>>> NOW RUSSIAN POLITICS AND THE PRICE FOR THOSE THAT DARE IN APRIL, 2022, SOON AFTER RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE, THE OPPOSITION LEADER, VLADIMIR CARDOZO WAS ONE OF MANY CITIZENS ARRESTED OF SPEAKING OUT.

BY CHANCE HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO AN INTERVIEW WITH OUR CALLER, WALTER ISAACSON.

HE FOUND HIMSELF AFTER BARS.

HE WAS RELEASED AFTER MORE THAN TWO YEARS IN A PRISONER SWAP WHICH INCLUDED THE AMERICAN JOURNALIST EVAN GERSHKOVICH.

A VERY UNIQUE EXCUSE HE HAD FOR MISSING OUT ON HIS LAST INTERVIEW.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> VERY GOOD TO BE ON YOUR PROGRAM.

I'M SORRY I MISSED OUR APPOINTMENT LAST TIME IN 2022 BUT I'M GLAD I WAS ABLE TO MAKE IT.

>> AND I JUST SAID WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW BUT APRIL, 2022, I WAS SITTING HERE WAITING FOR YOU AND YOU WERE ABOUT TO COME ON THE SHOW AND THEN YOU DIDN'T.

TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

>> WELL, I WAS COMING HOME TO MY MOSCOW APARTMENT FROM A MEETING.

I WAS DRIVING.

INTERVIEW I HAD SCHEDULED WITH YOU, SUPPOSED TO DO THIS FROM MY APARTMENT IN MOSCOW.

AS I WAS APPROACHING MY HOUSE, I SAW A BRIDGE.

I NOTICED A SURVEILLANCE CAR FOLLOWING ME IN MY REARVIEW MIRROR .

DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A RUSSIAN POLITICIAN IN THE ERA OF THE VLADIMIR PUTIN, THAT IS NOT A SURPRISE, YOU GET IT ALL THE TIME.

SO OKAY, ONE SURVEILLANCE CAR.

BUT AS I WAS APPROACHING MY HOUSE , MY APARTMENT BLOCKS , I NOTICED A SILVER MINIVAN STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO THE ENTRANCE.

AGAIN, DIDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION BECAUSE I LIVE IN DOWNTOWN MOSCOW.

IT IS ALWAYS BUSY WITH CARS AROUND.

AS I STOPPED TO PRESS THE BUTTON TO OPEN THE GATE TO GO AND PARK IN MY COURTYARD, I SAW OF MY CAR, 506 POLICE OFFICERS .

BLACK UNIFORMS.

WHO GOT OUT OF THE MINIVAN AND STARTED RUNNING BEHIND MY CAR.

SO OF COURSE AT THAT MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD EVERYTHING SO I JUST IN TIME TO PARK MY CAR AND TEXT I WAS BEING ARRESTED.

IN THAT MOMENT, THE COMMANDING POLICE OFFICER TOLD ME TO COME FOLLOW THEM.

I SAW THE PHONE RINGING I GUESS FROM THE PRODUCERS, AS WELL.

THEY WERE DRIVING ME TO THE POLICE STATION.

THEY SEIZED MY PHONE SO I WAS NO LONGER ALLOWED TO USE IT.

SO I FELT VERY BAD BECAUSE IT WAS AN IMPOLITE WAY TO NOT TURN UP TO OUR SCHEDULED INTERVIEW BUT I HAVE HAD SOME CIRCUMSTANCES FEEL OUT OF CONTROL SO I HOPE YOU WILL FORGIVE ME FOR THAT.

>> THE BEST EXCUSE WE HAVE EVER HEARD.

BUT YOU HAD BEEN, I THINK, POISONED TWICE , ALLEGEDLY THEY TRIED TO POISON YOU TWICE.

AND YET YOU STILL WENT BACK TO MOSCOW TO FIGHT AGAINST , PROTEST AGAINST THE INVASION OF UKRAINE.

WHY DID YOU FEEL THE NEED TO GO BACK?

>> WELL, I AM A RUSSIAN POLITICIAN.

RUSSIA IS MY COUNTRY.

A POLITICIAN HAS TO BE BEHELD TO THE CITIZENS OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

WHAT MORAL RIGHT WHAT I HAVE TO CALL FOR MY FELLOW RUSSIAN CITIZENS TO STAND UP AND RESIST PUTIN'S DICTATORSHIP IF I DIDN'T DO IT MYSELF?

SO THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION IN MY MIND AS TO LEAVING RUSSIA.

TO ME THIS IS A RESPONSIBILITY THAT TRANSCENDS ANY CONSIDERATIONS OF PERSONAL SAFETY AND PERSONAL COMFORT.

IF I AM CALLING ON MY FELLOW RUSSIAN CITIZENS TO ADD TO THIS DICTATORSHIP I HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO IT MYSELF.

>> IN ADDITION TO PROTESTING THE RUSSIAN INVASION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GOT YOU IN TROUBLE WITH THE PUTIN REGIME IN RUSSIA IS THAT YOU COME ALONG WITH BILL BROWDER, OUR FRIEND AND THE LATE SENATOR JOHN McCAIN HELPED PUSH THE ACT BOTH IN THE UNITED STATES AND THEN SOME OF THE SANCTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

WHEN WHAT THAT WAS AND WHAT IT HAS DONE.

>> THE ACT WAS AN ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT REVOLUTION LEGISLATION.

WAS FIRST INTRODUCED IN THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS BACK IN 2010.

BY SENATOR JEN CARDONE, DEMOCRAT FROM MARYLAND.

CHAIR OF THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE.

REPUBLICAN OF ARIZONA WHO IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL AND PROMINENT VOICES ON CAPITOL HILL FOR DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS.

AND PUT FORWARD A VERY SIMPLE PREMISE .

THOSE PEOPLE, THOSE WHO GET A CHANCE WHO ARE KNOWN BASED ON EVIDENCE, NEEDLESS TO SAY , TO BE PERSONALLY IMPLICATED IN HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS OR CORRUPTION WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO GET AMERICAN VISAS OR AMERICAN ASSETS AND USE THE FINANCIAL BAKING SYSTEM OF THE UNITED STATES.

SOUNDS VERY SIMPLE TODAY BUT AT THE TIME IT WAS A REVOLUTIONARY CONCEPT BECAUSE BEFORE IN PREVIOUS ERAS , SANCTIONS WERE IMPOSED GENERALLY, ON EVERYBODY, ON WHOLE COUNTRIES BUT THE RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD BE INDIVIDUAL.

IT SHOULD BE ASSIGNED TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE AND I HAD THE HONOR AND PRIVILEGE TO WORK ALONGSIDE FIRST OF ALL, MY FRIEND, MY MENTOR, THE LEADER OF THE RUSSIAN DEMOCRATIC OPPOSITION.

AND ADVOCATING FOR THIS LAW, COMMENCING THE AMERICAN CONGRESS TO PASS THIS LAW.

I SHOULD ADD SIGNIFICANT RESISTANCE FROM THE THEN U.S. ADMINISTRATION.

THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OF THE TIME.

A RECENT POLICY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN SO THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS LEGISLATION.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, BOTH U.S. CONGRESS ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS PAST THIS LEGISLATION OVERWHELMINGLY.

AND I CONTINUE THIS WORK AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT TODAY, THERE ARE LAWS ON THE BOOKS AND 35 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT INCLUDES THE UNITED STATES, CANADA, GREAT BRITAIN, AUSTRALIA, ALL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND MANY OTHER PLACES.

THIS IS A VERY CERTAIN STATEMENT FROM DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.

TO PRIDE THEMSELVES ON ADHERING TO SUCH NOTIONS AS RULE OF LAW, DEMOCRACY AND RESPECT TO HUMAN RIGHTS.

PEOPLE WHO ARE VIOLATING THOSE LAWSUITS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME.

BUT OF COURSE YOU CAN GUESS WHAT THE ATTITUDE OF THE KREMLIN REGIME WAS BECAUSE THIS LEGISLATION, THEY LOST THEIR COVETED ASSETS TO THE DEMOCRATIC WEST.

SO THESE TWO POISONINGS THAT WERE ORGANIZED AGAINST ME BY 2016 AND 2017, THAT WAS RESPONSE TO THE MAGNITSKY ACT.

AGAIN, WHEN I WAS TRIED IN MOSCOW CITY COURT FOR MY PUBLIC OPPOSITION TO THE PUTIN REGIME AND THE WAR IN UKRAINE, THE JUDGE WHO HANDED ME MY 25 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE , SO-CALLED HIGH TREASON, WAS THE VERY SAME JUDGE, HIS NAME IS SERGEI, WHO JAILED BACK IN 2008.

THE SAME JUDGE WHO WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BE SANCTIONED BY THE UNITED STATES MAGNITSKY ACT, FOR WHICH I APPLIQUED IT.

SO THE KREMLIN DELIBERATELY, VERY DEMONSTRABLY APPOINTED THAT SAME JUDGE TO TRY ME AND TO CONVICT ME AND TO HAND ME MY 25 YEAR PRISON SENTENCE JUST TO MAKE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR AND OBVIOUS.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

TO ME THIS IS VERY CLEAR PROOF OF JUST HOW EFFECTIVE THE MAGNITSKY ACT IS AND JUST HOW FEARFUL THESE CROOKS AND MURDERERS AND HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES ARE OF THIS LEGISLATION.

I WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY ONCE AGAIN TO THANK THOSE LEADERS AND THE AMERICAN VOTERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHO WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN GETTING THAT LEGISLATION PASSED.

>> YOU SAID THAT THE MAGNITSKY ACT WHICH SANCTIONS INDIVIDUALS HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE.

WE HAVE ALSO PUT WHAT WE HAVE SAID WILL BE CRIPPLING SANCTIONS ON THE RUSSIAN AM NOT SURE THAT SANCTIONS HAVE DONE ALL THAT MUCH.

THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY SEEMS TO BE OKAY.

EXPLAIN TO ME WHY HAVE SANCTIONS NOT WORKED BETTER OVERALL?

>> THE SANCTIONS MECHANISMS OPPOSED ON PUTIN'S RUSSIA SINCE THE START OF THE FULL-SCALE WAR IN UKRAINE ARE NOT WORKING EFFECTIVELY AND THEY ARE NOT WORKING EFFECTIVELY FOR TWO VERY DIFFERENT REASONS.

I WILL BE OUT OF PRISON FOR THREE MONTHS AFTER THE PRESUMED ON AUGUST FIRST.

AND DURING ALL THIS TIME CATCHING UP ON 2 1/2 YEARS WORTH OF REALLY READING AND YEARNING AND SORT OF LISTENING TO ANY NEW THINGS AND ONE OF THE MAIN AREAS I HAVE BEEN SORT OF EDUCATING MYSELF IN THE WAY THAT ALL THESE NEW SANCTIONS HAVE BEEN IMPOSED IN THE WAY THEY ARE OPERATING SINCE FEBRUARY OF 2002 SINCE THE OCCUPATION OF UKRAINE.

AND THERE ARE TWO NATURE PROBLEMS OVER THESE SANCTIONS THE FIRST PROBLEM IS THE FACT , THAT IS THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THERE ARE MANY GLARING HOLES IN THESE SANCTIONS MECHANISMS THAT ALLOW THE PUTIN REGIME TO GO AROUND IT.

IT IS A SHOCKING FACT THAT TO THIS DAY , ALMOST THREE YEARS INTO THE FULL-SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE, UP TO 30% OF THE MILITARY EQUIPMENT AND MILITARY TECHNOLOGIES USED BY THE RUSSIAN ARMY AGAINST UKRAINE STILL COME FROM WESTERN ALLIED FORCES .

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

THE FACT IS THAT THE RUSSIAN MISSILE HIT A CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL IN KYIV ON JULY, EIGHTH OF JULY THIS YEAR, CONTAINS SEVERAL WESTERN PRODUCED MICROCHIPS, INCLUDING U.S.

PRODUCED MICROCHIPS.

>> EXPLAINED TO ME WHY THAT IS POSSIBLE, THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

>> TO ME IT SPEAKS TO THE FACT TO ENFORCE EXPORT CONTROLS, TO ENFORCE ALL THESE COMPLIANT RULES.

THEY ALL EXIST, THEY ARE ALL BUT WE SEE THAT THERE ARE STILL GLARING HOLES IN THESE SANCTIONS.

MECHANISMS THAT BY THE WAY, THESE GENERAL MEASURES BUT ALSO PERSONAL TARGETED SANCTIONS WHICH HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE MAGNITSKY ACT, UP UNTIL WE RECENTLY FELT WIFE OF PUTIN'S MINISTER OF DEFENSE WAS STILL LIVING IN HER APARTMENT IN PARIS.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

SO WE SEE THAT THERE IS STILL TOO MANY HOLES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED IN THE SANCTIONS MECHANISM.

THEY'RE NOT EFFECTIVE ENOUGH AND REALLY PUSHING AGAINST PUTIN'S WAR MACHINE.

AGAINST PUTIN'S WAR ECONOMY .

BECAUSE TO ME THE GOAL THE SANCTIONS TO BE MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT AND AN IDEAL, IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE PUTIN REGIME TO CONTINUE CONDUCTING THIS WAR .2 THE REST OF THE WORLD WHICH WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO LINE UP AGAINST RUSSIA, MEANING INDIA, CHINA, IRAN .

IS THERE SOME OTHER MECHANISM THAT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN SANCTIONS?

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THE PUTIN REGIME CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO EMERGE VICTORIOUS FROM THIS CRIMINAL WAR OF AGGRESSION THAT INITIATED.

CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO EMERGE VICTORIOUS.

THIS WAR HAS TO END IN A WAY THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO UKRAINE.

THAT IS NOT HUMILIATING FOR UKRAINE.

IN WHICH UKRAINE EMERGES WITH GUARANTEES AND STATUSES AS SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT AND DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY.

I UNDERSTAND THE FATIGUE.

THIS WAR HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS.

I UNDERSTAND THE FATIGUE BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE ADVOCATING FOR SOME SORT OF A SHORT-TERM DEAL WITH UKRAINE.

THEY ARE ADVOCATING FOR PEACE, JUST PUSH THE PROGRAM DOWN THE LINE AND IN FACT, WE HAVE THE APPEASEMENT ONLY MAKES THE AGGRESSOR MORE AGGRESSIVE.

AND SO CONTINUING TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND RESISTING THESE CALLS TO CUT DEALS WITH PUTIN IS VERY IMPORTANT.

NUMBER TWO IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE WEST , DEMOCRATIC NATIONS OF THE WORLD TO CONTINUE SPEAKING , MESSAGING, COMMUNICATING WITH RUSSIAN SOCIETY.

BECAUSE AGAIN, NOT ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT PUTIN AND THE WAR.

THERE ARE MANY WHO DON'T.

AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THOSE PRO-DEMOCRACY AND ANTIWAR RUSSIANS ARE SEEN BY THE WESTERN WAR WORLD AS ALLIES IN THE STRUGGLE.

PROPAGANDA IS TRYING TO PRESENT, THIS IS NOT A BETWEEN THE CONNECTIVE WEST, AS THEY SAY, AND RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

NOT AT ALL, THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN CIVILIZATION AND BARBARISM THIS IS A WAR BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND TYRANNY AND MANY RUSSIANS ARE ALLIES OF US IN THIS WAR.

AND THE SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD AND THIS SHOULD BE EDUCATED BY THE WESTERN WORLD.

THERE HAVE TO BE WAYS TO MESSAGE FOR FREE WORLD MESSAGE AND COMMUNICATE FOR THE PEOPLE OF RUSSIA, TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT THIS WAR IS NOT FOR THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE.

THE PUTIN DICTATORSHIP AND THAT THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR A DIFFERENT CHANGE , DEMOCRATIC RUSSIA AND INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU, I'M SURE YOU HAVE CONTACTED PEOPLE IN RUSSIA.

SO WHAT EXTENT IS THERE AND IS IT BIG ENOUGH THAT IT'S GOING TO HAVE ANY IMPACT?

>> THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN RUSSIA WHO OPPOSE HIS REGIME AND THIS WAR.

I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU PERCENTAGE NUMBERS BECAUSE IN A TOTALITARIAN DICTATORSHIP IT IS MEANINGLESS TO TALK ABOUT , IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO JUDGE THE TRUE STATE OF PUBLIC OPINION IN THE COUNTRY THAT IMPRISONED YOU FOR EXPRESSING IT.

WHAT IS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO ME IS THAT SOMETIMES FROM TIME TO TIME WE GET WHAT I WOULD CALL GLIMPSES OF THE REALITY.

GLIMPSES INTO HOW MANY RUSSIANS ACTUALLY FEEL ABOUT PUTIN AND ABOUT THIS WAR.

ONE OF THESE GLIMPSES CAME IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR WHEN, YOU KNOW, AMID THE STAGED START OF OUR SO-CALLED PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHEN IT WAS PUTIN AND A COUPLE OF HAND PICKED CLOWNS ON THE BALLOT, THERE WAS ONE CANDIDATE, A LAWYER BY THE NAME OF BORIS WHO NOW SAID HE WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA ON AN ANTIWAR PLATFORM.

YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE THE PUBLIC RESPONSE.

WAS UNIMAGINABLE.

SUDDENLY ALL OVER RUSSIA IN LARGE CITIES AND SMALL TOWNS, THERE WERE THESE LONG LINES, HOURS LONG LINES FORMED OF PEOPLE GOING TO SIGN PETITIONS .

BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY COLLECT A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

NOMINATING PETITIONS TO GET THIS ANTIWAR CANDIDATE ON THE BALLOT AND MOST OF THOSE WERE ABOUT THOSE LINES AND HOW IMPORTANT PEOPLE TO REALIZE THAT THE PUTIN TROPICANA TRIES TO CREATE THIS IMAGE THAT THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY IS A MONOLITH.

ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT PUTIN, ALL RUSSIANS SUPPORT THE WAR AND OF COURSE THAT IS A LIE AND PEOPLE KNOW THIS IS A LIVE.

BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SEE VISIBLY BECAUSE THESE LONG LINES OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN RIG ELECTION RESULTS BUT YOU CANNOT RIG THESE PHOTOS OF THESE LONG LONG LINES OF PEOPLE AND I REMEMBER, NEEDLESS TO SAY THAT CANDIDATE WAS NOT ALLOWED ON THE BALLOT.

PEOPLE TO SEE THAT THEY ARE NOT ALONE.

THIS WAS THE MAIN POINT OF THIS.

I WILL NEVER FORGET THE LETTER I RECEIVED FROM A YOUNG WOMAN IN THE BLACK SEA TOWN SOUTH OF RUSSIA AND SHE DESCRIBED HOW SHE WAITED IN THE LINE OF LIKE- MINDED PEOPLE AND YOUNG PEOPLE FOR TWO OR THREE HOURS TO PETITION FOR THE ANTIWAR CANDIDATE AND AT THE END OF THE LETTER SHE WROTE I HAVE NEVER REALIZED HOW ANY OF US THERE ARE.

I WANT THE FREE WORLD, I WANT THE WEST TO SEE AND HEAR THAT RUSSIA, NOT THE RUSSIA OF MURDERERS AND WAR CRIMINALS SITTING IN THE KREMLIN BUT THE RUSSIA OF GOOD, DECENT, KINDHEARTED PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS DICTATORSHIP, WHO OPPOSE THIS WAR BECAUSE WE ARE RUSSIANS, TOO AND THERE AREN'T MANY OF US.

>> WE OFTEN THINK THAT AUTHORITARIANS COME TO POWER THROUGH FORCE .

BUT A LOT OF TIMES, INCLUDING TO SOME EXTENT IN RUSSIA, IT HAPPENS TO DEMOCRACY AND WE ARE KIND OF SEEING AROUND THE WORLD PERHAPS SOME YEARNING FOR STRONGER LEADERS FOR NATIONALISM.

WE LOOK AT THE SUPPORT FOR ORBAN IN HUNGARY AND OTHER PLACES.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO DEMOCRACY?

>> WELL, THERE ARE ALWAYS THESE WEIGHTS, RIGHT?

THESE WAVES, THE PENDULUM, BACK AND FORTH.

BUT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE AND THE BIG PICTURE WILL TELL US NOT AT ALL.

THAT WHATEVER THE SHORT-TERM CHALLENGE IS OR PROBLEMS, NOT EVEN THREATS , THAT THE WORLD AS A WHOLE MAY ENCOUNTER.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THE GENERAL DIRECTION IS ALWAYS TOWARDS PRO-DEMOCRACY.

IF WE LOOK AT THE MAP OF EUROPE, LET'S SAY 35 YEARS AGO, THAT IS NOTHING BY HISTORICAL STATUS.

WE WILL SEE THAT HALF OF THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT WAS SOME SORT OF AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES.

TODAY, YOU WILL PROBABLY SEE TWO DICTATORSHIPS LEFT.

THAT IS RUSSIA AND BELARUS.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT WE WILL HAVE A STABLE FUTURE WHEN EUROPE IS DICTATORSHIP FREE.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THESE CHALLENGES.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY THIS IS NOT SERIOUS, IT IS.

AND IT IS VERY WORRYING TO SEE THESE TRENDS IN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.

I THINK JUST A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, THERE WAS A SERIES OF REGIONAL ELECTIONS IN GERMANY, FOR EXAMPLE .

BUT WERE WON , AT LEAST WITH SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS WAS ACHIEVED BY FAR RIGHT PARTIES.

STILL SIGNIFICANT SUCCESS.

AND THESE ARE WORRYING TRENDS THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD THINK ABOUT.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT NOT TO A SIGN OF THAT OF THE BIG PICTURE.

THE BIG PICTURE BELONGS TO FREEDOM.

THE FUTURE LONGS TO DEMOCRACY.

OPPRESSIVE REGIMES.

ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE IN RUSSIA TODAY WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN AND I HAVE NO DOUBT IN THE VERY FORESEEABLE FUTURE WE WILL SEE THE DEMISE.

>> VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA , THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, THE ENTERTAINMENT LAW AS APPLIED TO ONE OF ITS GREATEST.

QUINCY JONES HAS DIED AT THE AGE OF 91.

HIS CAREER SPANNING SEVEN DECADES KNOWN AS A COMPOSER, CONDUCTOR, AND THE PRODUCER OF SOME OF THE WORLD'S TOP-SELLING ALBUMS LIKE MICHAEL JACKSON'S THRILLER.

>> HE WORKED WITH JUST ABOUT EVERYONE FROM FRANK SINATRA TO DOMINATED THE MUSIC INDUSTRY FOR DECADES.

IN 1985 HE CALLED ON MICHAEL JACKSON, LIONEL RICHIE, AND A HOST OF OTHER STARS FOR A CHARITY SINGLE, WE ARE THE WORLD WHILE SUCCESSFULLY READING IN THE EGOS OF SOME OF THE BIGGEST SINGERS OF ALL TIME FOR THE COURSE OF AFRICAN FAMINE RELIEF.

AND WE WANT TO LEAVE YOU NOW WITH THAT SONG, PRODUCED AND CONDUCTED BY THE ONE AND ONLY QUINCY JONES.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

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THANK YOU.