>>Coming up, Matt and his team help a couple downsize their sprawling ancestral home filled with hundreds of family heirlooms.

>>Six generations of stuff in the house.

Nobody threw anything out.

>>There he is.

>>And along the way, learn the truth about the property's troubling history.

>>The reality is we're on land.

People from the Civil War lived here.

There were slaves on this property.

>>I sort of wanna make sure that my children aren't burdened with it.

>>I'm Matt Paxton.

Let's do it, man.

My team of specialists, Jaime, Mike, and Avi, help me help people downsize their homes and settle estates.

As the largest population of baby boomers in American history transition towards retirement.

they and their families face the overwhelming task of emptying their homes to move.

We help them sift through a lifetime of possessions, heirlooms, and collectibles.

>>Oh, my gosh.

>>She's gonna love that.

>>To help them find the missing family treasures that mean the most to them.

>>Oh, my goodness!

>>Jackie Robinson.

And along the way, they'll discover that the most important museum in the world may be in their family's basement.

>>Oh!

>>I've never seen that.

That is cool looking.

>>From attics to cellars, closets to cupboards, we uncover the memories they want to preserve.

This is living history.

This is what we're here to find.

And discover the compelling, personal, and often historical stories spanning generations that are their family's legacy.

>>[Female Announcer] Support for Legacy List comes from MakeSpace.

MakeSpace picks up, stores and return your items on demand.

Available for home or business.

MakeSpace provides professional movers, plus bins, blankets and a digital photo inventory.

You can find us at makespace.com.

And by ensure long-term care where we believe aging at home near friends and family is ever more possible for more people.

Learn more at insureltc.com.

AARP Virginia offering family caregiving support with prepare to care and down sizing and decluttering on line workshops designed to help organize and assess family needs Find the complete online workshop schedule At AARP.org/virtual VA The Ruth Camp Campbell Foundation (bright upbeat music) >>I'm on my way to Leesburg, Virginia to meet Libby Devlin.

She and her husband, Nick, own the Historic Rockland Farms.

It's a massive property.

They're thinking about selling the home, but before they do that, they've got to downsize a lot of items.

The hardest part about downsizing is getting started and that's why they brought our team in.

We're gonna go through the house, help them declutter a little bit, and hopefully find some really awesome treasures along the way.

>>Hey!

>>Libby!

Good to meet you!

>>You made it!

>>All right, we can't hug anymore, so I'm gonna do the elbows.

This is amazing.

>>It's been in my family for over 200 years.

>>200 years.

>>And if you look all the way up there, you can see my great-great-great grandfather's initials who built the house in 1822.

>>I heard it was big.

I didn't realize how big it is.

How far does it go?

>>600 acres, and it goes all the way to the Potomac River.

We have about a mile of frontage on the Potomac River.

Six generations of stuff in the house.

Nobody threw anything out.

>>So every generation kept everything.

And now, who's here?

Who lives here?

>>- [Libby] Just me and my husband.

And I guess it's kind of come down to us to figure it out.

>>Let's do it.

I'm a little slow, I broke my foot, so bear with me on the steps.

>>How did you do that?

>>I fell off of the street.

>>How do you fall off a street?

>>That's a very good question.

[Matt] This is amazing.

[Matt] Gorgeous paintings on the steps.

>>Goes three stories up and another large basement underneath.

>>Who is this?

>>- [Libby] This is Ollie.

He would like to be in everybody's >>life.

>>center of attention.

>>Okay.

Well, hello, Ollie.

[Matt] All right, this is incredible.

Talk to me.

What do you know about this clock?

I see a lot of clocks.

>>- [Libby] I don't know.

It's a grandfather clock.

>>Correct.

>>I don't really know anything about it.

>>All right.

>>This is special, but what you really need to see are these windows.

This is really special to me.

So this is George Rust's signature.

>>Well, I'm seeing a lot of signatures.

Walk me through this.

>>So whenever we have a family wedding here, the wedding party all signs with a diamond tip pen in the window.

So this is my and my husband's wedding.

And this is... [Libby] Let me see.

This is my sister up here.

My parents are over down there.

And my brother.

>>I have never seen this.

This is so cool.

This is a real legacy.

>>It really is, yeah.

>>Oh, my gosh.

>>Okay, so this is the formal living room.

>>Very formal.

>>And this is a portrait of General George Rust.

That's my great-great-great grandfather.

>>Great-great-great grandfather.

>>I got it.

Yeah.

This is his wife, Maria Marlow Claggett.

She had an unfortunate death.

The women back then wore very big skirts and the houses were heated by big fireplaces.

And it was quite a common thing I've been told, is that she actually caught fire, her dress caught fire, and died.

>>Wow.

>>So yeah, that was a sad ending.

>>Holy cow.

Okay.

And now she lives on forever in your formal room.

>>And then I wanted to show you this.

He was head of the artillery for Harper's Ferry and this is his gun.

>>This is incredible, and it is insanely heavy.

>>I know.

How did they ever shoot?

>>Gosh, you could do workouts with this thing.

>>You could.

You totally could.

I don't know how they could shoot with any accuracy with it.

The weight of those things.

>>I mean, this is really heavy just to hold it up.

Golly day.

>>And then I have to show you this.

>>Yeah.

This is really nice folk art, obviously.

>>Yeah.

It's cloggers.

>>Wow.

>>And some guy put it together with old carburetors, and it's just a really fun piece.

>>Well, it's a spectacular piece.

It's Appalachian folk art.

I'm in love with this.

>>It's great, isn't it?

[Libby] Okay, so here's the dining room.

>>Wow.

Who's this?

>>This is Ida Lee Rust.

So she has quite a story about her.

She was the second wife of Armistead Thomson Mason Rust.

When he married Ida Lee, they had 11 children, plus the three from the first wife.

Then Armistead died, and it was after the Civil War, the place was in debt, and Ida Lee somehow managed to pull it out of debt and keep it in the family by herself.

>>So the amazing property that we're standing on would not exist without this woman?

So you have a special place?

>>She's kind of my idol.

>>I love it.

This looks like Mozart's high school yearbook.

What's going on here?

>>This is the Lee line.

And that's Richard Henry Lee.

I don't know how many great grandfather and signer of the Declaration of Independence.

>>Okay, so someone in your family signed the Declaration of Independence?

>>Correct.

>>It's awesome and it's a heavy obligation as well.

>>Yeah.

>>There's a lot.

>>There's a lot here.

>>Going on.

>>There's a lot here.

>>One of the concerns I had about this property is there's an obvious negative history here.

Libby and her family immediately acknowledged it, and they said look, we are concerned about this and we know we need to do more and learn more to understand the things that happened on this property.

[Matt] Where's your husband?

>>Oh, he's probably fiddling with something outside in the gardens.

>>All right, cool.

Well, let's go meet him and we'll see what we can do.

[Matt] Wow.

Look at this place.

Holy cow.

It's huge.

>>It is.

Lots of gardens.

>>I can see why they call it Rockland.

>>Nick is out here somewhere, I think.

>>There he is right there.

>>Hey!

>>Hey, Nick!

>>There he is.

>>Hi!

>>Look who I have.

>>How are you?

>>Good to meet you, man.

>>You too.

>>This is incredible.

>>Thank you.

>>I learned a lot about your family inside.

Maybe we can sit over there and go over the Legacy List?

>>That'd be great.

>>All right, cool.

>>Let's do it.

>>Let's do it.

>>Ollie, you first.

>>Waiting for her daddy.

[Matt] Most people that call me are about to move, they're ready to downsize, and we're not there yet with you guys.

Where are you at mentally?

>>Good question.

>>I just feel like we're getting to the point where we need to transition to the next chapter because we're not getting any younger and I don't wanna die here.

I want a simpler life.

>>Yeah, I need a break.

This is just a ton of work.

>>It weighs on you every day.

I can see you're tearing up already.

>>I love the place.

I've grown up loving it, but at the same time, it sort of is an all-consuming project being a steward of this property.

Sometimes you wanna do your own thing.

It's hard.

>>How do you let go of those glass windows that has 200 years of marriage?

>>With my and my husband's name in it.

Something I've been really trying to work through.

>>Okay.

If you include Libby's kids, you have eight generations of people that she feels like she's letting down.

[Matt] It's Legacy List time.

And what a Legacy List is is real simple.

It's just a few items that mean something to you and your family.

And a lot of times, you know where they are, or you know about where they are, and then sometimes you just wanna learn more information about it.

And we're here to help you with all of those.

I'm gonna start with you.

>>Okay.

Because weddings are such a big part of Rockland, so many family members have gotten married here.

You saw the windows.

My great grandmother had a wedding dress, it was up in the attic, and I know that during my wedding, it was displayed on a mannequin, and I just don't know what's happened to it.

I think it might be up in the attic.

It would be really meaningful to find that.

>>All right, Ollie.

You good?

>>Ollie, you're done?

>>All right, Ollie's done.

>>Ah, thank you.

>>Ollie doesn't wanna move either.

I mean, that's the problem.

All right.

Nick, what's your first item?

>>A little while back, the Potomac River was very low, it was a drought, and I had a kayak out there, and I spied a millstone.

Since you have a crew here, maybe we can drag it out of the river.

>>A millstone.

Is it this big, we thinking?

>>It's not this big.

>>How long have you wanted to get this?

>>Well, I've seen this down there for a good four years now and I never dreamed that I'd be able to, but it's something I'd love to do.

>>Okay.

>>Do you have any scuba divers?

>>Sure.

We'll find some stuff.

>>Okay.

>>I mean, we always say we'll help you find anything.

>>Yeah.

I took your word on that.

>>You might test me on this one.

All right.

What's next?

>>About 25 years ago when my grandfather was alive, my grandfather called up my brother and they had this idea of putting together a time capsule.

My brother designed the time capsule and my grandfather pretty much decided what would go in it, the historical things that would go in it.

And so I'd love to- >>That's really cool.

>>If we could figure out how to crack it open.

>>Okay.

Gosh, you guys are pushing me.

So we got a millstone, I got to go diving in a creek, and we're gonna open up a time capsule.

I love it.

Nick, what you got?

[Nick] Okay well, there's some really good art in the place.

>>Yes, there is.

>>There's Audubons and then there's a John Beard painting.

>>Is that Audubon on the stairwell, is that original?

>>I'm pretty sure it is.

Yeah, yeah.

And then we think we might have an Inness.

>>That was right- >>On the staircase.

We know that there were a number of real Inness' here, so we thought perhaps this might be one.

>>So I have a guy on my team that'll come in, and he's one of the top experts in the country on art.

He'll know immediately.

>>Yeah, please.

>>That'd be great.

>>All right, Libby, you got any other ones?

>>I know that Ida Lee, who's kind of one of my heroes for managing to keep this place in the family, she always had a diary and wrote in her diary, and I would love to find that diary to see what wisdom is in there.

>>When I started hearing about the diary of Ida Lee, I realized Libby wants to be the hero, she wants to save this place, and that's when the story kinda came out for me.

>>None of my ancestors ever figured out what was gonna be, how it was gonna end up, and I sort of wanna make sure that my children aren't burdened with it.

>>So you bring up a good point here.

The reality is we're on land, people from the Civil War lived here, there were slaves on this property, and yet this is a very modern property that's changing as well.

I drove up and there's a Black Lives Matter sign.

So there's a lot going on here.

>>My daughters, they put up the Black Lives Matter sign, and my daughters are very determined.

They get it.

It does, it weighs on me, definitely, and the family.

>>And it probably weighs on them.

>>On the one hand, if I had to let go of this place, it would be really literally heart-wrenching for me, but at the same time, it would be very freeing for me.

>>The little house and one acre of land next to a trout stream.

>>Libby absolutely lives in a museum.

It's very difficult to get away from this obligation when you live inside it 24/7.

I'm excited to see what we find.

I just wanna really thank you for letting us into your home, and letting us discuss things that are not always easy to discuss, because sometimes saving a family legacy, sometimes we wanna hide some of this stuff, right, and you've really allowed us to just talk about everything.

So thank you.

>>We need to address it.

Thank you for helping us out.

>>Okay.

Then let's go get started.

>>Great.

>>Oh, hey, Jaime.

>>Hey, guys.

How's it going?

>>Good, good.

>>What's up, everybody?

>>Hey there.

>>What's up, Matt?

>>Do you have something to tell us?

>>Yeah.

I broke my foot.

I was walking down the street, a flat street, and I literally fell off the road and broke my foot.

>>That takes skill.

>>Only you.

>>I know- I'll be a little slower than normal, so I'll need your help.

This place is called Rockland.

It has a cool name.

It's been in this family since it was built.

200 years.

So this is pre-Civil War.

So for you, lots of old military history, lots of guns.

>>Excited for that.

>>Basement's awesome for you.

Just tons to pick at.

I mean tons.

And lots of old vintage clothes.

They used to host weddings here.

>>Oh, cool.

>>There's something I've never seen done at weddings in this house that you're gonna love.

>>I'm excited.

>>This place is awesome.

But here's the challenge with this family.

Normally our clients, they know what they're doing, and these people are stuck.

They need a kick in the butt.

>>The good news is we don't have that sentimental attachment and we can help them figure out ways to get these into new homes.

>>There are some very complicated stories on this land as well.

So we're gonna be talking about some real heavy issues here and trying to get them to let go.

>>I'm just excited to see a little bit more of the property and also to see inside the house.

I'm sure it's like a museum.

>>All right, let's go.

>>Are you sure you're up for that?

>>Yes, I can do it.

There's an active farm here.

They've got lots of cattle.

Yeah.

I mean, they've got it all.

Every time I walk the property, I see something new.

It really is an incredible property.

>>I always love looking through old vintage clothing A lot of my clients get stuck when it comes to going through clothing, either their own clothing or clothing that they've held on to from previous generations.

You keep a lot of it over time, it does end up taking up a lot of space, so it's a great place to start decluttering.

Libby had a lot of stuff in the attic, and so I had a good feeling that the wedding dress might be up there because the rest of the house was pretty pristine.

>>Look, here's a hint.

[Libby] See these shoes?

>>Oh, my gosh.

Cool.

Yeah, let's grab these things and take them downstairs where it's a little bit cooler and look through them.

>>Can you get all that?

Get that door out of the way.

All right.

>>With Libby, she had a lot of pieces that she had held on to, or had been passed down from her from previous generations, and so that gave her hesitation in wanting to go through them and get rid of them.

[Jaime] Look how tiny these are.

>>I know.

>>They're size 34.

>>34?

>>I mean, these wouldn't have been children's shoes.

>>Well, one thing I was wondering, could these have been the shoes that my great-grandmother wore with her wedding?

>>Maybe.

>>Because she was a very small woman.

>>Okay.

This looks like a modern day romper, if you will, where it's like the top and the bottom all put together.

So it's made by Spalding, so maybe it was for some type- >>1917.

>>I mean, when you find things like this in your attic, are you inclined to want to hang on to them because you know that they were part of your family?

Where are you in the process of being able to let things go?

>>Oh, that's hard because obviously that's some vintage thing, but I would never use it.

>>Right.

We don't need to hang on to that.

You can let this go.

This looks like- >>Long underwear?

>>Yeah, long underwear, like pajamas.

Yep.

They're like the long underwear.

>>Long johns.

>>Long johns.

>>Out of Pittsburgh.

>>So it was one of the Rusts because it was Pittsburgh.

>>Okay.

Once we started talking about it and going through it, I found that the decisions were coming easier to her and she was really ready to let go.

So I'm gonna guess you'll be okay parting with these as well?

>>Yeah, definitely.

>>How about your husband?

He won't want them?

>>I don't think he'd want his butt hanging out there.

>>So it looks like we found some cool stuff that did belong to your family, but it's not your great-grandmother's wedding dress, which is really what you're hoping to find.

So I'm gonna run back upstairs.

>>Okay.

>>And if I find anything, I'll bring it down.

I have a really good feeling that it's up there.

>>I hope you find it.

>>Yes.

So wish me luck.

>>Okay.

Good luck.

>>All right.

I really felt the importance of finding her grandmother's wedding dress because the history of Rockland is intertwined with all of these family weddings.

So I really felt the pressure to find this dress.

>>All right, there's something I wanna show you over here in the corner.

>>What's that?

>>Check it out.

I always like to have Avi with me when I'm looking at guns and artillery.

What do you think that is?

>>This is a musket, sir.

>>A musket.

>>Yeah, a single-shot musket.

>>Someone might call us The Two Musketeers.

>>When you have to work a gun like this, a muzzleload, which is loaded in front, you have to pull out the ram right here, and flip it over after you put the powder in, the mini ball.

>>What I'm realizing is the old saying, the white of their eyes.

You gotta be that close to shoot 'em.

>>And that's the big reason why that was even stated because if they weren't that close the likelihood of you hitting it is lower.

>>So you're doing this at the same time that dude right over there is doing it.

>>Running at you.

>>That's crazy.

>>Then you have to cock.

I know people say you're a little half-cocked sometimes, that's where the terminology came from.

>>That's half-cocked?

>>Being half-cocked.

Because many soldiers, if not trained well, would try to fire this gun in a half-cocked position, and it wouldn't fire.

>>Interesting.

So that's where the term came from.

>>That's where the term comes from.

18 years old, you're running face-to-face with another man across from him trying to load this gun and fire.

Crazy.

Hard to imagine.

>>I can't even get my son to mow the lawn.

Can't imagine a kid doing all this.

>>Sending them into battle.

>>A lot of the families that we work with, guns become a romantic part of their history, and Rockland is no different.

I mean, there was apparently a famous duel, actually right across the river from this property, where a good family friend was actually killed, and they actually got the property back into the family because of this duel.

>>Dueling dates back to the Middle Ages when knights would resolve their differences by engaging in mortal combat.

These days, if you get into a public argument with someone, you settle the affair on Twitter, but it wasn't that long ago that matters of honor were settled with three simple words.

Pistols at dawn.

The first published code of dueling appeared in Ireland and established a series of rules that noblemen could follow when settling matters of honor.

During the 17th and early 18th centuries, swords were the weapons of choice, but by the late 18th century, duels were more commonly fought using pistols.

Once a challenge was issued, it was difficult to turn down unless you wanted to be marked as a coward for the rest of your life.

A proper duel was a dignified affair and had strict rules.

Participants would meet at a chosen spot, usually accompanied by a second, who would ensure the rules were followed.

The men would face their opponents at an agreed upon distance with loaded pistols in hand.

Each party would fire one shot.

If neither was hit, and the challenger satisfied, the duel would be declared over with both men's honor still intact.

Dueling was popular in the Americas as well, especially in the South.

Andrew Jackson, our seventh president, fought dozens of duels, with some estimates as high as 100.

But the most famous American duel was fought on July 11th, 1804, between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr, two men who were long-time rivals.

Many believe Hamilton never planned to aim at Burr hoping instead to fire a shot into the air and resolve the matter peacefully, but Burr wasn't as merciful and shot Hamilton in the stomach.

The former secretary of treasury and inspiration for one of Broadway's biggest musicals died the next day.

Duels continued, even among U.S. congressmen for decades.

It was only after the country endured four years of violence brought on by the Civil War that the practice of dueling met its match.

>>Matt is telling us where we're all gonna be picking and working, and, of course, I get the basement, but this wasn't any ordinary basement.

[Mike] So what happened here, Nick?

>>This was the catchall room.

Just, I guess, throwing stuff in here.

>>As I understand it, this is the room that we are going to help you with declutter.

I know you guys have struggled with this room for awhile.

What has been the biggest challenge for you?

>>I know there's treasures in here.

Maybe you can help me with that.

>>Libby had mentioned that seven generations had passed through this house, so I was pretty certain we were gonna find things that dated back hundreds of years, and sure enough, we did.

[Mike] General George Rust.

>>Oh, is that General George Rust's razor?

>>Pretty important name to your family.

>>It's a big name.

How about this painting?

How do I get to it?

>>This is what we see in attics and basements.

Stuff gets tossed in here, and piled on top of.

>>Take a look.

>>Yeah, let's see what we got here.

>>This is where we used to hang the hams.

Right here.

>>Why don't I go ahead and dust this off real quick?

See what we're working with here.

>>There he is.

>>I'll tell you what, this is pretty cool.

>>Yeah.

Is it a print?

What is it?

>>It's a print.

I'm just trying to see if there's any kind of signature or a printer's mark on it, but I don't see anything, but it's beautiful.

>>It is beautiful.

I wanna hang this.

>>Yeah.

Let's get it out of the basement and get it to where people can see it.

>>I think so.

>>At this point, Nick, I'm gonna get my guys in here and we're gonna get started.

>>Let's go for it.

>>All right.

>>I've worked on and off with Avi for over 20 years now.

We were friends in high school.

And people think that he just is a cleaner and an expert.

People don't realize that Avi is also an ordained minister, he is a community leader, and he does a lot with civil rights work in our town.

I wanted him to really tell me what his opinions were of the entire story of the property, not just the positive stuff in the house.

So Avi, this was a working farm, for, gosh, almost 180 years.

And obviously the people that did the work were enslaved people, and this is where they lived.

>>A lot of emotions.

>>Yeah, like what?

>>Just realizing that people who look like me, through families, through pain, through suffering, I'm thankful.

I'm thankful and really grateful for what they did, that they endured that, and I'm able to stand here today, talking with you as a black man, because of them.

There are people still suffering because of this.

>>Yes.

Absolutely.

>>And so we can't just let it go.

We have to talk about it.

We have to have this dialogue.

>>So Libby really wants to know more about this.

She wants to do more.

She doesn't know what we can do.

I'd like for you to sit down with her.

Would you be willing to sit with her and kinda help her?

>>I would love to.

The great thing about our work is the stories we learn about these families and just having the opportunity to bring our own perspective to it.

So I'm really happy to hear that Libby's open to have that conversation, understanding that it's a burden for her, and I wanna be there to help talk her through it.

>>We find history in people's attics and in their homes and this is history.

>>Yeah.

>>It's not comfortable, but it's history, and what I've learned from you is we gotta talk about it.

>>We gotta talk about it.

>>Most of my clients have held on to either their wedding dress or their mother's wedding dress.

It's very sentimental.

It reminds them of a very happy time.

They hope that they'll be able to pass it down to the next generation.

That's what makes it harder to part with wedding dresses and why we find them being held on to so frequently.

I felt really relieved that I found the wedding dress because I knew how important it was for Libby.

The style that it was, the two piece style, is somewhat trendy these days, so it was really, really cool to see something from so long ago that is really relevant and kind of current right now to the trend.

>>No garment is scrutinized, stressed over, and envied more than the dress a bride wears on her wedding day.

It's the centerpiece of an age old ritual with a history as colorful as a bridesmaid's bouquet.

Public marriages date back more than 4,000 years.

Back then, wedding dresses were a way for a family to show off its social status.

Weddings were less about the bride making a fashion statement and more about the joining of two families, often strategic unions arranged by the parents.

In Ancient Rome, marriages were an important social event, celebrated with large parties and feasts.

Wedding dresses varied from culture to culture.

In Spain, brides wear black dresses to show their devotion until death.

Hindu ceremonies call for bright saris, often red with gold embroidery, symbolizing commitment, spirituality, and fertility.

The bride might also apply a dash of red Kakuma powder for good luck.

As trade routes between Europe and the East opened up, a variety of new fabrics became available.

So when did brides start wearing white?

It was none other than Queen Victoria herself, who in 1840 kicked off the tradition of wearing white on your wedding day.

The practice quickly flourished amongst brides in high society, and the tradition was born.

The white wedding dress trend really took root with middle-class brides after World War II.

The reason?

Advanced laundry techniques ensured white dresses stayed white.

Wedding dresses today, like weddings themselves, come in all shapes and sizes.

They've evolved from being a symbol of a family status to an expression of the bride's individuality and style.

>>You mind if we take a look in some of these other cabinets?

>>Let me show you.

>>This may be uranium glass.

If it is true uranium glass, it has uranium to give it the green color.

What do we have here?

>>I think this is what Libby and I used to cut our wedding cake with.

>>Whoa, whoa, whoa, you're telling me at your wedding in front of however many people were there, you pulled this out to cut the wedding cake?

>>I did because my wife told me to.

>>Was she holding the sword when she ordered you to do that?

>>I think we were holding it together.

>>That's amazing.

Whether it's by conversation or through your items, I'm really getting a better picture for just who you are.

>>We like to have a little bit of fun, make people laugh.

>>I think you underplay it a little bit.

>>I can keep something like that around.

We'll do it for our 50th anniversary.

>>Yeah.

It's fun showing you around.

>>Yeah, it's been great.

I'm just amazed, I continue to be amazed at how it just keeps going on and on and on.

>>It does.

It does.

>>I will say every step of the way has been beautiful.

What I love about what we do is, of course, helping them downsize with the physical stuff is always great, but also helping them work through the clutter that's keeping them from moving forward that's not just the stuff.

I feel like it's also part of who we are.

So having a chance to sit with Libby and talk through some of that clutter, I consider a gift.

When did you realize what was happening here at Rockland in terms of having enslaved labor?

>>Not 'till like maybe I was a teenager.

When I used to come and visit my grandparents here, we would stay in what they referred to as the quarters.

And of course, as a little girl, I didn't know why it was named the quarters.

And then we've always since called it the quarters, and I don't even know if that's proper, that's really right to be calling it that still.

>>How did that make you feel, though?

How did you feel when you realized that there were enslaved people here?

>>I guess a little ashamed not knowing what to do with that knowledge.

It's sort of embarrassing.

But it's part of this place.

I don't think a lot was said about it when I was growing up when I'd come visit here.

>>Sure.

>>I don't think a lot was acknowledged about how horrible that was.

>>Right.

>>It was just sort of glazed over.

But knowing that there were people treated differently than the other people that lived here, and they were all living in the same place, it's hurtful.

It's not my values.

>>I love what you said about acknowledgement.

I think we're all in a space of acknowledgement.

And you're wondering where and how, but you're starting right now.

>>Right.

>>It takes difficult conversations like this to move us forward collectively.

>>My wheels are turning.

I think it's the result of this show, actually, talking to Matt, talking to you.

Maybe someday there can be conversations here at Rockland with a diverse group of people to educate each other.

>>I love the fact that you're open to bringing people together.

>>Absolutely.

>>In a space that was so divisive, right?

I think that's the true way to heal.

We have to address the pain, to know it's there, to know the wound does exist, but begin to heal by having these conversations, and not just conversations, but building relationships.

>>Connections, yeah.

>>That we build connection.

That we find likeness in each other.

>>And we can learn from each other.

>>I love that.

What I understand about where we are today in this country is there's a lot of brokenness.

I run to that stuff.

Those are the places I wanna be because that's where you can make a difference.

>>Libby was right.

There was a time capsule in the attic.

This is basically Marine grade PVC pipe, so it's gonna date it.

It's not that old.

>>Yeah, it couldn't be that old.

>>I mean, this is not a Civil War time capsule, but who knows what's in it?

>>I'll tell you with this family, you never know.

>>Yeah.

Let me get this thing open.

I'm gonna let you help me out with this.

I'm gonna loosen it up first.

All right.

You got it.

>>I appreciate it.

>>You need help?

>>There we go.

>>All right, holy cow.

>>Okay.

Okay.

>>Look at this.

What their grandfather did is really cool.

He took a lot of time putting all these things together.

1969.

First man to walk on the moon.

I hope the next generation will appreciate all the work that he went to.

To take the time to do all this.

>>Oh!

>>The very last Sears catalog.

>>Man.

>>Now this is really cool 'cause a lot of times I find the original Sears catalogs, your houses were built.

You'd buy a kit from the Sears catalog.

>>My whole Christmas came out of the Sears catalog.

>>Oh, that's cool.

It can slide.

I know exactly what that is.

>>That the casing?

>>These are cool.

Every good engineer would have one.

Now I know nothing about this family, but man, the time capsule is making us know some stuff.

>>This an education.

This is definitely an education.

National Geographic.

1993 was a significant year.

>>This was just the year they decided to do it.

Everything would've come out of this.

>>You just see a whole family's entire history unfold right before your eyes.

What that means to us means something so totally different to the family.

>>It makes me wanna go make one for my kids, for their kids.

>>I was thinking about that too.

>>This is really cool.

[Matt] There's so much nice furniture and paintings in this house, I've got to bring Lex in.

Even though they're not selling this stuff, I still wanna know what it's worth, but, most importantly, I just need Lex to look at it so I know everything that's here.

Lex.

>>Hey, man.

How are you, dude?

>>I'm well.

>>Good to see you.

>>This place is amazing >>It's amazing, isn't it?

Rockland.

It's incredible.

This house is filled with lots of cool furniture, lots of old books.

Every floor has a library.

>>That's pretty amazing.

>>All right, I feel like we always start >>with a clock.

>>It's a beautiful form.

It's a great clock.

>>Is it George Fix?

>>George Fix was a Reading, Pennsylvania clockmaker.

>>Nothing in this house is for sale really, but if it was for sale, what would something like this go for?

>>Well, it's great size, great proportions, great surface, known maker.

Probably conservatively in the 15,000, maybe on a good day pushing into 20.

But it's a great piece.

Now when I walked in the door, though, I saw something right away.

>>You did?

>>I did.

And from a distance, I could tell what it related to artist-wise.

>>Is it over there?

>>It is.

>>Alright.

That's actually why I called you.

>>Okay, cool.

>>Let's go check it out.

The family was very curious about an Inness.

It was hanging up on the stairwell.

And it's actually the first thing that Lex looked at.

When he walked in the front door, I could see him peering at it.

>>Right away, it has the earmarks of an artist named George Inness who was one of the more important 19th century landscape artists of the latter half.

>>And there were five or six in this house.

>>Really?

>>At one time.

>>Okay.

>>So the family is curious.

>>Right.

>>Is this an Inness?

>>Okay.

The paintings of this particular period, which would be called American Tonalism, was influenced by the European Barbizon.

They tend to be very loosely painted in comparison to the Hudson River School, which is where he started out.

So tighter.

>>Well, that's what I was wondering.

So these aren't detailed.

>>They're not, and they're not meant to be.

It's supposed to be more of an atmospheric picture.

>>Stunning.

And I love the rainbow.

>>Did you see if it was signed?

>>I don't see the signature.

It's possible it's buried under here.

>>Sure, and that does happen.

>>Let's see what kind of markings are over here.

What do you see on the back?

>>Well, that's an early backboard.

What would probably be wise is if we could get permission from the owners to maybe take it out of the frame and we might reveal a signature that...

It does look like it has slid down.

>>I'm really curious if there's a signature there.

We would need to go into a temperature controlled environment to take it off of the frame to get 100% verification, but every part of this painting added up for Lex.

He's pretty confident it's an Inness.

What would something like this go for, if it's an Inness?

>>If it's an Inness, and if it's unsigned, probably in this market, 20 to 30, between that range.

>>What if it's signed?

>>If it's signed, it could push a little harder.

>>I dig this.

I know it is a library chair.

What do you know about something like this?

>>Okay, so this is a metamorphic library chair.

So what you would do with something like this, it'll have a latch, there we go, and you bring it forward.

And so you would have not only a chair in your library, but steps to climb up to the books that you couldn't reach.

>>That's super cool.

We've got three more floors.

>>I'll take a walk and see what the rest looks like.

>>One of the items on the Legacy List is actually for Nick.

Pulling a millstone out of the river.

I didn't know how that was gonna work, but I was really interested to see how it would play out.

>>So what's the best way for me to get...

I see it looks like a pretty high.

>>It's pretty high.

Yeah.

You go down to the river and there's a kayak there, and then you're gonna have to go upstream a bit and then come up the limestone.

>>So it's two lefts?

Kinda like Mount Everest.

It's just two lefts.

This is not something I was expecting, but why not?

It's kind of an adventure and let's go and see if we can find this millstone.

Look at this.

Gorgeous.

I feel like Jacques Cousteau pulling through the Amazon looking for a stone table.

>>What's this chain for?

>>Well, I got the millstone hooked up.

>>You did?

>>Yeah.

Spent all day yesterday hooking it up.

>>This is super cool.

>>Normally Matt is the one messing with us.

I think we're gonna use this as an opportunity to mess with him.

>>Okay.

>>There's Ollie.

>>Hey, Matt!

>>What's up, dudes?

>>How's it going, Matt?

>>It's a harrowing adventure, man.

>>I think you're almost there.

>>What do you think, Nick?

Is that too far?

>>Back up, back up.

>>Are you guys sure it's over here?

>>Yeah, absolutely.

You let us worry about spotting it, okay?

>>I'm on the shore here.

I don't see it.

>>No, no.

>>You went too far.

Go back.

>>I kind of feel like maybe you guys know where this thing is.

>>Hey, Matt, I think it's right there.

>>I think I'm right at it.

>>Yeah.

That's where.

>>That's where we're trying to get you to go the whole time.

>>You see that vine, or that rope, I guess it is?

>>Yeah.

>>That's tied to it.

>>That's tied to it!

I feel like Mike might've had some fun with me on this one.

So what do you want me to do here?

Just get out of the way and let you guys pull it up?

>>I guess.

>>That would be great.

>>Fernando, let's go.

Mike, he may not hear me, so I'll talk to you and then you talk to him.

>>Okay.

Got it.

>>Okay!

We got it all hooked up.

We're ready to go, okay?

>>Let's do it.

Here we go.

[Nick] There it is.

>>It's a beauty.

>>It's like a shark coming out of the water, man.

>>Yeah, I think this tractor just blows through everything.

>>Yeah.

Just went right past that rock.

>>What does that next rock look like?

>>Oh, it's gonna pull it right off.

There it is.

It's gorgeous.

I can see why you want it.

>>Yeah.

>>Beautiful.

>>Keep it going!

>>Alright.

That's awesome.

>>I think my job is done.

>>Hey, man, we got it!

>>We did it!

>>True leader knows when to lead and when to follow.

>>What does this moment mean for you?

>>It's quite gratifying.

I love it.

It's been down there for five years about, I think.

Seeing it, it's taunted me, and we did it.

>>This will be one that we talk about for a long time.

>>Okay, good.

>>I think Libby wanted to find this diary.

I think Libby was looking for any type of words of wisdom.

Ida Lee essentially saved the farm, and that's what Libby is wondering if she should do now.

Are you having any luck over there?

>>I wish I was.

In a house that large, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

>>Ooh.

>>This house keeps going and going.

>>It does.

There's a room for every occasion.

I mean, there's so many places that things could be stowed away and hidden and just forgotten about.

There's nooks and crannies.

There's drawers everywhere.

>>Treasure hunt.

>>Look at all these portraits.

I wonder how long they had to sit to be painted like that?

They had to hold that facial expression.

>>Yeah.

>>Ah, the portrait painting.

For hundreds of years, no self-respecting member of society would ever think of not having a painting of a dead relative hanging somewhere in their house.

The more important the relative, the more prominent the placement.

The practice of immortalizing oneself dates back to Ancient Egypt.

Rulers were commonly depicted on stone or clay in a highly stylized way that rarely looked anything like them.

The Greeks and Romans honored their dead with lifelike busts made out of stone.

It wasn't until the Middle Ages that portraits began to take hold.

Rich donors would pay artists to paint their likenesses, usually in frescoes or on paneled blocks of wood.

Portrait painting flourished during the Renaissance.

And it wasn't just nobility.

Everyone was getting in on the act, including a shy acquaintance of Leonardo da Vinci by the name of Lisa.

Da Vinci reportedly worked on his masterpiece for years, which might explain the expression on his subject's face.

By the 18th century, anyone who was anyone had their portrait painted, from members of the Royal Family, to military leaders, and titans of business.

Portraits were realistic and well lit and usually depicted the subject wearing the latest fashion of the day.

Portraits were and still are a symbol of power and immortality.

Every president since George Washington has had their portrait painted, not without controversy.

When Teddy Roosevelt's family said his looked like a mewing cat, he had the painting destroyed and commissioned a new artist.

Herbert Hoover's portrait was completed 23 years after he left office.

John Kennedy's after he was assassinated.

But thanks to the power of portrait painting, immortality is just a brush stroke away.

>>All right, Lex, why are we back here?

>>We are back here, as you suggested, for me to walk around and look closer at everything.

I wanted to know the origins where it comes from, and most of the time when we are doing attributions of region, we're basing it on the woods.

Not woods like the mahogany or walnut that are used on the exterior, but what's on the interiors, called the secondary woods.

And initially I took a look at these drawers and I looked at the woods, and I was vacillating between a couple of woods, and it turns out it's cypress, which means North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia.

Kind of exciting.

Furniture of this type of the southern states is fairly rare.

So I took the piece apart even more, and on the top of this secretary part, it says Isaac Coleman made and sold August 25th of 1809.

>>This is 210 years old?

>>Yeah.

210 years old.

Between the intricate inlay and the marquetry shell, there's some burl inlay.

It's a great piece of North Carolina furniture.

>>So obviously they're not gonna sell the furniture, but if they were trying to sell it, what would this go for?

>>So I talked to some colleagues, and, conservatively, I think a 30 to $50,000 estimate would be appropriate.

If it went to auction, it could do very well.

>>We've given Libby and Nick a headstart.

We got the attic cleaned out.

We got some of the basement cleaned out.

Finally, we're gonna get to sit down and go through the Legacy List.

[Matt] Normally we're here to clean the house out, and we didn't do that this week.

So the last couple of days, we did declutter some rooms in the attic and we cleaned out some of the rooms in the basement.

>>That's great, yeah.

Get me started.

>>A little bit.

You physically carry this weight on you on a daily basis.

>>Yeah.

>>It's so obvious.

>>Yeah.

It's kind of like... Well, we always joke that we don't own Rockland, Rockland owns us.

>>And it does.

I've seen that.

>>Just all encompassing.

>>Nick is able to enjoy this place.

>>True.

I do.

>>Nick could have fun in a cardboard box.

I've learned that.

>>That's true.

>>But I feel the weight for you.

And the hardest part about downsizing, to me, it's the fear.

If I stay, what do I miss?

If I go, what do I miss?

We're gonna go through the Legacy List, and my hopes is that we can just plant that seed and help you kinda figure out where you're gonna go next.

So the first item on the Legacy List was the wedding dress.

>>Right.

Whoa.

Whoa.

>>I find wedding dresses every day.

>>Really?

>>And almost everybody.

But this one's a little special because of how big a deal weddings have been on this property.

>>Absolutely.

Yeah.

>>I love that.

>>Yeah, I do too.

This is my great grandmother's on my father's mother's side.

So her favorite flower was the black-eyed Susan and these embroidered flowers are, I think it's supposed to represent the black-eyed Susan.

>>Well, it's gorgeous.

>>Look at the Victorian neck line.

Wow.

>>How does it make you feel?

There's no wrong answer.

>>Special.

It's like a thing that I've been wondering where it was and it's so great to have it back.

Now I wanna display it.

>>This next item was really cool for me.

It is absolutely an awesome time capsule.

A time capsule's supposed give you a look back in time.

It wasn't the 1800s.

It was 1993.

Avi and I both actually graduated from high school in 1993, so we got to go through this time capsule.

Man.

There were VHS tapes.

>>Oh, yeah.

Interesting.

>>There were lots of different things.

The thing I loved the most was the Sears catalog.

By the way, intricately detailed.

Everything is labeled.

Everything is wrapped in saran wrap or protective plastic.

There's even a catalog of every item that is in here.

Although, it's not that long ago, a lot has changed.

>>Yeah.

>>If the goal was to set out with his grandson to do a project that gave us a glimpse back in time, they absolutely achieved it.

>>That's great.

That's amazing.

>>When I came to visit, the first time I walked in this house, first thing I saw was that beautiful painting on the stairwell.

Possibly Inness.

>>Right.

>>I had to bring in one of my top experts.

Lex came in.

He was drawn so quickly to that Inness.

He's like, I know what that is.

>>Really?

>>Yeah?

>>He knew.

He said it's gotta be.

And it wasn't, by the way, I thought the rainbow would be the reason.

>>Yeah.

>>It's not.

It's the specific brush strokes.

>>Oh, interesting.

Wow.

>>He said that's an Inness and it's probably not signed.

He said the typical brush strokes that are on that was later in his career.

He was a very prolific painter.

So by the end, he stopped signing them.

>>Oh, okay.

>>He would like to get it off the frame, but we were at about 99% that that's an Inness.

>>Wow.

>>And it's a really, really nice painting.

>>I almost didn't wanna show it to you because I was afraid you were gonna say it's not an Inness.

>>He said he'd be shocked if it wasn't.

>>Really?

That's exciting for me.

>>Wow.

>>He's one of my favorites.

>>Yeah.

You love the Hudson River painters.

>>Well, yeah.

>>But that's a beautiful piece, and I think that's came from the ancestors, correct?

>>Yes, yes.

Yes, absolutely.

That was here.

>>It's always been here.

[Nick] It was up in the attic.

>>You knew it was in the attic.

So beautiful piece.

As much grief as I've given you for this being a museum, it kinda is.

>>Yeah.

>>You got stuff that needs to be in museums in this house, which is really, really awesome.

[Matt] I wanna go to my last Legacy List item, which is, I think, your hero, Ida Lee Rust.

>>Yes.

>>She's kind of the hero of this property.

>>Yeah.

>>She saved it.

>>She did.

She got it out of debt.

>>She did as a single mom, right?

>>Single mom.

Yeah.

She educated all 14 children.

>>All right, here is a picture that we found of Ida Lee.

>>Wow.

Wow.

>>And then here is a picture of Ida with her family, with all of her kids.

>>Oh, yeah.

And that's all the kids?

>>That's a lot of the kids.

>>Or at least some of them >>It's a full batch.

>>We gotta frame these.

I mean, that's great.

>>I loved your connection to Ida.

You're kind of in the Ida Lee situation, not as bad as death and a war, but are you gonna save the place or not?

>>Well, that's what I keep praying to all my ancestors her is a big one of them, saying help me out here.

>>I get why we're looking for words of wisdom from Ida Lee.

>>Yeah.

>>Okay.

[Matt] I wasn't able to find those words of wisdom, but I was able to find some words of wisdom.

Here is a letter from a cousin on the Lee side of your family.

I want you to read this sentence right here for me.

>>I do not like to take the responsibility of urging an immediate sale of Rockland, and yet I do not see what else can be done.

The estate is getting deeper and deeper in debt.

Now the interest, taxes, and insurance takes all the place can make, so there's nothing left for the family but to borrow more money to live on.

This cannot go on very long, you know.

>>What's the date on that?

>>1889.

December, 1889.

>>So 1889, someone is really having the same discussion that you're having right now.

I covered up the date on this letter because I wanted Libby to see that the ancestors that she admires so much had the exact same struggles that she has today.

It's not Ida Lee's words.

That's well after Ida Lee.

>>Yeah.

>>But this is a hard thing to do.

This burden you're carrying, it's not just yours.

It's been going on a long time.

I think this place is amazing and it's changed me in the few short days I was here.

>>Maybe with my girls here, I thought, well, maybe there's ways that we could have Rockland be some type of place for discussion with different people and educate and eliminate divisiveness.

>>You are downsizing, you're still at the beginning of it, which is absolutely the hardest part.

Deciding what to do and deciding where to go.

Sometimes people decide to stay.

I mean, you could still have a long happy life here, but you need help to do it.

>>Absolutely.

>>And if that's the choice that was made in your downsizing process, then awesome.

And you might also decide in two years, you know what, we're leaving.

And that's okay too.

Well, we hope we helped a little bit.

>>You did.

>>And when you do wanna clean out the rest of the room, give us a call.

I got a lot of friends that can help you.

We'll do episode five of season five.

>>[Female Announcer] Support for Legacy List comes from MakeSpace.

MakeSpace picks up, stores and return your items on demand.

Available for home or business.

MakeSpace provides professional movers, plus bins, blankets and a digital photo inventory.

You can find us at makespace.com.

And by ensure long-term care where we believe aging at home near friends and family is ever more possible for more people.

Learn more at insureltc.com.

AARP Virginia offering family caregiving support with prepare to care and down sizing and decluttering on line workshops designed to help organize and assess family needs Find the complete online workshop schedule At AARP.org/virtual VA The Ruth Camp Campbell Foundation (bright theme music) >>Visit my MyLegacyList.com to learn more about this show and the tips, tools, and resources to help you or a loved one with big life transitions like this one.

That's www.MyLegacyList.com.

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