GEOFF BENNETT: Finally tonight, we have an excerpt from Judy Woodruff's podcast, "In Pursuit of Happiness," this one on conspiracy theories.

They may seem like a modern phenomenon, but they have been part of America's story since the nation's founding.

Here, Judy speaks with journalist and author Jesse Walker about the surprising role that conspiracy thinking played during the American Revolution.

JUDY WOODRUFF: There were real conspiracies.

There were real conspiracies around trying to get rid of George Washington.

JESSE WALKER, Author, "The United States of Paranoia: A Conspiracy Theory": For that matter.

I mean, if you're having a revolution, you're engaged in conspiracy right there.

So -- but at the same time, I mean, the Declaration of Independence, everyone remembers the sort of bill of particulars, all the reasons they're revolting.

They call it the train of abuses and usurpations.

What people often forget, or maybe it's just sort of washed over them when they read it in school, is that the Declaration also calls these abuses a design.

And they say the purpose of that design is to bring us under absolute despotism.

I mean, the founding fathers were in many cases driven by a conspiratorial vision of what Great Britain was up to, the idea not just that they were taking away Americans' liberty and self-government, but that they were aiming to impose tyranny and maybe ultimately to impose it on England.

JUDY WOODRUFF: But are you saying that's what the founders, some of the founders believed?

JESSE WALKER: Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: That they were going to be enslaved?

JESSE WALKER: Yes.

I mean, there's the letter George Washington wrote where he says actually enslaved like the Blacks that we hold with the power over today.

I don't remember the exact phrase.

So, yes, and it's -- Gordon Wood, who just passed away, the great historian of the American Revolution, had a great article in the early 1980s where he talked about the sort of -- the sort of approach to evidence in that era.

And in general, there was an idea that you could infer people's intentions -- infer people's intentions by what they did.

So there is a passage in Jefferson, future President Thomas Jefferson, where he says -- this is not a direct quote, this is me paraphrasing -- if it was just one encroachment on our freedoms, that could just be an accident, but when it happens again and again through multiple governments, that to means that there's a plot against us.

JUDY WOODRUFF: So, who was behind the stirring it up and making it bigger than it was.

I mean, I read a little bit about Samuel Adams and his role in all this.

Was there... JESSE WALKER: Oh.

Well, I mean, that's actually -- there's also British conspiracy theories about who was stirring up the Americans.

I mean, long before there was an alliance between the American revolutionaries and the French, there were people, loyalists who were convinced that there was basically outside agitators from France who were stirring up the rebellion, and no real American actually wanted to revolt.

So that's -- that also was part of the picture too.

JUDY WOODRUFF: I mean, you have gone so far as to say that conspiracy theories, I mean, starting at the beginning, have become woven into our history, into our lives.

I mean, that sounds -- I mean, to some of us, that sounds like a pretty bold declaration.

Do you believe that?

JESSE WALKER: Yes, yes, yes.

I write what I believe.

JESSE WALKER: There's -- I mean, and I don't think that's just true of America, by the way.

My book is a history of American conspiracy theories, but I think it's human -- all human beings have the capacity to -- we are a pattern-seeking, storytelling creature.

We're always trying to connect the dots to figure out what we can't see.

And there's tons we can't see.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Do you -- I mean, do you make a distinction between what were the real conspiracies that were taking place and the theories?

JESSE WALKER: Oh, sure.

We were talking earlier about the founding fathers and their sort of fears that there was a sort of plot to bring America, the colonies, under absolute despotism.

I don't think any plot like that existed.

I think that the English were improvising, the same as anyone else.

But, at the same time, there really were these restrictions on people's liberties and self-government.

There were good reasons for the American revolution to happen.

It's just this is the sort of more apocalyptic version of the story is the one that often gets told in these pamphlets with lots of capital letters and so on.

So... GEOFF BENNETT: You can watch that full episode and more from the "In Pursuit of Happiness" podcast on our YouTube page or wherever you get your podcasts.