THE U.N., THIS PAST WEEK, IN NEW YORK, THERE SEEMED TO BE A SHIFT CERTAINLY FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO IF YOU REMEMBER HOSTED PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND TOLD HIM HE HAD NO CARDS TO PLAY AND NEEDED TO SUE FOR PEACE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

NOW, FAST FORWARD.

HE IS SAYING WITH THE RIGHT HELP, EWE CAN WIN.

YOU CAN EVEN WIN BACK CRIMEA AND THE OTHER TERRITORIES AND HE SEEM TO BE TALKING ABOUT BOOSTING UKRAINE'S MILITARY POTENTIAL AS WELL.

DO YOU SEE THAT AS AN ACTUAL SHIFT?

AND THOUSAND DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR IT?

IS IT REAL?

>> I WELCOME THIS VERBAL U-TURN OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE HAS REALIZED THAT PUTIN TRIED TO PLAY HIM.

HE WANTED TO HUMILIATE PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE EXPECTED TO GET SOME CONCESSIONS OUT OF PUTIN.

IN THE END, HE GOT THE NEXT WAVE OF NEVER ENDING SHELLING OF UKRAINE.

HE GOT A VERY STRONG STANCE AGAINST THE WESTERN WORLD.

DRONES INTO NATO AIR SPACE.

A NEW WAVE OF CYBER ATTACKS AGAINST NATO ALLIES AND MY GUT FEELING IS THAT HE REALIZES SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THAT.

SO THIS VERBAL U-TURN IS STRONGLY WELCOMED.

WORDS MATTER ONLY IN ONE CASE.

IF THEY ARE SUPPORTED BY ACTIONS.

>> RIGHT.

SO THERE ARE REPORTS THEY PLAN TO RESTART OR BOOST INTELLIGENCE SHARING WITH KYIV TO HIT WAR REFINERIES IN RUSSIA.

THEY HAVE A RANGE OF UP TO 500 MILES.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE MILITARY POST CURE OF UKRAINE NOW?

IT IS HAVING A HUGE EFFECT ON RUSSIA'S ENERGY CAPACITY AND INSTALLATIONS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

DUE TO UKRAINIAN ATTACKS, RUSSIANS LOST AROUND 20% OF THEIR OIL REFINERY CAPACITIES SO THEY ARE FACING RIGHT NOW A DEFICIT OF GASOLINE AT THEIR STATIONS.

THESE KIND OF ACTIONS CAUSE SEVERE DAMAGE TO RUSSIA.

SO IF TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DECIDES TO MAKE A BOLD DECISION TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SECURITY SUPPLEMENTAL TO UKRAINE AND IF THE GERMAN CHANCELLOR IS TO DELIVER HIS PROMISE, HE HAS MADE THIS PROMISE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL SAYING HE IS READY TO DELIVER MISSILES TO UKRAINE.

THIS WOULD BE A BECAME CHANGER.

>> AND EUROPE SHOULD IN FACT START TAKING THOSE FROZEN ASSETS OF RUSSIAS AND ACTUALLY HELP UKRAINE DEFEND ITSELF WITH THEM.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOOK.

LET ME REMIND YOU THE EUROPEAN UNION, THE U.K.

AND THE UNITED STATES SEIZED AROUND $30 BILLION OF RUSSIAN ASSETS.

>> 30 OR 300?

>> $300 BILLION.

SORRY.

SO, THE THING IS THAT DIFFERENT DELIBERATIONS OVER THE LEGALITY.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, RUSSIA HAS VIOLATED INTERNATIONAL LAW AND COMMITTED AN ACT OF AGGRESSION.

RUSSIA IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO MAKE RUSSIA ACCOUNTABLE.

>> IT IS INTERESTING, YOU ALL KNOW THE FAMOUS PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL.

HE HAS WRITTEN A LOT ABOUT IT THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

RUSSIAN STRATEGY SEEKS TO OUT FLANK UKRAINIAN POSITION BY ATTACKING THE WILL OF THE AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS.

I WONDER IF A, YOU THINK THAT IS NOW STIFFENING ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE JUST TALKED ABOUT AROUND ALSO WHAT MERTZ IS SAYING ABOUT THE FUNDS IS BASICALLY SHOWING THEY DON'T EXPECT UKRAINE TO JUST GIVE UP.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS A LEGITIMATE ANALYSIS?

>> WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER.

WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP.

>> DO YOU SEE A STIFFENING OF RESOLVE?

>> THERE IS A KIND OF STIFFENING OF RESOLVE.

PUTIN WATCHES AND FOLLOWS ONLY ACTIONS.

NOT STATEMENTS.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR.

STRONG BOLD ACTIONS.

IF WE GET THESE TALK SHOPS OR HOT AIR RELEASED FROM HIGH PROFILE POLITICIANS IT DOESN'T WORK.

SO STRONG ACTIONS ARE NEEDED.

THE FIRST ONE IS NEW SECURITY SUPPLEMENTAL FROM THE U. S. CONGRESS.

THE SECOND ONE.

SECONDARY SANCTIONS IMPOSED BY THE UNITED STATES AND THE EUROPEAN UNION.

THE THIRD ONE, FINANCIAL SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BUDGET GAP OF 150 BILLION IN THE FOURTH COMING THREE YEARS.

THE FOURTH ONE IS WE NEED URGENTLY TO CONFISCATE RUSSIAN ASSETS.

THIS IS HOW TO OFFSET ALL THESE LOSSES.

THE FIFTH ONE, IS CHINA AND INDIA.

SO, WE NEED TO PROSECUTE THE PRESSURE ON CHINA AND TO GET ALONG SOMEHOW WITH INDIA.

CHINA IS AN ACCOMPLICE.

THEY PROVIDE A LIFELINE TO RUSSIA AND NORTH KOREA.

NORTH KOREA DEPLOYS ITS TROOPS AGAINST UKRAINE.

SO, IT IS A NEW KIND OF AXIS OF EVIL UNDER THE UMBRELLA MADE IN CHINA.

>> INTERESTINGLY UNDER THESE SHIFTING SANDS, WE READ THAT I THINK THE RUSSIANS PUTIN IS HAVING TO CUT THE MILITARY EXPENDITURE ALSO.

THEY SEEM TO BE FEELING SOME FINANCIAL PAIN RIGHT NOW.

>> HERE IS THE THING.

I HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT READING.

IF YOU LOOK INTO THIS BUDGET, SO THE MILITARY EXPENDITURES, IT IS JUST 5% INCREASE.

IT IS NOTHING.

IT IS NOTHING.

SO IT MEANS HE HAS SHOWN THAT HE IS READY TO PROSECUTE THE WAR FURTHER.

HE HASN'T CHANGED HIS GOAL.

TO TAKE OVER ALL OF UKRAINE AND UNDERMINE THE EUROPEAN UNION AND NATO.

LOOK.

IT IS A DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.

BOTH OF THESE BUDGETARY EXPENDITURES CLEARLY SHOW THAT HE HASN'T CHANGED HIS MIND.

>> SO, MAXIMALIST DEMANDS STILL ON THE TABLE.

NATO NATIONS SAY IT WILL TAKE MAYBE FIVE YEARS FOR PUTIN JUST TO TAKE THE ENTIRE DONBASS AT THIS CURRENT RATE SO HE IS IN IT FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

IN THE MEANTIME, ZELENSKYY SEEMS TO GET MORE SUPPORT.

HE HAS TOLD REPORTERS THAT HE PLANS, HE IS READY TO STEP DOWN AFTER THE WAR ENDS.

WHAT DOES THAT SIGNAL TO YOU?

>> THE NATION HAS RALLIED AROUND THE FLAG.

HE IS THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT.

I WISH THE TIME WILL COME WHETHER HE WILL DECIDE TO RUN FOR THE SECOND TERM OR TO SKIP AND YOU KNOW WHY?

BECAUSE IT MEANS UKRAINE IS TO GET DURABLE CEASE FIRE OR FAIR AND JUST PEACE.

WE NEED TO WIN THE WAR AND SAVE THE COUNTRY.

AND DEMOCRACY WILL ALWAYS PREVAIL IN UKRAINE.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT AS A LAST QUESTION.

WE INTRODUCED YOU AS ONE OF THE MAIN FIGURES DURING THE MAIDAN ABOUT DEMOCRACY.

IT WAS ABOUT MOVING TOWARD THE WEST.

THE EU ACCESSION.

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL SURVIVE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

DEFINITELY.

WE WILL SURVIVE.

WE WILL JOIN THE EU.

WE WILL JOIN NATO.

AND WE WILL DEFEND EUROPE AND THE FREE WORLD.

JUST HELP US.

>> GOT IT.

PRIME MINISTER.

ONE MORE LAST VERY QUICK ONE.

WHO DO YOU TALK TO TO GET THESE POINTS ACROSS AND ARE THEY MAKING HEADWAY OR ARE PEOPLE GETTING TIRED?

>> I'M TALKING TO EVERYONE.

I AM RIGHT NOW ON AN ADVOCACY MISSION.

FRANCE, SWEDEN, U.K., WASHINGTON, BRUSSELS.

WE HAVE TO TALK TO POLITICIANS AND ORDINARY PEOPLE.

WE NEED TO GET EVERYONE ON BOARD IN ORDER TO WIN THIS FIGHT.

THIS IS THE WAR OF AUTOCRATS AND DICTATORS AGAINST THE DEMOCRACY.

THIS IS THE WAR AGAINST THE FREE WORLD.

WE WILL WIN THIS WAR.

>> ALL RIGHT.

PRIME MINISTER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> IN AFGHANISTAN, CELL PHONE AND INTERNET SERVICE HAS BEEN RESTORED DAYS AFTER IT WAS ABRUPTLY SHUT DOWN CAUSING NATIONWIDE CHAOS AN CUTTING OFF AN EDUCATION LIFELINE FOR TEENAGE GIRLS AND WOMEN WHO ARE BANNED FROM GOING TO SCHOOL.

AFGHAN WOMEN AND GIRLS CONTINUE TO PUT UP A BRAVE ACTIVE RESISTANCE WHEN EVER THEY CAN IN THE FACE OF BRUTAL OPPRESSION BY THE TALIBAN INCLUDEING IN THE WORLD OF SPORTS.

AS AMANDA DAVIS FOUND OUT WHEN SHE MET A GROUP OF EXILED PLAYERS HERE IN ENGLAND.

>> Reporter: 7:00 A.M.

ON A FRIDAY MORNING IN THE NORTHWEST OF ENGLAND.

A MILESTONE MOMENT AFTER A SLEEPLESS NIGHT.

AWAKE WITH NERVES.

>> YOU SHOULD FEEL SO PROUD.

THEY ARE ALL NAMED AS PART OF THE SQUAD FOR THE FIRST FIFA BACKED AFGHAN WOMEN'S REFUGEE TEAM.

SET TO BE REUNITED WITH FELLOW AFGHAN PLAYERS SCATTERED IN EXILE AROUND THE WORLD TO REPRESENT THEIR COUNTRY AT LAST.

>> JUST AN AMAZING MOMENT FOR ALL OF US.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SHARE WITH MY FAMILY.

THE THING IS HOW SAD IT IS I DON'T HAVE THEM BY MY SIDE CELEBRATING LIKE MY TEAMMATES WHO WILL SHARE WITH THEIR FAMILY.

>> Reporter: IN 2021, ALAHA WAS 17 AND EARNED HER FIRST CALL OUT FOR THE AFGHAN WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM AS A GOAL KEEPER.

SHE NEVER GOT TO PLAY.

FOR HER AND HER TEAMMATES, THEIR ROLE AS FOOTBALLERS AND WHAT THAT MEANT IN THE EYES OF THE TALIBAN MEANT THEY WERE FORCED TO FLEE THEIR HOMES AND COUNTRY.

HER FATHER WAS ILL SO HER PARENTS WERE UNABLE TO TRAVEL.

SHE AND HER BROTHER HAD TO LEAVE WITHOUT THEM.

>> I FEEL VERY HONORED BEING YOUR PASSENGER AFTER YOU JUST PASSED YOUR TEST!

>> THANKS.

>> AM I SAFE?

>> YEAH!

YOU GUYS SHOULD TRUST ME!

>> Reporter: FOR EVERYTHING THEY HAVE LOST, THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS THIS GROUP LIVE IN DEFIANCE OF THE RULES THE TALIBAN HAVE IMPOSED ON WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN.

LEARNING TO DRIVE, GAINING AN EDUCATION.

SECURING JOBS, AND PLAYING FOOTBALL.

THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO IS GO FROM PLAYING THEIR FOOTBALL HERE TO REPRESENTING THEIR COUNTRY WEARING THE SHIRT OF AFGHANISTAN ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

>> AFGHANISTAN'S TITLE SHOULD COME FROM THE AFGHANISTAN FOOTBALL FEDERATION WHICH WE DO NOT ACCEPT AS IT IS RUNNING BY TALIBAN AND WE DO NOT RECOGNIZE TALIBAN.

WE WANT FIFA TO RECOGNIZE INTERNATIONAL WOMEN AFGHANS.

WE ARE TIRED OF CALLING, GETTING CALLED REFUGEES.

WE HAVE BEEN CALLED REFUGEES FOUR YEARS NOW.

>> Reporter: BECAUSE THE TALIBAN BELIEVE WOMEN PLAYING SPORTS IS AGAINST SHARIA LAW AND HAVE REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE WOMEN'S TEAM, THEIR ABILITY TO PLAY INTERNATIONALLY HAS DEPENDED ON THE INTERVENTION OF WORLD FOOTBALL'S GOVERNING BODY FIFA.

IT HAS TAKEN UNTIL NOW FOR THEM TO CREATE THE AFGHAN WOMEN'S REFUGEE TEAM.

SET TO TAKE PART IN A FOUR-TEAM TOURNAMENT IN DUBAI IN OCTOBER.

NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT KALIDA, THE FIRST EVER CAPTAIN OF THE ORIGINAL AFGHAN WOMEN'S SIDE FOUNDED IN 2007.

>> WE HAVE BEEN SCREAMING OUT LOUD TO GET FIFA'S ATTENTION TO LISTEN TO OUR VOICES.

AND WE HAVE REALLY FACED SILENCE FOR FOUR YEARS.

>> FIFA DID NOT REPLY TO SOME OF OUR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NATIONAL TEAM.

BUT IT DID SAY IN A STATEMENT THAT FINANCING PERSONNEL WHAT IT CALLED A SIGNIFICANT LANDMARK STEP FORWARD IN GIVING AFGHAN PLAYER IT IS INTERNATIONAL PLATFORM AND RECOGNITION TO WHICH THEY ASPIRE.

>> AMANDA DAVIS SHINING AN IMPORTANT SPOTLIGHT.

>> FORMER U.S.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SAID THE ANTIDOTE TO DESPAIR IS ACTION, SO THE ANTIDOTE TO CLIMATE IS CLIMATE ACTION.

SHE IS ONE OF AMERICA'S BEST KNOWN ACTIVISTS.

SHE IS NOW UPPING HER CAUSE TO SAVE THE PLANET.

WE ARE OF COURSE TALKING ABOUT THE LEGENDARY JANE FONDA.

WE RECENTLY AT DOWN IN NEW YORK.

JOINED BY ACTIVIST MELA CHIPONWE.

THEY ARE WORKING ON THE JUSTICE FUND FOR WOMEN WHICH RAISES MONEY FOR WOMEN WHO OFTEN BEAR THE BRUNT OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

>> WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

GREAT TO TALK TO YOU ACTUALLY ABOUT THE CLIMATE BECAUSE WE ARE IN NEW YORK AND PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DELIVERED A BROADSIDE AGAINST CLIMATE.

CALLING IT I THINK GREEN ENERGY GIANT CON JOB, A BIG SCAM AND TELLING ALL COUNTRIES THAT THEY WILL FAIL WITH MITIGATION.

YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> WELL, WE JUST HAVE TO TALK TO HIM.

HE JUST NEEDS SOME EDUCATION.

HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND.

SO WE WILL TALK TO HIM.

>> WILL YOU?

>> I'LL TRY.

I'VE BEEN TRYING SINCE 2017 TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT.

HE JUST NEEDS SOME EDUCATION.

>> SINCE 2017, YOU SAY, WAS THAT THE PERIOD WHEN YOU WERE IN EVERY FRIDAY PROTEST GET ARRESTED?

>> NO.

THAT WAS TWO YEARS LATER.

THAT WAS 2019.

>> ARE YOU STILL DOING THAT?

>> NO.

HERE'S WHY.

AFTER YEARS, EVERYONE IS PART OF PROTESTING, LOBBYING AND GETTING ARRESTED AND SO FORTH.

AND WE DIDN'T HAVE STILL THE RIGHT LEGISLATION.

WE WEREN'T GETTING IT.

AND THE REASON IS SO MANY PEOPLE ELECTED TO OFFICE TAKE MONEY FROM THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY.

SO WE THOUGHT WELL IF YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PEOPLE, CHANGE THE PEOPLE.

AND WE ELECTED CLIMATE CHAMPIONING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

EVERYWHERE.

>> RED AND BLUE STATES.

>> DOWN BALLOT.

BECAUSE WE ARE BUILDING A FIREWALL.

WE ARE BUILDING A WALL TO PROTECT AND THESE DOWN BALLOT POSITIONS REALLY MATTER TO CLIMATE.

THEY HAVE HUGE DECISION MAKING POWERS THAT AFFECT CLIMATE.

AND POLLUTION.

AND YOUR COMMUNITY.

AND IT IS REALLY HARD RIGHT NOW TO GET THINGS DONE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

AND THAT WAS VERY SERENDIPITOUS THAT WE DID THAT.

THE FACT IS NOW WE ARE FACING TWO EXISTENTIAL CRISES.

CLIMATE AND DEMOCRACY.

AND WE CAN'T HAVE A STABLE CLIMATE UNLESS WE HAVE A STABLE DEMOCRACY AND YOU CAN'T HAVE A STABLE CLIMATE WITHOUT A STABLE DEMOCRACY.

THEY HAVE TO BE SOLVED TOGETHER.

>> SO LET ME ASK YOU, MELA, HOW DO YOU REACT TO THAT?

YOU HAVE THE SHINE COLAB.

WHAT IS YOUR INTERACTION WITH JANE ON THIS NEW EFFORT?

>> IT IS A COLLABORATION BECAUSE WE ARE WORKING TOGETHER WITH GOVERNMENTS, WITH WOMEN LED POWER ENTERPRISES AND OF COURSE, WITH PEOPLE LIKE JANE BECAUSE THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS NOT JUST ONE ISSUE.

IT IS CONNECTED TO GENDER, TO THE GENDER GAP.

TO ALL THE OTHER SECTORS BECAUSE THIS CRISIS IS NOT A SINGLE ISSUE THING THAT WE CAN SAY WE JUST ARE FIGHTING CLIMATE THIS IS WHY WE ARE WORKING ON THE INTERSECTION OF CLIMATE AND ENERGY AS WELL.

>> HOWDAHS YOUR GOVERNMENT DEAL WITH CLIMATE MITIGATION?

YOU SEE HERE THE FEDERAL LEVEL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HAS ROLLED BACK SIGNIFICANT CLIMATES AND PULLED OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS AGAIN.

WHAT IS YOUR COUNTRY DOING?

>> I WOULD SAY FOR MY COUNTRY AND I THINK FOR A LOT OF COUNTRIES IN AFRICA AS WELL WE HAVE 600 MILLION PEOPLE IN AFRICA LIVING WITHOUT ACCESS TO ENERGY AND ELECTRICITY AND IT BECOMES VERY DIFFICULT FOR US TO SAY LET'S CLOSE ALL THE COAL MINES BECAUSE WE ARE HAVING PEOPLE LIVING IN EXTREME ENERGY POVERTY.

THEN THE ARGUMENT COMES COMES TO SAY WE ARE NOT THE BIGGEST CONTRIBUTORS.

WE ARE ONLY 4% OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS BUT OUR ARGUMENT STILL IS FOSSIL FUEL DRIVEN ENERGY SYSTEMS ARE VERY HARMFUL IN TERMS OF THE HEALTH OF OUR ECO SYSTEMS AND EMISSIONS HAND IN TERMS OF THE HEALTH OF PEOPLE AND DEMOCRACY AS WELL.

OUR DEMOCRACIES AS WELL.

SO OUR GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT REALLY WORKING ON CLOSING DOWN THE COAL MINES.

WE WISH THEY SHOULD DO.

THEY ARE WORKING ON HOW DO WE MAKE SURE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO ENERGY SERVICES?

>> YOU KNOW, JANE, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND FRANKLY MANY AMERICAN ADMINISTRATIONS AND THE EU AS WELL HAS NOT PAID SUFFICIENT ATTENTION TO AFRICA AND THEY ARE ALWAYS, YOU NEVER GET THE IMPRESSION THEY ARE ACTUALLY DOING ENOUGH AND PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID CLIMATE SCIENCE IS FROM STUPID PEOPLE.

HE HAS CALLED AFRICA CERTAIN EXPLETIVES TO DESCRIBE CERTAIN NATIONS IN THE WORLD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK AFTERLY DOCTOR CAN TELL US GIVEN THE FACT THEY PRODUCE ONLY 4%.

AND THE ISLANDS PRODUCE ALMOST NO POLLUTION?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD LEARN AND HOW TO HARNESS AND WORK WITH CONTINENTS LIKE AFRICA WHICH YOU ARE DOING?

>> 15 YEARS AGO AT THE FORD FOUNDATION, WE CREATED THE FRONT LINE WOMEN'S FUND.

IT IS WOMEN THAT HARVEST THE FOOD, THAT PLANT THE SEEDS.

THAT FETCH THE WATER AND CHOP THE WOOD AND RAISE THE CHILDREN AND COOK THE FOOD.

THEY HOLD, THEY ARE THE GLUE THAT HOLD COMMUNITIES TOGETHER.

AND YOU HAVE TO EMPOWER THEM AND PUT RESOURCES INTO THEIR HANDS SO THEY CAN DO IT IN THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY.

THEN ALONG COMES THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

IT WAS THERE ALL ALONG, BUT NOW IT IS REALLY BEING FELT.

THE BRUNT OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS FELT BY THE WEAPON BECAUSE THEIR JOB GETS SO MUCH HARDER.

THEY CAN'T FIND WATER OR WOOD.

80% OF THEM ARE DISPLACED.

IT IS WOMEN THAT MOSTLY, WHO ARE DISPLACED BY CLIMATE CRISES AND THEY ARE THE LAST TO BE RESCUED.

AND SO, WE REALIZED NOW THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS IF WE ARE GOING TO CONFRONT THE CLIMATE CRISIS SUCCESSFULLY, WE HAVE TO SEND RESOURCES DIRECTLY TO WOMEN.

MOST OF THE BIG FUNDING ORGANIZATIONS, IT DOESN'T GET TO THE GRASS ROOTS.

IT'S ALL UP HERE.

>> WHERE DOES IT GO?

THE FUNDING?

>> I THINK WOMEN ARE TAKING FOR GRANTED.

WHEN BIG FUNDERS FOCUS ON GOVERNMENT, I FEEL THEY KNOW THAT WOMEN ARE GOING TO REBUILD ECONOMIES ANYWAY.

WOMEN ARE GOING TO SUBSIDIZE THROUGH THEIR UNPAID CARE WORK, PROVISION OF ENERGY AND ANY GAP THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING PARTICULARLY IN AFRICA, WOMEN ARE GOING TO DO IT FOR FREE.

THIS IS WHY THE CLIMATE, THE MONEY INTENDED FOR CLIMATE ENDS UP JUST UP THERE WITH GOVERNMENT AND NOT WITH THE PEOPLE.

>> OUR STATISTIC IS ONLY 2% OF FUNDING FOR CLIMATE CRISIS IS GIVEN TO WOMEN LED GROUPS.

>> BUT IT IS WOMEN WHO REALLY DO THE WORK.

THEY ARE THE BRUNT OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS.

15 YEARS LATER, AFTER THE FOUNDING OF THE FRONT LINE WOMEN, AND, THE FRONT LINE WOMEN FUND, IT GIVES MONEY DIRECTLY.

THERE IS NO MIDDLEMEN.

THERE IS NO TRICKLE DOWN.

STRAIGHT TO THE WOMEN ON THE GROUND.

>> IT IS LIKE MICRO FINANCE?

NOT EXACTLY.

BUT, THEY FOUND THAT WHEN EVER THEY GAVE ALONE, THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD PAY THEM BACK IN SPADES WAS WOMEN.

ALWAYS ON TIME.

>> WHEN YOU GIVE IT TO THE WOMEN, THE COMMUNITY BENEFITS.

WE LAUNCHED THE JANE FONDA GENDER AND CLIMATE JUSTICE FUND TO TRY TO MITIGATE THE CLIMATE EFFECTS ON THE GROUND.

THIS IS ALL GLOBAL STUFF HERE.

THE FIRST COHORT TODAY WAS ECUADOR.

INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IN ECUADOR.

IT WAS NIGERIA, SENEGAL AND ONE MORE.

INDONESIA.

YEAH.

>> SO LOOK, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AN ACTIVIST.

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PASSIONATE.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THIS LITERAL GLOBAL SUPERSTAR WHO HAS DEVOTED MAYBE MORE AMOUNT OF HER WORK TO ACTIVISM THAN JUST FILM?

>> THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.

WE NEED MORE JANE FONDAS OF THE WORLD.

WE NEED FOR FRONT LINE WOMEN DEFENDERS.

WE NEED SUCH ORGANIZATIONS BECAUSE THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS NOT A CRISIS THAT CAN BE DONE BY JUST WOMEN IN AFRICA.

THIS IS A CRISIS THAT IS GLOBAL IN NATURE.

AND THEREFORE, THIS IS THE TIME FOR ALL PEOPLE WHO CARE, FOR PEOPLE IN THE PLAN IT TO COME TOGETHER AND SAY WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

AND THIS IS THE TIME WHEN WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE PEOPLE CARRYING THE SEVERE BURDEN OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS ARE WOMEN LIVING ON THE FRONT LINES OF THESE CLIMATE DISASTERS.

>> THE U.N.

SAYS WHEN DISASTER STRIKES, WOMEN AND CHILDREN ARE 14 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE THAN MEN.

I WANT TO FOCUS A LITTLE ON THE DEMOCRACY PART OUT OF THE.

WE ARE IN A SITUATION IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE VERY IDEA OF DEMOCRACY AND FREE SPEECH IS A MAJOR ISSUE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN YOUR COUNTRY?

DID YOU SIGN THE HOLLYWOOD LETTER ABOUT JIMMY KIMMEL TO BRING HIM BACK?

>> YES.

THAT WAS THE ACLU.

ALL GOVERNMENTS AND REGIMES, BE THEY FASCISTIC OR DEMOCRATIC, THEY ARE HELD UP BY PILLARS OF SUPPORT.

THE MILITARY, THE MEDIA.

ART, ET CETERA.

IF YOU ORGANIZE WITHIN THE PILLARS OF SUPPORT, THEN YOU BEGIN TO AFFECT THE REGIME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BECAME CLEAR WITH KIMMEL BEING BROUGHT BACK ON AIR BY DISNEY, DON'T YOU THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE WERE CANCELING THEIR DISNEY SUBSCRIPTION?

WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO AFFECT THE POCKETBOOK.

WE HAVE TO USE DEMOCRATIC MEANS.

WE HAVE TO DO IT FAST.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK AS AN ACTIVIST AND COUNTERCULTURE OF THE 60s, YOU WERE A GREAT ACTRESS BUT ALSO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTERCULTURE.

THERE WASN'T SEEM TO BE AN EVOLVED COUNTERCULTURE IN THE WEST.

IN THE 60s IN PARIS, THE UNITED STATES.

ALL OVER.

IT WAS SOMEHOW PEOPLE RESPONDING TO WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THREATEN THEIR FREEDOMS.

>> THE COUNTERCULTURE, IT'S NOT LIKE IT WAS IN THE 60s BECAUSE THIS THE NEEDS ARE DIFFERENT RIGHT NOW.

WE CAN'T ALLOW THE PEOPLE WHO ARE KIND OF COUNTER TO BE CALLED DOMESTIC TERRORISTS!

GREEN PEACE WAS SUED AT A TRIAL IN NORTH DAKOTA.

THEY WERE SUED AND NOW THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

$660MILLION.

IT IS CALLED A SLAP SUIT.

IT IS USING GREEN PEACE AS ABOUT EXAMPLE TO SILENCE PUBLIC PROTEST.

CAN'T ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.

WE HAVE TO FIGHT IT.

>> CAN I TAKE A HARD LEFT OR RIGHT RIGHT NOW?

>> I HOPE IT'S LEFT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> ROBERT REDFORD.

THE COSTAR OF YOUR FOUR MOVIES.

>> I MADE FOUR MOVIES WITH HIM.

PROBABLY THE MOST GORGEOUS OF MEN.

OH, I LOVED HIM.

YOU KNOW THE FIRST MOVIE, NO, THE SECOND MOVIE WE DID TOGETHER WAS "BAREFOOT IN THE PARK. "

HE HAD JUST PURCHASED THE VALLEY IN UTAH.

SO EXCITED TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO WITH IT.

AND ALL THAT.

HE HAD A VISION.

HE CHANGED MOVIE MAKING AND MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

THERE IS A BIG HOLE IN MY HEART.

HE WAS LOVED AND RESPECTED.

>> YOU SAID WHEN YOU POSTED YOU SAID YOU COULDN'T STOP CRYING.

>> I COULDN'T.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

HE WAS SUCH A PRESENCE.

I WAS ALWAYS IN LOVE WITH HIM.

>> DID YOU HAVE A FAVORITE MOVIE?

>> THERE WAS THE CHASE FIRST.

AND THEN BAREFOOT IN THE PARK.

THEN ELECTRIC HORSEMAN AND MY FAVORITE IS BAREFOOT IN THE PARK.

>> AND YOU, I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE.

>> I'M ALMOST 88.

>> OKAY, THAT'S REMARKABLE.

AND YOU ARE ACTIVE AS ANYTHING.

HOW IS IT GETTING ROLES?

>> I HAVEN'T WORKED IN TWO YEAR.

I'M SCARED TO DEATH.

I SHOULDN'T SAY THIS.

I KNOW.

BUT, I MADE THREE MOVIES IN ONE YEAR AND I HAVEN'T WORKED SINCE THEN.

AND I WANT TO WORK AND I NEED TO WORK.

I MISS THE CRAFT.

IT IS A NOBLE PROFESSION THAT WE ARE IN.

GETTING INTO THE SKIN OF ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

THAT'S WHY WE TEND TO BE VERY EMPATHIC, ACTORS DO.

YOU HAVE TO GET TO KNOW THE PERSON INTIMATELY TO BECOME THEM.

>> JANE FONDA, MELA, THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH INDEED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND JANE SHOULD STILL BE BEING CAST.

SO FIERY, SO PASSIONATE.

SO TALENTED.

SINCE WE SPOKE, JANE FONDA IS TAKING HER ACTIVISM INTO ANOTHER IMPORTANT REALM.

PROTECTING FREE SPEECH FROM GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP.

SHE HAS RELAUNCHED THE COMMITTEE FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENTMENT THE MCCARTHY ERA INITIATIVE STARTED BY HER FATHER HENRY FONDA.

>> NORTH KOREA VOWED TO NEVER GIVE UP ITS NUCLEAR ARSENAL.

THE ANNOUNCEMENT COMES AT A POLITICALLY UNSTABLE TIME WITH GROWING INTERNATIONAL CONCERNS AROUND NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION.

AMID THESE THREATS, A BIPARTISAN TASK FORCE HAS URGED THE UNITED STATES TO RECONSIDER HOW IT INTERCEPTS THE EXPANSION OF THIS DESTRUCTIVE.

>> THANK YOU CHRISTIANE AND MEGAN O' SULLIVAN AND ARNIE MUNEZ.

YOU AND ERNIE WERE AMONG THE COCHAIRS OF A REPORT THAT JUST CAME OUT.

I THINK IT WAS PUBLISHED RECENTLY ON THE TASK FORCE ON NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION AND NATIONAL SECURITY.

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT?

>> THE ORIGINS OF THE TASK FORCE I WOULD SAY GO BACK JUST AS FAR AS 1964.

WE THINK ABOUT THAT TIME, CHINA DETONATED A NUCLEAR WEAPON AND PRESIDENT LYNDON JOHNSON BROUGHT TOGETHER A GROUP OF FOREIGN POLICY EXPERTS TO SAY WHAT IS THE NEXT PHASE OF POTENTIAL NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION LOOK LIKE?

IT WAS CALLED THE GILPATRICK COMMISSION.

THEY CAME OUT WITH A NUMBER OF CONSIDERATIONS THAT WERE IMPLEMENTED AND LED TO 60 YEARS OF MINIMAL PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

NOW WE ARE AT A PERIOD WHERE ERNIE AND OUR OTHER COCHAIR FROM THE CARNEGIE ENDOW.

MENT, WE ARE AT THE MOMENT WHERE PROLIFERATION HAS NOT BEEN RATER.

WE ARE FACED WITH A RAPIDLY CHANGING GEO POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT.

WE CONVENE THIS BIPARTISAN TASK FORCE IN AN EFFORT TO LOOK AT THE QUESTION.

IS THIS A NATIONAL SECURITY PRIORITY OF THE UNITED STATES TO ADVANCE NONPROLIFERATION?

AND IF SO, ARE THE TOOLS AND THE ARCHITECTURE, ARE THEY STILL WELL SUITED TO TODAY?

AND THAT WAS THE REASON THAT WE CONVENED THAT TASK FORCE AND THE RESULTS WERE PUBLISHED JUST LAST WEEK.

>> IT WAS CHAIRED 60 YEARS AGO BUT ROSS GILPATRICK.

BUT IT WAS A LYNDON JOHNSON PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION.

IS THERE A PROBLEM THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE GOVERNMENT?

THE PRESIDENT TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT?

>> WELL, WALTER, I THINK CLEARLY, FIRST OF ALL, LET WE SAY THIS TASK FORCE CAME TO THE SAME HIGH LEVEL CONCLUSION THAT IT IS CENTRAL TO OUR SECURITY AND SHOULD REMAIN A PRIORITY.

BUT THIS COMMISSION WAS A NONGOVERNMENTAL COMMISSION AND ONE OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS WAS ABOUT THE NEED TO REALLY RETHINK EXTENDED DETERRENTS.

I WOULD SAY GOING BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, TODAY, SOME OF THE DIRECTIONS BEING TAKEN IN THE UNITED STATES BY THE ADMINISTRATION, THEY DO ELEVATE SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS ABOUT RELIABILITY ABOUT U.S.

COMMITMENT.

I WOULD SAY THAT DISTINCTION REALLY DID COME INTO PLAY IN OUR CONSIDERATIONS.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT EXTENDED DETERRENTS.

THOSE OF YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEANS IN THE FOREIGN BUSINESS POLICY.

DON'T GET NUCLEAR WEAPONS OF YOUR OWN.

DON'T WORRY.

WE THE U. S. WILL USE OUR DETERRENT CAPABILITY SO YOU DON'T NEED THEM.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS BELIEVABLE THESE DAYS, MEGAN?

IS THAT STILL A GOOD POLICY?

WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING EXTENDED DETERRENTS?

>> THERE ARE TWO IMPORTANT POINTS.

THE FIRST IS YES, THE TASK FORCE WAS UNEQUIVOCAL IN SAYING THAT DEVELOPING, MAINTAINING A ROBUST EXTENDED DETERRENCE THE ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO A SUCCESSFUL CONTINUATION OF NONPROLIFERATION OBJECTIVES.

NOW WE RECOGNIZE IT IS HARDER TODAY TO MAKE THAT A CREDIBLE ARGUMENT TO MANY OF OUR ALLY AND NOT JUST AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

IT IS REALLY OVER THE SPAN OF MULTIPLE ADMINISTRATIONS THAT MANY OF OUR ALLIES ARE QUESTIONING AMERICA'S COMMITMENT AND RELIABILITY.

SOME OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH, IT GOES BACK TO IS AMERICA OVEREXTENDED?

I WOULD SAY PARTICULARLY NOW, THERE ARE MANY ALLIES WHO ARE QUESTIONING WHETHER OR NOT THE UNITED STATES WILL BE WILLING TO USE THE EXTENDED DETERRENT OR PROVIDE IT.

I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE CREATED THE TASK FORCE.

YOU HAVE CHINA BECOMING A COUNTRY THAT HAS A VERY LARGE NUCLEAR ARSENAL.

RUSSIA AND IRAN.

QUESTIONS OVER EXTENDED DETERRENTS.

>> WE JUST HEARD MEGAN SAY VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, HAS BEEN THROWING AROUND THE IMPLICATION THAT HE COULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

IN A SPEECH THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP GAVE TO THE MILITARY THIS WEEK, HE KIND OF ADDRESSED THAT HE SAYS WE CANNOT LET PEOPLE THROW AROUND THAT WORD.

THE N WORD.

BY N WORD HE MEANT NUCLEAR.

DO YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS ON THIS PAGE THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO KEEP A DETERRENCE AND NONPROLIFERATION POLICY?

>> YES I DO.

JUST TO ELABORATE SLIGHTLY ON WHAT MEGAN SAID.

PART OF THE EXTENDED DETERRENCE IS THE IDEA THAT OUR ALLIES NEED TO STRENGTHEN THEIR MILITARY POSTURES AND THEN HAVE THOSE POSTURES INTEGRATED WITH OUR NUCLEAR DETERRENT.

STRENGTHENING THEIR CONVENTIONAL POSTURES IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN ADVOCATING.

I WOULD ALSO SAY WITH REGARD TO RUSSIA SPECIFICALLY, BUT ALSO, I WOULD SAY CHINA.

CLEARLY A LOT OF THE SUCCESS IN NONPROLIFERATION DURING THE COLD WAR CAME GREAT POWER RELATIONSHIPS.

THE U. S. AND THE USSR AND THEN RUSSIA WORKING TOGETHER DESPITE DISAGREEMENTS ON SHARED INTEREST IN NON-PROLIFERATION.

THAT CONTINUES TODAY.

IT IS A LITTLE BIT CREAKY, THE GREAT POWER COORDINATION.

BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE AGAIN RECOMMEND REENGAGING IN THAT DESPITE THE DIFFERENCES WITH RUSSIA AND CHINA.

PRESIDENT TRUMP LONG BEFORE HE WAS PRESIDENT GOING BACK TO THE 1980s WAS SPEAKING OUT AGAINST NUCLEAR WEAPONS, HE HAS SPOKEN MANY TIMES ABOUT TRYING TO DECREASE THEIR ROLE IN OUR SECURITY POSTURE.

IN FACT IT WAS JUST EARLIER THIS YEAR IN MAY WHERE VICE PRESIDENT VANCE EXPLICITLY SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT I THINK TO USE HIS WORDS HATES PROLIFERATION AND I HATE PROLIFERATION.

THERE ARE ELEMENTS THERE TO BUILD ON AND THAT IS WHAT OUR REPORT TRIES TO ADDRESS AND TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS.

FOR EXAMPLE, I'LL END BY JUST SAYING THAT ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS IS THE THREE COUNTRIES PERHAPS EXPANDED TO OTHER NUCLEAR WEAPON STATES.

AT LEAST THE FIVE ORIGINAL WEAPON STATES COULD COLLECTIVELY COMMIT TO NOT THREATEN OR USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST NONNUCLEAR WEAPON STATES.

THAT WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE FOR THEM.

>> PUTIN JUST DID THE OPPOSITE.

NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST A NONNUCLEAR STATE.

UKRAINE.

>> EXACTLY.

THAT IS ONE REASON WHY WE HAVE SAID, I HAVE SAID FOR SURE THAT PRESIDENT PUTIN REALLY CROSSED A LINE THERE AND DID SOMETHING UNPRECEDENTED.

THE IDEA HERE IS IT WOULD BE GREAT TO PUT THAT GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE.

IT'S NOT EASY.

BUT THAT KIND OF NEGATIVE SECURITY ASSURANCE WOULD BE WE THINK QUITE EFFECTIVE IF WE COULD GET THERE.

AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN GOING IN THAT DIRECTION.

>> MEGAN, TALKING ABOUT UKRAINE, UKRAINE HAD NUCLEAR WEAPONS WHEN IT ENDED UP NOT BEING PART OF THE SOVIET UNION AND WE CONVINCED THEM TO GIVE UP THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS BY SAYING DON'T WORRY.

YOU DON'T NEED THEM.

WE'LL DEFEND YOU.

BOY, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN TALK OTHER COUNTRIES INTO DOING THAT.

>> I THINK AS YOU KNOW, WALTER, A VERY LONG HISTORY THERE AND CONTESTED IN SOME WAYS BUT I THINK THE BIG POINT YOU ARE MAKING IS A VERY VALID POINT.

THAT MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, NOT ONLY LOOK AT UKRAINE AND GIVING UP NUCLEAR WEAPONS THAT WERE ON THEIR SOIL BUT THEY LOOK AT THE LIBYAN EXAMPLE OR THE IRAQ EXAMPLE AND THEY THINK COUNTRY THAT'S GIVE UP NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR DON'T HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE ONES THAT ARE SUBJECT TO AGGRESSION.

AND THEY LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES, THE MOST OBVIOUS ONE BEING NORTH KOREA, THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THIS CENTURY TO HAVE ACQUIRED NUCLEAR WEAPONS ACTUALLY, AGAINST PERHAPS ALL ODDS, YOU SEE THE LEADER OF NORTH KOREA COMFORTABLY IN PLACE.

THE LESSON MANY COUNTRIES HAVE IS THE PURSUING A NUCLEAR WEAPON COULD BE IN THEIR NATURAL SECURITY INTEREST.

THE PURPOSE OF THE TASK FORCE IS TO ASK HOW WE CAN RECALIBRATE OUR POLICY AND UPGRADE OUR TOOLS AND ARCHITECTURE TO MAKE SURE THAT COUNTRIES ARE NOT MAKING THOSE KINDS OF CALCULATIONS.

SO THEY HAVE NEW OR MORE CREDIBLE INCENTIVE TO STAY NON- NUCLEAR.

ONE OF THE FINDINGS OF THE TASK FORCE WHICH I THINK IS VERY SIGNIFICANT IS THAT AGAIN, A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF FOREIGN POLICY NATIONAL SECURITY EXPERTS AGREED EVEN THE U.S.

ALLIES SHOULD NOT BE IN A POSITION TO GAIN A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

THAT IS NOT IN THE U. S. INTEREST.

THAT IT IS IN THE U. S. INTEREST TO CONVINCE THEM NOT TO PURSUE ONE.

THE REASON THIS IS SO SIGNIFICANT.

SOME OF YOUR VIEWERS MAY KNOW THERE IS AN ACTIVE CONVERSATION IN WASHINGTON ABOUT WELL MAYBE IT WOULD BE CHEAPER AND MORE EFFICIENT AND EASIER FOR THE UNITED STATES IF SOME OF OUR ALLIES HAD THEIR OWN NUCLEAR WEAPON.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO PROVIDE THAT EXTENDED DETERRENT IN THE SAME WAY.

AND THIS GROUP REALLY CONCLUDED THAT IS VERY RISKY APPROACH TO TAKE.

AND WE NEED TO INVEST, AGAIN, IN FINDING A WAY TO ENSURE THAT OUR ALLIES DO NOD NEED TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD TO GUARANTEE THEIR OWN SECURITY.

>> HOW COULD YOU SAY WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TO THE PEOPLE OF SOUTH KOREA THAT NOW WE HAVE ALLOWED NORTH KOREA TO GET A NUCLEAR WEAPON, THAT THEY ARE SAFER AND BETTER OFF?

>> DO WE THINK WE NEED TO MAINTAIN OUR ALLIANCE WITH SOUTH KOREA.

WE CONTINUE TO PROVIDE A NUCLEAR DETERRENT.

WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS IN AN INTEGRATED WAY, IMPROVING OUR CONVENTIONAL CAPABILITIES.

AS A REMINDER AND YOU KNOW THIS QUITE WELL, THE THREATS TO SOUTH KOREA ARE NOT ONLY FROM NORTH KOREA'S NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES.

THEY HAVE ARTILLERY LINED UP ALONG THE BORDER WITH SOUTH KOREA THAT COULD PRETTY MUCH ANNIHILATE SEOUL.

SO IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO TO AN INTEGRATED REGIONAL STRATEGY FOR SECURITY.

THAT IS WHAT WE WOULD ADVOCATE.

>> MEGAN, YOU ARE NOT JUST A DEFENSE EXPERT.

A FOREIGN POLICY EXPERT.

WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS, WE TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR RUSSIA AND CHINA TO WORK TOGETHER WITH US TO DO IT.

THAT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ARE IN THE LEAST CAPABLE POSITION WE HAVE BEEN IN FOR 20, 30 YEARS TO GET THOSE COUNTRIES TO WORK WITH US.

IN FACT, SOMEHOW, WE HAVE DRIVEN RUSSIA AND CHINA INTO A CLOSER PARTNERSHIP AT LEAST.

THERE IS SO MUCH WE WOULD NEED TO DO WITH BOTH COUNTRIES FROM AI TO CLIMATE TO NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION TO BIO TO GENE EDITING.

IS THERE A WAY WE CAN GET BACK TO HAVING A MORE PRAGMATIC RELATIONSHIP, ESPECIALLY WITH CHINA?

>> THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS SORT OF TWOFOLD.

ONE, IN THE REPORT WE TALK ABOUT HOW HAVING A SUCCESS SUCCESSFULLY REJUVENATED NON PROLVIVER RATION.

WE SAY WE ARE HOPEFUL AND WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THOSE TALKS HAPPEN AS SOON AS IS POSSIBLE.

BUT MOST IMPORTANT, WE ACKNOWLEDGE AND MAKE THE CASE VERY CREDIBLY THAT WE STILL HAVE COMMON INTERESTS WITH BOTH MOSCOW AND BEIJING IN PREVENTING MORE STATES FROM BECOMING NUCLEAR WEAPON STATES.

YOU SAY CAN WE IMAGINE A WORLD IN WHICH WE ARE HAVING PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, WE ARE SAYING WE SHOULD NOT WAIT UNTIL THE RELATIONSHIP IS NOT THAT THAWED TO PURSUE THESE TALKS.

WE SHOULD TRY TO FIND WAYS TO PURSUE THIS.

IT IS ACTUALLY INTERESTING ON THE DAY WE RELEASED THE REPORT.

VLADIMIR PUTIN SAID HE WOULD BE WILLING TO ADHERE TO THE LIMITS ON DEVELOPMENT OF NUCLEAR ARSENALS A YEAR BEYOND THE EXPIRATION OF THE NEW STAR TREATY.

AS OF FEBRUARY, 2026, THE WORLD WILL BE WITHOUT ANY LIMITATIONS ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES.

>> DO YOU THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WILL WANT TO EXTEND THE STRATEGIC ARMS REDUCTION TREATY?

>> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BUT IT WOULD MAKE TO ME A LOT OF SENSE TO TAKE VLADIMIR PUTIN UP ON THAT.

I THINK THERE MIGHT BE OTHER MOTIVATIONS THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS IN EXTENDING THAT OFFER.

PERHAPS HE IS TRYING TO MUDDY THE WATER OR LOOKING FOR LIMITATIONS ON THE GOLDEN DOME PROJECT.

BUT YOU KNOW, WITHOUT COMMENTING ON WHAT OTHER ELEMENTS MIGHT COME INTO THAT CONVERSATION, I WOULD IMAGINE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WOULD FIND IT IN ITS INTEREST TO HAVE MORE TIME TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP A FOLLOWON TO THE NEW START.

THIS GOES BACK TO ERNIE'S POINT.

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS MADE IT CLEAR HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN SEEING ANY MORE NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION AROUND THE WORLD.

SO THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD RECOGNIZE AS A POSITIVE STEP.

THOUGH NOT MISTAKE IT FOR ANY KIND OF WARMING OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH MOSCOW.

>> CAN I ADD I THINK IT IS EASY TO BE CYNICAL ABOUT THE OFFER.

FRANKLY, NEITHER ARE WE IN A POSITION TO EXPAND OUR NUCLEAR ARSENAL RIGHT NOW GIVEN SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN TERMS OF SO- CALLED MODERNIZING THE ARSENAL.

NEVERTHELESS, COMPLETELY AGREE WITH MEGAN THAT HAVING THOSE GUARDRAILS AT LEAST EXTENDED IS A VERY GOOD SIGNAL.

AND ONE THAT HAS TO BE CAPITALIZED ON BY HAVING OTHER DISCUSSIONS START.

DESPITE THE UKRAINE SITUATION, WE CAN'T HAVE OTHER DISCUSSIONS.

BY THE WAY, NEW START PUTTINGS THESE QUANTITATIVE LIMITS.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER ELEMENTS AS WELL IN TERMS OF INSPECTIONS.

VERY TRICKY IN THIS CURRENT ENVIRONMENT.

IN TERMS OF DATA EXCHANGE WHICH COULD STILL BE POSSIBLE.

CERTAINLY ALERTS IN TERMS OF MISSILE TESTS.

SO I THINK THE ISSUE IS I VERY MUCH HOPE THE PRESIDENT WILL ACCEPT THE OFFER BUT ACCEPT IT WITH THE STATEMENT AND LET'S KEEP TALKING AND GET SOME OTHER THINGS IN PLACE.

>> MEGAN AND ERNIE, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.

>> SO INTERESTING, AND FINALLY, WE REMEMBER THE LIFE OF THE CONSERVATIONIST AND PRIMATOLOGIST.

JANE GOODALL DIED LEAVING BEHIND A TOWERING UNDERSTANDING OF OUR CLOSEST PRIMATE COUSINS, SHE LED TO A GROUND BREAKING DISCOVERY PROVING THAT CHIMPANZEES WERE CAPABLE OF MAKING AND USING TOOLS JUST LIKE HUMANS.

>> YOU ARE NOT A SCIENTIST AND YOU COME BACK WITH THIS REVELATION.

I MEAN, HOW DID YOU STICK TO YOUR GUNS?

DID PEOPLE SAY EXCUSE ME, WHO ARE YOU?

>> THE SCIENTISTS DID.

FORTUNATELY, I LOVED ANIMALS ALL MY LIFE.

I HAD AN AMAZING SUPPORTIVE MOTHER AND I HAD A GREAT TEACHER WHEN I WAS A CHILD WHO TAUGHT ME ABSOLUTELY THESE PROFESSORS AT CAMBRIDGE, VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE.

BUT, THIS TEACHER TAUGHT ME WHEN IT COMES TO ANIMAL PERSONALITY, MIND AND EMOTION, THEY'RE WRONG.

AND THAT WAS MY DOG.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A DOG, A CAT, A BIRD, A HORSE, I DON'T CARE WHAT.

AND NOT KNOW THAT OF COURSE WE ARE NOT THE ONLY BEINGS WITH PERSONALITY, MIND, AND EMOTION.

>> GOODALL'S LOVE OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM TRANSCENDED THE SOMETIMES ALL TOO VICIOUS HUMAN WORLD.

SHE WILL BE SORELY MISSED.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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ORG/AMANPOUR.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT AND SO LONG FROM LONDON.