GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff# Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is on assignment.

On the "News Hour" tonight:# Hamas agrees to release all## Israeli hostages in response# to President Trump's proposal,## but says more negotiations are# needed on the plan to end the war.

The federal government shutdown threatens an# already strained air traffic control system,## with employees required to work without pay.

NICK DANIELS, President, National Air Traffic# Controllers Association: Every single day that## this goes, it's more stress on their back.

It's.. GEOFF BENNETT: And a public# arts project aims to prevent## the collapse of one of the nation's# natural wonders, the Great Salt Lake.

TREVOR DAHL, Muralist: We start to care# about it.

We start to demand that our## representatives care about it.

They start to# hold industry accountable.

That's the idea.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

Tonight, President Trump is demanding# that Israel end the war in.. time after Hamas announced it had agreed to# Mr.

Trump's proposal to release all Israeli## hostages held in Gaza.

But the militant group# responsible for the deadly October 7 attacks## against Israel nearly two years ago did not# agree to all of the president's framework.

Our Nick Schifrin is here tracking all of this.

So, Nick, what is President# Trump demanding tonight?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, as you said, Geoff, just# in the last hour, the president of the United## States made a dramatic demand of Israel on# TRUTH Social, writing -- quote -- "Israel## must immediately stop the bombing of Gaza, so that# we can get the hostages out safely and quickly."

That is the first time that either# President Biden or President Trump## publicly demanded that Israel stop the war# since October the 7th.

Now, as you said,## the president's demand comes after Hamas' reply# to the framework that President Trump and Prime## Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released# from the White House earlier this week.

So let's take a look at how Hamas replied to# that.

First, Hamas' first point -- quote -- "The## movement announces the agreement to# release all living and dead hostages,## according to the exchange formula# contained in President Trump's proposal."

So, as a reminder, that framework is to release# 20 living hostages and the bodies of 30 deceased## hostages released all up front.

And then you see# the second point right there.

Hamas renews its## agreement to hand over the administration of Gaza# to a Palestinian body of independents technocrats.

Now, I emphasize Palestinian.

We will come# back to that point.

The president is clearly## focused, Geoff, on these two relatively# positive parts of the Hamas statement,## because there's a third part of what Hamas# said, and it is a huge but -- quote -- "The## other issues in the framework are# linked to a comprehensive national## position.

They are to be discussed within a# comprehensive Palestinian national framework."

GEOFF BENNETT: So what does that mean?

NICK SCHIFRIN: It means that Hamas is# not agreeing t.. Regional officials have been telling# me for days that Hamas is not agreeing## to demilitarize.

And you see video of Hamas# from earlier this year during a cease-fire.

Hamas will not demilitarize until it talks# to the other Palestinian militant groups.## And that is not a guarantee that# it's going to agree.

and of course,## that is a key, a key demand that Israel is making.

Secondly, regional officials also told me# that Hamas had questions about the map,## you see it right there, where# and exactly when Israeli troops## will withdraw to and when Hamas has to# release the hostages.

Thirdly, tonight,## a political Hamas official says that they will# not allow a non-Palestinian to control Gaza.

And, of course, Geoff, as we talked about, the# president's plan calls for a Board of Peace to## transition power in Gaza with the president# himself and former Prime Minister of Britain## Tony Blair as the head of that board.

So these# are huge questions that Hamas is asking, including## ones that will lead Israel not to be happy# with Hamas' reply, not to accept Hamas' reply.

But President Trump is taking# Hamas' answer as yes and putting## Israel in an extraordinary way to stop the war.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, then the question becomes,# where does all of this leave Netanyahu?

NICK SCHIFRIN: It's a very good question,## and I think one of the two key# questi.. The first one is, how far is President Trump# willing to go to pressure Netanyahu?

White## House officials have told me in the past# that they have -- that he, President Trump,## has not been happy with Netanyahu and that# he did pressure Netanyahu earlier this week## to accept the terms of the deal and he# wants to see this war over full stop.

Will that translate now into President Trump,# for example, saying, hey, we will withhold arms,## for example, to Netanyahu?

Netanyahu, however,# has his own political considerations.

He has to## go to an election within one year.

The# right wing of his coalition certainly## has already criticized this peace proposal# that Netanyahu agreed to earlier this week.

And they will put pressure on Netanyahu to# resist President Trump's plans.

Look, we## have seen pressure privately mostly from Trump on# Netanyahu and his top aides.

And Netanyahu and his## top aides in the past have managed to figure out# a way to persuade Trump more to their perspective.

So certainly they will try to do that once# again this time.

But at the end of the day,## it is up to President Trump how much he# will pressure Netanyahu in this moment## to actually end the war, how much he# will pressure Netanyahu to consider## this Hamas reply good enough,# and then will Netanyahu listen?

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Schifrin,## thank you so much for walking us through#these developments.

We appreciate it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:#After another day of deadlock, the#U.S.

Senate adjourned for the weekend,## extending the government shutdown into next week.# Democrats are holding out for Republicans to make## health care concessions to their spending bill.# But, until lawmakers figure out a way forward,## thousands of federal workers are left worrying# about their paychecks and looming mass layoffs.

Our White House correspondent,# Liz Landers, has more.

LIZ LANDERS: It's day three# of the government shutdown.

MAN: The motion, upon# reconsideration, is not agreed to.

LIZ LANDERS: And no end in sight# after the Senate again failed to## pass a stopgap spending bill and# then left town for the weekend.

REP.

MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): You can# see it's pretty empty around here.

LIZ LANDERS: Speaker Mike Johnson reiterating# the same message he's had for the past few days.## He's willing to discuss health care,# but not under the current circumstances.

REP.

MIKE JOHNSON: The subsidies that they're# saying is the issue is not the issue.

That is## an issue for the end of the year.

December 31# is when that expires.

So Congress has three## months to negotiate that.

Certainly, we could# work on it in the month of October to find## some consensus to figure that out, what reforms# there may be necessary to make all that happen.

LIZ LANDERS: House Minority Leader Hakeem# Jeffries showing no signs of budging.

REP.

HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Donald Trump and# the Republicans are not behaving responsibly.## They're not behaving in a serious manner.# They don't want to reopen the government,## and they certainly do not want to address the# health care crisis that Republicans have created.

LIZ LANDERS: The president, who has not had any# public appearances so far during the shutdown,## instead taking to social media to call Democrats# -- quote -- "the party of hate, evil and Satan."

But his director of the Office of Management and# Budget, usually an under-the-radar role, flexing## his power to continue to target Democrat-voting# cities and states, announcing two infrastructure## projects in Chicago are on hold.

The $2.1 billion# in federal funding for train extensions is paused## to -- quote -- "ensure funding is not# flowing via race-based contracting."

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press# Secretary: Good afternoon, everyone.

LIZ LANDERS: Speaking to reporters today,## White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt# said again mass layoffs are all but .. KAROLINE LEAVITT: The Office of Management# and Budget is in constant communication and## contact right now with our Cabinet secretaries# and agencies across the board to identify,## unfortunately, where layoffs have to be made# and where cuts have to happen.

But, again,## the Democrats have an opportunity to prevent# this if they vote to reopen the government.

LIZ LANDERS: As the week comes to a# close, thousands of government workers## remain off the job, bracing for a# long shutdown without a paycheck.

APRIL GOGGANS, Administration# for Children and Families: We are## essentially paralyzed and without an.. LIZ LANDERS: April Goggans works for an# agency under the Department of Health## and Human Services.

She's also a federal# workers union leader and has hope that her## fellow employees can make it through# the shutdown, however long it lasts.

APRIL GOGGANS: They know that people are scared.# They know that people want to come back, because## they want to work.

They want to do the work that# they're doing, but they also got to feed their## families.

I feel today more solid in my resolve# to not let this -- it's not going to break us.

LIZ LANDERS: For the "PBS# News Hour," I'm Liz Landers.

GEOFF BENNETT: Roughly 750,000 federal employees# were furloughed on Wednesday when the government## closed its doors.

Not included in that# number, the more than 10,000 air traffic## controllers nationwide who will continue to work# without pay as long as the shutdown continues.

And that has raised concerns about the strain# on an already understaffed and overworked cohort## responsible for the safe transit of three# million American air travelers every day.

For more, we're joined by Nick Daniels.

He's# president of the air traffic controllers Union.

Thanks for being here.

NICK DANIELS, President, National A.. me.

I appreciate it.

GEOFF BENNETT: So what kind of stress.. are air traffic controllers under and# how is this shutdown making it worse?

NICK DANIELS: Air traffic controllers are known in# this country of having one of the most demanding## and one of the most high-consequence jobs in the# entire world.

They go to work day in and day out,## and five days is difficult enough.

They go to# work six on most occasions, having to work 60## hours a week, six days in that week, and then# ultimately only having four days off in a month.

And then you add in the uncertainty of# when you're going to get paid again and## a government shutdown on top of it, it's an# unnecessary distraction that shouldn't be## beared by the controllers that are doing# an amazing job for the American people.

GEOFF BENNETT: And few people can afford# to miss a paycheck.

You have warned that## air traffic controllers are having to pick up# second jobs.

I mean, how real a concern is that?

NICK DANIELS: American workers are the# same across.

Air traffic controllers## fall right in that same vein as# all the other American workers.

Most people are young, starting families, and they# don't have that residual income.

Or when you know## your stream of income isn't going to be there,# you have to start making very difficult decisions.

Now, I want to make sure it's completely# understood air traffic controllers are going## to show up and do their job that Americans want# every single day, which is keeping them safe.

But,## yes, when we had a 35-day government shutdown and# you saw that zero dollar paychecks were rolling## in and you needed to think about your family,# taking care of medical bills, making sure that## food was going to be on the table, some did# start having to drive for Uber on the side.

And that's something that Americans have said# we don't want our air traffic controllers## doing a side gig.

We want them doing their# primary job, and that's keeping people safe.

GEOFF BENNETT: Especially if they're# working 60 hours a week already.

NICK DANIELS: Especially if they're working 60# hours a week, because that means they're going## to their primary job in the day and having to pick# up a side job at night and then try to get rest.

And the government spent millions# of dollars to help with fatigue,## to help with unnecessary distractions.# We get regular training on these things,## yet a government shutdown# introduces every single one of them.

GEOFF BENNETT: The FAA says it's going to halt# the field training and the hiring during the## shutdown.

There's an academy in Oklahoma that# will stay open, but using last year's funds.

What's that mean for the# pipeline of new controllers?

NICK DANIELS: Air traffic controllers go# through a rigorous training at Oklahoma## City.

And I do commend Secretary Duffy,# Administrator Bedford.

They have come up## with a way that's never been done in the past to# ensure that Oklahoma City Academy does stay open.

Right now, we're only operating the system with# 10,800 controllers.

This shutdown exacerbates## and showing the issues of being critically# staffed, having unreliable equipment.

But,## ultimately, we have training that# goes on at our facility levels,## that 2,350 people are furloughed that usually help# conduct that training for air traffic controllers.

So, some training will get done.

All# the training won't.

And this example is## why these issues continue to rise in our# career field.

This stop-and-go funding,## government shutdowns, it just keeps putting# us further behind and the issue further out.

GEOFF BENNETT: And beyond the shutdown, we# have seen several safety lapses this past## year.

There was that deadly crash at Reagan# National.

There have been near misses.

There## was a runway collision just the other day# at La Guardia, repeated outages at Newark.

We know the system needs an overhaul, but is# enough being done to actually put fixes in place?

NICK DANIELS: For the first time in my# career, I have seen an actual investment## in air traffic control, $12.5 billion.# It's going to take about a $31 billion## investment to eventually get it done.# But we cannot slow down.

We cannot have## pauses like this that are going to# keep this problem going on longer.

We need the investment now.

We need to keep# the government open.

And that's our call.

So,## open the government, let us do the job# and let us get everybody to work so we## can truly bring the system up to the gold# standard that American people deserve.

GEOFF BENNETT: Can Americans feel safe flying# right now and if this shutdown drags on?

NICK DANIELS: People can feel safe flying,# but that's because of the men and women that## I represent, the air traffic controllers that# are shouldering this burden day in and day out.

They will go to work, they will do the amazing# job, they will move 35,000 flights a day,## three million people, the cargo associated# with it.

And every single day that this goes,## it's more stress on their back, it's an# unnecessary distraction that needs to end.

GEOFF BENNETT: We likely will, though,# see delays and some cancellations?

NICK DANIELS: Delays and cancellations happen# every day on a fragile system that's already## there right now.

And I think the hyper-focus# will be from the media during the shutdown,## and we will get to see, not because# of just the shutdown itself,## how fragile our system really is and# why we need to continue investing in it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Daniels, president of the air# traffic controllers union, thanks for being here.

NICK DANIELS: Absolutely.

Thank you for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT:## We start the day's other headlines# with what the Trump administration## is calling its armed conflict with drug cartels.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says U.S.

forces# destroyed a boat near Venezuela that he says was## trafficking narcotics.

He posted this video on# social media, saying that four narco-terrorists## were killed, but he offered no details on who they# were or if they were affiliated with any group.

In his own social media post, President Trump# said the boat was -- quote -- "loaded with## enough drugs to kill 25,000 to 50,000 people.

"# This is the fourth such strike in the Caribbean## this year and it comes a day after President Trump# declared drug cartels to be unlawful combatants.

Officials in the U.K.

say one of the two men# killed in yesterday's attack on a Manchester## synagogue may have been accidentally shot by# police.

They say preliminary forensic evidence## found the victim's wound was -- quote# -- "consistent with a gunshot injury."

Officers shot and killed the suspect after# he rammed a car into pedestrians outside## the synagogue and then attacked them with# a knife.

Police say he did not have a gun.## Prime Minister Keir Starmer visited# Manchester police headquarters today,## saying the incident would have# been worse without their efforts.

KEIR STARMER, British Prime Minister:# I have been to the scene to pay my## respects and to get a sense of what we# were confronted with.

I have also seen## the body-worn cameras and the footage# out of that.

And I am absolutely clear## in my mind as to the professionalism of# the response, the speed of the response.

GEOFF BENNETT: Today, dozens of people# attended a vigil for those lost in the## attack in the pouring rain.

The suspect has# been identified as a 35-year-old British## citizen of Syrian descent, and the crime# is being investigated as a terror attack.

Also today, the Church of England named Sarah# Mullally to serve as the 106th archbishop of## Canterbury.

The former cancer nurse will be# the first woman to take the role in more than## 1,400 years, leading more than 85 million# Anglicans worldwide.

In a speech today,## she thanked the women who came before her# as path breakers.

She extended a hand to the## global Anglican community and she promised# to confront the church's abuse scandal,## which she said left a legacy# of deep harm and mistrust.

In New York City, a judge sentenced Sean# "Diddy" Combs to four years and two months## in prison this afternoon.

The disgraced hip-hop# mogul was convicted in July on two prostitution## related charges, though he was acquitted on# other charges that could have led to life in## prison.

During sentencing, the judge told# him he would spend -- quote -- "hard time## in prison away from your family, friends and# community, but you will have a life afterward."

Prior to sentencing, Combs had said he# had nobody to blame but himself, calling## his behavior disgusting, shameful and sick.# Before that, he was seen wiping away tears as## his children asked the judge for leniency.

Combs# has already spent more than a year in detention.

Apple has removed an app from its store that# lets users report sightings of U.S.

immigration## agents.

ICEBlock says it has one million users# who anonymously monitor activity by ICE officers.## Apple says the app and others like it# were removed "based on information we## have received from law enforcement about# the safety risks associated with ICEBlock."

Attorney General Pam Bondi claims the app# was designed to -- quote -- "put ICE agents## at risk just for doing their jobs.

"# Even though it's no longer available,## it's still functional for those# who've already downloaded it.

Firefighters in California managed to contain a# massive blaze at a Chevron oil refinery outside## Los Angeles earlier today.

Flames from# the blaze were visible for miles after it## erupted yesterday at the El Segundo refinery.# City officials urged people to stay indoors,## though there have been no reports of injuries# and there's no current threat to public safety.

Nearby residents described feeling# a rumble yesterday before seeing the## flames.

It wasn't immediately# clear what caused the fire.

On Wall Street today, stocks ended mixed# to close out an otherwise strong week.

The## Dow Jones industrial average added# nearly 240 points on the day.

The## Nasdaq slipped around 60 points.# The S&P 500 ended virtually flat.

Still to come on the "News Hour": a preview of# the major cases the U.S.

Supreme Court is set## to take up; David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart# weigh in on the ongoing government shutdown;## and a long-forgotten fruit finds new popularity.

On Monday, the U.S.

Supreme Court begins# a new term following a summerlong recess## shaped by legal battles over the# Trump administration's policy agenda.

William Brangham has a preview of what's to come.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: That's right, Geoff.# Cases are still being added to the docket,## as the justices said today they will hear a# challenge to a Hawaii law that regulates where## people can carry guns.

The High Court is also# set to hear a case involving the president's## tariff policies and will rule on major issues# like election maps, LGBTQ rights and abortion.

Joining us to break it all down is "News Hour"# Supreme Court analyst and SCOTUSblog co-founder## Amy Howe and Steve Vladeck, constitutional# law professor at Georgetown University.

So nice to see you both.

Thanks for being here.

Steve, officially, the term starts# Monday, but it has been a very,## very busy summer.

The justices have# been issuing rulings on the shadow## docket.

Remind us what they have# done vis-a-vis this administration.

STEVE VLADECK, Georgetown University# Law Center: Gosh, how long do we have?

I mean, just about# two hours ago, as we're sitting he.. the court handed down the latest, the# 23rd consecutive ruling for President## Trump granting emergency relief, this# one clearing the way for Secretary## Noem to cancel something called temporary# protected status for Venezuelan migrants.

We have seen rulings clearing the way for the# elimination of transgender service members,## clearing the way for the firing of# all kinds of senior federal officers,## Department of Education employees, for# the pocket rescissions of $4 billion## of foreign aid funding.

I mean,# it's really a stunning list... WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Right.

STEVE VLADECK: ... of acti.. unexplained orders, has let the# Trump administration to continue,## and it's carried all the way up to this afternoon.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And, starting on# Monday, when the term actually begins,## there will be some other major cases that they're# ruling on with regards to the administration,## the president's tariff policies, whether he# can fire Lisa Cook from the Federal Reserve.

What is at stake here for this administration?

AMY HOWE: These are both really core parts# of the president's agenda.

The language in## some of the briefs filed by John Sauer, who's# the solicitor general and the president's top## lawyer at the Supreme Court, in the tariffs case# is -- is in some ways really kind of remarkable.

There's language, and I'm# not quoting verbatim here,## but along the lines of how the tariffs# and the negotiations that follow as a## result of the tariffs have pulled the American# economy back from the precipice.

And so it's## really -- this is an issue that is really# important to the president and his agenda.

And then, in the case of Lisa Cook, and this is# the member of the Fed's Board of Governors, Trump## has tried to fire her, he says for cause, which# he says was -- relates to mortgage fraud that she## allegedly committed before becoming a governor.# She's pushed back against those allegations.

He## has long criticized the Fed since he's been in# office for failing to reduce interest rates, but## then also it goes to the broader power to be able# to fire the members of these independent agencies.

He's also tried -- had more success in firing# Rebecca Slaughter, who's one of the members## of the Federal Trade Commission, and the# Supreme Court will hear her case as well.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Steve, as you said,# the president had racked up quite a few## successes before the court.

Coming into# this term, do you have a sense -- maybe## it's self-evident in what you were describing# before -- as to what kind of check the court## is willing to put on a president who seems# to really want to flex his executive muscle?

STEVE VLADECK: I mean,# William, this is the question.

And I think, if you look at the# pattern of cases going back to Apri.. the only real example we have of# this court pushing back against## the Trump administration was that Alien# Enemies Act case from Texas in April.

What was different about that case?# I think the only real difference was,## there, it wasn't that President Trump was defying# a lower court.

It wasn't that President Trump was## defying Congress.

It was that President Trump# was on the verge of defying the Supreme Court.## And so the pattern really seems to be that the# justices will zealously guard their authority,## even as they're not going to go out of their way# to protect lower courts who are working night and## day in these cases, to protect Congress'# prerogatives in the cases Amy mentioned.

I think the question is, how much# is that pattern going to continue## as these merits cases become more and# more a part of the justices' work?

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Amy, there's also a# continuing trend of the court weighing## in on LGBTQ cases.

And there's -- one# of the first cases they will hear next## week is -- deals with this a ban on# what's called conversion therapy.

Tell us what's at stake in that case.

AMY HOWE: So this is a case about Colorado's# ban, as you say, on conversion therapy,## which is therapy intended to change someone's# sexual orientation or gender identity.

And Colorado and I think more than 20# other states have similar laws, and... WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Saying that# you can't do that therapy.

AMY HOWE: You can't do this kind of therapy.

And Colorado says, we enacted this ban because# there is evidence that shows that such therapy## is ineffective and it's harmful.

It can lead# to depression and anxiety and even suicide.

And## Colorado says, when we are regulating conversion# therapy, we are regulating medical treatment.

The plaintiff in the case is a woman named# Kaley Chiles, who is a professional counselor## and also a practicing Christian.

And# she says what they're doing here is,## they're regulating my speech, because# all I do is talk therapy.

And so that's## this issue of what is speech and what is# conduct, but this is also the latest in a## series of cases involving religious# people and speech and LGBTQ people.

We had two cases earlier involving the man who# didn't want to make a cake for same-sex weddings,## the woman who didn't want to make a Web site# for same-sex marriages.

And that was -- they## felt that they were being compelled to# speak.

This is a woman who wants to speak,## and the state, she says, is# telling her that she can't.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Steve, it is Chief Justice# John Roberts' 20th anniversary on the court,## and he has had some competing inspirations for## how he wants to run that court.

How do# you see him handling this coming term?

STEVE VLADECK: Sure.

I mean,# I think it's a dominant role.

This is John Roberts' court, and that's# true not just in name.

It's true I think## behind the scenes as well.

You look# at the voting patterns in the most## important cases the courts decide# in, in the Trump-related cases,## he's very seldom in dissent.

And I think# that's especially true when the court splits## ideologically.

It's going to come down to where# the chief justice is, where Amy Coney Barrett is.

And that really is complicated,# because you have John Roberts,## who is a staunch defender of executive# power, who probably is OK with a lot of## the legal theories animating at least# some of President Trump's actions,## versus John Roberts the institutionalist, who# cares deeply about how the Supreme Court is## perceived, who wants the courts to still be# venerated in the years and decades to come.

I think this term is going to be very much# a referendum on him, and how he behaves,## I think, will be very much the answer# to where we are a year from now.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And, Amy, how do you# see him coming down on that, champion## of a vigorous executive or someone who doesn't# want his court to be seen as a partisan actor?

AMY HOWE: I think he will lean more# -- he was someone who worked in the## White House as a young lawyer and# worked in the Department of Justice.## I think he leans more toward executive# power.

There's always the conventional## wisdom that he is an institutionalist# and cares about the Supreme Court.

But I do think, when push comes to shove, so# to speak, he's more likely to be on the side## of executive power.

I think that this# court will generally continue to move## to the right.

I think that there may be cases# this term -- we have not talked, for example,## about one case that is not yet on the docket# officially, but almost certainly will be.

And## that's the challenge to the constitutionality of# the president's order on birthright citizenship.

And all of the courts# that have considered that the## order have overwhelmingly ruled that# it is unconstitutional so far.

So,## that seems like one in which perhaps the Trump# administration may not prevail or it may be close.

But, in general, I think that the court# will continue to move to the right.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Amy Howe, Steve# Vladeck, so good to see you both.

Thank you.

AMY HOWE: Thank you.

STEVE VLADECK: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: During this government# shutdown, President Trump is turning## his attention to funding earmarked# for projects in Democratic states.

To break down the implications and offer some# perspective, we're joined tonight by Brooks## and Capehart.

That's New York Times columnist# David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart of MSNBC.

It's always great to see you both.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Hey, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, Jonathan,.. Democrats are now backing this one.

Senator# Schumer, who was on this program back in March,## he said the country avoided disaster when# he voted to keep the government open.

Republicans are calling that out and saying# it's hypocritical.

In your view, why isn't it?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, one,# we're talking about a shutdown## caused by Republicans not wanting to# do something on health care.

I mean,## you can argue whether this is the time to do it.# Democrats have decided this is the time to do it,## especially since letters are going out next# month to consumers on the American -- the## Affordable Care Act exchanges that# their premiums are going to go up.

And then they're going to go up starting in# the new year.

And so Democrats are saying,## well, we have got to do something to help the# American people.

And Republicans basically## say no.

And -- I'm sorry.

At the same time# that they're saying no, they're also saying,## just trust us.

Let's just reopen the# government and then we will talk about this.

The problem with that is, one, Democrats don't# trust them, nor should they.

Two, there are so## many other things that Republicans have to --# that Congress has to get done in the seven weeks## before the end of the year, the NDAA, which is# a must pass defense bill, appropriations bills.

Punchbowl reported this morning that there# have been no talks between Democrats and## Republicans about the appropriations# bills that will be needed to fund the## government once they get past this.

And# so you think that Republicans -- that## Democrats should trust Republicans that# they're going to take care of it later?

No.

And so I think that we can argue# whether this is a good time to do this## and whether Democrats should do it.# I argue Democrats absolutely should## do it because they're doing# it for all the right reasons.

GEOFF BENNETT: And one of those reasons Democrats# say is about extending Obamacare subsidies,## with premiums set to skyrocket.# Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia,## he shared this example on social media.

A Georgian earning $65,000 a year# would see premiums jump from about## $300 a month to over $950 a month.

And, David, shouldn't the# party that controls the House,## the Senate and the White House do more# to end a shutdown than just dig in?

DAVID BROOKS: No.

I hate the fact that# we're here.

So here's what happened.

In 2020, the Democrats win an election and they# have power.

And so, in 2021, they passed a bill## which further increased the health insurance# subsidies as part of Obamacare.

And when they## did it, they passed it to sunset in 2025.

In 2024,# the Republicans win an election.

And guess what?## They passed legislation that go with their policy# priorities and they let the subsidies sunset.

And so what do you do if you're in# a democracy?

You go to the voters if## you're a Democrat and you say, their policy# is terrible.

What Senator Warnock just said,## their policy is terrible.

Next time, why don't# you vote for us?

That's how a democracy functions.

But apparently we don't live in a# functioning democracy anymore.

Now,## if we don't like the policy that the majority# party passes, we shut down the government.

And## I'm not blaming Democrats solely.

But I just think# this pattern is so terrible for our democracy,## is so terrible, what we just heard from the# traffic controllers, and every organization.

You can imagine if your own organization# suddenly lost all funding every once in a while.## And what it does is it further erodes the# norms that really control our democracy so## we don't -- we're not -- we can have a boxing# match in politics.

Politics ain't beanbag.

But## we don't bring a knife.

We don't bring a gun.# And we don't bring AK-47, whatever it would be.

And that's what our politics is descending# into.

And it's very bad for democracy.

GEOFF BENNETT: Elections have consequences.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They do have consequences,## but descending into?

We're there.# I mean, that.. I mean, you could -- if you want to go back# in history, let's talk about eroding norms.## Senator Mitch McConnell, when he was majority# leader, stole a Supreme Court seat and said## it should be up to the American people to decide# the next president, and that person gets to pick## the Supreme Court justice, successfully# kept it from then-Judge Merrick Garland.

But then, when the shoe was on the other foot# and President Trump was in the White House,## what did he do?

Ram threw Justice# Amy Coney Barrett a week before## the election.

So we're already deep# into this rutted place that we're in.

DAVID BROOKS: Wait two months.

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: Is there an.. care?

Because that helped them flip, what was# it, 40 seats back in 2018 when the Republicans## tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Does# that resonate the same way in the shutdown?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, I think it will resonate,# maybe not in the short term, but I think,## politically speaking, just in crass political# terms, that when those letters go out next month,## and then when the premium skyrockets, so when# people get those bills starting in January,## folks will forget about the shutdown,# assuming the government has been reopened.

But they will remember, oh, wait,# Democrats were hammering away at this,## they were complaining about this# during that time.

And I think, again,## in crass political terms, this could# inure to Democrats' benefit, could.

GEOFF BENNETT: If you were# advising the White House,## the David Brooks consultancy,# what would you tell them to do?

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: How should they handle this?

DAVID BROOKS: I would tell them al.. DAVID BROOKS: But I put myself in their# shoes, not what David Brooks want.. as important as that is, but what MAGA wants.

And so they're part of a conservative# movement that for the last 50 years has## said government is too big, the left# has too much control.

And they have## wanted to defund the left since Ronald# Reagan.

And they haven't really done it.

Donald Trump comes in terms two and starts to# do it under DOGE.

That sort of calms down after## Elon Musk leaves town and all the tech bros go# back to Silicon Valley.

But now Russell Vought,## the budget director, is going to restart the# engines.

And he's going to restart them in## a way that we have never seen before.

He's# been waiting his whole life at this moment.

And I do not think that giving him the# keys to the kingdom is a smart idea.

But## if you're MAGA and you have been trying to# pursue a 40-year project to defund the left,## you're going to take advantage of this moment.# And so a lot of people are going to lose their## jobs who are in -- and what MAGA gets right# is that the civil service is somewhat left.

But what they get wrong is, they're not very left.# Most of them are good, hardworking, honest people## who just want to do their job.

And Russell# Vought is about to take a chain saw to them.

GEOFF BENNETT: What about# that, Jonathan, the president,## Russ Vought seeing opportunity in this moment?

I think President Trump used the phrase# unprecedented opportunity to dismantle## government, to defund the left, as David says.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: They're already# doing it.

They have been doing it.## They have already promised to,# what, fire 140,000 workers.

And so they're taking advantage of# a crisis.

Anyone who thinks that## the administration from the president to# Russell Vought, that they will have some## sort of pang of conscience and keep federal# workers where they are fooling themselves.

It's right there in Project 2025, the 900-page# document that then-candidate Trump tried to## disavow and said, I have nothing to do with it,# and then this week, if not yesterday, sends out## a TRUTH Social posts saying, Russell Vought# is going to do this, he of Project 2025 fame.

Anyone who has watched -- who has read# Project 2025 is not surprised by anything## that has happened since January 20.# It's right there in black and white.

GEOFF BENNETT: One of the most striking moments# of the weekend of President Trump's second term## so far was this unprecedented gathering of# top military brass.

You had the president,## the defense secretary gathered in Virginia.

Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, said# the goal was to restore the warrior ethos.## The president spoke for more than an hour.# Here's some of what the -- both of them said.

PETE HEGSETH, U.S.

Defense Secretary: The# era of politically correct, overly sensitive,## don't hurt anyone's feelings leadership# ends right now.

No more identity months,## DEI offices, dudes in dresses.

No# more climate change worship.

It's## tiring to look out at combat formations or# really any formation and see fat troops.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United# States: Well, America is under invasion## from within.

We're under invasion from# within.

We were not respected with Biden.## They looked at him falling downstairs every# day.

Every day, the guy's falling downstairs.## We should use some of these dangerous# cities as training grounds for our military.

GEOFF BENNETT: What lessons should we# draw from that?

Are there any parallels## to the way the president, the defense# secretary are seeking to use the military?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, it's all show business.

These two guys are TV personalities, not# that there's anything wrong with that.## But they're using the troops as# show business.

And what do they## care about when they think about the# Department of Defense or whatever we're## calling it these days?

They think about# dudes in dresses, DEI and fat troops.

China is not thinking about that stuff.

They# are outdeploying us in submarines.

They're## outdeploying us in military technology.

They have# got more troops.

They have got more spending.

And## they are a world threat.

And if something terrible# happens in the last two years, next two years,## people are going to look at this rally and say,# what the hell were those guys talking about?

And, to me, it's just the# incredible shallowness and## triviality of that kind of showbiz performance.

GEOFF BENNETT: Is this the moment that accelerates## the erosion of the longstanding# norm of an apolitical military?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I don't know if it's# the moment, simply because I think maybe## the president wanted to jump in on this# meeting because he's used to going to## the military academies, where the troops# are a little less trained in how they're## supposed to act and respond to political# speeches and particularly to the president.

And I seem to remember, I think it was the Naval# Academy, where you had the cadets behind him## hooting and hollering and cheering and applauding# and laughing.

But the folks in that room at the## Pentagon were not cadets.

They were generals# and admirals with decades' worth of experience.

And they know that their job is to be apolitical,# no matter who the president is.

And the series of## one-liners that they both threw out there thinking# they were going to get applause, and they didn't,## certainly unsettled the president,# probably unsettled the defense secretary.

But it didn't unsettle me,## because it showed -- it told me that# the senior leadership of the military,## the folks in uniform still hold true to their# training and what their role is in our democracy.

And I don't want to let one of the comments# that was said in that SOT mash of the president## where he said he's -- we're going to use# the American cities as training grounds,## the most dangerous thing I have heard among# many things come out of the president's mouth,## that he's telling those admirals and# generals that they should have their troops,## who are trained to fight wars and kill other# people in other countries on battlegrounds,## that they should turn their# guns on American citizens.

It's appalling, and I wish we had a Congress# that worked that would say, you know what,## we need to bring some people in# and have some hearings on this,## because this is unacceptable.

It's# undemocratic.

It's un-American.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I was# going to raise that point,## the incitement to violence against# Americans from the.. DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I happen to live right# where the National Guardsmen are walking## around every day.

And I, frankly, don't# mind them.

They're nice.

They look bored.

But Jonathan is right on the overall# message.

There's a reason military## people are not police people.

And police are# making a mistake of trying to be too military,## frankly.

And so to cross that line, where you have# people who are actually trained to shoot howitzers## walking around Park Avenue or Grant Park in# Chicago, it's just -- it's crossing a line.

GEOFF BENNETT: David Brooks, Jonathan# Capehart, have a good weekend.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Geoff.

You too.

GEOFF BENNETT:## As the Great Salt Lake in Utah continues to dry# up, the arts community there has mobilized to## lay bare the major ecological, economic# and health stakes if the decline continues.

Some have called this an environmental# nuclear bomb of toxic dust, harming## people and industries that rely on the# lake.

A public arts project called Wake## the Great Salt Lake aims to educate and# inspire residents and visitors alike.

Our senior arts correspondent, Jeffrey Brown, took# a look for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

BONNIE BAXTER, Director, Great# Salt Lake Institute: So that's## Antelope Island out ther.. JEFFREY BROWN: Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

A summer day at the Great .. long an idyllic place to observe wildlife,# attracting locals and visitors from all## over.

But in recent years, the largest saltwater# lake in the Western Hemisphere has been ailing.

BONNIE BAXTER: We're on# the precipice.

You're very,## very close to an ecosystem that is collapsing.

JEFFREY BROWN: Biologist Bonnie Baxter is# director of the Great Salt Lake Institute## at Westminster University in Salt Lake# City.

She says excessive water diversion## for agriculture and cities and a long-term# megadrought exacerbated by climate change and## reduced precipitation have created a crisis, in# which public health is being threatened by toxic## dust from the flat dry lake bed, or playa,# containing arsenic and other heavy meddles.

BONNIE BAXTER: We're next# to a metropolitan center,## and the public health dangers of breathing# this playa dust is terrible.

So as we expose## these shorelines, the dust can become# airborne and really impact the air quality.

JEFFREY BROWN: And the# ecosystem hangs in the balance.

BONNIE BAXTER: We have worked to balance the# salinity to help the life in the lake that## feeds all of the birds survive.

Ten million birds# depend on this ecosystem.

It's so important that## it's probably the most important body# of water on the whole Pacific Flyway.

JEFFREY BROWN: Enter the Wake the Great# Salt Lake public art challenge, a project## to raise public awareness and perhaps mobilize a# response through art placed throughout the city;## 125 applications were culled to 12# multidisciplinary projects, as well as## events and workshops, with scientists including# Baxter consulting with artists along the way.

Felicia Baca is executive director# of the Salt Lake City Arts Council,## part government agency, part nonprofit.

FELICIA BACA, Executive Director, Salt# Lake City Arts Council: We believe that## the arts are a universal language and that can# provide access and.. It's a language that is approachable for many# residents where data and science may not be.## And while the project is founded# in data and science and education,## we really think that arts# create an emotional connection.

And they're a place for, like, unity# and coming together and gathering.## And those are the kind of conditions in# which you build and engage citizenry.

JEFFREY BROWN: That engagement included dance... MAN: The novelty, the# excitement of a new environment.

JEFFREY BROWN: ... a museum# exhibit, Vanishing Waters,## Rising Voices, an installation, By a# Thread, inside the Utah State Capitol,## and a pop-up water school structure# for all to see, learn, and engage with.

TREVOR DAHL, Muralist: Let's do# that, but I want to like draw it in.

JEFFREY BROWN: Building an engaged# citizenry is just what muralist Trevor## Dahl was after when he launched his art# activation after consulting scientists## and Native American community leaders# about the delicate balance of the lake.

TREVOR DAHL: Some depictions of# these creatures that are lovable.

And## so whether you get the message about the# mural or anything, you can kind of say,## like, oh, those brine shrimp are so cute,# or, like, just a way to anthropomorphize## the lake a little bit.

We start to care# about it.

We start to demand that our## representatives care about it.

They start to# hold industry accountable.

And that's the idea.

JEFFREY BROWN: I mean, a mural in a small# parking lot by itself doesn't do anything.

TREVOR DAHL: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: But it's th.. TREVOR DAHL: Right.

It's part of a wave.

And we're# all, as artists, doing our best to help the ca.. JEFFREY BROWN: Across town at Spy Hop,# an after-school youth media art center,## students designed and printed digital zines,## handmade and self-published, a way to reach# and teach others about the ongoing crisis.

Recent high school grads Josie Callahan# and Eddie Memmott spoke of the personal## stakes for themselves and for a lake# that's a commercial source of magnesium,## lithium, and other mineral compounds.

EDDIE MEMMOTT, Student: It affects our food.# It affects our phones.

It affects our air.

It## affects our water.

And it affects our bills.

When# I learn about things and start caring about them,## the biggest factor is usually how# it affects me and the people I love.

So I thought talking about how this does# matter and it will affect you and it## will change your life, you should# care, felt very important to me.

JOSIE CALLAHAN, Student: My own personal# experience of, like, sort of climate and## environmental anxiety, I was like I need to have# something that can be sort of convenient, right?

JEFFREY BROWN: Very specific.

What can one do?

JOSIE CALLAHAN: What can we do,# right.

Not everyone is aware of## the people who are kind of taking the# most advantage of our water usage.

JEFFREY BROWN: An installation titled Hopeline# was reaching the public in perhaps the most## interactive way of any work in the project# through a pop-up old phone booth in which## passersby could hear the sounds of the lake's# birds and waves and stories left by others.

WOMAN: You know, you're the last yard of the# ocean here.

And since I grew up by the ocean,## it feels like a glimpse of# home every time I see you.

JEFFREY BROWN: While also leaving their# own stories.

Three artists behind Hopeline,## friends who grew up together in Salt Lake City,# say the problem, including regular dust storms,## is so acute they're considering leaving# their hometown, a place they love.

NICK CARPENTER, Artist: I think The New York Times# put it as like an environmental nuclear bomb.

JEFFREY BROWN: But that's how you feel.

NICK CARPENTER: At times.

And I think you're# reminded of it when you do see these dust## storms coming into town that maybe it's not# worth potentially buying real estate here.

JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

You mean like you# might have to leave at some point?

HAN CALDER, Artist: Definitely.

JEFFREY BROWN: Still, for this project,## they decided to offer a sense of hope.

And that's what they heard from others.

HAN CALDER: Well, I think a lot# of people will bring love into it,## right?

And maybe that has hope in it.

If# you love something, there's hope for it,## right?

So a lot of people will just say like,# I love you, Great Salt Lake.

And that has## been really endearing to me just to hear so# many people say I love you, Great Salt Lake.

JEFFREY BROWN: What does it all add up to?# Scientist Bonnie Baxter: continues to push## for public policy changes.

But she's also a firm# believer that art and artists have a role to play.

BONNIE BAXTER: Scientists can communicate# to the public, but maybe we don't get the## attention of everybody, right?

And so# to have artists at the table to help## express this crisis in a more visceral# way, people wake up and they listen.

JEFFREY BROWN: For the "PBS News Hour," I'm# Jeffrey Brown at the Great Salt Lake in Utah.

GEOFF BENNETT: Apples, oranges and bananas# are sold in abundance in supermarkets across## the country, but some say the most American# fruit is one you will likely never see in## the produce department, and it's one you# have probably never heard of, the pawpaw.

Our Deema Zein bits into the long# history of this forgotten fruit.

DEEMA ZEIN: In Southeast Ohio, a# 27-year tradition has taken root,## an annual celebration of a little-known# fruit with a cult following.

CHRIS CHMIEL, Founder, Ohio Pawpaw Festival:# Have you had a pawpaw?

Here in Appalachia,## the pawpaw is sort of like, I'd say one of the## stars of the native plants that# we have.

There's a seed in there.

DEEMA ZEIN: Chris Chmiel is the# founder of the Ohio Pawpaw Festival,## where this star is center stage in# events like the pawpaw cook-off.

MAN: I'm kind of struggling with# picking up on notes of pawpaw.

DEEMA ZEIN: And a range of pawpaw-inspired swag## and refreshments from pawpaw T-shirts# and pottery to pawpaw beer and even... WOMAN: A pawpaw iced matcha latte with oat milk.

DEEMA ZEIN: For Chmiel, the festival is meant## in part to spread the word about# this lesser known native fruit.

CHRIS CHMIEL: When somebody gets# a chance to eat a pawpaw at the## right time and they have that initial# like, whoa, it's just a good hook.

DEEMA ZEIN: That instant surprise comes from# an unexpected taste that many find hard to peg.

WOMAN: I would describe the taste# of a pawpaw kind of like a mango.

WOMAN: Maybe with a little# bit of papaya or stone fruit.

MAN: Like fresh grapes off of a vine.

MAN: Nature's own banana mango smoothie.

CHRIS CHMIEL: I describe the pawpaw flavors as## a tropical custard because there's# a lot of diversity in the flavors,## and that has to do with genetics, but# also ripeness and where they're grown.

DEEMA ZEIN: This tropical tasting fruit grows# wild across a vast stretch of the Eastern United## States from the Panhandle of Florida and up into# Michigan.

Eaten and celebrated by Native American## tribes, there's evidence that indigenous people# are responsible for the abundance of pawpaw today.

ANDREW MOORE, Author, "Pawpaw: In Search of# America's Forgotten Fruit": There's thought## that people in the Ohio .. good-tasting pawpaw for thousands of# years and perhaps that is the reason## why some of the best pawpaws came from the# Ohio River Valley and parts of the Midwest.

DEEMA ZEIN: Andrew Moore is the author of "Pawpaw:# In Search of America's Forgotten Fruit."

He says## the pawpaw was also prized by iconic early# Americans.

It helped sustain Lewis and Clark## on their journey West, and George Washington# grew the pawpaw on his Mount Vernon estate.

ANDREW MOORE: One could make the argument# that the pawpaw is the most American fruit.## It's been here for millions of years.# It's indigenous to this place.

People## have been naming places after the pawpaw and# writing songs and poems about the pawpaw.

This is where I had my very first pawpaw ever.

DEEMA ZEIN: Moore got his first taste of this# fringe fruit at the Ohio Pawpaw Festival 15## years ago.

Before then, he'd never heard# of it, like most Americans these days.

ANDREW MOORE: Generations ago, we could go out# into the woods and our parents knew where the## pawpaw patches were, our grandparents knew# where the pawpaw patches were.

But at some## point in the 20th century, we stopped going# to the woods for our food.

We started getting## most of our food from supermarkets and# the food system became very industrial.

DEEMA ZEIN: That transition away from foraging# our food led to the downfall of the pawpaw,## which has a short shelf life and is# more fragile compared to other fruits.

ANDREW MOORE: But I don't think those# are reasons to say that the pawpaw can## never be brought to the people.

We bring all# kinds of fragile, short-shelf-life fruits to## markets.

And one of the things I have begun to# think about with the pawpaw is that it's just## something we haven't gotten around to doing yet# in terms of incorporating into our food system.

Oh, yes.

DEEMA ZEIN: Moore, who grows pawpaws and# sells them to his lo.. says that research, currently under way# at schools like Kentucky State University,## could help develop a breed of# pawpaw suitable for market shelves.

But, for now, part of the pawpaw's charm is# that you can't find it in most grocery stores.

ANDREW MOORE: You still have to# go to the land to get this fruit,## or you have to have a connection to community,# to other people around you to find this fruit.## It is nice that there is this fruit that can still# bring people closer to each other and to the land.

DEEMA ZEIN: In the meantime, festivals like# this have popped up around the country.

MAN: Of what avail are school taxes if the young# people are not taught the glories of the pawpaw?

DEEMA ZEIN: Making sure this# beloved American fruit lives on.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Deema Zein.

GEOFF BENNETT: And there is more online,## including more on what people say pawpaws# taste like.

That's on our .. And be sure to watch "Washington Week With The# Atlantic" tonight here on PBS.

Jeffrey Goldberg## and his panel explore Republicans and Democrats'# political strategies in the current funding fight.

And watch "PBS News Weekend" tomorrow for a look## at the Trump administration's# plans to address long COVID.

And that is the "News Hour" for tonight# and this week.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour," thanks## for spending part of your evening# with us, and have a great weekend.